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Ugh Im getting seasick just reading that. Last ship I was on chief mate had the cadet check everything and put his feet up in his lazy boy for his 16 hours of OT.
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Feb 23, 2014 02:59
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That's great when you have a great cadet, it's a great way to end up with shitfucked paperwork if you don't. I guess CM wouldn't be too bad on the longer runs, but on the Lakes when you're running six-ten hours between ports, loading for twelve hours, unloading for six and doing it again just before you get into the canal? gently caress that. I did work with a guy who'd put a deckhand at each end of the boat on the dock, sit in the TV room and trim the boat from there. It was impressive in all the wrong ways.
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Feb 23, 2014 03:04
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shovelbum posted:Yep I went to Great Lakes, didn't really enjoy Lakes sailing (mostly because of the effect the low pay and long irregular rotations seemed to have on people) and am currently headed to my first actual job on Tuesday after I do HUET etc. on a little 240' OSV. Are they still sending the new hires to Falck Aford in Houma?
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Feb 23, 2014 04:41
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localized posted:Are they still sending the new hires to Falck Aford in Houma? Depends on what classes you need, some are still going down there though. edit: HUET is the best thing ever. shovelbum fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 04:54
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shovelbum posted:Depends on what classes you need, some are still going down there though. I'm shoreside and they made me take HUET, still not sure why. Nothing like seeing a grown rear end man refuse to get dunked underwater.
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Feb 26, 2014 14:37
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Did they tell you to set your purse down before you pushed the window out or was that just me?
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Mar 1, 2014 00:04
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Thanks for the answers, it really makes sense that way. It's not very topical for me anyways and the four years are probably not going to feel as much of a chore when I'm halfway through and know a lot of what's left is going to be work practice anyways. But yeah, onwards to another noob questions.  How easy it's to score jobs from around Europe? There's a certain doom and gloom atmosphere in Finland regarding seafaring overall and while it's never going to disappear as long as the Baltic Sea stands our trade fleet is shrinking and I'm not opposed to the idea of working abroad, particularly in UK or particularly Scotland where I've lived in past anyways and where Aberdeen is a really busy port. So it's a question for eurogoons mostly, as long as you're EU should there be any issues? How easy it's to just... like, show up for couple of weeks and come out of that with a job? Considering I only speak English, Swedish and Finnish are those the countries I'd have to restrict myself to or is it common for, like, Dutch ships to use English as the de facto language amongst the crew?
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Mar 2, 2014 01:48
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Your issue isn't going to be so much language as the ability to work legally and have your certificates recognized in whatever country the ship is flagged in. I don't know how things work in the euro zone, though. Once you get into the open registry the issue isn't so much whether you're allowed to work there or speak the language as much as whether you're willing to work for $2 an hour.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:12
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FrozenVent posted:Your issue isn't going to be so much language as the ability to work legally and have your certificates recognized in whatever country the ship is flagged in. I don't know how things work in the euro zone, though. Open registry is like, flags of convenience? gently caress that if plausible.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:17
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Every day I wake up here in Fourchon and look outside I feel good about my career choice in a way I never did on an ancient lake boat or one of the few US flag ships in an ocean full of flags of convenience!
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Mar 2, 2014 02:57
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Whelp, got into UC-Berkeley and MIT for grad school, so long sailing!
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Mar 7, 2014 07:00
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Congrats.
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Mar 7, 2014 17:51
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Fish Shalami posted:Whelp, got into UC-Berkeley and MIT for grad school, so long sailing! Good job! In a few months, you're gonna get this feeling that you should go back. Don't listen to that feeling.
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Mar 7, 2014 17:53
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I've never had that feeling.
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Mar 8, 2014 00:08
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Everyone I know who used to sail and now works in an office gets it once in a while.
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Mar 8, 2014 03:29
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How could they not. They are droning away for fifty grand a year and two weeks holiday when they used to be making a load of cash with half the year off. I think you have to be nuts to work ashore.
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Mar 8, 2014 04:14
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flashman posted:How could they not. They are droning away for fifty grand a year and two weeks holiday when they used to be making a load of cash with half the year off. I think you have to be nuts to work ashore. Give it time.
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Mar 8, 2014 04:16
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Fish Shalami posted:Whelp, got into UC-Berkeley and MIT for grad school, so long sailing! Yep, now I wish I'd gone back for a full four years and a real engineering degree. That option down the line AND a license? gently caress!
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Mar 8, 2014 04:33
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FrozenVent posted:Good job! i got that feeling while working at the job I'm at now. I almost caved. As others have said, walking away from 6 months vacation and good money is hard. But now I won't have to worry about being stuck sailing the rest of my life.
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Mar 8, 2014 07:49
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The trick is not to put yourself in a position where you want or need to stop sailing NOW and end up taking whatever job is open at that moment. Once you have about five years in and a decent license (ideally a master mariner or a 1st class) start casually looking and snap that beauty when it opens. Don't go ashore and then look for work - That path leads to working for a ship chandler at 40k a year.
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Mar 8, 2014 14:35
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FrozenVent posted:The trick is not to put yourself in a position where you want or need to stop sailing NOW and end up taking whatever job is open at that moment. Once you have about five years in and a decent license (ideally a master mariner or a 1st class) start casually looking and snap that beauty when it opens. I'm an engineer. I have people begging me to go work for them at 100+.
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Mar 8, 2014 15:38
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lightpole posted:I'm an engineer. I have people begging me to go work for them at 100+. FV, this is what we call a burn.
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Mar 9, 2014 00:08
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lightpole posted:I'm an engineer. I have people begging me to go work for them at 100+. Yeah but you're educated in real engineering and can design things and inhabit an office, it's a mystery why you'd ever sail considering what the money's like ashore for those jobs. Way easy to beat chiefs pay right out of school with a b.eng
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Mar 9, 2014 03:02
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Chiefs are making 160-200k or so. Just going stationary engineering, working in a building, babysitting the HVAC and whatever else, the starting rate is around $50/hr which in a 2000 hour year is 100k. Add in OT and you reach 120k pretty quick. Chiefs and assistant chief in buildings make a % of the base the journeymen do, so like 110% for assistant chief and 120% for chief but they don't get the OT the journeymen do so the journeymen can come out well ahead. At least, that's the standard for the local 39 International Union of Operating Stationary Engineers here. If I went with a PE type job I would probably make 60-80 starting out. The problem with working shoreside is if you live in a place like the SF Bay Area where most of the jobs are in SF, you have to commute which is about the only thing worse than sailing. I'm not spending 4 hours a day in my car. So right now it's get at least some 1sts experience so I can put management experience on my résumé and then keep an eye out for something I could handle ashore. Also, you should have all the education you need for running power plant and buildings, it's the same as a ship only it doesn't move.
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Mar 9, 2014 03:31
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That's one thing, I got you mixed up with Fish who was talking about the kind of offers you only get with the mathy computery kind of engineering where you can push 200k out of school. Management wise we have OSVs here that the company has three unlimited license assistant engineers on being run by guys with chief limited oceans or that license with the OSV specific bumps. Shipyard now, what a way to start my first real job. shovelbum fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 04:22
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I'm betting Fish wants to know where to find those 200k jobs as well.
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Mar 9, 2014 05:52
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lightpole posted:I'm betting Fish wants to know where to find those 200k jobs as well. Never hurts. I didn't make the switch to shore for money though, I did to find something I enjoy more - life is too short to be miserable at work. Granted you can't have fun without financial security neither. I'm 95% positive I could have taken any one of a number of LNG type shoreside positions or something similar down in LA or TX that would pay probably about twice what I'm making here, but I don't want to live there and I'm not a huge fan of the oil and gas industry. Also, I got tired of breathing in and handling carcinogenic chemicals all day, eating poo poo food, being stressed, sweating my balls off, losing my hearing, being tired constantly, missing birthdays and weddings, etc. I really want to get into marine renewables and coming from a merchant mariner background I found making the transition to these jobs difficult, so more schooling looks to be the best way to do it. Plus, I'm hoping with a MS-Mech and MBA from MIT and a shipping license that I can find a decent job pretty much anywhere I want in the maritime field. My roommate from school is telling me that 1 a/e's with pacific drilling are making 200k+ for month on/month off, I doubt I'll be making that much anytime soon, but hopefully going back to grad school puts me in a better position later in life where I have more upward mobility. Anywho, I feel like making anything over 150k a year is great, but not essential to have a great and care-free life.
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Mar 9, 2014 21:14
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Yeah, you raise a lot of good points. I really wish that the time and money had between there for me to study actual engineering and learn all the design side stuff and get that BEng. You hear the idiots on tv whining about not enough STEM grads and here I am wishing I could've afforded the extra year and a half.
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Mar 10, 2014 01:27
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It's also a good idea to take (and ideally pass) the FE if one goes the BEng route. I think sailing time can count towards the time needed to sit for a naval architecture PE.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:50
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At CMA the Marine and Facilities engineers are mainly focused on running ships and power plants and miss out on a bunch of the theory the MEs get. All the MEs who take the EIT pass it but everyone else has an uphill battle if they want to. I was looking at masters programs last year and realized I should take calc and some other math classes to refresh all my theory if I really wanted to go that route.being out of school for so long kinda sucks in that regard.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:16
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Bad news, everyone.The Economist posted:Ghost ships I guess it's time to start saving for retirement before the sea is full of roboships.
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Mar 12, 2014 20:46
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Which is great until the first ship is hacked and crashes into something or else just starts discharging everything everywhere.
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Mar 13, 2014 00:38
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I saw that. The engine side has a lot further to go than the bridge does. If they really wanted to they could take mates off anytime. This would require changes to ship like GPS on all of them so everyone knows where everyone is that companies aren't interested in. They also proposed having just one ship among a group manned which could work better and be implemented faster. The automation on the engine side is nowhere near ready for unmanned ships but could get there one day. I figure maybe 20 years before they get rid of mates, longer for engineers.
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Mar 13, 2014 02:32
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lightpole posted:The automation on the engine side is nowhere near ready for unmanned ships but could get there one day. I figure maybe 20 years before they get rid of mates, longer for engineers. It's not cost effective yet anyway, I'm sure you could do some aerospace style stuff with materials and redundancy and gas turbines that would be very workable, especially with plenty of techs available in port.
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Mar 13, 2014 02:46
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Yeah cost was the other problem. Basically they could do it tomorrow but more likely it will be 20-40 years. I don't see how it could happen with the US fleet however as it will take another 20-40 years to get the ships from the rest of the world and then they will probably need a crew to keep those wrecks afloat.
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Mar 13, 2014 03:12
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I read about that the other day on Fairplay, and to be honest, I don't think it will ever happen for a multitude of reasons. First, obviously, ships are complex and require dozens of actions a day in terms of maintenance. Second, too easy a target for piracy which will make shippers resistant no matter what kind of freight rate they get and will give insurers nightmares. Third, what is their solution for coming into our sailing from port? I could go on but to me it's a pie in the sky pipe dream.
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Mar 13, 2014 03:31
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I think full automation won't happen, but having the deck side automated should be no problem. I seem to remember that parts of the container terminal in Rotterdam are now unloading using unmanned cranes? As light pole said, engine side is no where close to this level of automation. I just think about all the times I came down to check on something in the e/r during an evening round and found a fuel pipe burst or a sea water leak. I think there are too many variables in the e/r to go completely unmanned, so I think a skeleton crew is the way to go. Maybe a chief, 2 a/e and a mate. When ship nears port, pilots and AB gang can come on to help with docking, pretty much what they do now anyways. I don't think traditional piracy will be an issue, but as that article mentioned, data security will be a huge problem.
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Mar 13, 2014 07:23
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There's plenty of options to deal with those problems. You can have a crew on standby for arrival, for equipment failure, whatever. You can increase the safety margin on equipment failure as well, run a skeleton crew or just use a chief in a remote control room watching with cameras. I remember on my first ship as 3rd I got called out around 2300 after the 1st had gone down for his duty round and found a HP fuel line had just blown a gasket and a mist was being blown back onto 2 of the 3 running generators located just aft of the ME. That was a bit of a nervous situation. Shipping companies will do it if and when they feel the costs justify. Right now though the cost of fuel trumps everything by a mile so labor costs aren't really a big deal. lightpole fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 09:24
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Think you are having a bad day? Think again. It's days like today I thank God I don't have anything to do with containers.
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Mar 14, 2014 18:43
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Total deck side automation could be more problematic than it's worth depending on the vessel type. The crews on bulk carriers are already very often too small to get the holds ready in time for loading as it is. Especially with cargoes like kaolin or grain. What might go away with automation is watch-standing on both sides of the house. I board those Atlantic Ro-ro vessels occasionally. I'm pretty sure I've done BB load surveys on that one.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:42
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