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Let's step back from Biz school for a moment, because it's Sundae Venting Time. Remember that post about the horrible spreadsheet rules, verifying each and every use of one? I can one-up that now. They have opted to apply the 'prove all calculations are performed correctly' SOP rules to our software as well, including our commercial statistics package: Minitab. In short, before we can use Minitab for any GMP purposes, we have to prove that it generates the correct outputs. For everything. In all contexts. For all inputs. (The problem's obvious, right?) Yep... the CSV group has informed us that we cannot use Minitab for any official purposes until it is proven that the software's outputs match a hand-calculated verification study for each and every possible numerical combination. This is impossible, as those are (no duh) literally infinite. We have no functioning statistical package now, and our control-charting / production history group has slammed on the brakes and ceased all work as they can no longer do their jobs. I cannot use any advanced statistics in any report now unless it's something I can do in excel (using those same lovely old rules I posted about for spreadsheet verification each and every time). I am in Hell.
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Mar 1, 2014 04:13
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Sundae posted:Let's step back from Biz school for a moment, because it's Sundae Venting Time. Wait. Excel's software. Why doesn't that have to be hand-verified for infinite numerical combinations?
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Mar 1, 2014 04:26
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sbaldrick posted:Do you honestly think B-school has done anything remotely good for the world? This is a serious question as I can't think of anything that you learn in B-school at a well run company shouldn't teach you on the job. That's a ridiculous question. Most (all?) business leaders good and bad were specialized in one way or another in the beginning of their careers, and business school is a way to get familiarity with topics that are absolutely important. Unless your title is Management Generalist or something, there is no one that could attend a good MBA program and get nothing out of it. Obligatory example: Plenty of engineers and lawyers end up in management, and zero of them would have ever been exposed to GAAP accounting. Edit: Sundae, that is so bad that I hardly believe it is actually true. What the gently caress are your supervisors doing to react to such outrageous policy?
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Mar 1, 2014 04:35
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antiga posted:That's a ridiculous question. Most (all?) business leaders good and bad were specialized in one way or another in the beginning of their careers, and business school is a way to get familiarity with topics that are absolutely important. Unless your title is Management Generalist or something, there is no one that could attend a good MBA program and get nothing out of it. Yeah, no one's answering the question.
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Mar 1, 2014 05:32
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Kreeblah posted:Wait. Excel's software. Why doesn't that have to be hand-verified for infinite numerical combinations? I don't know. NOTHING HERE MAKES SENSE. For Excel, we're required to print each spreadsheet with all formulas shown, and we have to get them all hand-reviewed every time we use them. However, you're absolutely right; nothing about that approach states that the actual calculations are correct. They're making us prove that the average for Minitab is correct, but not AVERAGE(D1:D22) in Excel. It's inconsistent. I'm counting down the months until freedom. There's no way this company survives. quote:What the gently caress are your supervisors doing to react to such outrageous policy? My supervisor has scheduled an escalation meeting with upper management to protest the decision. It's about all she can do.
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Mar 1, 2014 06:06
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The obvious solution is to manually count every pill and put them in bottle by hand. Every bottle is then sent to quality control, where the entire content is analysed to determine if the bottle was fit to be sold.
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Mar 1, 2014 06:47
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Sundae posted:I am in Hell. How are your Real/Complex Analysis skills? I think you should double down and challenge that department to derive basic mathematical operations from fundamental axioms.
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Mar 1, 2014 07:05
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I used to think I lucked out, having worked only for Fortune 100 best places to work for firms in the midwest. Something happened today that really shook my loving faith in corporate though and reminded me more of my of somewhat shady rough and tumble job doing union organizing right out of college. Got written up (first time since kindergarten, I swear) for taking some unplanned leave to drive my parents to the airport for an emergency. I was in a meeting at the time and my phone was on vibrate but kept on going off. I glanced at the lockscreen and saw all the texts indicating it was an emergent situation so I hastily excused myself and my boss told me it was ok, just shoot him an email to let him know what happened. Lo and behold, I was about to leave this afternoon when he calls me into an unlit conference room and wants to have a "difficult conversation." I've been working at the firm for 9 months, no prior disciplines or anything. I figured he wanted to chew on me for goofing off on the internet (which I do legitimately do, but so does the entire department) but I was really shocked he was going to nail me for absenteeism with that emergency. He admitted it was a one off and that if it were up to him he'd just give me a stern warning to never let it happen again, however there were "other considerations" in play that went into his decision that he didn't elaborate on. So he talked about the charge and had me sign the form. It was so dim in the drat room I didn't see exactly what I was signing (ironically something I used to tell employees at our shops to not sign poo poo unless a shop steward was present) but it seems like by signing it I pretty much waived any ability to appeal to HR. It was also dropped on me as soon as I was packing up to leave for the day so there were less chances for me to kick up a storm and have to fight the murderous traffic home later. I know I'm not a perfect employee and have committed more than my share of new office grunt fuckups, but this was genuinely out of left field. By management's own standards I was considered a top employee in terms of productivity and awarded time off in this respect. This firm was renowned in the past for its family friendly policies and the people who referred me for the job all had nothing but nice things to say even when I would try to egg them on to complain about their jobs. Since last year and a new restructuring was put in I've noticed a lot of changes. For one, the people who referred me have left or are considering leaving and my linkedin network of people from this company has changed dramatically. Perhaps it's a sign of things to come for this company.
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Mar 1, 2014 07:20
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Solkanar512 posted:How are your Real/Complex Analysis skills? I think you should double down and challenge that department to derive basic mathematical operations from fundamental axioms. I'd be tempted to use this as an opportunity to come up with the most obtuse but mathematically sound way of performing calculations.
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Mar 1, 2014 09:38
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So dumb this down for me. If you want to use 2 + 2 in a calculation in your software, you first have to hand-prove what the result of 2 + 2 is?
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Mar 1, 2014 10:04
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Make them prove by hand that e^(i*pi) = -1
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Mar 1, 2014 10:15
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Swink posted:So dumb this down for me. It sounds more like a situation of, prove a + b for all numerical combinations of a and b. Or, prove a + b = 4 for all possible combinations of a and b that would result in 4. Imaginary numbers included.
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Mar 1, 2014 14:26
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Solkanar512 posted:How are your Real/Complex Analysis skills? I think you should double down and challenge that department to derive basic mathematical operations from fundamental axioms.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:54
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Peven Stan posted:I used to think I lucked out, having worked only for Fortune 100 best places to work for firms in the midwest. Something happened today that really shook my loving faith in corporate though and reminded me more of my of somewhat shady rough and tumble job doing union organizing right out of college. Got written up (first time since kindergarten, I swear) for taking some unplanned leave to drive my parents to the airport for an emergency. I was in a meeting at the time and my phone was on vibrate but kept on going off. I glanced at the lockscreen and saw all the texts indicating it was an emergent situation so I hastily excused myself and my boss told me it was ok, just shoot him an email to let him know what happened. Yeah, this is a sign that you should probably be joining the people abandoning shop.
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Mar 1, 2014 17:21
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Peven Stan posted:...He admitted it was a one off and that if it were up to him he'd just give me a stern warning to never let it happen again, however there were "other considerations" in play that went into his decision that he didn't elaborate on... This reminded me of an old supervisor of mine who like to play petty games with this kind of stuff, which seemingly older employees were immune to. In the end all I could guess is that I was Gen Y, he and everyone else were Baby Boomers, and his justification (i.e., "other considerations") for writing me up for something like that was I was "a kid" to him and needed straightening out.
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Mar 1, 2014 19:06
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bytebark posted:This reminded me of an old supervisor of mine who like to play petty games with this kind of stuff, which seemingly older employees were immune to. In the end all I could guess is that I was Gen Y, he and everyone else were Baby Boomers, and his justification (i.e., "other considerations") for writing me up for something like that was I was "a kid" to him and needed straightening out. The most hosed up thing is that a veral chew out wouldn't have been put on my corporate rap sheet but this writeup means I am not eligible for a job change that I was looking forward to in the next few months. The VP of the division overall is someone my family knows and it was alleged that when my resume was put on the discard pile he ordered it put back in and had talked to me about joining his team once I've been at the company for a year. I'm not the kind of person to run to others to ask favors but I wonder if he knew about my supervisor and his manager dropping a writeup as a first punishment for absenteeism. And another thing. We're a suit and tie brokerage that has had a historical bias against hiring college graduates (no longer due to obvious reasons). My supervisor and the manager in charge of the department both lack college degrees, so I wonder how much of this is just SOP to knock people down from their perceived pedestals. I know the manager used to manage truck stops and reportedly got into a physical fight with an employee she fired that day and the police came (happened on a day I was away for training).
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Mar 1, 2014 19:40
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I know you know this, but that whole 'darkened room to sign something about the bullshit way I'm handling this' really sucks, man. You should be able to go to HR on that alone, that's not the way you handle people and perhaps this guy needs a tap on the shoulder. That said you probably don't want to have to deal with the fallout and that is fair enough, but I'm just letting you know that I also think you've been dealt with unfairly here.
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Mar 1, 2014 19:46
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Peven Stan posted:And another thing. We're a suit and tie brokerage that has had a historical bias against hiring college graduates (no longer due to obvious reasons). My supervisor and the manager in charge of the department both lack college degrees, so I wonder how much of this is just SOP to knock people down from their perceived pedestals. I know the manager used to manage truck stops and reportedly got into a physical fight with an employee she fired that day and the police came (happened on a day I was away for training). Oh God, yeah, if you have a degree there is just no way to please those people. They bootstrapped their way up from sweeping the floors, you're an entitled college brat who coasted through on mommy and daddy's dime, and there's no way you're getting anything without a struggle. I'm not going to debate the merits of going to college vs going right into the workforce because it's not clear cut and what's good for some isn't good for others. But every high-level manager I've dealt with who didn't have some sort of post-secondary education was always lacking in the ethics and people skills departments.
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Mar 1, 2014 20:12
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bytebark posted:Oh God, yeah, if you have a degree there is just no way to please those people. They bootstrapped their way up from sweeping the floors, you're an entitled college brat who coasted through on mommy and daddy's dime, and there's no way you're getting anything without a struggle. Yeah I can understand a lot of the bashing of entitled children or whatever since the working class in this country is bitter as gently caress, but at the end of the day we're not a nursing home and I'm not a 9.50/hr nursing assistant. I get it that 90% of the department are people without degrees and basically this job is their lifeline to the middle class with benefits and a matching 401k that you can cow into submission. At the same time when you pull poo poo like this it really is a gamble between how much you think the job market is such a buyer's market that I can't find another position somewhere else vs. the probability you can find a replacement for me right when tax season rolls in and the workload picks up. Sometimes your hands are tied when it comes to poo poo, and sometimes you like to gently caress with people just to see what will happen. This isn't the first boss I've had that enjoyed stirring the pot and tweaking with people just to see how they react. Just remembered another detail: Our firm uses the DoL 7 minute guideline on tardies when it comes to hourly employees. It's basically coded into our ADP time sheet so that if you're a 9-5 and you log in at 9:05 it won't flag it as a tardy for supervisor review. The first month she came in she found the policy distasteful and said she would pursue a unilateral department policy where even one minute tardies would be noted. This is accomplished by the supervisors adding a note to your "tardies" indicating tardiness. I am sure HR is unaware of this.
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Mar 1, 2014 21:01
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This whole things sounds like corporate bullshit, but what's an emergency situation that requires you to leave work and drive your parents to the airport?
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Mar 1, 2014 21:23
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Harry posted:This whole things sounds like corporate bullshit, but what's an emergency situation that requires you to leave work and drive your parents to the airport? My dad's parents aren't doing that well healthwise.
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Mar 1, 2014 21:24
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Peven Stan posted:My dad's parents aren't doing that well healthwise. Can they not take a cab or just park at the airport? Or did you go with them?
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Mar 1, 2014 21:26
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Why would you sign the paperwork?
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Mar 1, 2014 22:33
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Ghostnuke posted:Why would you sign the paperwork? It's a bad idea, but it's still really easy to fall into the trap. Your willpower is drained, your decision making skills aren't at their sharpest and you just want to move on, so you sign.
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Mar 1, 2014 22:37
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Swink posted:So dumb this down for me. Fake scenario: Let's say our release potency values for five batches are 100%, 100%, 99%, 97%, 95%. Our average potency is 98.2%. So, by the computer systems verification/validation SOPs, you must prove that everything is correctly calculated. For Excel, this involves handing a spreadsheet showing the formula, having someone second-person verify it. [SUM(A1:A5)/COUNT(A1:A5) equivalent to AVERAGE(A1:A5)]. This is going to be clearly true in all cases, no matter what number you throw into it, unless you dispute the core concept of numbers. I wouldn't put it past them, but they haven't done it yet. For Minitab, though, our Consent Decree verifiers and quality unit don't accept the core assumption of "the software works as intended." So, when we demonstrate that the dataset above does indeed provide a result matching the Excel calculation and the hand calculation, they instead push back and say "Ah, but what if you had a sixth value of 92? How do you know it works for THAT? We accept your data for this submission, but you need to perform a full verification before we'll just let you use Minitab willy-nilly!" They not only demanded proof that the software calculated the correct average, but then demanded proof that it always calculates the correct average for any possible dataset. It's just as insane as it sounds. It defeats the purpose of ever using software for any function whatsoever if I have to always hand-prove anything I do, especially when we get into more complicated things. I don't WANT to do confidence intervals and control charts by hand. That's why we have a motherfucking stats package. Sundae fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 23:30
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Never underestimate the ability of senior management to turn on you (in apparently the most kafkaesque way possible) on a dimeTony Montana posted:I know you know this, but that whole 'darkened room to sign something about the bullshit way I'm handling this' really sucks, man. You should be able to go to HR on that alone, that's not the way you handle people and perhaps this guy needs a tap on the shoulder. That said you probably don't want to have to deal with the fallout and that is fair enough, but I'm just letting you know that I also think you've been dealt with unfairly here. You've been treated really shittily here, Peven Stan, but I promise if you go to HR with this, you will be fired immediately. I have learned this the hard way. HR is not there to protect you or to make sure you are treated fairly. Sorry, but please don't go to HR with this until you've found another job. Ghostnuke posted:Why would you sign the paperwork? What would the alternative be? Other than not signing and being fired immediately?
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Mar 2, 2014 00:40
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Sundae posted:It's just as insane as it sounds. It defeats the purpose of ever using software for any function whatsoever if I have to always hand-prove anything I do, especially when we get into more complicated things. This is why. Because anything bought off-the-shelf is a closed box, and you can't look inside and verify it, and there might always be some weird bug where a strange interaction of display formats makes it appear to give the wrong answer. But if have your own software department write the code, then you KNOW everything that went into it, you KNOW that it will always work as intended, you KNOW that it won't fail--and, moreover, you can open that code up to an investigator from the FDA and say "see, here is our code which you can examine and see that it works". Heck, you should be happy that they're letting you use computers at all!
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Mar 2, 2014 01:02
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HipGnosis posted:You've been treated really shittily here, Peven Stan, but I promise if you go to HR with this, you will be fired immediately. I have learned this the hard way. HR is not there to protect you or to make sure you are treated fairly. Sorry, but please don't go to HR with this until you've found another job. Yeah that makes sense. In the past this company has seen its share of complaints brought to HR and having them resolved adequately (ex. a branch manager was fired when his subordinates presented evidence he was manipulating their timecards to shave off overtime spent working w/ clients). Part of the reason why this company was a fortune 100 was that HR was renowned for being very powerful in blocking people from getting shitcanned, a rarity in both private and public sectors where HR departments pretty much do the bidding of whatever management assigns them. Since reorganization though they seemed to have transition into more of a traditional HR department. HipGnosis posted:
They transfer you. It's fairly common practice in this company to move "problem" cases around. One case I heard of got moved to our bank department when HR came after her about leaving customer information lying around. She threatened a lawsuit and HR backed down and moved her where she still works there.
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Mar 2, 2014 01:15
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Miss-Bomarc posted:But if have your own software department write the code, then you KNOW everything that went into it, you KNOW that it will always work as intended, you KNOW that it won't fail--and, moreover, you can open that code up to an investigator from the FDA and say "see, here is our code which you can examine and see that it works". But how do you know you're not running into a compiler bug that's introducing errors into your code? 
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Mar 2, 2014 09:17
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Kreeblah posted:But how do you know you're not running into a compiler bug that's introducing errors into your code? This is why software quality assurance programs are a thing. Part of it is having training and users groups that readily identify bugs and make them known, and part of it is verifying all the components that make up software. Our in house SQA guy hates excel with a passion because it is error prone but the bugs are not well understood. Also I have to agree with others that if you want to fight something with HR be prepared to be fired or transferred. Companies are highly irrational about worker complaints in my experience.
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Mar 2, 2014 16:25
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I couldn't imagine working for a company that doesn't use the tried and true "assume the numbers are correct, if not it's been that way for a while so might as well stick with it."
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Mar 2, 2014 18:19
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I find it a funny twist that many of the top companies in my field are American and therefore working for Americans is desirable, but never to do so actually in America. Working for American companies overseas offices seems to be the answer.
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Mar 2, 2014 21:23
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As the British Army put it, Indians make some of the finest troops in the world, when led by white officers.
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Mar 2, 2014 22:15
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Tony Montana posted:I find it a funny twist that many of the top companies in my field are American and therefore working for Americans is desirable, but never to do so actually in America. Definitively this. I worked at the Sweden office for a computer manufacturer, and they were downsizing because of the financial crisis around 2008. I got guaranteed 6 months employment before my 3 month notice, and I got a ton of bonuses etc that I would have gotten even after that period if I weren't redundancied. All in all my final paycheck came out to almost $35,000. At the same time, 900 employees for the same company in the US showed up to work one day, and there was a sheet of paper taped to their locked office door that said "you don't work here anymore, gently caress off"
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Mar 3, 2014 17:41
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evobatman posted:At the same time, 900 employees for the same company in the US showed up to work one day, and there was a sheet of paper taped to their locked office door that said "you don't work here anymore, gently caress off" The joys of at-will employement!
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Mar 3, 2014 18:02
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Snow in the DC region today has me wondering, how do other companies handle inclement weather? My current company's policy is work from home or take a day of personal leave in conditions prevent you from making it into the office (sucks for the people who don't have work issued laptops).
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Mar 3, 2014 18:05
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Hourly staff and contractors are unpaid for any time not in the office, regardless of cause. Salaried staff either work from home or get charged a vacation day. Run out of vacation days and they start docking your paycheck.
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Mar 3, 2014 18:21
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My office is open today - it has only closed once because of bad weather and that's because the ice froze our delivery driver's doors solid shut - and everyone is expected to come in today. One lady's daughter's day care is closed because of weather so we have a 2 year old running around the office. Dear god today is going to be so long!! We are a very small company though (6-7 people), it's pretty much "everyone come in" or "everyone stay home". If someone refused to come in because of weather I'm not sure how it'd be handled, pay/vacation-wise.
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Mar 3, 2014 19:01
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NomNomNom posted:Snow in the DC region today has me wondering, how do other companies handle inclement weather? My current company's policy is work from home or take a day of personal leave in conditions prevent you from making it into the office (sucks for the people who don't have work issued laptops). "I was working from home! Thinking of ways to improve efficiency/productivity/regulatory compliance/profitability" As for the question we have a blanket "if its dangerous or you feel you can't make it, don't come in" policy with an addendum of "work from home if you can" and an unmentioned "don't take the piss". Works fairly well (Eurozone country though so you know, workers rights). In fact thinking about it, the weather was really bad a few years back and I was one of about 10 people that made it in out of an office of 1000+ since I lived about 3 minutes walk away. The weather lasted a few days and I got bonus holiday days for each day I made it in, even though with just a couple of us there was gently caress all to do. Cast_No_Shadow fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Mar 3, 2014 |
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Mar 3, 2014 19:07
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antiga posted:That's a ridiculous question. Most (all?) business leaders good and bad were specialized in one way or another in the beginning of their careers, and business school is a way to get familiarity with topics that are absolutely important. Unless your title is Management Generalist or something, there is no one that could attend a good MBA program and get nothing out of it. Most engineers/lawyers/doctors has no business in management. Look at the current implosion of big law for the reason why that is (everyone openly admits the partners have run the firms into the ground). People get caught up in titles sometimes and don't realize that the person with the President or CEO title isn't the day-to-day in charge person.
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Mar 3, 2014 19:33
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