Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Desty posted:

no no you see it is actually all a long term plan to destabilize petty frail humanity on the part of the eti and :shrek:

Basically the more I look at EP the more irate I get that it's got all the lovecraft-esque poo poo in it. Somehow 90% of the species dying due to hubris and large portions of the remains killing each other for money/fame only now there's no consequences for that kind of behavior other than temporary inconvenience is not existentially horrible enough, so let's have some big fuckin' tentacle god what actually did the whole thing.

I guess I agree, because I never even mentioned it in my 18 month EP campaign. But really, it's just there as an option. It's so vague that it can be excised from the game without even leaving a mark.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Flavivirus
Dec 14, 2011

The next stage of evolution.

sebmojo posted:

I guess I agree, because I never even mentioned it in my 18 month EP campaign. But really, it's just there as an option. It's so vague that it can be excised from the game without even leaving a mark.

Yeah, I always read that section as 'If we were running our own Eclipse Phase campaign, this is what would be behind the TITANs if it ever mattered. Feel free to make up your own though!' It's just there as a suggestion in case you want to add a bunch of cosmic horror to your game.

Big Hubris
Mar 8, 2011


Ettin posted:

The ETI owns, sorry you don't like the Data Overmind :getin:

Firewall, The Fall, and exsurgent outbreaks are the core of the game. The ETI stops obnoxious cliches from ruining them.

Negative Entropy
Nov 30, 2009

Im wanting to run a game, but im struggling to come up with a plausible x-threat for the players to chase after. Everything either feels too localised that it doesnt constitute a threat to all of humanity, or too doomsday that the players wouldnt be able to avert the inevitable.

And my first read of the EP core book, i never even noticed the part about the ETI, the whole concept of hard-takeoff and the human universe made sense, on another flip through the ETI and aliens seems to be a bit stapled onto the side.

Grim
Sep 11, 2003

Grimey Drawer
The ETI are removed from the actual running of Eclipse Phase but I feel like they are required for me to make sense of everything - the TITANs didn't create remote Pandora Gates and can't be responsible for why Transhumanity don't run into intelligent Aliens all over the place.

I feel like the Factors should be way more of a big deal to everyone than we see in the fiction - actual loving Aliens who seems to have a much better understanding of the state of the galaxy; loving madness!

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Grim posted:

I feel like the Factors should be way more of a big deal to everyone than we see in the fiction - actual loving Aliens who seems to have a much better understanding of the state of the galaxy; loving madness!

As I understand, part of the reason the Factors aren't as big of a deal is that they swooped in basically right after the Fall, so everyone was still too dazed and shocked to really get awed by it. After all this other poo poo going down, you add "OH YEAH, ALIENS" and people's response was broadly "SURE WHY THE gently caress NOT, ADD THAT TO THE LIST." As I recall, the Factors also don't really hang around much - it's not a space opera where they're just chillin', they come by very rarely for whatever sort of limited talks and trade they have with governments, and then gently caress off again to wherever they're coming from.

FutureVillainBand
Feb 21, 2013

Kommando posted:

Im wanting to run a game, but im struggling to come up with a plausible x-threat for the players to chase after. Everything either feels too localised that it doesnt constitute a threat to all of humanity, or too doomsday that the players wouldnt be able to avert the inevitable.

And my first read of the EP core book, i never even noticed the part about the ETI, the whole concept of hard-takeoff and the human universe made sense, on another flip through the ETI and aliens seems to be a bit stapled onto the side.

I'd suggest avoiding big, existential threats. Run it as a combination of Fringe and Call of Cthulhu, where instead of the Great Old Ones and unknowable alien races, it's the TITANS and their leavings.

So somebody commits the perfect crime, by managing to infiltrate a sealed vault with [x] different reasons why nobody should be able to crack it. Firewall wants to know why this happened because if this vault can be breached, then nothing in the solar system is safe. Investigation reveals that Somebody is using TITAN-tech to create a device which allows living beings to phase through matter. (Cue discussion of reality being a hologram, and puzzling about whether EP's setting isn't just some massive simulspace.) The problem could be, a) the tech has a nasty effect on living beings, so the people using it are slowly changing into something different; b) maybe the subspace that the thieves cut through is infested with some kind of parasite or draws the attention of surviving TITANS, or whatever, or c)the thing works by screwing with space-time, such that you get all sorts of crazy phenomena that are totally unhealthy for an outer-space habitat one foot away from total disaster and the death of all life-forms aboard. Maybe the PCs stop the thief, maybe they get the tech, whatever.

Later, another piece of tech appears, this one just as problematic, maybe some kind of memetic linguistic virus. And another, this time a green-goo nanodevice that doesn't destroy, but infects and subverts and adapts. And then something else, each problem escalating. Where is this TITAN technology coming from? Is somebody using stuff captured from Earth? Has somebody created their own singularity-leaping AGI? Do they have a tame/captured/lobotomized TITAN?

To me, an existential threat doesn't have to be big -- life is precarious enough in EP that it just has to be dangerous and destabilizing.

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

Kommando posted:

Im wanting to run a game, but im struggling to come up with a plausible x-threat for the players to chase after. Everything either feels too localised that it doesnt constitute a threat to all of humanity, or too doomsday that the players wouldnt be able to avert the inevitable.

And my first read of the EP core book, i never even noticed the part about the ETI, the whole concept of hard-takeoff and the human universe made sense, on another flip through the ETI and aliens seems to be a bit stapled onto the side.

I would suggest reading Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety by Eric Schlosser. It's partly about an accident at a nuclear missile silo in Arkansas, but also about the United States' (and to a lesser extent the Soviet Union's) nuclear deterrence and how it was structured and controlled. I think it will give you some ideas about how a doomsday threat can still have small, localized triggers. Richard Preston's The Demon in the Freezer is another good one in this regard, dealing with biological weapons.

The thing to keep in mind is that complex systems can get into feedback loops that exponentially raise the threat very, very quickly. When you design a local threat, think about how something going wrong on a small scale might trigger additional actions. If a missile explodes during fueling in a silo in Kazakhstan (a very real possibility), and a spy satellite misinterprets the image as a launch, all of a sudden you have the US President getting handed a SIOP that says "launch on warning" - meaning that if you even think you're being attacked or about to be attacked, you launch everything because you don't get a second chance, and then the world ends. All because some half-trained technician with poorly fitting gloves dropped a wrench and put a dime sized hole in the skin of a missile in the rear end-end of Central Asia all of thirty-five minutes ago.

Or just look at the beginning of the Great War. There are a number of really excellent books that have just come out given the hundred year anniversary. The War That Ended Peace: The Road to 1914 by Margaret MacMillan and Catastrophe 1914: Europe Goes to War by Max Hastings, and to a lesser extent 1914 by Paul Ham, all explore the start of war, which is a very difficult topic to grapple with. It's hard to come up with a better example of what you want - a small, local conspiracy that, because of the environment, expanded into a massive catastrophe.

Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 12, 2014

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.

Dammit Who? posted:

The difference between hypercorps and Shadowrun-style megacorps is supposed to be that hypercorps don't have or need all the stuff that megacorps do. Like, compare Ares Macrotechnology and a hypothetical HyperAres. I don't actually remember a lot about Shadowrun's history so let's posit that Ares is a powerful multinational that designs, manufactures and sells arms both retail and wholesale and that's all they do, no weird biotech side projects or whatever. What do they need to do all that?

Well, they need scientists and engineers to design new weapons. They need buildings for those people to work in, and round-the-clock heavy duty external security to keep those people from being forcibly re-employed. They need plumbing and electricity and HVAC guys, and someone to clear the toxic spirits out of the crapper. They need internal security to vet all the people I just mentioned. They need managers to manage all these people. They need managers to manage the managers. They need human resources departments to create unified policies for the managers who manage the managers. They need whole different buildings for all these manager-managing-managers to work in.

Then they need manufacturing and sales divisions, with the same building-maintenance-security-manager resource outlay. They need huge chains of factories and workers to run them. They need local sales branches to react to events on the ground faster than global HQ. They need a gripload of programmers salted throughout the whole enterprise to handle the internal networks, create data processing programs, write/maintain/defend Ares' Grid presence, and so on. They need even more data entry wageslaves to give those data processing programs something to work on. They need dormitories and other living spaces for all these people, they need internal propaganda to keep the salarymen loyal...

Clearly, the majority of Ares' operation isn't working on their core mission, but is tied up in the vast amounts of infrastructure you need in order to let the relatively small number of useful assets actually do their job. Ares employs hundreds of thousands if not literal millions of people, but 95% of them are working to protect and facilitate the valuable 5%.

Compare that to HyperAres. The vast majority of this infrastructure is taken care of by virtue of everyone involved being transhuman. They don't need middle management of any kind, or dedicated physical plant staff, or even any kind of office. They've got muses and forks to handle personal logistics. They don't have battalions of troops; they'll have a small core of experienced soldiers, a few more infomorphs stuffed in wardrone bodies and told "shoot anyone who comes through that door without the proper ID", and a large pool of reserve contractors they hired for 'just-in-time' security services. They don't have huge internal supply chains - they'll have cornucopia machines, mining drone fleets overseen by a few AIs or infomorph indents, and import the rest. A hypercorp would have the same kind of power as a megacorp (if not more, since they've outright replaced the government in places), but they'd be a straight-up small business by our standards.

Like, the thing that even EP itself forgets sometimes is that a bit under 90% of the modern human population died permanently during the TITAN uprisings, and most of the ones who survived are computer ghosts. The much smaller scale and phenomenal advances in automation are why the hypercorps and whatnot haven't snapped up the huge reserve army of labor represented by the infugees. They've already filled demand and don't need to grow in the same way old capitalist structures did - they don't have anything for those guys to do.

I just want to say that I agree with this guy's viewpoint far more than the others posted in this thread. If you're struggling with making your hypercorps 'lean', then you need to think about how functional AI & robotics, time acceleration, a massive population of skilled and educated infomorphs desperate for work, and nanofabrication would affect the structure of an efficient business. Replace all the physical assets a regular corporation would have with resources that can be on melted down and repurposed within days, and all the labor with either automation or contract work. You're left with upper management who meet and work virtually and a scattering of physical assets that might be hard to make and whatever labor that can't yet be replaced.

For example, in a recent campaign I ran the players wanted to track a fugitive by investigating cabs they took. There were three cab companies, two were run by the same individual, none of them had ANY non-contracted employees other than the CEO/owner, all the cabs were run by AI, purchased or rented from another corp with nanofabrication & manufactured on standardized templates, and their various systems like scheduling, security, etc were created by 100% contracted infomorph labor. Even the secretary screening the CEOs' calls were actually fairly advanced muses.

Where this structure breaks down a bit are places where the hypercorps need human experts on-scene, with physical assets that can't be easily nanofabricated (like spaceships, specialist laboratories), when they have to deal with traditionalists, or when they create/present things for prestige or politics instead of for profit, just to make a small list.

InfiniteJesters
Jan 26, 2012
I learned something today. This is why I love this thread and this game!

Gentleman Owl
Apr 29, 2013

Kai Tave posted:

I guess there are space zombies too, though honestly in a setting like Eclipse Phase you don't really need some sort of cthonic space entity to have those, they'd probably be in there anyway.

Depending on your style of zombie, all you'd really need is a skilled psychosurgeon with a lot of free time and access to a sleeving facility. Rip out most of the higher brain functions, enhance aggression and hunger, imprint high melee and freerunning/free fall skills, and you've got a pretty passable "zombie" even before any exotic morph mods are implemented. Shove the ego into as many morphs as you can and you've got a zombie outbreak that can rack up a pretty high initial bodycount before it gets put down (either due to excessive force or the imprinted skills decay). You could even have a new style of zombie where they can parkour with a Freerunning of 60.

I wouldn't be surprised if a really extreme Firewall cell didn't do just that at one point to cover up an actual exsurgent outbreak. "No, of course they weren't actually zombies, aha haaaa, just the work of a deranged doctor!"

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Kommando posted:

Im wanting to run a game, but im struggling to come up with a plausible x-threat for the players to chase after. Everything either feels too localised that it doesnt constitute a threat to all of humanity, or too doomsday that the players wouldnt be able to avert the inevitable.

And my first read of the EP core book, i never even noticed the part about the ETI, the whole concept of hard-takeoff and the human universe made sense, on another flip through the ETI and aliens seems to be a bit stapled onto the side.

I ran my game as an exercise in solar system murder-tourism - pick some cool places to have adventures then send the players there. Venus has floating habitats 40 miles up? AWESOME LET'S ARRANGE A FISTFIGHT ON TOP OF ONE.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I polled my group to get an idea of where they want to go and what sorts of themes they want to deal with. They're going gatecrashing. :D

e: Here's a blank poll, in case anyone wants to use it.

Dareon fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Mar 14, 2014

xiw
Sep 25, 2011

i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum

Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner

sebmojo posted:

I ran my game as an exercise in solar system murder-tourism - pick some cool places to have adventures then send the players there. Venus has floating habitats 40 miles up? AWESOME LET'S ARRANGE A FISTFIGHT ON TOP OF ONE.

Yeah this was pretty much my scheme. Pick a facet of the setting, wrap an adventure around it to demonstrate it, move on. That starship that's 24 days off by farcaster and having a huge leaving-the-solar-system party? Gotta attend that!

Negative Entropy
Nov 30, 2009

Dareon posted:

I polled my group to get an idea of where they want to go and what sorts of themes they want to deal with. They're going gatecrashing. :D

e: Here's a blank poll, in case anyone wants to use it.

What the hell is Points North?

InfiniteJesters
Jan 26, 2012

Dareon posted:

I polled my group to get an idea of where they want to go and what sorts of themes they want to deal with. They're going gatecrashing. :D

e: Here's a blank poll, in case anyone wants to use it.

Best. Spreadsheet. Ever.

Especially since you decided Momo Von Satan was a selling point in and of herself. :D

The Meat Dimension
Mar 29, 2010

Gravy Boat 2k

Kommando posted:

What the hell is Points North?

I'm guessing that's Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto.

Strange Matter
Oct 6, 2009

Ask me about Genocide
I've been reading this thread on and off, and I have to ask: has anyone crossed referenced Eclipse Phase with Hannu Rajaneimi's The Quantum Thief and The Fractal Prince? I haven't seen these books mentioned in this thread but the universe that he describes in his books matches very closely what's described in Eclipse Phase, so anyone running a game would do well to check the books out for ideas.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I've skimmed through Eclipse Phase in the past but I'm only now reading through it. It strikes me as one of those brilliant settings that I despair of getting anyone to play. (Except, I suppose, PBP games where everyone already knows the score.) When I bought Shadowrun 4e, I agreed with the AR concept, but I figured I'd be at a loss to get my players to actually absorb the way that even a simple convenience store would now be handling almost everything with AR, even the signage. I don't expect the people I'm used to playing with offline to really be able to absorb the conceits of the Eclipse Phase setting and act accordingly.

There are things I struggle with myself--how do you guys run games around ubiquitous surveillance, for example? That's a bigger sticking point with me than resleeving, bizarre morphs, or even forks.

apostateCourier
Oct 9, 2012


Halloween Jack posted:

I've skimmed through Eclipse Phase in the past but I'm only now reading through it. It strikes me as one of those brilliant settings that I despair of getting anyone to play. (Except, I suppose, PBP games where everyone already knows the score.) When I bought Shadowrun 4e, I agreed with the AR concept, but I figured I'd be at a loss to get my players to actually absorb the way that even a simple convenience store would now be handling almost everything with AR, even the signage. I don't expect the people I'm used to playing with offline to really be able to absorb the conceits of the Eclipse Phase setting and act accordingly.

There are things I struggle with myself--how do you guys run games around ubiquitous surveillance, for example? That's a bigger sticking point with me than resleeving, bizarre morphs, or even forks.

The thing about surveillance being everywhere all the time is that unless something noteworthy happens at a specific time, no one is going to notice. There's too much data. For the rest, there are ways to get around it. Bribe the right people, destroy cameras, pipe in a loop, etc.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

Also if you really want a more low key, not so gonzo part of the setting the Jovians would be a good spot since they avoid all the crazy super fringe tech the setting has. Also tends to limit morphs and some of the crazier equipment at all times too.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Kommando posted:

What the hell is Points North?

The really cold poo poo. Neptune, Uranus, Pluto, the Oort Cloud. Brinker habs. If the terminology is what's giving you trouble, I'm pretty sure it's train conductor lingo, "Train now departing for West Wickfordsham, Gottlesfont-on-Dane and all points north."

e:

Halloween Jack posted:

I've skimmed through Eclipse Phase in the past but I'm only now reading through it. It strikes me as one of those brilliant settings that I despair of getting anyone to play. (Except, I suppose, PBP games where everyone already knows the score.) When I bought Shadowrun 4e, I agreed with the AR concept, but I figured I'd be at a loss to get my players to actually absorb the way that even a simple convenience store would now be handling almost everything with AR, even the signage. I don't expect the people I'm used to playing with offline to really be able to absorb the conceits of the Eclipse Phase setting and act accordingly.

There are things I struggle with myself--how do you guys run games around ubiquitous surveillance, for example? That's a bigger sticking point with me than resleeving, bizarre morphs, or even forks.

The biggest hurdle with AR displays is that depending on how your eyes are set up, you may not be seeing the same thing everyone else does. Like, I've had the idea for an encoded AR layer for essentially hobo code: "Unsecured maker", "Surveillance blind spot", "Smart dogs", etc. One of the few quibbles I have with the Know Evil podcast was when one of the PCs read something off an NPC's entoptic display. (And also that the GM kept pronouncing it "entropic")

Ubiquitous surveillance means that long-term stealth comes down to more than just an Infiltration check. Much like in Shadowrun where you'd have a Decker looping security cameras and deactivating laser grids for the other runners, here you need to deactivate camera spimes, as well as other, more esoteric sensors. If a hyperCEO's office has lights set up to respond to body heat, you need to disable those or remove the log files showing them activating. And an investigator could access your own vacsuit's telemetry logs to reveal it was stowed safely in Airlock B when you claim to have been out collecting samples.

Naturally these can all be used in either direction, players could either be tracked in a myriad of indirect ways, or track someone in a myriad of indirect ways. Of course, if you have too many bad guys track them down by the CO2 records of the air scrubbers in their hallways, they'll get paranoid about wiping every spime they see and EMPing the ones they don't, so either use it sparingly or use it constantly, depending on the mood you want.

Dareon fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Mar 19, 2014

clockworkjoe
May 31, 2000

Rolled a 1 on the random encounter table, didn't you?
The books Panopticon and Transhuman both have advice for EP players, especially when it comes to surveillance and tradecraft. Give those a read.

Also, I am going to run a one shot adventure soon where the PCs are members of an erasure squad sent in to take out a nest of exhumans. No exsurgent viral presence so no crazy deus ex machina tech - just crazy rear end transhumans trying to become posthuman. If you have links or ideas for inspiration for this adventure, I may stick them in there. This will be recorded and posted on the RPPR AP podcast fairly soon.

THE LESBIATHAN
Jan 22, 2011

The name Daria was already taken.

Strange Matter posted:

I've been reading this thread on and off, and I have to ask: has anyone crossed referenced Eclipse Phase with Hannu Rajaneimi's The Quantum Thief and The Fractal Prince? I haven't seen these books mentioned in this thread but the universe that he describes in his books matches very closely what's described in Eclipse Phase, so anyone running a game would do well to check the books out for ideas.

I used ideas from both in a campaign I ran a year or two ago; the players were pretty happy with how it went, so I assume they liked the ideas I shamelessly stole.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









apostateCourier posted:

The thing about surveillance being everywhere all the time is that unless something noteworthy happens at a specific time, no one is going to notice. There's too much data. For the rest, there are ways to get around it. Bribe the right people, destroy cameras, pipe in a loop, etc.

I find it handy when they find a bunch of data while infiltrating that I can say 'it's encrypted, give it to your muses to crack' then have twenty minutes to think about what it might be and drop that in at a good time.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

clockworkjoe posted:

This will be recorded and posted on the RPPR AP podcast fairly soon.

Ahahahaha

Helical Nightmares
Apr 30, 2009

Halloween Jack posted:

I've skimmed through Eclipse Phase in the past but I'm only now reading through it. It strikes me as one of those brilliant settings that I despair of getting anyone to play. (Except, I suppose, PBP games where everyone already knows the score.) When I bought Shadowrun 4e, I agreed with the AR concept, but I figured I'd be at a loss to get my players to actually absorb the way that even a simple convenience store would now be handling almost everything with AR, even the signage. I don't expect the people I'm used to playing with offline to really be able to absorb the conceits of the Eclipse Phase setting and act accordingly.

There are things I struggle with myself--how do you guys run games around ubiquitous surveillance, for example? That's a bigger sticking point with me than resleeving, bizarre morphs, or even forks.

Congratulations! You have never listened to RPPR's Eclipse Phase campaign 'Know Evil'. How I envy you, that you get to hear this for the first time! :allears:

http://actualplay.roleplayingpublicradio.com/tag/know-evil/page/6/

Start here (Ross please correct me if my memory is failing) for the amazing prequel 'Think Before Asking' where the character Bartleby is introduced : http://actualplay.roleplayingpublicradio.com/2011/09/genre/horror/eclipse-phase-think-before-asking/


More Eclipse Phase!

Our very own Sinatrapod runs a gaggle of goons through horrifying misadventures! Apes and Sad Robots Ahoy!

Thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3492456

Episodes: http://kilobops.ladderface.net/projects/eclipsephase/

---

The Drunk and the Ugly Eclipse Phase 'The Thunder and the Whirlwind' : http://drunkandugly.com/category/eclipse-phase/the-thunder-and-the-whirlwind/

---

Rag-NERD-rock Eclipse Phase : http://ragnerdrok.com/tag/eclipse-phase/

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I bet whatever knowledge is in that podcast could be explained in writing that would take much less than 2.5 hours to read!

Helical Nightmares
Apr 30, 2009
True, but they are good references and better illustrate the ideas players come up with to subvert surveillance in the Eclipse Phase world.


I'm not an expert by any means but I'll take a crack at your question.

The question of "How the Hell do you Deal With Omnipresent Surveillance" is a question that comes up in Shadowrun and other high-tech rpg settings as well.

In Shadowrun you'd have your Decker take over cameras, loop/edit video, or (to steal from Dragonfall) perform a run against the company that provides electronic surveillance services for your target and force them to patch an update to the surveillance service that was designed with a backdoor that you control. Also there is spoofing someone's identity and silencing any RFIDs on the thing you want to steal.

I don't know the mage angle of Shadowrun.

All the above would be relevant to Eclipse Phase.

I do remember in the 'Know Evil' campaign one episode (or was it two?) was the archetypal Bank Heist situation and the plans the players came up with were hilarious. Also in that scenario I believe there were areas that had less total surveillance than others and the GM rational was the very valid (and real world) bank's budgetary concerns.

Specifically for Eclipse Phase...well if everyone is livejournalling their every move (ie making XPs) the hacker can use infosec to hijack/edit those feeds, you can straight up edit memories with psychosurgery and I believe do even worse things to someone's memory with less of a trace by using psy slights.

Hope this helps.

Edit: And this doesn't touch straight up social engineering and impersonation

Edit: When in doubt, hack it? :shrug:

Helical Nightmares fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Mar 20, 2014

SiberysTrance
Mar 20, 2014
So one of my groups just switched to this from PF, and I've been having fun with it so far (Our first session was basically me busting the rest of the party from a corp icebox on Luna, which was fun) but I've only played EP once before (I had an Octo gunman with 4 assault rifles) but that game ended after a few sessions because the GM liked to switch games a lot, and I joined late in that one.

So, I've read most of the lore from the core book, panopticon, and transhuman, and the character I've got rolled is basically pure face right now, with some token kinetic weapon skills just so I'm not totally useless in a fight. But I'm not entirely sure what to expect at this point. Like, I've looked a lot into my toolkit that I have as a face, and basically I'm kind of at a loss for how to use favors and the whole networking thing. I've been told it's really important and all, and again since I built a face I've got a lot of rep with everyone (Firewall aside since we're not doing a Firewall game), and a pretty good range of networking skills, so I'm pretty good at knowing a guy who knows a guy and whatnot.

But, basically my question is, in typical play, how often should you be using favors? Since I've got rank 4-5 rep with everyone right now, I can using them a lot as being pretty easy, but I'm not sure how often is, for lack of a better word, appropriate. Because it seems like so many problems can be solved by favors, even the pretty low-level ones that refresh really fast, but I don't want my character to be just 'that one who always knows a guy' even if that's basically what I can do. So, I guess my question is, should I really bother being in good with everyone rep-wise, or redistribute some points into other stuff (Since the GM's being pretty loose on rerolling stuff now since we only had about 2 days notice before the first session to make anything)

clockworkjoe
May 31, 2000

Rolled a 1 on the random encounter table, didn't you?

Fenarisk posted:

Ahahahaha

I got a new zoom h2n recorder that I want to try out so I actually mean it this time! :c00l: Also, there's a campaign page that links to all of the episodes of Know Evil: http://actualplay.roleplayingpublicradio.com/know-evil-an-eclipse-phase-campaign/

As for favors, those are easily house ruled, so it's really up to the GM how they're used. There's no set conditions on how often you use favors, because a big favor will take a lot longer to renew than small favors. Rules as written, a high level favor can take weeks or months to renew. Also keep in mind that a favor can be anything from asking a guy a generic question like how many gangs are active in a city to participating in a conspiracy to murder a politician.

Think of favors as a multi-purpose tool that can get you out of a jam, if you know how to parse the favor correctly. It's not as good as having the ability yourself, but it's better than nothing.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









clockworkjoe posted:

I got a new zoom h2n recorder that I want to try out so I actually mean it this time! :c00l: Also, there's a campaign page that links to all of the episodes of Know Evil: http://actualplay.roleplayingpublicradio.com/know-evil-an-eclipse-phase-campaign/

As for favors, those are easily house ruled, so it's really up to the GM how they're used. There's no set conditions on how often you use favors, because a big favor will take a lot longer to renew than small favors. Rules as written, a high level favor can take weeks or months to renew. Also keep in mind that a favor can be anything from asking a guy a generic question like how many gangs are active in a city to participating in a conspiracy to murder a politician.

Think of favors as a multi-purpose tool that can get you out of a jam, if you know how to parse the favor correctly. It's not as good as having the ability yourself, but it's better than nothing.

You also need to use your networking in that faction to find someone who can do you that favour, so it basically requires a new NPC for most favours. Which is cool, it's a good hook generator. Tracking the cooldowns is a pita though.

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Helical Nightmares posted:

The question of "How the Hell do you Deal With Omnipresent Surveillance" is a question that comes up in Shadowrun and other high-tech rpg settings as well.

In Shadowrun you'd have your Decker take over cameras, loop/edit video, or (to steal from Dragonfall) perform a run against the company that provides electronic surveillance services for your target and force them to patch an update to the surveillance service that was designed with a backdoor that you control. Also there is spoofing someone's identity and silencing any RFIDs on the thing you want to steal.

I don't know the mage angle of Shadowrun.

Mage angle is using illusion spells to defeat both human and video visual detection along with copious castings of Sterilize to remove trace evidence.

Gentleman Owl
Apr 29, 2013

Halloween Jack posted:

There are things I struggle with myself--how do you guys run games around ubiquitous surveillance, for example? That's a bigger sticking point with me than resleeving, bizarre morphs, or even forks.

Depending on the location, you can make a good case for getting that information out of most rep networks (aside from just calling in a favor to get it handled offscreen). Guanxi: criminals need smuggling routes and physical locations to house the merchandise or fabbers. Circle-A: anarchists can wave the "down with hypercorp surveillance" flag. Firewall is literally a spy organization. Fame can let you know both where you're most and least likely to be seen because that's their stock-in-trade. CivicNet can let you know how much scrutiny any area is likely to be under.

That also lets you know how far your GM is going to take the whole deal, which is just as important as devoting time to defeating it. Does he want you to make at least a token effort? Does every game need to devolve into an hour of discussing beating surveillance of the most mundane illicit task before the GM is satisfied?

Gentleman Owl fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 20, 2014

clockworkjoe
May 31, 2000

Rolled a 1 on the random encounter table, didn't you?
Panopticon also has a bunch of spy gadgets designed to defeat surveillance. You can also pay others to create blind spots and routes:

quote:

Panopticon p. 154

BlInD SPOT/ROUTE
Certain groups intentionally create or maintain “blind
spots” in public areas that are free of surveillance
coverage. These are then rented out to those who need
to conduct a discreet transaction, switch disguises, or
otherwise do something without being seen or leaving
a record. These blind spots rarely last long; new ones
must be created. For a greater expense, a painstakingly
mapped route can be purchased that carefully winds its
way without crossing through the coverage area of any
sensors. These routes are rare and hard to maintain; it
is unlikely that you can shop for a route in a specific
area, but they are good for setting up a meeting in a
location with an unwatched escape route. Alternatively,
at even greater expense, it is sometimes possible to pay
criminal groups to create a temporary route for you
along the path of your choosing. [High or more]


GMs can use this as an easy way to handwave away surveillance - make an infosec check to create a blind route or call in a favor to get one.

Negative Entropy
Nov 30, 2009

Helical Nightmares posted:

True, but they are good references and better illustrate the ideas players come up with to subvert surveillance in the Eclipse Phase world.


I'm not an expert by any means but I'll take a crack at your question.

The question of "How the Hell do you Deal With Omnipresent Surveillance" is a question that comes up in Shadowrun and other high-tech rpg settings as well.

In Shadowrun you'd have your Decker take over cameras, loop/edit video, or (to steal from Dragonfall) perform a run against the company that provides electronic surveillance services for your target and force them to patch an update to the surveillance service that was designed with a backdoor that you control. Also there is spoofing someone's identity and silencing any RFIDs on the thing you want to steal.

I don't know the mage angle of Shadowrun.

All the above would be relevant to Eclipse Phase.

I do remember in the 'Know Evil' campaign one episode (or was it two?) was the archetypal Bank Heist situation and the plans the players came up with were hilarious. Also in that scenario I believe there were areas that had less total surveillance than others and the GM rational was the very valid (and real world) bank's budgetary concerns.

Specifically for Eclipse Phase...well if everyone is livejournalling their every move (ie making XPs) the hacker can use infosec to hijack/edit those feeds, you can straight up edit memories with psychosurgery and I believe do even worse things to someone's memory with less of a trace by using psy slights.

Hope this helps.

Edit: And this doesn't touch straight up social engineering and impersonation

Edit: When in doubt, hack it? :shrug:

wow, I listened to Think Before Asking at work on friday, the whole 4 hrs and for an old GM looking at running EP and having that new system bewilderment that was an excellent primer for what i should expect to run. I was actually looking at running that exact book adventure for some players and im pleased to have the story spelled out for me. I had a real gut wrenching feeling as the realization of what the players had stumbled upon as i grokked the enormity of it, I love that about the setting. It took me a while to grasp the Horror element of EP, but its right there.

I left my headphones at home so i cant start on Know Evil today :(

thank you for linking those.

Ettin
Oct 2, 2010
If you haven't seen it:

quote:

Between our website, blog, forums, and our social media, we have a lot of communications venues, but we're adding one more: an announcement mailing list. We'll use this list a maximum of a couple times a month to bring you release dates, convention updates, and other important news for Eclipse Phase, Shinobi Clans, and any other games we're working on.
Please subscribe to it here: http://eepurl.com/RIsbnp

Sign up, get news! :getin:

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Kommando posted:

wow, I listened to Think Before Asking at work on friday, the whole 4 hrs and for an old GM looking at running EP and having that new system bewilderment that was an excellent primer for what i should expect to run. I was actually looking at running that exact book adventure for some players and im pleased to have the story spelled out for me. I had a real gut wrenching feeling as the realization of what the players had stumbled upon as i grokked the enormity of it, I love that about the setting. It took me a while to grasp the Horror element of EP, but its right there.

I left my headphones at home so i cant start on Know Evil today :(

thank you for linking those.

Was Think before Asking the one about the AI on the asteroid?

I ran a bunch of Mage stuff that guy did back in the 90s, if so, he's great.

Grim
Sep 11, 2003

Grimey Drawer
Yea Anders Sandberg, I thought the name sounded familiar when I saw that adventure so I went back and checked - looks like the Mage stuff has all been taken down from his host, but there are mirrors still around

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Grim
Sep 11, 2003

Grimey Drawer
I read through the new adventure 'The Devotees' (previously referred to as 'A Stoked Adventure' during the Kickstarter for Transhuman) and it friggin kicks rear end - plenty of ideas on how I could use it as a jumping off point for other good poo poo!

  • Locked thread