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Daylen Drazzi posted:The benefits of a college degree from an employer's standpoint is that you have the willingness to undertake a task that has an unfixed completion date, uncertain financial backing, vague goal, and indeterminate ROI. Once you've completed a course of study you have proven that you are determined enough to open yourself to a wide range of experiences and subjects, and intelligent/stubborn enough to meet the requirements to be awarded a degree. All of that requires commitment. If an employer has to pick between an individual who has 5 years of IT experience and a bachelor's degree, or a guy who has ten years of experience in IT but no degree, who should it be? I know my choice, and I know the choice of most of those who have degrees as well - you go with the guy who's proven he can hack all the bullshit, late nights, early mornings, split shifts, constantly evolving schedules, red tape, and maneuvering through bureaucracy, all the while avoiding the lure of over-indulging in drinking, drugs, sex, and partying. One person has 9 years of working insane hours late, dealing with red tape, bureaucracy, and avoiding a substance abuse problem. The other has 10 years of experience with that. Seems like a tough choice.
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Mar 8, 2014 08:49
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I asked about NTP about a year ago, but that was when I barely understood anything. Get a cheap USB GPS dongle and you can set up stratum 1 servers.
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Mar 8, 2014 18:03
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NTP chat. A lot of our internal engineering stuff at my company is dependent on having an accurate and consistent time source. We have 2 servers with actual hardware radio GPS doodads (Meinberg units) that act as our internal Stratum 1 time servers. Then across all our sites a local Linux server, usually the CVS mirror for the site, runs NTP as a stratum 2 time server. Linux clients are pointed to those servers. On the Microsoft side of things, our Domain Controller that holds the PDC role is pointed to our internal Strat 1 servers, making it a strat 2 server. All other DC's are pointed to the PDC (as they should be) making the local site DC's strat 3 servers. The end result is we have very accurate and consistent time across the entire enterprise on both Linux and Microsoft clients. A note about Microsoft systems... Microsoft AD and the underlying technologies (Kerberos) care more about a consistent time across the domain, than being 100% accurate. If all sites and clients are off by 10 minutes.. no problem. One site off by 6 minutes from another, and that's no good at all which is why the DC holding the PDC emulator role should be the authoritative time source for a AD domain. Also make sure any Virtual Machine hosts you have are all configured properly. I had a few remote sites where they system clock in the BIOS was never set, and the host software was pulling a very wrong time and passing it on to the clients. Hyper-V has a VM option for passing time to the guest VM and I turn that off as I've found it will override the OS level windows time sync. I don't think the VMware one will override a guest's time, but if you're trying to bring up a new server it can cause issues.
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Mar 8, 2014 18:57
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skipdogg posted:NTP chat.
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Mar 8, 2014 19:52
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skipdogg posted:NTP chat.
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Mar 8, 2014 20:01
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evol262 posted:Get a cheap USB GPS dongle and you can set up stratum 1 servers. Now that is a cool idea!
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Mar 8, 2014 20:03
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skipdogg posted:We have 2 servers with actual hardware radio GPS doodads (Meinberg units) that act as our internal Stratum 1 time servers. skipdogg posted:Then across all our sites a local Linux server, usually the CVS mirror for the site, runs NTP as a stratum 2 time server. Linux clients are pointed to those servers. Whats the point lol
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Mar 8, 2014 20:50
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evol262 posted:re: certchat. Literally never had one. Don't see the point in anything other than CISSP, PMP, CCN*. RCH* is great and everything, and I should probably at least get a RHCE, but nobody's ever asked or cared about my certless, degreeless state. I'm so jealous of you people and also hate you.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:09
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Misogynist posted:I might be missing something here, but are you saying you have a pile of machines that are only configured against a single NTP server? We had to switch to that on our development network after the clock in our 6509 (acting as the source for half of the workstations) reset and effectively locked down our branch office. It was a pretty flawed design, so we jut pointed everything to the PDC because there was no way to point to an external stratum 1 time server. e: re: Certs: It seems like certs are a lot more important in the networking sector than in other areas. Like, having a CCIE isn't just a nice thing to put on your resume. It actually has a large and beneficial impact on your career. psydude fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 02:27
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Misogynist posted:I might be missing something here, but are you saying you have a pile of machines that are only configured against a single NTP server?
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Mar 9, 2014 19:57
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Alereon posted:Forgive my ignorance, but why is this a problem? It seems like you could have your NTP server literally catch fire with no backups and have to order and configure a brand new machine and your clocks wouldn't drift enough during that time period for it to matter. I mean I get why you'd want to be fault tolerant but it seems like internal NTP is the kind of service where downtime is quite tolerable. The problem is is a functional NTP server grabs inaccurate time, as in the incident mentioned above. A functioning server with a single bad time source means your entire enterprise has bad time.
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Mar 9, 2014 21:02
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evol262 posted:re: certchat. Literally never had one. Don't see the point in anything other than CISSP, PMP, CCN*. RCH* is great and everything, and I should probably at least get a RHCE, but nobody's ever asked or cared about my certless, degreeless state. I literally have CCNA and a degree that I dropped out of at the end of the second year (spent the entire year caring for my mum who was hospitalised). Nobody gave a poo poo that I dropped out of my degree, because I could prove my grades were good until I had to take care of my family. What people did give a poo poo about was my lack of experience, but were willing to at least interview me, because I explained it in the cover letter (I figured preemptively explaining why i had a certificate rather than a degree from a degree course was the better option). Risky loving move, but it garnered interest and actually nabbed me a job.
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Mar 9, 2014 22:59
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dogstile posted:I literally have CCNA and a degree that I dropped out of at the end of the second year (spent the entire year caring for my mum who was hospitalised). Nobody gave a poo poo that I dropped out of my degree, because I could prove my grades were good until I had to take care of my family. What people did give a poo poo about was my lack of experience, but were willing to at least interview me, because I explained it in the cover letter (I figured preemptively explaining why i had a certificate rather than a degree from a degree course was the better option). That'd be the question I'd have--with financial aid being widely available, why would someone decide not to go to school? Military? Understandable. Forced into a breadwinner role? Also understandable. Goofed around for a few years instead and are now trying to break into the industry? Someone else can take a chance on you. Online schools wouldn't erase poor choices, but if you've got a solid tech background already, where you got your degree from isn't really that important.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:14
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I can understand people being scared of debt. From what I hear America has a horrid system for debt that means your student loans actually count as a debt and can be used against you as such. Here in the UK student loans, while they are debt, don't really count as debt, so you don't have to state that you owe x amount to a student loan company when buying a house, etc. E: Or at least, that's what i've been told.
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Mar 10, 2014 01:04
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Financial "aid" is also a 6.8% interest loan, regardless of your credit history, whereas in the past the money was 1.5-2% interest (making it effectively free)
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Mar 10, 2014 01:26
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You're also giving 18 year old kids credit, which is a bad, bad idea. Not everyone makes the smartest decisions with financial aid. They don't go to a 2-year school for the basics, or even a local college, don't work part time, buy other things with financial aid money than tuition and books... That said college can be really, really expensive but it's not surprising how fancy some of the on-campus housing has gotten and how much costs have just straight up skyrocketed. When your dad talks about working his way through college flipping burgers, he stayed in a pretty basic dorm and didn't have a Starbucks every day before class.
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Mar 10, 2014 01:31
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Yeah but 6.8% is like soooo much less money than my Nordstrom card so it's probably fine.
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Mar 10, 2014 01:35
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I remember when I started college back in 1990 - for 10.5-18 credit hours per quarter (not semester) it cost a grand total of $640. By the time I graduated in 1999 (I worked full-time and went to school when I could fit it in) it was closing in on $1700. I just checked the prices and they've switched to a semester system and it costs just under $4300 a semester. There would be no way in hell that I would ever be able to pay for school and graduate debt free now like I did way back when. With the changes in bankruptcy law to prevent people from discharging their student loan debts there's even more incentive by loan companies to issue student loans to applicants. Defaulting doesn't do a drat thing for those people who can't afford to pay, which in turn drives up the interest rate. It's a vicious circle that keeps driving the cost of education up, and much like the housing bubble I have a feeling it's going to reach a critical point at some juncture.
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Mar 10, 2014 02:08
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Bob Morales posted:When your dad talks about working his way through college flipping burgers, he stayed in a pretty basic dorm and didn't have a Starbucks every day before class.
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Mar 10, 2014 02:10
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Contingency posted:That'd be the question I'd have--with financial aid being widely available, why would someone decide not to go to school? Money isn't free. This kind of thinking has led to a trillion dollars in education debt.
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Mar 10, 2014 02:28
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Bob Morales posted:Not everyone makes the smartest decisions with financial aid. They don't go to a 2-year school for the basics, or even a local college, don't work part time, buy other things with financial aid money than tuition and books... Stop reminding me of my mistakes, dammit! 
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Mar 10, 2014 02:35
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dogstile posted:I can understand people being scared of debt. From what I hear America has a horrid system for debt that means your student loans actually count as a debt and can be used against you as such. Not really. Student loan debt isn't "bad" debt in the same way that $12000 of unpaid credit cards is "bad". The problem with student loan debt is that there's no way to escape it, not even by declaring bankruptcy. There's also a big issue with for profit colleges targeting low-income areas with tuition fees that conveniently match the maximum loan amount for student loan debt. I came away from undergrad with around 20k in loans (all due to room and board) and it's easily managed (but then again I also have a job that pays substantially more than most people in my generation make). I plan to start aggressively paying it down once my car loan is gone. e: I'm paying for grad school straight up with the money I've saved up from Afghanistan. Because even though the loans aren't that bad, gently caress taking out more. psydude fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 02:48
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AlternateAccount posted:Money isn't free. This kind of thinking has led to a trillion dollars in education debt. Alternative is to learn a trade, or work retail/food service for the next 40 years. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.
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Mar 10, 2014 03:56
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Contingency posted:Alternative is to learn a trade, 2) a bachelors degree is not a prerequisite* like it is for say, accounting. *some employers require a bachelors for IT employers, many do not
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Mar 10, 2014 04:53
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The moral of the story is go to college or don't, it's your loving life and your money. You don't actually need a degree to do this job, or most jobs in most industries, really. A college education is what you make of it, and if you go into it thinking "well these courses aren't going to teach me X hard skill for Y field!" then you're missing the point entirely.
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Mar 10, 2014 10:49
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But seriously, if you got to a college, try and go to one that has its affairs in order. I went to some lovely college/uni and most of my teachers were quitting, so it only made sense that a lot of the students did the same.
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Mar 10, 2014 12:27
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psydude posted:The moral of the story is go to college or don't, it's your loving life and your money. You don't actually need a degree to do this job, or most jobs in most industries, really. A college education is what you make of it, and if you go into it thinking "well these courses aren't going to teach me X hard skill for Y field!" then you're missing the point entirely. "when am I ever going to use this math in the real world" ~wants to be a programmer
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Mar 10, 2014 12:57
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:"when am I ever going to use this math in the real world" ~wants to be a programmer You could write CRUD apps for the rest of your life and never use anything beyond basic math.
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Mar 10, 2014 13:13
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:"when am I ever going to use this math in the real world" ~wants to be a programmer To be fair, programmers don't need to know much math. It's the software engineers and developers that do.
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Mar 10, 2014 13:32
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I got an Associates degree in IT and took zero math classes. I do know of local companies that refuse to hire anyone without a bachelors though.
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Mar 10, 2014 13:36
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GreenNight posted:I do know of local companies that refuse to hire anyone without a bachelors though. HR is broken. "You know jack poo poo about IT? You have no experience? You have terrible concepts of networking and how anything is supposed to work? Oh, but you have a degree? Here's the job!"
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Mar 10, 2014 13:50
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Well, it's mainly Epic Systems that puts down that qualification. That's why they keep flying people in from all over the world to work there, hard to find 7000 employees locally. Madison, WI here. I was told that I wouldn't get hired just because I don't have a bachelors, which irritate me.
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Mar 10, 2014 13:55
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:"when am I ever going to use this math in the real world" ~wants to be a programmer This was literally me and to be completely honest I never really saw a reason for a lot of the poo poo I learned in my maths classes. I managed to get through most of my assignments without getting stuck for to long and I got decent grades, although it's probably a good thing I went towards Sysadmin in the end because I have completely forgotten everything I learned, much to the amusement of the WOT goons. < < Oh poo poo, this should tell you all you need to know. <
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Mar 10, 2014 14:23
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I cant think of a time when I needed a ton of math knowledge or skills during my IT career. Nothing beyond your normal day to day math, maybe with learning to subnet some.
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Mar 10, 2014 14:54
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GreenNight posted:I was told that I wouldn't get hired just because I don't have a bachelors, which irritate me. Is there potentially an angle they're playing regarding visas? Where having requirements that are difficult to meet locally would allow them to import employees instead?
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Mar 10, 2014 15:38
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If it's the same Epic Systems that works with MUMPS, my guess is they are getting tired of paying for psychiatrists and find it easier to go overseas and then send them off when they start to go crazy. 
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Mar 10, 2014 15:45
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BaseballPCHiker posted:I cant think of a time when I needed a ton of math knowledge or skills during my IT career. Nothing beyond your normal day to day math, maybe with learning to subnet some. You don't, for IT. That's why I laugh when I see "COMPTUER SCIENCE DEGREE REQUIRED" for helpdesk and network admin jobs. "Do you think if I had a computer science degree I wouldn't be applying for a programming job at company X (hopefully making way more cash, being a brogrammer, and drinking free Bawls all day)"
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Mar 10, 2014 15:46
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Stanos posted:If it's the same Epic Systems that works with MUMPS, my guess is they are getting tired of paying for psychiatrists and find it easier to go overseas and then send them off when they start to go crazy. Yep, same place. I'm not sure concerning the Visa angle.
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Mar 10, 2014 15:47
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Alereon posted:Forgive my ignorance, but why is this a problem? It seems like you could have your NTP server literally catch fire with no backups and have to order and configure a brand new machine and your clocks wouldn't drift enough during that time period for it to matter. I mean I get why you'd want to be fault tolerant but it seems like internal NTP is the kind of service where downtime is quite tolerable. The NTP protocol itself has failsafes in place to detect this sort of problem, and it will use them if you give it multiple servers to work with.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:23
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BaseballPCHiker posted:I cant think of a time when I needed a ton of math knowledge or skills during my IT career. Nothing beyond your normal day to day math, maybe with learning to subnet some.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:29
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