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Kismet posted:I know this is an upsetting issue and one worth talking about, but at least in this thread could we avoid making statements like "[X] people deserve to get harassed" or "this just proves that [X] people are contemptible"? Tom has made it extremely clear that he feels responsible for and bad about facilitating this unpleasantness, and I don't see that using his apology as a catalyst for doubling down will make him feel any better. Regardless of your take on the incident, the best thing any of us can do for his mental wellbeing right now is to take what he's said for himself seriously and stop attacking people on his behalf. This. Defending Tom is one thing; hell, I think he did nothing wrong! But, clearly, he feels like poo poo about it, and if he were reading this thread right now, which he sometimes does, and seeing people encouraging harassment "on his behalf," he'd feel terrible. Let's not make this situation worse for him than it already is.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:14
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Not So Fast posted:I think part of the problem nowadays is people paint the entire LGBT movement with such a broad brush. Everyone who is LGBT ends up under the microscope to such a degree that anything is apparently "bad for the movement". People need to recognize that a) objecting to something is not a bad thing and b) individuals do not need to represent a movement 100% of the time on their social media blogs Nice dodge. Your shpiel does a pretty good job of vaguely resembling something relevant to the situation but overall being tangential at best. I'd give it a B-
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Mar 4, 2014 20:14
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Rita Repulsa posted:Tom was the one being harassed. I don't think the correct response to being 'harassed' by a handful of people is to bring those people on the stage, whose retweeted tweets were pretty civil, to also be harassed. Tom seems to realize this, not sure why other people are having difficulties with it. Sort of seems like people think he's only showing regret because of his depression. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 20:15
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Rita Repulsa posted:Tom was the one being harassed. Did you miss the other posts on the previous page endorsing harassing the people Tom retweeted? To clarify, I don't support people harassing Tom over this. I genuinely believe he didn't intend to offend anyone, he made an honest mistake in how he handled this.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:19
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So! Looks like we're losing our favorite ghostie pretty soon. He looks pretty happy about it, though, so let's not be sad. Instead, let's celebrate the Life of Mort, which we will *crosses fingers* learn ALL about in the upcoming chapter! Speculations on who or what Mort used to be and the potentially gruesome manner of his (first) passing?
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Mar 4, 2014 20:46
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The original tweet was very mild, and the responses to it were also very mild. Retweeting those mild responses and following it up with "The internet is an incredible place" opened up the people making those mild responses to harassment from Tom's other fans, many of whom (as a casual glance at the Gunnerkrigg forums demonstrates) are massive idiots (as is true of nearly every comic or indeed thing at all on the web). Said harassment occurred, and it's that which resulted in Tom being actually harassed, and prompted his (good and sincere) apology. Neither set of harassment was good or justified in any way, but turning this into "Tom vs SJW" is a dumb framing of it.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:48
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Pucklynn posted:Speculations on who or what Mort used to be and the potentially gruesome manner of his (first) passing? Depressed manuscript illuminator hounded to suicide by nasty notes slipped under door, calling it now.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:50
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Pucklynn posted:So! Looks like we're losing our favorite ghostie pretty soon. He looks pretty happy about it, though, so let's not be sad. Instead, let's celebrate the Life of Mort, which we will *crosses fingers* learn ALL about in the upcoming chapter! I wonder if Mort even remembers; maybe they have to find out before they can send him
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Mar 4, 2014 20:51
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fatherdog posted:The original tweet was very mild, and the responses to it were also very mild. Retweeting those mild responses and following it up with "The internet is an incredible place" opened up the people making those mild responses to harassment from Tom's other fans, many of whom (as a casual glance at the Gunnerkrigg forums demonstrates) are massive idiots (as is true of nearly every comic or indeed thing at all on the web). Said harassment occurred, and it's that which resulted in Tom being actually harassed, and prompted his (good and sincere) apology. Neither set of harassment was good or justified in any way, but turning this into "Tom vs SJW" is a dumb framing of it. I am legitimately okay with making fun of an anime marxist twitter that has over 92,000 tweets on their primary account, with god knows how many more on their backup accounts (which they use whenever they've hit their daily tweet cap) and a twitter poster with 105,000 tweets that posts sexually explicit text and images in the middle of an endless stream of video game and ~social justice~ pap. It's not surprising that they think it's okay to harass random people with details about their genitals, but it also turns out that in the real world, that's not acceptable behavior. Also, this is Synammin Pigge: 
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Mar 4, 2014 20:57
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fatherdog posted:The original tweet was very mild, and the responses to it were also very mild. Retweeting those mild responses and following it up with "The internet is an incredible place" opened up the people making those mild responses to harassment from Tom's other fans, many of whom (as a casual glance at the Gunnerkrigg forums demonstrates) are massive idiots (as is true of nearly every comic or indeed thing at all on the web). Said harassment occurred, and it's that which resulted in Tom being actually harassed, and prompted his (good and sincere) apology. Neither set of harassment was good or justified in any way, but turning this into "Tom vs SJW" is a dumb framing of it. It doesn't help either that right now one of the original people who politely pointed out that said post was messed up is now being hounded on by webcomic people and giving eachother high fives with "lol tumblr".
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Mar 4, 2014 20:59
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step aside posted:It's not surprising that they think it's okay to harass random people with details about their genitals This doesn't even remotely describe what happened on any side of the debate, but keep on keepin' on, I guess.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:01
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Are you completely loving dense. What part of stop spotlighting people to pick on them do you not understand.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:03
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fatherdog posted:This doesn't even remotely describe what happened on any side of the debate, but keep on keepin' on, I guess. Actually yes, people were stepping in to say HEY I HAVE A DICK OKAY
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Mar 4, 2014 21:03
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How hard is it to just talk about a dumb webcomic. Nobody cares who whines on Tumblr or Twitter.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:08
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step aside posted:Actually yes, people were stepping in to say HEY I HAVE A DICK OKAY All the stuff he retweeted was people, very mildly, pointing out that some women have dicks and therefore his tweet sounded hurtful towards them. That's not "harass[ing] random people with details about their genitals" by any stretch of the imagination.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:09
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I'd feel better if a mod or someone could officially put a line under this and move the thread back to comic chat. Tom reads this thread at least on occasion and I don't think seeing people endlessly debate this into the ground on what is usually a pretty friendly forum is doing anyone any good
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Mar 4, 2014 21:09
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I would feel better if this was also on this page.Bongo Bill posted:It is hazardous to have fans and depression at the same time. I hope that Tom can find the courage and wellness to believe that he should not die because of Twitter.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:10
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Fatkraken posted:I'd feel better if a mod or someone could officially put a line under this and move the thread back to comic chat. Tom reads this thread at least on occasion and I don't think seeing people endlessly debate this into the ground on what is usually a pretty friendly forum is doing anyone any good Waterhaul posted:How hard is it to just talk about a dumb webcomic. Seriously we can go back to just discussing the comic and not Twitter/wherever drama.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:11
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E. Sorry, posted after the mod edict!
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Mar 4, 2014 21:13
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I don't believe this chapter is going to be bait-and-switch. It's a shame to imagine Mort not being around... but he just seemed so happy when he talked to Annie about it. I mean, it's really the natural conclusion to his character's arc, but still. Also: once Tom's feeling a bit better we should try to convince him to get a Patreon account. A few comic writers seem to be getting a little extra change that way, and it's not likely to hurt conventional sales stuff given how small a donation you can make. (It's not likely to replace it, either, but every bit helps, right?)
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Mar 4, 2014 21:23
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I don't think I'm actually going to miss Mort. Sure, he's kind of fun, and a guy like him would be great to hang out with, but he's pretty much played out his story role, especially now that we've met his "employers". All that's left in his corner is to find out who he was in life, which presumably this chapter will cover. He's had less and less screen time, since there's been less and less reason to bring him into anything.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:33
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Cleaning up house, character-wise, I think is important at this point and he's a logical choice.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:33
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How much profit does he get from his books? Because if I had the money, I would throw him money that. (If he also had them in stock. I guess that's a good thing if they're constantly out of stock.) I also follow him on Twitter, and it seems that he also got evicted, and needs to pay some fine because of that. I feel bad for him just for that alone, let alone this recent stupid BS. I think the whole reason it got brought up was because he was trying to show how to not write a character after all. With a few exceptions, the characters in this comic are defined pretty well and their motives make sense. Unless they're Coyote, who kindof stands for chaos anyways. (Hell, his comic makes me slightly nervous because Robot is turning into a zealot and it's concerning.)
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Mar 4, 2014 21:36
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I find it odd that people are saying the pace has slowed down recently. Without going and making a graph or anything, the comic has ALWAYS meandered and only ever doled out anything resembling a metaplot in fits and starts between chapters that were pure whimsy (though of course with character development and fun). Out of curiosity, where did the people who feel the comic has slowed down jump on? For me I could easily persuade myself things used to move faster than they have been for a while, but then it turns out the point where everything slowed down is the exact point I jumped on and started reading live, so actually it's just that it's slower now than it felt when I consumed ~1500 pages in 2 days
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Mar 4, 2014 21:37
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From my highly unscientific analysis, it seems to generally be the chapter after said reader catches up on the comic or the chapter after that.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:42
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IUG posted:How much profit does he get from his books? Because if I had the money, I would throw him money that. (If he also had them in stock. I guess that's a good thing if they're constantly out of stock.) I think he gets more money directly selling it through Topocato than from Amazon or other places, so if you do want the books I'd get them from there, unless you're lucky enough to see him at a con. I'm really looking forward to getting the next Symbol Pin that he sells too.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:42
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Not So Fast posted:I think he gets more money directly selling it through Topocato than from Amazon or other places, so if you do want the books I'd get them from there, unless you're lucky enough to see him at a con. From Amazon I think it's pretty much nothing. Topatoco shipping outside the US is so high though you might as well buy from Amazon and make a direct donation by buying a wallpaper for the same amount, since it'd probably come out about the same. Buying at conventions is the best thing to do, especially since you'll almost certainly accidentally buy a canvas painting or a sketch (like that time I managed to spend a hundred and five pounds on gunnerkrigg stuff, including precisely zero books and zero t-shirts)
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Mar 4, 2014 21:48
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Fatkraken posted:I find it odd that people are saying the pace has slowed down recently. Without going and making a graph or anything, the comic has ALWAYS meandered and only ever doled out anything resembling a metaplot in fits and starts between chapters that were pure whimsy (though of course with character development and fun). Speaking as someone who's been reading this comic "live" for years now, I'd say this latest chapter has felt particularly... aimless, for lack of a better word. I just feel like we really didn't get all that much in terms or either plot or character development. The next chapter looks like it might make up for that, though. Here's hoping.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:50
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One of the major problems is that the lady in the river has been set up as like almost endgame at this point, which is like where do you escalate to after that?
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Mar 4, 2014 21:57
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A few days ago, my girlfriend ordered a Coyote shirt and Annie in the Forest: Part Two. The former is flattering, fashionable. The latter is smooth, beautiful line work. I like the panel where Annie is figuring out if she has a boyfriend.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:00
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I'm calling it. Mort is secretly Anthony, and he actually died a few years ago. Don't point out how this makes literally zero sense.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:10
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Rei_ posted:One of the major problems is that the lady in the river has been set up as like almost endgame at this point, which is like where do you escalate to after that? Daddy issues. Jeanne seems like the midpoint to me. The big accomplishment before things really get weird and large questions are raised for our protagonists.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:19
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DaveWoo posted:Speaking as someone who's been reading this comic "live" for years now, I'd say this latest chapter has felt particularly... aimless, for lack of a better word. I just feel like we really didn't get all that much in terms or either plot or character development. I forget when I start reading (but I know it's been years), and I feel basically the same way. I felt like this a little during the Jones exposition, as well, but especially in this chapter it felt that not only did most of the pages not attempt to advance the plot, but some of them (the room repeats) had very little effect other to bludgeon the point over our head. For lack of a better term, I guess this chapter just felt padded? Like you could have taken it down from 24 pages to 17 or 18 without missing any of the important details. Maybe Tom just felt like 18 pages wouldn't have been long enough of a chapter, and tried to stretch it out? Meaningless pages aren't all that common in Gunnerkrigg. Rei_ posted:One of the major problems is that the lady in the river has been set up as like almost endgame at this point, which is like where do you escalate to after that? What stands out to me after Jeanne's storyline is dealing with the ramifications of whatever got her put there in the first place. It's possible she does have some idea, but simply bringing it to light wouldn't be an option for any of the protagonists for fairly obvious reasons.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:22
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Dr. Buttass posted:I think the problem with it is less that they're on "your side of the debate" so much as like eighty percent of the troublesome ones don't give a poo poo about social justice at all. They're just bullies who noticed that, if they use social justice words to harass and belittle, not only do they get the satisfaction of ruining someone else's day, they get praised for it. So as long as they choose their victims with a little care they never have to own up to it because when you call them out, someone else will jump to their defense about how they're totally doing the right thing and you're just butthurt because you can't call people "tranny" anymore (if that's something you actually are mad about though don't do that, it's mad rude). I was trying to find a way to summarize it all since it is basically that there are people who are trying so hard not to be one kind of rear end in a top hat they become another kind of rear end in a top hat rather than realizing it is possible to just not be an rear end in a top hat. But you said it better.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:27
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Rei_ posted:One of the major problems is that the lady in the river has been set up as like almost endgame at this point, which is like where do you escalate to after that? Coyote, Annie's father, the headmaster, Rey's entrapment, the robot code/religion, the mystery of Jones, etc.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:30
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Not So Fast posted:I think part of the problem nowadays is people paint the entire LGBT movement with such a broad brush. Everyone who is LGBT ends up under the microscope to such a degree that anything is apparently "bad for the movement". People need to recognize that a) objecting to something is not a bad thing and b) individuals do not need to represent a movement 100% of the time on their social media blogs
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Mar 4, 2014 22:31
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It's great to see people equating trans women upset about a joke they perceived as offensive with bragging on the Internet about their penises. That'll show those SJW scum.step aside posted:I am legitimately okay with making fun of an anime marxist twitter that has over 92,000 tweets on their primary account, with god knows how many more on their backup accounts (which they use whenever they've hit their daily tweet cap) and a twitter poster with 105,000 tweets that posts sexually explicit text and images in the middle of an endless stream of video game and ~social justice~ pap. It's not surprising that they think it's okay to harass random people with details about their genitals, but it also turns out that in the real world, that's not acceptable behavior. What the gently caress business is it if yours how much someone tweets? How is that remotely relevant? You're doing a bullshit maneuver where you say trans women having the audacity to admit their existence is harassing people about their cocks. What, would you rather they just shut up and go back in the closet? Pinstripe Hourglass fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 22:31
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Waterhaul posted:Seriously we can go back to just discussing the comic and not Twitter/wherever drama. Whoops posted before seeing, how do I get rid of prior posts on the awful app?
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Mar 4, 2014 22:34
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I think one of the reasons it's feeling slow at the moment is because I'm not really sure there was much actually happening in this chapter. We're building up to Jeanne, which is kind of a big ongoing thing, but there's not much smaller going on. The RotD is kind of a one joke thing, and there's been an awful lot of filler which is almost just repeating the stuff about how they're not all seeing the same thing. There's a whole lot of buildup, and very little closure. There's a lot of meandering about and pages which don't actually give us anything at all. It certainly feels like a lot more stretched out, and honestly clicking through a couple of the earlier chapters it feels like there are more pages which don't tell us anything, make new jokes or show anything particularly cool lately, although that might just be because we it keeps never quite delivering the payoff it's waving in front of us.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:37
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Fried Chicken posted:Whoops posted before seeing, how do I get rid of prior posts on the awful app? Copy post URL, load them in a web browser, edit them from there. Awful.app doesn't support post editing.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:40
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