|
The Worf of Starfleet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=?E_sUtXAl24o http://youtu.be/E_sUtXAl24o Fucked-Up Little Dog fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Mar 4, 2014 |
#
?
Mar 4, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 20:13 |
|
|
I'm probably kinder to Nemesis due to the time it was made. The franchise was basically doomed and they were well into the "throwing crap against a wall" phase. I'm aware of the various issues that plagued the production of TFF, but still, on the whole they were really in a much more favorable situation. Still a bit of an uphill battle, since few film franchises even make it to a fifth sequel without completely collapsing, but Star Trek 6 proved they were still completely capable of making a great movie. But they didn't.BrandonGK posted:I've seen a lot of silly internet arguments in my time, but "My favorite lovely Star Trek movie is better than your favorite lovely Star Trek movie" takes the cake. Really? Comparing the relative merits of two movies in a series is the silliest internet argument you've ever seen?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2014 22:09
|
|
|
Crusader posted:I was too young (like, a literal baby) to have appreciated TMP on release, but my I've definitely grown to love it more as Proper Trek over time. Yeah, VI was the first film I saw in theaters. That trailer gave me goosebumps. The franchise was far from dead in 1998 and they still dropped a big fat stinking turd into theaters. It was bad enough that I didn't even bother with Nemesis.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2014 22:17
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:...the Valdore was a pretty nice design? Them's fightin' words. D'deridex class 4 lyfe Farmer Crack-rear end posted:what the hell is it with people assuming TOS used wires Everyone thinks TOS was super-low budget, and super-low budget = wires duh
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2014 22:43
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The original Enterprise shooting model was twelve feet long, there's no way in hell they had it on wires. And, in fact, hanging it from wires in the Smithsonian is what caused it to require a pretty extensive renovation -- the model wasn't designed for hanging, and suspending it from the ceiling caused significant stress to the model's structure. That's why it's in the gift shop, now. jng2058 posted:the direction amateurish. Hey, hey, hey. I know I'm kinder to TFF than most, and I'll admit that it's a flawed movie, but the direction is the last thing you can criticize in it. Shatner comes up with some incredibly innovative shots. The composition and camera movements in this sequence are more creative than anything Nimoy could come up with on his best day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wMU9XDIm4g Or the amazing scene that I can't find right now, when everyone on the bridge is agape at the appearance of "God," and the camera slowly moves to the ignored tactical console, showing the approach of the Bird of Prey. That bit is incredible. TFF has some bad humor and terrible effects, but it's not like Shatner wrote the thing. That was David Loughery. You know what else he did? Motherfucking Dreamscape.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2014 23:25
|
|
|
Sir Lemming posted:I'm probably kinder to Nemesis due to the time it was made. The franchise was basically doomed and they were well into the "throwing crap against a wall" phase. I'm aware of the various issues that plagued the production of TFF, but still, on the whole they were really in a much more favorable situation. Still a bit of an uphill battle, since few film franchises even make it to a fifth sequel without completely collapsing, but Star Trek 6 proved they were still completely capable of making a great movie. But they didn't. Star Trek 6 didn't have to contend with a writer's strike.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2014 23:38
|
|
|
Sir Lemming posted:I'm probably kinder to Nemesis due to the time it was made. The franchise was basically doomed and they were well into the "throwing crap against a wall" phase. I'm aware of the various issues that plagued the production of TFF, but still, on the whole they were really in a much more favorable situation. Still a bit of an uphill battle, since few film franchises even make it to a fifth sequel without completely collapsing, but Star Trek 6 proved they were still completely capable of making a great movie. But they didn't. Star Trek 6 was originally going to be Starfleet Academy. Seriously it was going to be a prequel. One of the good things Gene did was goonrage about it and once Paramount found out they said no way and Harve Bennett didn't get his probably crappy prequel movie. Star Trek 6 basically owes its existence to ST5 though, because Paramount decided it didn't want to end on *that* note. What we got is, in my opinion, the best of all the movies. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2014 23:53
|
|
|
Crusader posted:I do vividly remember seeing this teaser for VI though, and while the film itself has some flaws (I still cringe at the casual bridge crew racism scene), they captured most of what I like about Trek as a 25th anniversary tribute in about 60 seconds here: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lKfkkhEbUlY The *whole point* is that they are casually racist. This is even covered in the commentary in case you missed it. That's why Cartwright is the one saying all the super racist poo poo in that scene. It's because humanity was so far beyond anti-black bigotry it doesn't even occur to him that the same arguments were made against his ancestors. Uhura was supposed to say a lot of racist poo poo too. She was supposed to basically outright say she was against inter-race breeding with them. The Chekov line, look who's coming to dinner, was written as hers too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2014 23:57
|
|
|
JetsGuy posted:Star Trek 6 was originally going to be Starfleet Academy. Seriously it was going to be a prequel. One of the good things Gene did was goonrage about it and once Paramount found out they said no way and Harve Bennett didn't get his probably crappy prequel movie. I don't think Gene actually had anything to do with it. They had the script and were about to start pre-production, and they told Martin Davis, the head of Gulf + Western, about it. He asked if Shatner and Nimoy were happy with the script and the PA says to him, "Well, uh, they kind of have cameos." Davis was a huge Trek fan and he hit the roof and demanded the Academy thing be stopped immediately.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 00:04
|
|
|
Timby posted:I don't think Gene actually had anything to do with it. They had the script and were about to start pre-production, and they told Martin Davis, the head of Gulf + Western, about it. He asked if Shatner and Nimoy were happy with the script and the PA says to him, "Well, uh, they kind of have cameos." Davis was a huge Trek fan and he hit the roof and demanded the Academy thing be stopped immediately. Hm. The story I had heard was that Gene found out and basically told Paramount. Thanks for the clarification!
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 00:08
|
|
|
Farecoal posted:Them's fightin' words. D'deridex class 4 lyfe Oh yeah, D'Deridex superiority, but like is not exclusive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 00:29
|
|
|
JetsGuy posted:The Chekov line, look who's coming to dinner, was written as hers too. I like it being Chekhov's, it drags it back into Cold War paranoia rather than just racism.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 00:37
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:I like it being Chekhov's, it drags it back into Cold War paranoia rather than just racism. Yeah, among many things that make VI a good movie is the way those two things get blurred together. Kirk's overcoming of both (and realizing how each feeds back into the other) is a really good character arc and a compelling part of the plot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 00:47
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Oh yeah, D'Deridex superiority, but like is not exclusive. In a film full of disappointments, the lack of a D'Deridex appearance was probably the biggest one for me. I was soooooo psyched for the Romulans to finally be in a Star Trek movie. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 01:47
|
|
|
Apollodorus posted:Yeah, among many things that make VI a good movie is the way those two things get blurred together. Kirk's overcoming of both (and realizing how each feeds back into the other) is a really good character arc and a compelling part of the plot. The problem with VI is that the last bit of Kirk/the crew's moral arc is the rape/show-trial of Valeris. Scotty and Uhura are pretty distressed at what's happening, but Kirk is insistent and unapologetic and Spock is absolutely brutal. They have a little scene afterwards where Spock's all "I have no idea what to believe anymore" and Kirk's like "nah forget that, time to save the world again" and that's that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 01:48
|
|
|
In what part of ST6 is somebody forced to have a sexual encounter against their will? Am I watching a different movie?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 01:52
|
|
|
Mindrape is still rape. (good point, Alchenar) Actually now that I think about it, conspiracy to assassinate a head of state, falsifying of Starfleet records, and two counts of first degree murder are collectively MUCH WORSE than mindrape and Valeris was not an innocent victim. Apollodorus fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:00
|
|
|
Conquistador posted:In what part of ST6 is somebody forced to have a sexual encounter against their will? Am I watching a different movie? You just don't understand, Spock is probing her mind without her consent. Spock is literally more abusive toward womyn than Kirk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:00
|
|
|
Conquistador posted:In what part of ST6 is somebody forced to have a sexual encounter against their will? Am I watching a different movie? Samantha Jones gets mindraped by Mister Spock.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:00
|
|
|
Sorry but calling that scene rape is pretty stupid.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:02
|
|
|
It's the violation of someone's autonomy by a parochial, powerful figure (and incidentally, a male committing it on a woman, making it more egregious). But I'd expect little better from a noted aatrek apologist so w/e, Conq.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:04
|
|
|
Conquistador posted:Sorry but calling that scene rape is pretty stupid. Yeah, almost as silly as excoriating a grown man for sexually assaulting a child.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:05
|
|
|
1st AD posted:Yeah, almost as silly as excoriating a grown man for sexually assaulting a child. Already gotcha covered.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:05
|
|
|
You can say what you want about me sticking up for somebody that plead guilty to a crime they committed against a minor when they were also a minor, but it doesn't make you right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:10
|
|
|
Conquistador posted:You can say what you want about me sticking up for somebody that plead guilty to a crime they committed against a minor when they were also a minor, but it doesn't make you right. ahahahhahah eat poo poo 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:11
|
|
|
Also I'd like to hear more about why raping people of a different gender is more egregious. Was it not legitimate rape when priests went after altar boys because they weren't female?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:13
|
|
|
Conquistador posted:You can say what you want about me sticking up for somebody that plead guilty to a crime they committed against a minor when they were also a minor, but it doesn't make you right. gently caress off. Stop posting, just stop.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:14
|
|
|
Apollodorus posted:Mindrape is still rape. The scene is clearly supposed to be evocative of rape and the earlier trial - note how the camera starts swaying to create a dreamlike effect and how the probing takes place in the 'pit' of the bridge with the crew watching from the raised railings around the sides - it's a callback to the klingon trial. The reason it's weird and not just disturbing is that the film seems to be picking up some kind of 'ends justify the means' point, examines it for a moment, and then just leaves it hanging in the air with no further comment at all. McCoy triumphantly announces they have a full confession to Cartwright, but it's a bit too late in the film for anyone to point out that that confession was elicited through torture. What is the film trying to say? Who knows?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:20
|
|
|
1st AD posted:gently caress off. Stop posting, just stop. Guess whose coming to dinner? You know, only the top of the line models can even post.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:39
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:What is the film trying to say? Who knows? Fair enough. The aporetic question here probably also explains why I keep forgetting about that scene. Its point is lost.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:51
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:2001? It looks great, but there's hardly any substance to the loving thing. It's long, it's dull, and the acting universally sucks. Even when emotions should be high as HAL runs amok, the dudes on Discovery are just droning along and having calm conversations. The dull, monotone astronauts performing rote tasks all day every day creates an ironic juxtaposition with HAL (who is a dull, monotone robot performing rote tasks all day). This subtly helps HAL build a rapport with the audience, which makes his death scene even more jarring than it already is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:54
|
|
|
Leave it to Conquistador to try and defend Spock being a mind rapist. He's either a great defense lawyer or just scum. Or both?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 02:59
|
|
|
It's not racist to hate Klingons because they're not a race, damnit. It's like saying someone is racist against squirrels or chickens.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 03:12
|
|
|
Sash! posted:It's not racist to hate Klingons because they're not a race, damnit. It's like saying someone is racist against squirrels or chickens. I assume you are joking, but in case you're not - race is a social construct. It's a way of identifying and differentiating people from whom a group wishes to distance itself. While genetics- or species-based arguments have been used (known as "scientific racism") race is fundamentally not a genetic thing (if it were, why would so many Italians be antisemitic when Ashkenazi Jews are like 99% genetically Italian?) What makes me pretty sure you're joking is that there's no way you can argue that there isn't a racial element to the Cardassian treatment of Bajorans, or that the stuff Gul Dukat says about Bajorans (both the patronizing bullshit and the crazy "I should have killed them all!" stuff) isn't vehemently racist. Or, for that matter, Captain Solok's borderline-hate speech towards humans and his calling the Niners all "humans" despite the fact that most of them weren't Terran. Apollodorus fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Mar 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 03:29
|
|
|
Sash! posted:It's not racist to hate Jews because they're not a race, damnit. It's like saying someone is racist against squirrels or chickens. / 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 03:40
|
|
|
Sash! posted:It's not racist to hate Klingons because they're not a race, damnit. It's like saying someone is racist against squirrels or chickens. And it's not racist to hate black people, because biologically speaking they're not a race either
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 04:15
|
|
|
Poster's Log, Netdate 210304.9. I've never trusted
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 04:21
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Poster's Log, Netdate 210304.9. put this post in a museum 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 04:42
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Poster's Log, Netdate 210304.9.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 04:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 20:13 |
|
|
Race is a social construct so yes, the aliens in Star Trek are in fact races. Conquistador posted:Also I'd like to hear more about why raping people of a different gender is more egregious. It's true. These FE-males are taking all the rights! 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2014 04:51
|
|
