Paradox Grand Strategy: From the Carnival of Lust to the Enlightened Times

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Paradox Grand Strategy: From the Carnival of Lust to the Enlightened Times

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ArchangeI: Jul 15, 2010

YF-23 posted:

Thus founding the Sad State of Affairs.

Clearly they would form the State of Open Revolt.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 20:56

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# ? May 31, 2024 12:16

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

ArchangeI posted:

Clearly they would form the State of Open Revolt.

The revolt was sadly taken over by fascists, who then created a State of Terror.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 21:03

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

Agean90 posted:

The revolt was sadly taken over by fascists, who then created a State of Terror.

They soon began a program of armed expansion into neighboring regions. This was followed up by a program of forced assimilation; the goal was to Terrify people. Eventually their lust for land and power was too much, however, and their enemies declared a War on Terror.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 21:22

Cowcatcher: Dec 23, 2005; OUR PEOPLE WERE BORN OF THE SKY

vyelkin posted:

If the State of Nation isn't the first country to develop nationalism and become a nation-state I'll be very disappointed.

My King, Nationalist nationalists have rise up in Area

# ? Mar 5, 2014 21:24

Wolfgang Pauli: Mar 26, 2008; One Three Seven

Ofaloaf posted:

They soon began a program of armed expansion into neighboring regions. This was followed up by a program of forced assimilation; the goal was to Terrify people. Eventually their lust for land and power was too much, however, and their enemies declared a War on Terror.

In the chaos of these collapsing failed states, the people started organizing themselves and building alliances between communities. This anarchist commune would grow to become the Stateless Society of Nation.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 21:26

DrSunshine: Mar 23, 2009; Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

EU4-V2 Converter Thread: NationStates.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 21:32

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

Why exactly does converting saves from EU4 to V2 create wrong countries? I thought V2 was Clausewitz, does it store data in just a fundamentally different way? Paradox games are some of the most moddable games on the market, drat near everything is plaintext; how does a reasonably coded program slap down JAVA where China should go?

# ? Mar 5, 2014 21:54

DrSunshine: Mar 23, 2009; Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

DStecks posted:

Why exactly does converting saves from EU4 to V2 create wrong countries? I thought V2 was Clausewitz, does it store data in just a fundamentally different way? Paradox games are some of the most moddable games on the market, drat near everything is plaintext; how does a reasonably coded program slap down JAVA where China should go?

V2 is on the Europa engine, everything from Ck2 onwards is on the Clausewitz Engine. Maybe that's among the issues with it?

# ? Mar 5, 2014 21:57

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

DrSunshine posted:

V2 is on the Europa engine, everything from Ck2 onwards is on the Clausewitz Engine. Maybe that's among the issues with it?

This is wrong. Clausewitz is EU3 on, but CK2 is a newer Clausewitz - I think I saw a dev call it Clausewitz 2.0?

# ? Mar 5, 2014 21:58

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

DStecks posted:

Why exactly does converting saves from EU4 to V2 create wrong countries? I thought V2 was Clausewitz, does it store data in just a fundamentally different way? Paradox games are some of the most moddable games on the market, drat near everything is plaintext; how does a reasonably coded program slap down JAVA where China should go?

The country in that space is going to be either Ming or Qing (Qing in my case) when you convert from EU4. V2 has neither a Ming tag nor a Qing tag...it has a Chinese Empire tag. The converted isn't smart enough to realize that da Qing is the Chinese Empire. Same thing with Italian Estonia: the converter can't figure out what this "Naples" business is and gives it a random tag rather than Kingdom of the Two Sicilies.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:14

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Patter Song posted:

The country in that space is going to be either Ming or Qing (Qing in my case) when you convert from EU4. V2 has neither a Ming tag nor a Qing tag...it has a Chinese Empire tag. The converted isn't smart enough to realize that da Qing is the Chinese Empire. Same thing with Italian Estonia: the converter can't figure out what this "Naples" business is and gives it a random tag rather than Kingdom of the Two Sicilies.

So it basically goes solely by tag, without any custom conversion such as MNG -> CHI or QNQ -> CHI? That doesn't immediately spring to mind as a huge technical hurdle, but maybe I'm just misinformed.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:20

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

Patter Song posted:

The country in that space is going to be either Ming or Qing (Qing in my case) when you convert from EU4. V2 has neither a Ming tag nor a Qing tag...it has a Chinese Empire tag. The converted isn't smart enough to realize that da Qing is the Chinese Empire. Same thing with Italian Estonia: the converter can't figure out what this "Naples" business is and gives it a random tag rather than Kingdom of the Two Sicilies.

Wait, so it goes for a literally random tag if it doesn't know what to do? OK, I can understand the random weirdness, then. I'd just question why you'd even code that as a contingency, since it'll never produce a desirable result. And if it's simply a placeholder until some kind of dynamic tag generation system can go in, then I wouldn't waste the time coding it either.

Or is that the engine itself doing that, and not the converter?

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:21

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

So it basically goes solely by tag, without any custom conversion such as MNG -> CHI or QNQ -> CHI? That doesn't immediately spring to mind as a huge technical hurdle, but maybe I'm just misinformed.

It's not. I would imagine the problem is contingencies where both exist, but even then, it's certainly not hard.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:23

Wolfgang Pauli: Mar 26, 2008; One Three Seven

DStecks posted:

Why exactly does converting saves from EU4 to V2 create wrong countries? I thought V2 was Clausewitz, does it store data in just a fundamentally different way? Paradox games are some of the most moddable games on the market, drat near everything is plaintext; how does a reasonably coded program slap down JAVA where China should go?

The converter isn't finished. The guy working on it is still matching existing tags with each other and making sure that works before moving on to other tags that aren't represented in the game -- like practically everything in America and East Asia and Africa. Notice how Europe is more or less normal, it wasn't always like that. *e* Just PM the author on the forums, he's pretty quick about responding to questions. I think they're active on /r/paradoxplaza too?

Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 5, 2014

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:30

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

I'm fairly certain it's not yet finished, too. They're (hopefully) going to be going through and hand-converting those countries.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:31

DrSunshine: Mar 23, 2009; Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

Beamed posted:

This is wrong. Clausewitz is EU3 on, but CK2 is a newer Clausewitz - I think I saw a dev call it Clausewitz 2.0?

Oh I see! I was mistaken.

What games ran on the Europa Engine, then? EUII?

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:33

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

DrSunshine posted:

Oh I see! I was mistaken.

What games ran on the Europa Engine, then? EUII?

Hearts of Iron 2/Darkest Hour is also the Europa Engine. Victoria/Revolutions is likewise a Europa game, I think.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:39

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

And Crusader Kings 1 is... on something. Paradox took over development similarly to March of the Eagles from another developer if I recall correctly, not sure if they were using the Europa engine though.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:40

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

DrSunshine posted:

Oh I see! I was mistaken.

What games ran on the Europa Engine, then? EUII?

Everything before EU3.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:47

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Farecoal posted:

Everything before EU3.

A simple way to remember it: Awful dumb game for babies? Clauzewitz. Great game for smart people? Europa.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:50

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Europa Universalis 1 and 2, Hearts of Iron 1 and 2 and HOI 2's derivatives, Victoria 1 and Crusader Kings 1 are all on the Europa engine.

CK1 was being developed by a third party developer but Paradox took over directly when they weren't getting anywhere.

March of the Eagles was originally going to be the AGEOD turn based system/rules except redone in the Clausewitz 2.0 engine until there was some kind of separation and they just did MOTE in the same vein as a regular Clausewitz / EU3-4 game.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:51

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

DrSunshine posted:

Oh I see! I was mistaken.

What games ran on the Europa Engine, then? EUII?

No worries. The fun ones are Clausewitz is a good rule of thumb.

# ? Mar 5, 2014 22:58

GrossMurpel: Apr 8, 2011

A Buttery Pastry posted:

A simple way to remember it: Awful dumb game for babies? Clauzewitz. Great game for smart people? Europa.

Beamed posted:

No worries. The fun ones are Clausewitz is a good rule of thumb.

FIGHT

# ? Mar 6, 2014 02:21

Pornographic Memory: Dec 17, 2008

Thankfully Paradox turned over the rights for Clausewitz to ubik so there may still be hope yet that a worthy successor to the Europa engine games comes out.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 02:29

Rynoto: Apr 27, 2009; It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

Mention of Ubik made me go look and see if anything had happened in a bit.

Sadly the website and "World Stage" are completely gone.

No more descents into madness from the crazy man.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 02:45

burnishedfume: Mar 8, 2011; You really are a louse...

I was looking through my steam library and noticed I still don't own March of the Eagles. Did anyone ever make any mods for it, or did it ever get any improvements in patches? From what I played of it, it didn't blow my mind, but it was kinda fun and had potential to be a good condensed Paradox game.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 04:55

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

DrProsek posted:

I was looking through my steam library and noticed I still don't own March of the Eagles. Did anyone ever make any mods for it, or did it ever get any improvements in patches? From what I played of it, it didn't blow my mind, but it was kinda fun and had potential to be a good condensed Paradox game.

Wiz made an application that can automatically generate a bunch of random leaders for a country (that I can't find right now unfortunately), which was honestly my biggest issue with MOTE, but apart from that it's a pretty solid game on its own.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 06:49

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

GrossMurpel posted:

FIGHT

I was just "roleplaying" as a Paradox forums poster. :saddowns:

# ? Mar 6, 2014 09:26

catlord: Mar 22, 2009; What's on your mind, Axa?

A Buttery Pastry posted:

I was just "roleplaying" as a Paradox forums poster.

I don't see the problem, both options seems to mesh together well just fine. I'm pretty sure the people who complain that the Clausewitz games are baby games for baby people, don't actually play the games to have fun.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 09:35

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

catlord posted:

I don't see the problem, both options seems to mesh together well just fine. I'm pretty sure the people who complain that the Clausewitz games are baby games for baby people, don't actually play the games to have fun.

While that's true, I'm not one of them!

# ? Mar 6, 2014 09:53

pdxjohan: Sep 9, 2011; Paradox dev dude.

DrSunshine posted:

Oh I see! I was mistaken.

What games ran on the Europa Engine, then? EUII?

Eu1, Eu2, Ck1, Victoria 1, Hoi1 & Hoi2 did.

And some less known games like Two Thrones, Darkest Hour, Crown of the North, For the Glory as well.
(yes I know Darkest Hour is popular at this forum, but it didn't sell so.)

# ? Mar 6, 2014 09:55

Kavak: Aug 23, 2009

pdxjohan posted:

(yes I know Darkest Hour is popular at this forum, but it didn't sell so.)

Dang. Good thing Kaiserreich's HoI3 conversion is on track so we can take it into Hearts of Iron 4.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 09:59

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

pdxjohan posted:

(yes I know Darkest Hour is popular at this forum, but it didn't sell so.)

Oh man that is really sad - it's gone on deep discount so many times too.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 10:14

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

pdxjohan posted:

(yes I know Darkest Hour is popular at this forum, but it didn't sell so.)

How much of that do you figure is due to a lack of marketing and how much is it the niche target market (ie people who liked HoI2 but not HoI3)?

# ? Mar 6, 2014 11:45

Zohar: Jul 14, 2013; Good kitty

pdxjohan posted:

(yes I know Darkest Hour is popular at this forum, but it didn't sell so.)

That sucks, Kaiserreich on DH is the most fun I've ever had with HoI.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 11:56

Vivian Darkbloom: Jul 14, 2004

Is FtG dead for good? How's its playability now?

# ? Mar 6, 2014 12:23

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

pdxjohan posted:

And some less known games like Two Thrones, Darkest Hour, Crown of the North, For the Glory as well.
(yes I know Darkest Hour is popular at this forum, but it didn't sell so.)

Dang! I really liked DH. WW1 is a really underutilized setting

# ? Mar 6, 2014 17:22

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

pdxjohan posted:

Eu1, Eu2, Ck1, Victoria 1, Hoi1 & Hoi2 did.

And some less known games like Two Thrones, Darkest Hour, Crown of the North, For the Glory as well.
(yes I know Darkest Hour is popular at this forum, but it didn't sell so.)

Are there any plans to license Clausewitz 1, or considering the abject profit failures of FtG, Iron Cross, DH, etc., is that not really on the cards anymore?

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

Is FtG dead for good? How's its playability now?

I went back to it a bit ago before EU4 was out for nostalgia. Not really worth going back to.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 17:38

pdxjohan: Sep 9, 2011; Paradox dev dude.

Beamed posted:

Are there any plans to license Clausewitz 1, or considering the abject profit failures of FtG, Iron Cross, DH, etc., is that not really on the cards anymore?

We're not licensing our engines anymore.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 18:00

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# ? May 31, 2024 12:16

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

pdxjohan posted:

We're not licensing our engines anymore.

Oh yeah, I forgot Ubik owns the Clausewitz engine now.

# ? Mar 6, 2014 18:02

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