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FoF posted:"Teenagers Have Poor Judgement" stop using that joke wrong. I dunno who this is directed at, but you're wrong (the Enslaver was def. a teenager) and you somehow failed to explain that 'Judgement' is the name of the Avatar's doomsday module, which is the only reason the station name was ever remotely amusing. If you're going to  , at least do it properly. Ironically, it was actually a pretty good Judgement, and I think it still holds the record for most ships killed in a single doomsday. Somewhere around 250-300 total kills? I lost something to it, probably a Rifter or Stabber; I'd look it up, but I see the GSF killboard is down yet again. CFox posted:I was an FC during that whole time period. It's amazing looking back that Goonfleet survived and even thrived through all that. Loosing an entire fleet jumping into a system just because a frigate opened a cyno was the worst goddamn thing. Cyno doomsdays were literally the worst mechanic in the game. That multiple people in CCP thought that would be a totally-OK thing is mind boggling. There's still plenty of balance work to be done in the game, but nothing can ever hold a candle to early titan mechanics, not even blobs of tracking titans and drone-using supercarriers. My personal favorite was the 2-3 titan region-gate camp, where BoB would set titans up 200km from the gate, with a T2 sniping battleship fleet 200km off just outside of their own doomsday range. Decloak all at once and try to kill the bubbles or burn out, and you die to a doomsday. Decloak piecemeal, and you die to battleship snipers. The number of fleets lost to those camps is pretty loving staggering, and I don't know why we even kept trying, because they were literally unbreakable.
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Feb 26, 2014 20:46
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mikey posted:There's still plenty of balance work to be done in the game, but nothing can ever hold a candle to early titan mechanics, not even blobs of tracking titans and drone-using supercarriers. My personal favorite was the 2-3 titan region-gate camp, where BoB would set titans up 200km from the gate, with a T2 sniping battleship fleet 200km off just outside of their own doomsday range. Decloak all at once and try to kill the bubbles or burn out, and you die to a doomsday. Decloak piecemeal, and you die to battleship snipers. The number of fleets lost to those camps is pretty loving staggering, and I don't know why we even kept trying, because they were literally unbreakable. Were DDs a hard 250 km limit or were grid expansion DDs a thing?
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Feb 26, 2014 20:51
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snooman posted:Were DDs a hard 250 km limit or were grid expansion DDs a thing? They were essentially a 250km, 70,000 damage smartbomb. They didn't hit things off-grid, but a normal gate grid is well over 400km (any grid-fu notwithstanding). You could fit battleships to tank a specific racial doomsday while retaining some effectiveness (120-130km sniping), but omni-DD tanking or double-DD tanking basically made the ship incapable as a sniper, and you'd need good warpins (in a time before effective probing) and 50% more battleships to be effective in a sniping fight, and that's BEFORE they get hit by 1-2 DDs. As you can imagine, trying to invade Paragon Soul/Period Basis against this was a complete clusterfuck.
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Feb 26, 2014 20:56
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Did some hot-dropping last night, that was a lot of fun. Lost my first 10 million frig in about 5 minutes because I have no idea what bombs look like.
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Feb 26, 2014 21:03
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Lowkin posted:Did some hot-dropping last night, that was a lot of fun. They look like "bomb" on your overview, and if you see one within 30KM of you, you'd better already be warping out. edit: what I'm saying is, if you're looking for it on your screen "in space" you're wasting valuable fleeing time.
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Feb 26, 2014 21:05
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mikey posted:They were essentially a 250km, 70,000 damage smartbomb. They didn't hit things off-grid, but a normal gate grid is well over 400km (any grid-fu notwithstanding). Jesus christ, I still remember the double plated fitted Battleships. Aligning is such a bitch.
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Feb 26, 2014 21:07
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That was before the speed nerf/agility buff too, and IIRC most of the double-DD tanked battleships had no MWD fitted, so it would take 15+ seconds to align.
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Feb 26, 2014 21:09
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mrg220t posted:Jesus christ, I still remember the double plated fitted Battleships. Aligning is such a bitch. And no logi, because logi can't tank a DD. If you're lucky there might be some carrier pitcrew hanging out at the edge of POS shields.
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Feb 26, 2014 21:10
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Angela Christine posted:And no logi, because logi can't tank a DD. If you're lucky there might be some carrier pitcrew hanging out at the edge of POS shields. Off grid logi was a thing back then also.
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Feb 26, 2014 21:20
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mrg220t posted:Jesus christ, I still remember the double plated fitted Battleships. Aligning is such a bitch. If you don't use up all your low slots with 1600mm plates, you aren't a real man. 
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Feb 26, 2014 21:22
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As someone new to the game, reading what Titans could pull off in the Manifesto was pretty staggering. I knew remote AoE doomsdays were a thing but then they mentioned stuff like being able to get back to jump cap in ~10 seconds with no DD timer and it all just turned into a bad joke.
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Feb 26, 2014 21:45
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mikey posted:That was before the speed nerf/agility buff too, and IIRC most of the double-DD tanked battleships had no MWD fitted, so it would take 15+ seconds to align. Don't forget that the "Align" button didn't exist until 2008(?). Aligning back in the day meant double clicking as close as possible to the object/location in space and pray. No fleet warp either, so you gotta warp your own rear end and watch as half of the fleet slightly readjust itself before zooming off because they didn't double click close enough 
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Feb 26, 2014 22:05
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Voyager I posted:As someone new to the game, reading what Titans could pull off in the Manifesto was pretty staggering. I knew remote AoE doomsdays were a thing but then they mentioned stuff like being able to get back to jump cap in ~10 seconds with no DD timer and it all just turned into a bad joke. The crazy cap recharge can still happen but since using a DDD forces you to not cloak or jump its pretty much a moot point. One of the big points Bane listed still exists and that is the Rags weird bonus to signature radius. That is a very delicate stat and for that huge of a bonus to still exist is weird.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:06
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Rag boosts for ceptor fleets. Guys I need this.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:13
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uwaeve posted:The effectiveness of any EWAR beyond optimal is a reduced per-cycle chance to hit, using a 0.5^(x^2) curve similar to the turret chance-to-hit equation. Damps, painters, and tracking disruptors have a per-cycle chance to hit of 1 out to optimal, 0.5 at optimal + falloff, and around 0.06 at optimal + 2 falloffs. None of these effects are reduced beyond optimal, they either apply fully or not at all, depending on whether the module cycle hits or misses. I'd like to see the maths if it isn't a bother. I'm essentially just trying to wrap my head around why I see certain fits proposed, and how certain things work or do not work, so I'll hopefully at least be able to make an educated guess at some point what might be a good fit or what is most definitely and objectively terrible! 
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Feb 26, 2014 22:27
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Lowkin posted:Did some hot-dropping last night, that was a lot of fun. Congratulations on moving to the more violent side of eve.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:27
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Socialism posted:Don't forget that the "Align" button didn't exist until 2008(?). Aligning back in the day meant double clicking as close as possible to the object/location in space and pray. No fleet warp either, so you gotta warp your own rear end and watch as half of the fleet slightly readjust itself before zooming off because they didn't double click close enough Oh man, I forgot about that. I was dorking around with a fleet earlier in the week and was thinking 'This whole thing is simple, why did we used to have so much trouble aligning to a target and making the warp?' I figured we were all kind of terrible in the beginning, but it didn't make sense even then. Remembering that we had to actually manually align and try to coordinate warp by command makes those memories of FCs shouting and screaming and people flailing around a lot more understandable.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:28
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Hollow Talk posted:I'd like to see the maths if it isn't a bother. I'm essentially just trying to wrap my head around why I see certain fits proposed, and how certain things work or do not work, so I'll hopefully at least be able to make an educated guess at some point what might be a good fit or what is most definitely and objectively terrible! And maybe some less math-heavy discussion on what makes and breaks fits/how to fit for certain jobs. I'm only barely out of the 'blindly follow fitting guide' phase where I can sort of modify fits I copy for personal use/preference/skills. Making a fit from scratch though? HAH! I don't even know the difference between what I should fit with a booster/repper and what I should be buffer tanking. Let alone how to fit ECM ships and other things where you have to sacrifice tank to do your job.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:34
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Voyager I posted:As someone new to the game, reading what Titans could pull off in the Manifesto was pretty staggering. I knew remote AoE doomsdays were a thing but then they mentioned stuff like being able to get back to jump cap in ~10 seconds with no DD timer and it all just turned into a bad joke. It's no exaggeration that people quit the game in droves over this mechanic. Individuals quit, corporations left alliances involved in the war because often there was just no point. My experience at that time as a blue was that I'd belt rat up a sniper Megathron, which would take kid-me about a week, then I'd go fly against the hated enemy because my alliance leader hurfed about it. The fleet would arrive at the target, a cyno would go up, and that would be my PvP experience for the week.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:37
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Red Crown posted:It's no exaggeration that people quit the game in droves over this mechanic. Individuals quit, corporations left alliances involved in the war because often there was just no point. My experience at that time as a blue was that I'd belt rat up a sniper Megathron, which would take kid-me about a week, then I'd go fly against the hated enemy because my alliance leader hurfed about it. The fleet would arrive at the target, a cyno would go up, and that would be my PvP experience for the week. Best part is when it's laggy and you don't even get to see the doomsday going off.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:42
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Red Crown posted:I'd belt rat up a sniper Megathron, which would take kid-me about a week And it's not just kid-you that it would take a week, it was almost everyone. There were really only 3 sources of income at a personal level (and SRP barely existed). You could belt rat (~15-20m/hr), you could run plexes (they were all static and usually camped 23/7 by the elite clique of whoever owned the space), or you could run lvl 4 missions (~10-20m/hr). A megathron would cost about 100m for the hull, plus up to 7m each for guns depending on what type you needed (all the t2 stuff was only made through a handful of BPO owners, so cost quite a bit more). Then the mega that took you ~10h to get isk for would get DDed in one shot and you'd go home and start again.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:43
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JwintooX posted:All I'm gunna see after the pirate frigs changes ...... Worms and curior's everywhere in FW :-/ Please stay in faction warfare forever.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:47
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Hearing all these stories about the dark old days makes me wonder how this game ever survived to this point. If someone suggested EVE circa 2006 today the whole project would be strangled in the crib (and rightly so). I'm suddenly less annoyed about drone assist and null space being mostly garbage to live in.
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Feb 26, 2014 22:58
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I have a char with Gunnery V and Small Hybrid Turret V What frigate would you suggest to go into lowsec and shoot people?
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Feb 26, 2014 23:08
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i do cocaine posted:Congratulations on moving to the more violent side of eve. Jita 4-4 is vastly more violent than that. At the end that was just ships exploding.
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Feb 26, 2014 23:10
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As a relatively new player with little experience, the amounts of acronyms and abbreviations in this game are daunting as gently caress.
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Feb 26, 2014 23:11
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Stick Insect posted:I have a char with Gunnery V and Small Hybrid Turret V If you have decent armor skills, dual-rep incursus. If you are of the shield type, try a Merlin. I'm supposing you want to stick to non faction T1. If you can/want to fly faction, a rails fit Federation Navy Comet is a nice choice. Beware Incursus and Merlin are brawlers so you don't want to fght against a kiter (Imperial Navy Slicers will eat you alive, and condors will tear you apart slowly and painfully).
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Feb 26, 2014 23:16
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ijyt posted:As a relatively new player with little experience, the amounts of acronyms and abbreviations in this game are daunting as gently caress. You probably know the site already, but I found one or two good things there, though you do have to scroll through quite a number of superfluous information: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Glossary
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Feb 26, 2014 23:18
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Booley posted:And it's not just kid-you that it would take a week, it was almost everyone. There were really only 3 sources of income at a personal level (and SRP barely existed). You could belt rat (~15-20m/hr), you could run plexes (they were all static and usually camped 23/7 by the elite clique of whoever owned the space), or you could run lvl 4 missions (~10-20m/hr). A megathron would cost about 100m for the hull, plus up to 7m each for guns depending on what type you needed (all the t2 stuff was only made through a handful of BPO owners, so cost quite a bit more). At the time, there was literally no SRP outside of BoB's T2 sniper reimbursement. Goonswarm didn't have reimbursement until later in the war, and it was minimal at best. I would say your stated income amount is pretty ideal too; I spent most of my ratting time alone in an -0.8 truesec system, and usually would end up trimming mediocre spawns for 2 hours to the tune of ~10-12m/hr until a few good ones finally showed up (whereupon they immediately despawn after being chained twice). It's also no exaggeration that 95% of the time, you wouldn't even get to see that week's worth of income being instantly annihilated. You would jump in, not load grid for 2-5 minutes, then load into your pod or whichever station you had your clone set to. I went through this once before realizing there was no point whatsoever, that we could never win this way, and that I could find far better ways to kill stuff and inflict damage, like slaughtering renters. darth cookie posted:Hearing all these stories about the dark old days makes me wonder how this game ever survived to this point. If someone suggested EVE circa 2006 today the whole project would be strangled in the crib (and rightly so). In my day, we had to warp uphill both ways to the fleet battle through 5 minutes of lag! But seriously, it was pretty bad. Nullsec had a really terrible player retention rate then, and it's no wonder that in the last 5 years the largest coalitions have gone from 5000 members to 50,000 members.
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Feb 26, 2014 23:27
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Hollow Talk posted:You probably know the site already, but I found one or two good things there, though you do have to scroll through quite a number of superfluous information: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Glossary Know the site, but somehow missed the glossary entirely, thanks!
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Feb 26, 2014 23:28
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Amberskin posted:If you have decent armor skills, dual-rep incursus. If you are of the shield type, try a Merlin. I'm supposing you want to stick to non faction T1. If you can/want to fly faction, a rails fit Federation Navy Comet is a nice choice. Thanks! I'm trying to keep things cheap for now, I'm expecting to lose every ship quickly. I have neither of the defensive skills since this character started as a ganker alt, but I'll go and play with some fits in EFT and see what works, and what to train for next. Eventually I want to get into a bomber, but which faction frig I train to V doesn't matter much does it? I understand the Amarr one is a bit difficult to fit, but I find that one the prettiest though. Just training to level III or IV for the sake of being able to fly the ship won't take long, however.
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Feb 26, 2014 23:31
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Voyager I posted:As someone new to the game, reading what Titans could pull off in the Manifesto was pretty staggering. I knew remote AoE doomsdays were a thing but then they mentioned stuff like being able to get back to jump cap in ~10 seconds with no DD timer and it all just turned into a bad joke. Throw in the fact how expensive battleships were back then, and how most of BoB would gloat in local like they accomplished something after might explain how disgruntled some of the long time folk are. I didn't even mind the DD's as sometimes you would live after and get to shoot stuff. The POS bowling, where when you could'nt even stage in a POS to get around the AOE DD, for fear of getting knocked out then DD's was worse.
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Feb 26, 2014 23:32
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The good old days were good, but they were honestly really loving bad as well. On the other hand, when BoB finally did go down it felt loving amazing, which it probably wouldn't have done without having to piss uphill into a tornado for two years, so there's that.
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Feb 26, 2014 23:42
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I knew DD's used to be AoE, but I never knew they could be fired through Cynos.... That...I can't even wrap my head around the thought of some dev thinking that was a good idea...  I do love all these stories about how EvE used to be. Makes all the crying I see in Scope every day seem soo drat childish compared to the way the game used to be. I'm incredibly bored running L4's .6 space with my RL buddies. Need to quit being such a lazy carebear and actually app...
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Feb 26, 2014 23:56
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Booley posted:And it's not just kid-you that it would take a week, it was almost everyone. There were really only 3 sources of income at a personal level (and SRP barely existed). You could belt rat (~15-20m/hr), you could run plexes (they were all static and usually camped 23/7 by the elite clique of whoever owned the space), or you could run lvl 4 missions (~10-20m/hr). A megathron would cost about 100m for the hull, plus up to 7m each for guns depending on what type you needed (all the t2 stuff was only made through a handful of BPO owners, so cost quite a bit more). uh i definitely made more than 10-15m an hour ratting in my moros with 250% drone dmg bonus
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Feb 26, 2014 23:57
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Vando posted:The good old days were good, but they were honestly really loving bad as well. On the other hand, when BoB finally did go down it felt loving amazing, which it probably wouldn't have done without having to piss uphill into a tornado for two years, so there's that. Small gang was also unquestionably more awesome before the combination of speed nerf and logistics buffs in late 2008. The individual skill ceiling was much higher, and combat tended to be higher-risk and lower-commitment-- it had to be, as everything was comparatively far more expensive. Even after invention in 2007, a rigged and T2-fitted Recon or HAC still cost around 250m, which is probably close to 800-900m now accounting for inflation. This made it really, really satisfying to outsmart some smug rear end in a top hat in a nanoed-out Vagabond and relieve him of the equivalent of a week or two of isk grinding. Snakes were so expensive that we actually used to have Vaga pilots eject in combat to warp their pods off when we had no bubble (usually when playing gate games, since dictors couldn't bubble+jump properly at that time). I think I ended up with at least 2 free Vagabonds from that.
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Feb 27, 2014 00:00
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Stick Insect posted:I have a char with Gunnery V and Small Hybrid Turret V I wouldn't. Instead, go to NPC null. You'll have much more fun.
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Feb 27, 2014 00:16
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mikey posted:Small gang was also unquestionably more awesome before the combination of speed nerf and logistics buffs in late 2008. The individual skill ceiling was much higher, and combat tended to be higher-risk and lower-commitment-- it had to be, as everything was comparatively far more expensive. Even after invention in 2007, a rigged and T2-fitted Recon or HAC still cost around 250m, which is probably close to 800-900m now accounting for inflation. I would bail right the gently caress out of a Vagabond if I thought doing so would somehow save my Snake clone.
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Feb 27, 2014 00:26
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To give new folks (and old) an idea of how vast the number and scope of things you can do in EVE is, click on this link: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Feb 27, 2014 00:28
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Noctis Horrendae posted:I wouldn't. Instead, go to NPC null. You'll have much more fun. Don't, go to FW lowsec, you'll actually find frigates to fight.
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Feb 27, 2014 00:29
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