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The Deathwatch books make clear that the Watch Fortresses and stuff were maintained by extremely long range and advanced AdMech and Inquisition stuff during the Age Of Shadows. Though the extent of their involvement is not really explained - probably an Inquisitor on the lam and a handful of Marines who likely spent most of their time skulking, spying, and sabotaging things.
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Mar 2, 2014 17:43
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Or, like pretty much everything about Marines, you're just not supposed to ask how they sustain the losses they do and keep operating.
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Mar 2, 2014 17:56
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I thought Space Marines dealt with Orkz by knocking off Bosses, to keep the hordes split up? And yeah, the Age of Shadows is when Warp storms cut off the Jericho Reach from everywhere else, so how do they maintain the Long Watch after, say, the first millennium or two? If it were staffed by IG, I could see them shovelling dudes at it until some got through, but with Space Marines?
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Mar 2, 2014 19:07
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Rockopolis posted:And yeah, the Age of Shadows is when Warp storms cut off the Jericho Reach from everywhere else, so how do they maintain the Long Watch after, say, the first millennium or two? If it were staffed by IG, I could see them shovelling dudes at it until some got through, but with Space Marines? I like the idea that the Storm Wardens have been staffing the Jericho Reach Watch the entire time through the portal and just  never told anybody about it.goatface posted:I kind of want to play a game now that puts a bunch of Marines into a fairly normal city and has them as idiotic superheroes. I'm torn between being very angry that I didn't think of this and wanting to scrap my OW game I just started just to make it happen. Also, I want to profess my love for this thread. Seriously, all of you are awesome and chill and what little  goes on here is pretty much all relaxed and fun.
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Mar 3, 2014 00:31
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VanSandman posted:Honestly, for a proper WAAAGH!, you want the guard. The Space Marines simply don't have the numbers to combat the greenskin hordes, and indeed they're doctrine of battle isn't designed for that sort of fight anyway - they're surgical strike machines, not "grind you into foul-smelling-paste-through-sheer-manpower-and-stubbornness" that it usually takes to kill a WAAAGH and that the Guard is exceptionally good at. Really you want both though. Have the Guard hold the line whilst the Space Marines decapitate the leadership and then let the WAAAAGH collapse in on itself.
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Mar 3, 2014 00:33
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Hunt11 posted:Really you want both though. Have the Guard hold the line whilst the Space Marines decapitate the leadership and then let the WAAAAGH collapse in on itself. But then how would you force your OW players to remake the characters from the original Predator, then send them out to undertake a secret mission behind enemy lines while they are simultaneously hunted by a solitary xeno of indeterminate origin with a cloaking field? Semi-serious: Sure, that's what you'd want. But, like somebody else said, Space Marines don't take orders, they take requests. There's only one Mentor Legion (and I think even they got retconned out of being the Competent/Helpful Marines). For most Marines, not killing half the Guard in the crossfire is about as cooperative as they get. MilkmanLuke fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Mar 3, 2014 |
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Mar 3, 2014 00:45
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Unless its the Marines Malevolent. I pity the IGs that are forced to fight alongside them. Marines Malevolent should have rules in DW 
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Mar 3, 2014 00:50
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So what are marines malevolent? I've seen it get brought up a couple times in the last few pages. Is it a new thing or something?
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Mar 3, 2014 01:12
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They're the chapter that missile bombards hostage situations because the hostages aren't worth the effort of rescuing.
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Mar 3, 2014 01:14
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goatface posted:They're the chapter that missile bombards hostage situations because the hostages aren't worth the effort of rescuing. Didn't a Salamander captain get in a fistfight with a Marines Malevolent captain over this exact sort of thing?
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Mar 3, 2014 02:55
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If by 'fistfight' you mean 'put a power fist through his everything' then yes.
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Mar 3, 2014 02:56
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All this chat about Space Marines has got me thinking that I'd want to involve them in my Rogue Trader game as a plot point. Something along the lines of a wrecked ship on a planet, or adrift, or something like that on their way to a mission. Probably breaking something, whatever. RT crew comes across it, and would (probably) rescue them. Pretty confident about that, the crew is brutal and avaricious but not very heretical. I ran the first adventure out of the back of the book, they ended up spacing the pilgrims in The Maw ("are they useful?" "no." "space 'em") and stealing random alien poo poo on the off chance it'd sell. Anyway, how would that initial meet go down? Would the marines start swinging their big marine dicks around and commandeer the vessel? If there are only 2-3 squads, would they be more diplomatic? Would they lie/cheat/steal to make sure they at least got a ride? I just really like the idea of having this incredibly potent, but incredibly costly potential resource around (for a story arc or two), and maybe the crew have the cunning and skill to trick or convince the marines into helping out with whatever they're doing. Or end up at the wrong end of a storm bolter if the marines feel like they're being exploited or their goals not being met.
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Mar 3, 2014 23:59
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In theory an established RT is far enough up the Imperium's power spectrum that they can have man-to-man chats with Space Marine leaders. In practice it's more likely to be an exchange of favours and information with both sides making a big show about how they hate to lower themselves to the position of asking for help, but are sure that they can meet each other's needs in the best interests of mankind. They'd probably request (possibly phrased as a demand to save face) a ride. The RT would then be expected to grant it on the basis they'd be getting an in with a group of the Emperor's finest murder-hobos, or possibly even having them owe them a favour if the mission is particularly dangerous. Alternatively they might force their way on board the ship, judge the captain unworthy and execute the whole command staff before commandeering it and its crew for their own purposes. Really depends on them and how much they care about what the rest of Imperial society thinks of them. If the first option isn't taken they might do this one anyway, because refusing to help Space Marines in need is probably some form of heresy anyway. Play them however you need them.
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Mar 4, 2014 00:18
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A Rogue Trader has authority on the same level as a Chapter Master, so in theory any reasonably smart Marine squad is more likely to request whatever aid they need with the unspoken dual implications that they could go about doing this a nastier way but also that helping them may be beneficial further down the road. That said, the exact nature of the Marines in question may change all that. If they're Marines Malevolent, this will not be a fun time for anyone. If they're Templars, things could get tense for the psykers. If they're Alpha Legion pretending to be Loyalists, that adds a whole other level of complexity.
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Mar 4, 2014 00:20
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PantsOptional posted:A Rogue Trader has authority on the same level as a Chapter Master I wouldn't call it the same level. A chapter master can call down an exterminatus. I'd just say "a RTs authority comes from the same source as a Chapter Master, but is used for different purposes."
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Mar 4, 2014 01:47
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Well, not human worlds. They can wipe out entire xeno species for using the wrong fork at the diplomatic banquet.
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Mar 4, 2014 01:56
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They may not be able to pull the exact same strings - a Chapter Master couldn't go off into the unknown and trade with xenos even if he did so with the intent to benefit the Imperium - but they are the same in terms of status. The RT core book spells it out explicitly: quote:The Warrant also elevates the recipient to the highest of ranks to which a servant may rise, granting him equivalent status with such men and women as Imperial Commanders, Inquisitors and Space Marine Chapter Masters. They are granted the power to deal with such peers of the Imperium as equals, and the Warrant allowing them to call upon what aid they can negotiate.
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Mar 4, 2014 01:57
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Rogue Traders can make the decision to carry out Exterminatus as long as it's not on a planet within the Imperium, of course. Newly discovered colony of mankind that the RT decides is heretical(or just refused to pay bribes when demanded)? Hope your cities have Hive-level void shields and anti-orbital weapons, particularly if the orbiting Warrant holder has the House fleet with him. Besides, sometimes it's easier to wipe out the previous occupants and start afresh, especially if the residents were demanding fair and equal representation and distribution of the wealth exploiting their planet would bring.
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Mar 4, 2014 02:05
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Sour Blossom posted:Rogue Traders can make the decision to carry out Exterminatus as long as it's not on a planet within the Imperium, of course. Newly discovered colony of mankind that the RT decides is heretical(or just refused to pay bribes when demanded)? Hope your cities have Hive-level void shields and anti-orbital weapons, particularly if the orbiting Warrant holder has the House fleet with him. How can you "start afresh" short of Death Corps of Krieg 2.0 after virus bombs / planetkillers / nukes?
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Mar 4, 2014 06:10
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Well, that can happen if the planet has attractive mineral resources. The Adeptus Mechanicus WILL find a way to get them regardless if the planet is an idyllic world full of life and beatiful lakes or a barren wasteland with toxic air. And considering what happens after the Imperium exploits a rich planet you might as well get over that 
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Mar 4, 2014 06:20
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Sour Blossom posted:Rogue Traders can make the decision to carry out Exterminatus as long as it's not on a planet within the Imperium, of course. Newly discovered colony of mankind that the RT decides is heretical(or just refused to pay bribes when demanded)? Hope your cities have Hive-level void shields and anti-orbital weapons, particularly if the orbiting Warrant holder has the House fleet with him. As my Bolt Thrower rip off band once put it in a song title: "Free speech is heresy unto the immortal God-Emperor of Man"
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Mar 4, 2014 10:56
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Samej posted:How can you "start afresh" short of Death Corps of Krieg 2.0 after virus bombs / planetkillers / nukes? Typically, when planet-extermination is involved, people only call your bluff once.
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Mar 4, 2014 14:42
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Virus bombs burn out after a while. They won't stop you recolonising.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:21
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I'm sure there are all manner of viruses that would affect certain xenos species but not right-thinking glorious imperial humans. There's certainly a precedent for it.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:27
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Virus bombing is usually in reference to a specific sort of biological agent that breaks down all biological matter. Everything else is left alone. You can still recolonise but the planet wouldn't have any plants generating oxygen and so forth. Another problem is that the residue left after a virus bombing is highly flammable, so often the atmosphere(And anything else aboveground) gets burned away after bombing.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:28
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This actually seems to vary, depending on the source of fluff. There are several worlds mentioned in older fluff that have been uninhabitable for millenia after virus bombing.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:49
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FireSight posted:This actually seems to vary, depending on the source of fluff. There are several worlds mentioned in older fluff that have been uninhabitable for millenia after virus bombing. Like the AdMechs would only make one kind of horrifying, life destroying virus. Please.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:03
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VanSandman posted:Like the AdMechs would only make one kind of horrifying, life destroying virus. Please. Well, it's usually Life Eater that's used for the deed, but you're right. I'm sure a Genetor would gleefully concoct a virus that is specifically designed to kill xenos, if she had the resources and could actually analyze the alien DNA equivalent well enough. The problem is that many of the biggest threats - the orks, the eldar, the tyranids - are either bizarrely resistant, can detect the weapon release and just plain /vanish/ off the planet, or can even adapt to the virus before every last one is consumed. Pretty sure there was a blurb in a Tyranids codex about Life Eater being used to deny a hive the planet, and then once the firestorm died down, rippers burst out of the blackened soil. I may just be imagining this though.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:17
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I think the Life Eater is Dark Age tech anyway, and probably not messed with or understood very well.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:23
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Sour Blossom posted:Well, it's usually Life Eater that's used for the deed, but you're right. I'm sure a Genetor would gleefully concoct a virus that is specifically designed to kill xenos, if she had the resources and could actually analyze the alien DNA equivalent well enough. The problem is that many of the biggest threats - the orks, the eldar, the tyranids - are either bizarrely resistant, can detect the weapon release and just plain /vanish/ off the planet, or can even adapt to the virus before every last one is consumed. Pretty sure there was a blurb in a Tyranids codex about Life Eater being used to deny a hive the planet, and then once the firestorm died down, rippers burst out of the blackened soil. I may just be imagining this though. It's possible to survive the Life Eater virus if you don't get exposed to it, by say digging your way deep into the ground.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:31
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The Imp Guard fired virus bombs into a Hive Fleet ship, and the ship incorporated the virus and started firing the virus back inside it's own projectiles.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:36
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FireSight posted:The Imp Guard fired virus bombs into a Hive Fleet ship, and the ship incorporated the virus and started firing the virus back inside it's own projectiles. That's absolutely terrifying. Which reminds me, has anyone tried statting up even a small bioship? I imagine the Tyranid Krakens would look like Void Krakens but faster, but beyond that I don't know.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:31
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Sour Blossom posted:That's absolutely terrifying. Which reminds me, has anyone tried statting up even a small bioship? I imagine the Tyranid Krakens would look like Void Krakens but faster, but beyond that I don't know. If you run into a hive fleet, you can't escape into the warp 
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Mar 4, 2014 20:34
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No shields, heavy armour, equipped with grapple-cannons (ignoring usual size restrictions), if they board you lose.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:18
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Sour Blossom posted:That's absolutely terrifying. Which reminds me, has anyone tried statting up even a small bioship? I imagine the Tyranid Krakens would look like Void Krakens but faster, but beyond that I don't know. I did this trying to base them on their BFG rules. Somehow, my players killed an entire hive fleet splinter with a Sword frigate and a pair of Sunsear batteries. They were rolling hot as hell and were basically outrunning the little bastards for a three hour long epic engagement that I'd expected to turn into 'fight free and escape' but instead became 'we'll become incredible heroes' I probably made the 'Nids a little too short-ranged and weak, but it was still the most memorable thing that's happened in an RT game for me, so it was pretty awesome.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:16
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LOTS of ordnance. Huge swarms of enemy attack craft - easily two launch bays even on Escort ships. Slow ships that automatically win in boarding (Hard command test to overload the reactor or warp core and take some of them with you). Weak batteries, maybe an unexpected lance on a flagship, mostly just attack craft and boarding attempts, with torpedoes to keep players on their toes. They put you in a stern chase and send attack craft. You can take out the attack craft with macro cannon saturation fire broadsides, or hope your turrets and fighters are enough. If you go in for the broadside, their wreckers gain ground on you. If you keep running you run the chance of suffering damage immediately. Iterate as necessary and never let a clever trick work three times - first it's a surprise, then it's a learning experience, and then it doesn't work after that. The Hive Mind is everywhere and it's a fast learner. DOCTOR ZIMBARDO fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 22:42
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Sour Blossom posted:That's absolutely terrifying. Which reminds me, has anyone tried statting up even a small bioship? I imagine the Tyranid Krakens would look like Void Krakens but faster, but beyond that I don't know. One of the regular writers for ffg created a fan supplement that had stats for tyranid ships. If I wasn't on my phone I would link it, but all of them had front facing weapons only, and didn't have Morale or crew population, meaning the only way to win boarding actions was doing the one hull integrity a turn if you won the opposed command check or breaking free. One of the weapon options for the krakens were grabbing tentacles that made disengaging from a boarding action a bitch. It actually paid to use small frigates to flank the Fuckers and stay away from the ships with the superior maneuverability. e: I found links to the guys site, but seems it is down, when I get home I will try to host it somewhere and post it. It is a rather in depth pdf written pre deathwatch to stat up tyranids, not just ships either. Werix fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 23:03
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Sour Blossom posted:That's absolutely terrifying. Which reminds me, has anyone tried statting up even a small bioship? I imagine the Tyranid Krakens would look like Void Krakens but faster, but beyond that I don't know. Dunno where our DM got the stats, but we fought several bioships last session. They were both not very terrifying and very terrifying at the same time, our NPC allies got the brunt of their assaults, I think they managed to shoot us only once since we did our best to stay behind them, but the bioplasma guns they had on big ships were quite nasty and did a shitload of damage on our allies. Big ships just were ridiculously cumbersome, a fact not helped by us shooting off their manouvering thingies for every single crit result. I think some of the bioplasma guns had a special rule that meant that every time they did any sort of critical damage, either through crit rating or through actual crits, they would set parts of the ship on fire.
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Mar 4, 2014 23:11
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SpiritOfLenin posted:Dunno where our DM got the stats, but we fought several bioships last session. They were both not very terrifying and very terrifying at the same time, our NPC allies got the brunt of their assaults, I think they managed to shoot us only once since we did our best to stay behind them, but the bioplasma guns they had on big ships were quite nasty and did a shitload of damage on our allies. Big ships just were ridiculously cumbersome, a fact not helped by us shooting off their manouvering thingies for every single crit result. Pyric Acid batteries. They shoot acid that also sets you on fire, because clearly that's something the 'Nids would enjoy doing to you. It's kind of funny that they sorta predigest your ship with their guns before they try to eat you, like an angry space spider.
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Mar 4, 2014 23:27
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In BFG the ships could have so many spores floating around them that the spores count as a shield. Dunno if you would want to use that in RT or not. The ships also inflicted auto-hits on enemys if they came in close. Which made them the ONE fleet that could munch on Necrons as if they were candy.
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Mar 5, 2014 00:51
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