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Gensuki posted:That seems like a really inefficient use of their time...
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Mar 2, 2014 00:02
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Neruz posted:That would make sense, given their unique position the best way to ensure that at least one Booker succeeds would be to send all Bookers. Presumably they only need Booker to succeed once for whatever it is they're planning. It also explains why they're always sometimes vague about what Booker has done or is about to do - if they're keeping track of an infinite number of Bookers throughout the multiverse it must be confusing to remember which one had done what already.
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Mar 2, 2014 00:03
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:It also explains why they're always sometimes vague about what Booker has done or is about to do - if they're keeping track of an infinite number of Bookers throughout the multiverse it must be confusing to remember which one had done what already. They're also probably not sticking to linear time at all so they're keeping track of multiple Bookers across multiple timelines at multiple times.
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Mar 2, 2014 00:48
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My braiiiiin Who's been loving with my medicine
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Mar 2, 2014 00:50
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StrifeHira posted:Obviously she is from a reality where she is the daughter of Booker and Comstock. But which one of them is the mother? This is important.
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Mar 2, 2014 00:50
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I like the idea that they're controlling a billion Bookers in different alternate realities. They will revenge themselves on EVERY version of Comstock.
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Mar 2, 2014 00:54
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MA-Horus posted:My braiiiiin Which Booker is when and where doing what and why?!
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Mar 2, 2014 00:58
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Spatula City posted:I like the idea that they're controlling a billion Bookers in different alternate realities. They will revenge themselves on EVERY version of Comstock. It would also explain why you get a fresh new Booker every time something happens to the player. With all the crazy alternate dimension stuff going on, I wouldn't be surprised if Elizabeth is Comstock's daughter, albeit from a different dimension. If I'm right, I hope alt-Comstock (Cumstock?) shows up at some point.
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Mar 2, 2014 00:59
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MA-Horus posted:My braiiiiin You're not starting to twitch out uncontrollably and get nosebleeds, are you? 
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Mar 2, 2014 01:00
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my dad posted:With all the crazy alternate dimension stuff going on, I wouldn't be surprised if Elizabeth is Comstock's daughter, albeit from a different dimension. If I'm right, I hope alt-Comstock (Cumstock?) shows up at some point. That doesn't make sense, since if her origin story is "Some(times|where|when) Comstock's swimmers don't go around in circles", there would be hundreds of Elizabeths across the multiverse. Similarly, Elizabeth's powers make that plot idea a lot dumber than it has to be. "She just popped out of the machine from nowhere and since she was born could make holes in the world" is a lot more digestible than "Well, this girl popped up out of nowhere, and she just happened to have magical powers and she just happened to share the DNA of our primary antagonist... etc" There has to be something unique about the particular universe from which our Booker hails that make it of particular interest to the Luteces. And right now, it seems that Elizabeth is the most likely source of that uniqueness, with her powers the manifestation thereof.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:46
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I think if (and it's a big if) there is something unique about the timeline the Player Booker is in then it's not that Elizabeth exists but that Booker got to her. I'd suspect that in all the other timelines Booker failed to get to Elizabeth in time. However that said I'm not at all sure there is anything unique about this timeline yet, given the authors and the overall tone thus far I would expect that there will be an ovbious moment where the Player Booker does something that none of the other Bookers do at some point in the future, or that it be revealed that he has already done so in the past.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:52
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Neruz posted:Which Booker is when and where doing what and why?! Seriously, trying to make sense of this game without three dimensional causality and relationship charts is going to be nigh impossible until it flat-out explains itself later. And I'll bet that won't help too much, either. It's one, long ride on the crazy train! Also, good to see you back, Sundowner.
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Mar 2, 2014 04:12
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Shei-kun posted:Yes, also indubitably. Yeah they're doing some very complicated fuckery with cause and effect across multiple timelines that necessitates some serious graphing to make any cohesive sense out of. I'm thinking we'll get an explanation and that it makes things worse.
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Mar 2, 2014 04:34
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Neruz posted:I think if (and it's a big if) there is something unique about the timeline the Player Booker is in then it's not that Elizabeth exists but that Booker got to her. Then we start to get into conversations of did Booker enter a different timeline when the first statue changed, is he from the same timeline as Elizabeth and I think we're going to need flowcharts and string.
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Mar 2, 2014 05:58
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I swear, it said I couldn't post twice rapidly, refreshed the page and didn't see it update so I pressed post and I saw it twice. I blame the alternate me.
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Mar 2, 2014 05:59
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This is the part of the game where I just turned my brain off, I'm not saying its bad or anything but its just a bit overwhelming to think about, I just want to shoot angry racist men in a flying city, not play Quantum Leap: the Video game!
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Mar 2, 2014 15:17
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Well if looked at from the silly point of view our Booker is different because he's a PC character. He quite literally has plot armor. That said it really does seem like they, or at least the originally male Lutece, are blitzing the problem with multiple reality Bookers. Given that we have already seen at least one failure state Booker. So if we take that to the logical conclusion every time we lived through the skin of our teeth a Booker died at that point. And if there was a point where we might or might not have died they (luteces) observed a universe where we lived and ignored one where we died. This is sort of like Darksouls isn't it? The chosen undead seemingly just keeps coming at the problem for seemingly ever just to murder your butt. Even killing him doesn't do anything.
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Mar 2, 2014 16:17
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Kinfolk910 posted:This is sort of like Darksouls isn't it? The chosen undead seemingly just keeps coming at the problem for seemingly ever just to murder your butt. Even killing him doesn't do anything. Sort of but instead of Booker reviving endlessly there are just an infinite number of Bookers; if they keep sending Bookers at the problem eventually through sheer dumb luck one of them has to succeed. It's actually a pretty good way to ensure you get what you want if you have access to multiple timelines.
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Mar 2, 2014 21:47
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my dad posted:But which one of them is the mother? This is important. Obviously it's Fink.
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Mar 3, 2014 01:27
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I still think there's a good chance that the game ends with an endless loop: We might get an explanation, but the outcome never changes. I'd like to see the game pull it off, too. It is possible to make a story like that interesting (cf. Twelve Monkeys). Even if the Luteces are 'twins', there still seems to be the possibility of any other character being a time-shifted version of another. It may well be the case that Daisy in the alternate reality literally is the same as Comstock. That is something I really hope isn't the case, though.
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Mar 3, 2014 02:23
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What makes you think there's a player Booker? You know how every time you die, you end up in the same apartment room? (Remember how Bioshock messes with genre conventions?)
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Mar 3, 2014 05:56
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Dr. Buttass posted:Obviously it's Fink. "My Three Dads" by Elizabeth DeWitt-Comstock-Fink, coming to a Barnes & Noble near you. Arglebargle III posted:What makes you think there's a player Booker? You know how every time you die, you end up in the same apartment room? And now I just have this mental image of the Luteces sighing and grumbling "Here we go again..." to each other.
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Mar 3, 2014 06:23
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StrifeHira posted:And now I just have this mental image of the Luteces sighing and grumbling "Here we go again..." to each other.
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Mar 3, 2014 09:16
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Hrm… Have we seen any evidence that Elizabeth "existed" in more than one reality? If what Lutece said is true maybe she's some form of singularity, a cosmic needle to repair the ripped fabric of spacetime. vvvv Ah, yeah, I think you're right. ynohtna fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Mar 3, 2014 |
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Mar 3, 2014 10:08
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ynohtna posted:Hrm… Have we seen any evidence that Elizabeth "existed" in more than one reality? If what Lutece said is true maybe she's some form of singularity, a cosmic needle to repair the ripped fabric of spacetime. The vox from red world Booker mentioned he was going after an Elizabeth didn't it?
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Mar 3, 2014 10:11
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Only just caught up with this thread; never played the game. In the Lutece's office, next to the picture of Booker's door there was a picture of a lighthouse, with the words "only one obstacle." That's probably the lighthouse from the beginning of the game, but it makes me wonder - who was the dead guy Booker found in the lighthouse? I think he had a bag on his head or something and Booker never removed it to try to identify the guy. Was he the obstacle? My guess is that the lighthouse is just one of those places that people who want to join Colombia can embark from, and the dead person is there to make sure they have the correct paperwork. The Luteces had him killed somehow so that Booker could use the rocket freely. On the other hand, maybe that guy is actually really important. I don't think the writers have referenced back to the contents of the lighthouse yet, so they might be saving that for something big. Also, I wonder if the nosebleeds are a Lost reference. I think that show had nosebleeding as a side-effect of the weird time-bending stuff.
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Mar 3, 2014 15:38
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Nosebleeds as a side effect of psychic/brain fuckery is a common thing in western media. There appear to be multiple Elizabeths, as I think Red Booker was talking about how he tried to get at Elizabeth, but got made at some point, and they moved Elizabeth to Comstock house. And without Elizabeth or crazy ghost mom, he would need the help of the Vox to get inside.
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Mar 3, 2014 18:07
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Powered through the LP over the weekend, the plot of this game is crazier than I thought it would be. I'm loving it so much that I'm actually going to stop watching the LP, because I picked up a copy for myself last night. You've done a really great job with the LP, hopefully I'll get through it quickly so I can come back in time to continue to be amused by the speculation.
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Mar 3, 2014 19:23
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VostokProgram posted:Only just caught up with this thread; never played the game. In the Lutece's office, next to the picture of Booker's door there was a picture of a lighthouse, with the words "only one obstacle." That's probably the lighthouse from the beginning of the game, but it makes me wonder - who was the dead guy Booker found in the lighthouse? I think he had a bag on his head or something and Booker never removed it to try to identify the guy. Was he the obstacle? My guess is that the lighthouse is just one of those places that people who want to join Colombia can embark from, and the dead person is there to make sure they have the correct paperwork. The Luteces had him killed somehow so that Booker could use the rocket freely. I also wouldn't discount the possibility that the dead guy with a bag on his head was in fact another failed Booker.
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Mar 4, 2014 01:22
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Neruz posted:I also wouldn't discount the possibility that the dead guy with a bag on his head was in fact another failed Booker. It's Bookers all the way down.
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Mar 4, 2014 02:48
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Neruz posted:I also wouldn't discount the possibility that the dead guy with a bag on his head was in fact another failed Booker. citybeatnik posted:It's Bookers all the way down.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:23
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I know where Booker came from, but where did all you Bookers come from? One thing that is bothering me a bit really is how far-reaching the changes from one timeline/dimension can be to another. We saw the statue change, which implies either a tear opened up close by, or that something else changed it. Possibly that was just the Luteces, who are screwed up somehow, but now I think there may have been other things being altered within the current timeline.
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Mar 5, 2014 07:05
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VostokProgram posted:Only just caught up with this thread; never played the game. In the Lutece's office, next to the picture of Booker's door there was a picture of a lighthouse, with the words "only one obstacle." That's probably the lighthouse from the beginning of the game, but it makes me wonder - who was the dead guy Booker found in the lighthouse? I think he had a bag on his head or something and Booker never removed it to try to identify the guy. Was he the obstacle? My guess is that the lighthouse is just one of those places that people who want to join Colombia can embark from, and the dead person is there to make sure they have the correct paperwork. The Luteces had him killed somehow so that Booker could use the rocket freely. He was the obstacle, he was the one who knew the lighthouse code. The Luteces tortured the code out of him, then killed him. You can see several bloody torture implements next to him.
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Mar 9, 2014 04:53
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Ariong posted:He was the obstacle, he was the one who knew the lighthouse code. The Luteces tortured the code out of him, then killed him. You can see several bloody torture implements next to him. It's odd that Booker doesn't try to search the guy for identification or even take the bag off his head. I would think a private detective would be a little more inquisitive. But then he might know more at the beginning of the game than we do.
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Mar 9, 2014 08:24
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VostokProgram posted:It's odd that Booker doesn't try to search the guy for identification or even take the bag off his head. I would think a private detective would be a little more inquisitive. But then he might know more at the beginning of the game than we do. Maybe he figured he belonged to the lighthouse keeper's union and just didn't care? 
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Mar 9, 2014 11:26
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VostokProgram posted:It's odd that Booker doesn't try to search the guy for identification or even take the bag off his head. I would think a private detective would be a little more inquisitive. But then he might know more at the beginning of the game than we do. Booker's really more of a thug for hire than an investigator.
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Mar 9, 2014 14:36
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Veyrall posted:Every single NPC in the game is another failed Booker. Comstock is a Booker playing the long game of having another Booker bring him the girl by way of pretending to be Comstock, and every enemy in the game is a Booker in disguise trying to take Elizabeth from Booker. The Songbird is clearly a mass of Bookers who joined together to increase their chances of getting Elizabeth out of Booker's hands. Except for the Luteces. They aren't Bookers. Say, does that mean that the debt they're all trying to wipe away is (through quantum shenanigans) the cost of trying to bring 'us' the girl?
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Mar 9, 2014 21:09
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VostokProgram posted:It's odd that Booker doesn't try to search the guy for identification or even take the bag off his head. I would think a private detective would be a little more inquisitive. But then he might know more at the beginning of the game than we do. Booker had no proof that whoever tortured the lighthouse keeper wore gloves, so if he touched the bag on the keeper's head, Booker would leave his fingerprints on it. As a result, whoever investigated the scene would assume that Booker may have lied about "just finding the body", potentially leading to Booker being falsely accused for a crime he didn't commit. Booker may not be a good cop, but he at least has some smidge of common sense.
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Mar 9, 2014 21:18
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Would crime scene contamination and prints be a thing in 1912, though?
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Mar 9, 2014 23:30
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Iceclaw posted:Would crime scene contamination and prints be a thing in 1912, though? Using prints in criminal investigations would have been about 10 years old at that point and fingerprinting of criminals started in 1906, at least in New York. Well at least in the United States. Some other places used fingerprints as security or for investigations since the mid 19th century.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:37
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