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Haymaker_Betty posted:Ugh, I know, right? I cringed there, too If you do decide to take a crack at it? Your best bet would be to just focus on the human element. Don't try to be cool, don't overdo it on the slang, and don't try to push "professional gaming" as "the next big thing." What matters is that it's a thing, right? There are million dollar tournaments for DotA and League of Legends. They even did a loving piece about it on Real Sports. We can cringe, but it's real, and there's a very vibrant, active community around it. The question isn't necessarily, "Is there a way to do this that isn't nearly as stupid as The Wizard?" It's "Do I have anything to say about this?" And if you do. If you say it through a strong plot / universe / whatever, maybe the reader will buy into the concept, maybe they'll think it's stupid. Say it through strong characters, and there's a lot less to argue against. EDIT: I feel compelled to list examples. Consider Reggie Dunlop and the Hanson Brothers in Slap Shot. Paul Crewe in The Longest Yard. Ricky Vaughn in Major League, how you felt like you wanted to punch the air when "Wild Thing" kicked up during the last game, and when Roger Dorn, knowing full well that Vaughn had hosed his wife last night, simply told him to "Strike that MOTHERFUCKER out." If you didn't get giddy during that scene, I can point you to at least five people who did. Conversely, try to name three characters in any video-game focused movie without checking IMDb. It's an obvious lesson but it bears repeating: Character is King. If you go for this, do it because you think you can plug some interesting characters into it. DivisionPost fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 08:18
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he's kind of an old dude, and my mom's friend pretty much only remembers Pong, so they're like, "Oi, those young whippersnappers love the vidya games" and all I kept thinking was, "Yes, but every single video game-related movie has been horrible..."
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DivisionPost posted:If you do decide to take a crack at it? Your best bet would be to just focus on the human element. Don't try to be cool, don't overdo it on the slang, and don't try to push "professional gaming" as "the next big thing." That's a very good point. I was considering doing it mockumentary style a la Best in Show. I love mockumentaries myself--Spinal Tap is so loving funny I can't even stand it, and Best in Show is right up there ("IT'S A BEE! THAT'S NOT A BEE!")--and I thought a mockumentary could still have lovable characters and be accurate to the source, but also have that added benefit of being a little cynical for an audience of people jaded by movies of and about video games.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:33
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Not Scott Pilgrim.
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Jan 22, 2014 09:00
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Haymaker_Betty posted:That's a very good point. That could totally work, but I'd do my research first. I'm poo poo at research so I couldn't tell you where to begin; maybe if you can track down that Real Sports segment, get a quick overview of what a pro-gaming career involves? If you want a glimpse at the darker (goonier) side, look into a guy named -- god help me I'm gonna gently caress up the spelling -- Aris Baktahnians. The short version is that he's a fat bearded gently caress who regularly competed (competes?) in fighting game tournaments. A couple of years ago he defended the use of misogynistic language during matches over a tournament livestream, basically calling pro-gaming a man's dominion and demanding that female competitors deal with it. Whatever you find yourself looking at, the goal would be to figure out the appeal of this community and all its little idiosyncrasies. That'll help you pull together various characterizations and motivations and figure out where you want to go with this overall; what you admire, what you despise, what's worth cracking jokes over, what you want to take seriously. Keep your mind open and see if you can find a story worth telling.
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Jan 22, 2014 09:11
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There was one goon who was the manager/coach for a professional eSports team last year. I can't remember who it was but if you go to the League of Legends thread and asked around you should probably be able to find him to ask some stuff about the scene.
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Jan 22, 2014 12:44
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There's so much fantastic advice in this thread and, of course, I need even more of it. I'm currently in the middle of writing a spec pilot for a contemporary fantasy drama series I want to pitch to a few friends. After finishing my first draft of the pilot, I'm also going to try my hand at doing a couple of other sci-fi/horror drama specs for fellowship deadlines. I have repped friends in the industry in LA who might be able to give me a leg up when I finally have something worth showing. I also have four fully fleshed out treatments/outlines for feature-length screenplays I want to write, complete with beat sheets and act analyses. My questions pertain to both the technical writing side and the career side: 1) I'm under the impression that you have to write a "Previously on..." section prior to the beginning of the actual TV spec script (this pilot is my first attempt). I have a few TV script PDFs I'm reading, but I haven't seen an example of this yet. Does anyone have one? 2) My one finished fantasy screenplay comes from a senior class project that I did for college 8 years ago. I got some praise for it from my professor, but I always thought it was garbage. Is it worth retooling it for the sake of having another calling card? 3) I've been living in NYC for 8 years and have not been able to get a job in the biz in any sort of capacity, despite two internships, plenty of references, and ample evidence that I'm a competent worker. At 30, is it realistic to assume that I can move to LA and sell something? Is it possible to write remotely and commute to LA for pitch meetings/work when and if I win it? Ideally, I'd like to either work my way up from writer's assistant on a sci-fi drama to staff writer or sell a screenplay through my friends. Any and all advice would be very much appreciated.
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Jan 22, 2014 16:46
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DivisionPost posted:That could totally work, but I'd do my research first. I'm poo poo at research so I couldn't tell you where to begin; maybe if you can track down that Real Sports segment, get a quick overview of what a pro-gaming career involves? If you want a glimpse at the darker (goonier) side, look into a guy named -- god help me I'm gonna gently caress up the spelling -- Aris Baktahnians. The short version is that he's a fat bearded gently caress who regularly competed (competes?) in fighting game tournaments. A couple of years ago he defended the use of misogynistic language during matches over a tournament livestream, basically calling pro-gaming a man's dominion and demanding that female competitors deal with it. Angry Walrus posted:There was one goon who was the manager/coach for a professional eSports team last year. I can't remember who it was but if you go to the League of Legends thread and asked around you should probably be able to find him to ask some stuff about the scene. That's awesome advice, from both of you. I was gonna watch a couple Mockumentaries first, find out what's good about them--tone, pacing, that kind of poo poo. Then I was gonna watch a couple of the tournaments and a 60 Minutes segment on pro. gaming. I know enough about it, sadly, to get started--mostly I just wanted to write characters who are broken in some way, because they spend all their time playing this game, and one of them will figure out, "Oh holy poo poo, I'm ruining my family and my life with my stupid loving obsession," but s/he'll still like and play games, just not professionally, which they will start to see is kind of pointless, because it doesn't benefit them in any way other than prize money, which is negligible. Something like that. I've only been thinking about it for three days, and I also have other projects to work on--I'm a burgeoning erotica author on Amazon KDP, and that's actually just starting to be A Thing in my life so I'd like to see where it goes. Plus, erotica is WAY easier to write well than a movie script...
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Jan 22, 2014 17:16
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Gray Ghost posted:There's so much fantastic advice in this thread and, of course, I need even more of it. 1) No. You wouldn't do that in a spec of an existing show, and you definitely don't do it on a pilot. 2) Yes-ish. It's definitely important to have as many writing samples as possible, but only if they're good. So it depends on if it's actually trash, and how much of your time it would take to salvage it. PS If you do go this route, don't date it as 8 years ago. 3) Can you move to LA at 30 and eventually sell something? Yes. I know someone who moved here at 30, started as a night PA, and just sold her first TV show to a major network in her mid-40s. I also know people who have gotten staffed within weeks of moving here. Commuting for pitches is generally a bad idea. Only established writers really can afford that luxury. You generally won't be able to secure pitches without a lot of networking, which you won't be able to do out of town.
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Jan 22, 2014 17:36
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Zypher posted:1) No. You wouldn't do that in a spec of an existing show, and you definitely don't do it on a pilot. This is fantastically helpful. Thanks!
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Jan 22, 2014 20:58
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Okay so quick update: I'm not writing this movie for them. I literally do not care anymore. The plot this dude wants for the film--he wants me to just write the plot he's decided I should write, which is... ugh--is so terrible I can't even stand it. He wants a heist movie, in which 6 Korean-American students from MIT join the CIA and then overthrow Kim Jong Un by pulling off this big scam or heist that makes Un look bad so the people of N. Korea get angry and toss him out on his rear end, and then everyone goes back to America for medals and ice cream. Ayup. I could go into why I think that movie is bad, but he would think I'm talking out of my rear end since I'm 26, and he kept opining about how stupid the "28-year-old kid" Un is, which I don't think he realized was insulting to me. Also he didn't seem to think my Masters in writing, my Bachelors in writing, and my tendency to, you know, read books (he never reads) and go to movies had any bearing on whether or not I knew a good movie when I saw one. Finger on the pulse of a dead guy, apparently. I suppose when movie makers get together and do opinion polls from young people they then shred them because young people are stupid. Sorry, I'm feeling bitter and kind of angry at the moment. But who the gently caress cares! I still gots my porn.
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Jan 23, 2014 05:57
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If you wanted to make it any better make it a musical. Also Un should have the mannerisms of Jeff Goldblum or just be Goldblum. Good luck on it, sounds like Hell.
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Jan 23, 2014 06:01
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Haymaker_Betty posted:Okay so quick update: ...but you really don't have to. Holy gently caress that's terrible. I expect some people are going to tell you that you should expect to eat some poo poo as you try to build a career, and they're not wrong, but don't think you didn't do the right thing here. If nothing else, there's no sense wasting months of your life on a pitch that you're not feeling. Just keep doing your thing and find other ways to put yourself out there. At the very least you're doing better than most people are. ...Jesus. Literally overthrowing Kim Jon Un. Couldn't just dig up Val Verde, it had to be North Korea. loving Jesus. I bet his favorite movie is The Experts. I bet he backed (or would have backed) the Atlas Shrugged Part III Kickstarter. Yes, they needed at least three movies to adapt Atlas Shrugged. Yes, the adaptation of The Objectivist Bible is being funded by Kickstarter.
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Jan 23, 2014 06:10
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Haymaker_Betty posted:The plot this dude wants for the film--he wants me to just write the plot he's decided I should write, which is... ugh--is so terrible I can't even stand it. He wants a heist movie, in which 6 Korean-American students from MIT join the CIA and then overthrow Kim Jong Un by pulling off this big scam or heist that makes Un look bad so the people of N. Korea get angry and toss him out on his rear end, and then everyone goes back to America for medals and ice cream. Ayup. You should have named your price and banged that poo poo out in a week because there's zero chance he'll ever get that off the ground. "yeah, um, i got this great movie idea. it's kinda like oceans eleven but with 6 asians kids and the scam is so crazy that it inspires the North Koreans to topple their own government and, in the end, these six NERDS become national heroes! ... 20 million please" Seriously, I would have been sitting in that room with the biggest smile on my face. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 06:39
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Yeah. Cash in advance, we split it between the thread and write it WriterDuet from this Saturday to this Sunday.
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Jan 23, 2014 09:11
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Situation reminds me of the blog post below and the older post he links to within the blog: http://gointothestory.blcklst.com/2013/01/the-business-of-screenwriting-sometimes-you-just-have-to-say-yes-even-to-crap-projects.html
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Jan 23, 2014 09:33
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This has all cheered me up enormously. I was really getting down on myself. He wasn't going to pay me up front, only if it sold, it turned out. My mom's friend is super pissed at her husband, because she feels like he wasn't up front with me. I hope I haven't caused a rift--I doubt it, though, I think she just misunderstood him. What a dweeb. And as for hammering it out, I honestly cannot even imagine how I would begin to write that. Like, he wanted Comic-Con and Halo 4 in there, because he wanted to attract the "nerds" and also have the kids be from Stanford and MIT, because "people from Stanford who are old will want to see it." Are you loving kidding me? He also kept calling Un a "stupid 28-year-old" and kept emphasizing how young he was, like that had so much more to do with how hosed up he is than literally everything else about his life and upbringing. I'm 26. I'm not sure he didn't know how much he was insulting me in the course of our conversation. My mom's friend is actually buddy-buddy with a lady from Paramount, and insists we should make the good movie plot I had all ready for him, behind his back, but I'm super reticent to do business at all with her because 1) she's a friend and 2) she's my mother's ONLY friend.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:33
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Haymaker_Betty posted:He wasn't going to pay me up front, only if it sold, it turned out. This is every idea man/bullshitter ever. Don't work on something for free unless it's a passion project for yourself or a spec you can show others. Haymaker_Betty posted:And as for hammering it out, I honestly cannot even imagine how I would begin to write that. Like, he wanted Comic-Con and Halo 4 in there, because he wanted to attract the "nerds" and also have the kids be from Stanford and MIT, because "people from Stanford who are old will want to see it." I'd cobble together some poo poo like the MIT team went to Comic-Con to play in a Halo 4 tournament and it turned out to be a CIA recruitment tool to infiltrate some secret global underground video game tournament North Korea's putting on and stuff happens  somebody defects Tense final round. America wins. Angry Kim Jong challenges the leader to a match. Trickery. But somehow our hero overcomes and wins again. North Koreans riot at the news. Nerds are national heroes FADE OUTNone of it would matter because the guy's never seen a script before and there's no chance he could get the funding together.
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Jan 23, 2014 23:14
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Contracts. Make sure its in writing in some form. It sounds like bullshit. Be careful
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Jan 24, 2014 04:53
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Call Me Charlie posted:This is every idea man/bullshitter ever. Don't work on something for free unless it's a passion project for yourself or a spec you can show others. That's actually not far from the plot of the comedy version I tried to sell him on, because a serious version of that movie is not something I could ever imagine writing, and even a comedy would probably end up just coming across as racist. When he said he wanted it to be about video game competitions, I had the mockumentary idea, and then later came up with a sci-fi plot about S. Korean (this was back when I knew, at least, he wanted Koreans in it--why, I do not know, I think he just associates them with video games) going to an underground tourney where the game hurts you. There was more to it than that, and I'm actually thinking about writing it as a sci-fi book, so some good came out of the whole thing.
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Jan 24, 2014 07:30
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Pay on sale is garbage. You know that deep down.
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Jan 24, 2014 08:14
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Golden Bee posted:Pay on sale is garbage. You know that deep down. I know that on the surface. I just thought that wasn't the case. And then I talked to him. It seemed like one of those, "HEY, we're all gonna be rich" deals, and my mom's friend was not aware he wasn't paying up front either, so like I said she's a little... upset with him.
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Jan 24, 2014 18:34
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Haymaker_Betty posted:...my mom's friend was not aware he wasn't paying up front either, so like I said she's a little... upset with him. Hey, you mentioned feeling guilty about this earlier ("I hope I haven't caused a rift")? Don't. The way I see it, you're a craftsman. Like any craftsman, if you're commissioned for a work, you should expect to be paid for the time and effort that your contractor cannot expend himself. That's how his beloved capitalism works (again, I can't help but see this guy as anything other than a Randian douche), and it's HIS fault for not getting that. Your mother's friend is pissed at her husband for trying to exploit a cherished friendship, not because you saw through it and told him to gently caress off. If you're still carrying that weight, drop it. DivisionPost fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 19:32
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DivisionPost posted:Hey, you mentioned feeling guilty about this earlier ("I hope I haven't caused a rift")? Don't. The way I see it, you're a craftsman. Like any craftsman, if you're commissioned for a work, you should expect to be paid for the time and effort that your contractor cannot expend himself. That's how his beloved capitalism works (again, I can't help but see this guy as anything other than a Randian douche), and it's HIS fault for not getting that. I'm trying to. Turns out they were going to pay me $1000 for labor, and then I'd get money if the movie was made into something. Which wouldn't happen because oh my GOD who would buy that?
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Jan 24, 2014 19:45
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Haymaker_Betty posted:I'm trying to. Turns out they were going to pay me $1000 for labor, and then I'd get money if the movie was made into something. Take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt. I'm not in the trenches. I invite anyone who is to come in, laugh me out of this thread, and set the record straight. Even at a thousand dollars I'd still say you were getting shorted for labor. I mean, let's look at it from a pure labor standpoint: Let's assume this script takes you three months to complete between all your drafts, and you work at it 4 hours a day, including weekends. 90 days X 4 hours per day = 360 hours. 360 X $7.25 aka current federal minimum wage = $2,610 In contrast, $1,000 / 360 hours = roughly $2.78 an hour. So from a pure labor standpoint, any offer of one thousand + additional payment on sale should be answered with "Kiss me." (Of course, that's for three months of work: run the numbers for 30 days as opposed to 90 and $1K becomes a generous offer.) But of course, we're not paid by the hour, we're paid for our product. And if he's looking to raise $20M for his movie...well, I'm REASONABLY sure that if you look at any breakdowns of similarly budgeted movies, initial script expenses would fall into the low five figures. So if he wants to make a $20M movie, then it's a matter of putting his money where his mouth is and being willing to buy a script for a $20M movie. The price may vary depending on the quality of the script, but most anything short of wiping your rear end on 90 sheets of printer paper is going to be worth more than a grand. Granted, there's the added complication that he's a friend of the family, but...this is why you don't do business with friends. DivisionPost fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 20:23
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Oh he isn't MY friend, he's my mother's friend's husband. I mean, I love my mother's friend, and she's totally awesome, but her husband is kind of a dillhole. Yeah, there's no way I'm gonna do it. gently caress that. I will make money off my porn--I wanna debase myself on my own terms, dammit! 
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Jan 24, 2014 21:00
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Haymaker_Betty posted:I'm trying to. Turns out they were going to pay me $1000 for labor, and then I'd get money if the movie was made into something. The Screenwriters Guild minimum payment for a screenplay in the US is just under $70,000. That's before it even gets made.
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Jan 24, 2014 23:53
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That sounds awesome. I should just email scripts to them, every day, no matter how bad they are, in the hopes that they, like my old boss, get annoyed and buy one. I just asked him for a job every day, I didn't send him scripts. And he wasn't annoyed. We were buddies by that point. So it's really nothing like that, but whatever. I've now spent more space explaining it. EDIT: I just wanna be clear: if I was getting paid, up front, $70,000, I would totally write that movie. I'd do it for $20,000. It'd be a massive tax write-off, 'cause I'd just shove it at my student loans. I just didn't want anyone to think I was THAT principled. Movie's not gonna get made, my conscience is clear, and I got paid real money for hard, skilled labor. don longjohns fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 03:22
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Haymaker_Betty posted:That sounds awesome. I should just email scripts to them, every day, no matter how bad they are, in the hopes that they, like my old boss, get annoyed and buy one. They don't buy scripts, they're a union of professional writers.
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Jan 26, 2014 08:31
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Max22 posted:They don't buy scripts, they're a union of professional writers. I am not even remotely involved in making films, ever- not even Drama club. I totally did not know that. I feel really dumb 
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Jan 27, 2014 00:44
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Haymaker_Betty posted:I am not even remotely involved in making films, ever- not even Drama club. I totally did not know that. I feel really dumb Haha, and you don't get that rate until you're a member or write for a production company that's a signatory company.
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Jan 27, 2014 01:33
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Anybody else enter BlueCat? Analyses went out today and the finalists are announced tomorrow. I've never entered before so I wanted to know if someone had entered before and if my analysis was typical.
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Feb 1, 2014 00:16
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Haymaker_Betty posted:My mom's friend is actually buddy-buddy with a lady from Paramount, and insists we should make the good movie plot I had all ready for him, behind his back, but I'm super reticent to do business at all with her because 1) she's a friend and 2) she's my mother's ONLY friend. Angry Walrus posted:There was one goon who was the manager/coach for a professional eSports team last year. I can't remember who it was but if you go to the League of Legends thread and asked around you should probably be able to find him to ask some stuff about the scene. If you're going to go forward with this thing, I'd be happy to answer questions. Fair warning, this is assuming that your idea isn't too insanely anti-esports - poking fun at it and laughing at some of the more ridiculous parts at it is good and all, but if the script is just saying how pointless and terrible the entire industry is, I don't really see myself see myself helping with that. I was a team manager of a StarCraft 2 team and was in charge of the StarCraft 2 division for the IGN Pro League from its founding until mid 2012.
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Feb 2, 2014 08:32
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That script's off the table. Although I finally found a director for a mini I've been working on...and have a bit of cash to pay the actors and 1 crewperson.
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Feb 3, 2014 19:19
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So, I finished the first draft of my feature-length screenplay here the other day. The writing process was honestly surprisingly painless once I got to the actual screenplay portion. Now for the editing. I am simultaneously looking forward to and dreading that whole affair.
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Feb 16, 2014 18:21
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Hey fellow screenwriting goons, I recently started working on a new screenplay and I like it. However the one thing that I don't like it is the log line. Do you all think that you could help me with it. Talk Nerdy to Me: When a quite bookworm gets the chance to get help his cheerleader crush do better in school, all hell breaks loose when her ex-boyfriend captain of the water polo finds out his real intentions. Is there any way to improve it or is it somewhat fine.
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Mar 6, 2014 03:56
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Quiet not quite
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Mar 6, 2014 04:02
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Phone posting -- I'd also consider just simplifying to "...when her jealous ex-boyfriend finds out." I prefer sleeker log lines, and him playing water polo isn't gonna make or break any's decision to read the script.
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Mar 6, 2014 04:08
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You're using two "whens", which is really awkward, so I'd suggest something like "A quiet bookworm gets the chance to get help his cheerleader crush do better in school, but all hell breaks loose when her jealous ex-boyfriend finds out his real intentions", though that's still burying the lead.
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Mar 6, 2014 04:11
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Good point Magic. You could change the structure to something like: A quiet bookworm suffers a jealous ex-boyfriend's wrath when he tries to help his cheerleader crush do better in school. But it still needs to be plus-ed a bit to make clear it's the bookworms crush not the ex-boyfriends crush.
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Mar 6, 2014 04:21
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Zypher posted:Good point Magic. How about this: A quiet bookworm agrees to tutor his cheerleader crush, but suffers the wrath of her aggressive ex-boyfriend. Suggests the ex's jealous motivations AND his athletic background, and draws a clear conflict of personalities between protagonist and antagonist.
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Mar 6, 2014 04:56
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