Yea, you just don't seem to understand how it happens. I confused a partial realization with the full one, which is true, and false in a way. It's hard to explain. Basically, the second after you jump off a cliff is the same as the second before you hit the ground. You're dead either way. But I guess you can hang suspended in mid-air for a while, that seems possible and likely.Cumshot in the Dark posted:Getting back on meds or seeking treatment is an enormous act of self compassion dude, and indeed proper. Do you think the Buddha went up to people with a broken leg and went 'nah man you don't need a brace or cast, you just need some good thoughts?' You're ignoring the fact that seeking and receiving help is loving-kindness in a very pure form, no matter whether that help comes in the form of spiritual teachings or medical attention. ThePriceJustWentUp fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 20:35
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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:Yea, you just don't seem to understand how it happens. I confused a partial realization with the full one, which is true, and false in a way. It's hard to explain. Basically, the second after you jump off a cliff is the same as the second before you hit the ground. You're dead either way. But I guess you can hang suspended in mid-air for a while, that seems possible and likely. You didn't have a partial realization.
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Mar 8, 2014 20:38
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Well, it fundamentally changed how I see things, and where I worried before, I didn't worry after. And I saw a clear path forward, the way out of the dark forest as it were. And I've only grown more confident as time has gone on. It was MY partial realization into MY OWN predicament. Your predicament might be different?
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Mar 8, 2014 20:43
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Maybe you had some kind of breakthrough, but it wasn't a "partial realization" in the Dharma sense. If it was you wouldn't be going around spreading unskilful bullshit about how emotions are suffering and presenting yourself as an arahat. Just because you have a breakthrough in your own mental condition doesn't mean you're an ultraBuddhist or something.
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Mar 8, 2014 20:46
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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:
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Mar 8, 2014 20:46
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Cumshot in the Dark posted:Pray tell, who do you think is controlling you? And why would I feel scared of you? I've been around the mentally ill long enough in both a professional and personal sense to know that there isn't anything to fear, at all, from mentally ill people. This is why I'm so damned concerned about you, because you sound like someone with some kind of serious disorder, and I know from experience that even people who say they feel fine who have these problems almost never actually feel happy. Just the way you talk convinces me you aren't happy, but I'm not gonna argue about that. I dunno man, people actively in the midst of psychosis can be pretty drat dangerous. Psychopaths are pretty scary, too. Though an awful lot of mental illness is no threat as long as you just treat the person with patience and respect.
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Mar 8, 2014 20:50
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Cumshot in the Dark posted:Pray tell, who do you think is controlling you? And why would I feel scared of you? I've been around the mentally ill long enough in both a professional and personal sense to know that there isn't anything to fear, at all, from mentally ill people. This is why I'm so damned concerned about you, because you sound like someone with some kind of serious disorder, and I know from experience that even people who say they feel fine who have these problems almost never actually feel happy. Just the way you talk convinces me you aren't happy, but I'm not gonna argue about that. And control by psychiatry, control by medication, control by coercion and money and influence and authority and all the rest. I want no part in any systems of control. They don't understand themselves and they don't understand others. They just follow scripts. Training and education are overwrought scripts of learned behavior. I want no part in any of it. ThePriceJustWentUp fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 20:50
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Cumshot in the Dark posted:Pray tell, who do you think is controlling you? And why would I feel scared of you? I've been around the mentally ill long enough in both a professional and personal sense to know that there isn't anything to fear, at all, from mentally ill people. This is why I'm so damned concerned about you, because you sound like someone with some kind of serious disorder, and I know from experience that even people who say they feel fine who have these problems almost never actually feel happy. Just the way you talk convinces me you aren't happy, but I'm not gonna argue about that. That's a hell of a sweeping statement to make about mental illness. Where is all that personal and professional background, if I may ask?
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Mar 8, 2014 20:52
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55 new posts eh? *click* Ah, emptiness.
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Mar 8, 2014 20:59
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Mr. Mambold posted:That's a hell of a sweeping statement to make about mental illness. Where is all that personal and professional background, if I may ask? As for my background? I was a paid consultant for a national mental health charity and I dealt directly with people in acute psychiatric crises, helping them to find medical attention, helped train police officers to de-escalate dangerous situations, and so on. A big, big, big part of that job was to demystify mental illness and turn it into something other than a weird, frightening and unknowable thing to people who knew very little about it yet dealt with it daily.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:04
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The-Mole posted:I dunno man, people actively in the midst of psychosis can be pretty drat dangerous. Psychopaths are pretty scary, too. Which, by the way, is why I'm really loving sketched out by his return considering how he was last time.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:06
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Which, by the way, is why I'm really loving sketched out by his return considering how he was last time. I dunno, he sounds like he's going through a tough time, sure, but it is not possible to diagnose people over the internet. Not until they start sending you big manifestos with lots of words in CAPITAL LETTERS and [b}BOLD[/b]. If you're worried that he might be fixating on you or planning on making a lampshade out of your skin, stop replying to him or something.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:08
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Literally right after I posted that last message I realized he sent this so excuse me if I'm still feeling uncomfortable as poo poo having him around because clearly he's off his goddamn rocker.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:09
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Which, by the way, is why I'm really loving sketched out by his return considering how he was last time. WAFFLEHOUND posted:Literally right after I posted that last message I realized he sent this so excuse me if I'm still feeling uncomfortable as poo poo having him around because clearly he's off his goddamn rocker. Whatever. The-Mole posted:I dunno, he sounds like he's going through a tough time, sure, but it is not possible to diagnose people over the internet. Not until they start sending you big manifestos with lots of words in CAPITAL LETTERS and [b}BOLD[/b]. ThePriceJustWentUp fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 21:10
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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:I'm a changed person every day, every month, every year. I've become "unstuck". That's what happens I guess. I'm sorry for how I acted before if it caused you so much alarm or whatever. Jesus gently caress, who cares. Just make a thread in E/N about what you're currently going through.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:15
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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:And sorry for reaching out? You're coming at me hard, I'm trying to bring some more understanding to the whole thing. I doubt you'd even see my point of view on the phone, no one does really. It was just an attempt at reaching out. I come across as a friendly guy, people want to be my friend a lot of the time. Of course there's things about me no one understands and I've come to accept that. I think I've made it abundantly clear that your consistent attempts to "reach out" were making me extremely uncomfortable, so your response is... to send me your phone number? Just take midnightclimax's advice. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 8, 2014 21:17
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Cumshot in the Dark posted:Obviously people in a psychosis, a manic state, or whatnot can be dangerous to themselves and others, but with proper handling, respect, and care even the most agitated person can be calmed. When I said there is nothing to fear I meant that on a deep level. Mental illness is not the boogeyman people make it out to be. On a deep level? Have you ever been on a maximum security mental ward? Have you lived around outpatients who were deemed not a threat to themselves or others, but were literally broken minds without a glimmer of getting back any sort of balance ever in their lives. Is that not the scariest thing? Cumshot in the Dark posted:As for my background? I was a paid consultant for a national mental health charity and I dealt directly with people in acute psychiatric crises, helping them to find medical attention, helped train police officers to de-escalate dangerous situations, and so on. A big, big, big part of that job was to demystify mental illness and turn it into something other than a weird, frightening and unknowable thing to people who knew very little about it yet dealt with it daily. That sounds like a dharmic and positive thing. But it seems to imply what your other posts imply also: that you think the solution for mental illness is medical attention, i.e. medicate 'em all. You do know that the Western psychiatric community has, by and large, a huge hardon for doing exactly that?
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Mar 8, 2014 21:17
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PriceJustWentUp, you are posting almost literally exactly the same stuff you posted before being banned. Why do you continue to engage?
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Mar 8, 2014 21:18
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midnightclimax posted:Jesus gently caress, who cares. Just make a thread in E/N about what you're currently going through. Buried alive posted:PriceJustWentUp, you are posting almost literally exactly the same stuff you posted before being banned. Why do you continue to engage? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 8, 2014 21:18
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Mr. Mambold posted:On a deep level? Have you ever been on a maximum security mental ward? Have you lived around outpatients who were deemed not a threat to themselves or others, but were literally broken minds without a glimmer of getting back any sort of balance ever in their lives. Is that not the scariest thing? quote:That sounds like a dharmic and positive thing. But it seems to imply what your other posts imply also: that you think the solution for mental illness is medical attention, i.e. medicate 'em all. You do know that the Western psychiatric community has, by and large, a huge hardon for doing exactly that? I hope that clears things up a bit; I don't want to derail this thread any more than it has been. 
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Mar 8, 2014 21:39
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I think there's been like 160 posts involving guy who chooses long names .
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Mar 8, 2014 21:47
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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:... As near as I can tell, people are acknowledging it. They aren't accepting it, but they're acknowledging it. What more do you want?
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Mar 8, 2014 21:49
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It's like watching children squabble. Seriously.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:50
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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:That wasn't a cry for help. That was a description. If you feel stuck and want to feel "unstuck", that's who I am talking to. The people who aren't afraid to go crazy. It might be important, but it doesn't seem to have much to do with Buddhism. And as you have just recently stated you aren't Buddhist, I can't help but think there are better places to have this discussion.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:56
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Cumshot in the Dark posted:Yes. It wasn't a maximum level ward but it was locked, and there were plenty of people there who had been in major run ins with the cops (and had the wounds to prove it) and who were severely schizophrenic. It isn't scary after the first few hours, it's just sad, because underneath all that you would catch glimmers of a real, very warm hearted person every so often. Cumshot in the Dark posted:I'm actually a much, much bigger proponent of therapy and community support, but some disorders can only be treated by a combination of therapy and medication at the moment. The West is real bad with the overemphasis on medication and medication alone, but likewise people can go too far in the other direction and discount it completely, when in fact it can be a very vital and necessary component of overall treatment. In the best circumstances it is just a temporary tool that makes therapy and social engagement possible, which is where the real healing begins. In the worst cases medication can be absolutely awful and extremely harmful. It all depends on how it is applied, much like any form of technology. I don't think it's a derail, unless one's buddhism is so narrow as to not really be concerned with actual suffering.
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Mar 8, 2014 22:06
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You bring up a very good point. Everyone, but especially Buddhists, should take at least a bit of time to volunteer within their community, or to find some way of being of service to another. Your practice should not be limited to meditation and study.
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Mar 8, 2014 22:39
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Holy poo poo. Please go away. Waffle and I have have some slight differences in the past but wow I'm glad he's around when idiots like you come around. Go. The. gently caress. Away. Your argumentative posts do far more harm than good in a thread like this. You've said some of the most harmful, ignorant, arrogant posts I've ever read on SA. I wish you has stayed banned. Sorry. You're just not helping anyone with bullshit like this.
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Mar 9, 2014 03:52
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On the topic of Dzogchen, it's something I've been curious about for a while and I was wondering if anyone had had any experiences with the International Dzogchen Community? They're the main Dzogchen group in my country and would be keen to make the (fairly long) journey to become involved with them, but wanted to see if anyone had anything positive or negative to say about them.
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Mar 10, 2014 10:12
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In regard to Tibetan Buddhism in general, what options are there in America for laity who want to get fully involved in the vajrayana practice? So far the only one I'm familiar with is Shambhala, but Diamond Way also seems to be an option if a little controversial. What else is there (especially if anyone knows any specific places in LA, that would help)?
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Mar 10, 2014 19:45
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The Dark Wind posted:In regard to Tibetan Buddhism in general, what options are there in America for laity who want to get fully involved in the vajrayana practice? So far the only one I'm familiar with is Shambhala, but Diamond Way also seems to be an option if a little controversial. What else is there (especially if anyone knows any specific places in LA, that would help)? I don't know any specific ones in LA, but I've never seen a Tibetan Buddhist center that didn't involve laity in practice. There may be some that are only teaching oriented? But I don't know of them. I know there is one center in Escondido that is from my lineage (Drikung Kagyu) and has at least one very knowledgeable lama, and which practices Vajrayana and welcome laity. Truth is in the West most practitioners are laypersons, so most centers accommodate this. Individual lineages often have involved practices at centers that aren't affiliated with the "big" movements like Shambhala or Diamond Way or so on. Drikung Kagyu, Nyingma, and Sakya lineages all have their own things going on that aren't big like Shambhala is.
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Mar 10, 2014 19:57
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I'm super new (a month) to a Shambhala centre in my city. It is quite a small group and I wasn't aware that it was "big". Maybe I'm paranoid but is there something fishy about Shambhala that I should be aware of?
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Mar 10, 2014 20:13
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Warsteiner posted:I'm super new (a month) to a Shambhala centre in my city. It is quite a small group and I wasn't aware that it was "big". Maybe I'm paranoid but is there something fishy about Shambhala that I should be aware of? There's nothing really fundamentally wrong with Shambhala. While CTR was a super controversial teacher, the current head of the lineage has a good head on his shoulders. I'm just looking to see all the other options available for Vajrayana practice in America, since I was talking to someone at a Shambhala retreat this weekend who told me that the Sakyong stopped allowing people to practice old Vajrayana practices in the center in exchange for newer Shambhala-oriented Vajrayana practices. I think that, personally, I would prefer something a little more traditional. Plus Shambhala tends to be a little money hungry and there is definitely way more branding than I'm comfortable with, but those are honestly more superficial worries. Overall I've learned a ton from going to my center in the past year or so, don't be too worried about it! Paramemetic posted:I don't know any specific ones in LA, but I've never seen a Tibetan Buddhist center that didn't involve laity in practice. There may be some that are only teaching oriented? But I don't know of them. I know there is one center in Escondido that is from my lineage (Drikung Kagyu) and has at least one very knowledgeable lama, and which practices Vajrayana and welcome laity. Thanks! I noticed that there is a Drikung Kagyu center near me (I live in Boston, but I'm potentially moving to LA soon so I'm figuring I might switch up my practice a little if I end up there) and I might give it a look. Do these centers offer ngondro and eventually empowerment/pointing out/guidance on tantric practices/etc. for the laity? reversefungi fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 20:20
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Warsteiner posted:I'm super new (a month) to a Shambhala centre in my city. It is quite a small group and I wasn't aware that it was "big". Maybe I'm paranoid but is there something fishy about Shambhala that I should be aware of? Shambhala represents probably the first major movement of Tibetan Buddhism in the West. It maintains a large number of centers and is a fairly big movement. It was founded by Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche along with Naropa University and was designed to work with Western secular sensibilities while maintaining the transmissions of the Nyingma and Kagyu schools which Trungpa Rinpoche held. There's some controversy about Chogyam Trungpa himself, which some people consider very problematic and others do not. There is also a tendency for a lot of people to be somewhat judgmental of Shambhala for whatever reason. It's a legitimate tradition with legitimate transmissions and authority, it just tends to be kind of "Western flavor" which is fine, since it is meant for Westerners. They maintain a few substantial publications (Shambhala Sun, for example) as well as some printing presses and such. I don't know anything about the specifics of their practices as it is not my tradition, but I don't know that there's anything specific you "need to know" about them that might flavor your opinion any more than what you've already encountered? I don't think there's any reason to be paranoid - it is a legitimate lineage, it just doesn't necessarily have the same "flavor" as other older Tibetan traditions because it's been packaged to taste better for Westerners, I guess is a way to put it.
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Mar 10, 2014 20:23
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Excellent. Thank you both for the answers. Really enjoy reading this thread. It's a daily ritual and I'm learning a lot from this.
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Mar 10, 2014 20:46
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The Dark Wind posted:Thanks! I noticed that there is a Drikung Kagyu center near me (I live in Boston, but I'm potentially moving to LA soon so I'm figuring I might switch up my practice a little if I end up there) and I might give it a look. Do these centers offer ngondro and eventually empowerment/pointing out/guidance on tantric practices/etc. for the laity? The Drikung Kagyu center in Boston is directed by Lama Sonam, who is not only a good monk but just an awesome dude. I strongly suggest checking it out. I know that my center in particular offers Ngondro and goes from there for laypersons. Seeing as the Boston center was founded by Khenchen Rinpoche just the same, I would not be surprised if they don't have it either ongoing or in the works. If you'd like I can ask Lama Sonam. Empowerments and guidance on tantric practices are very common for laity. Pointing out instruction is not something I can easily comment on because I don't believe it's usually done as a formal thing, but rather it is done when the Lama decides the student is ready, and is often spontaneous. It's more based on relationship than having put in so many hours and so on. That said, there are a number of qualified lamas coming through that center with whom to establish a relationship that could develop in such a way.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:10
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Paramemetic posted:The Drikung Kagyu center in Boston is directed by Lama Sonam, who is not only a good monk but just an awesome dude. I strongly suggest checking it out. I know that my center in particular offers Ngondro and goes from there for laypersons. Seeing as the Boston center was founded by Khenchen Rinpoche just the same, I would not be surprised if they don't have it either ongoing or in the works. If you'd like I can ask Lama Sonam. Empowerments and guidance on tantric practices are very common for laity. Pointing out instruction is not something I can easily comment on because I don't believe it's usually done as a formal thing, but rather it is done when the Lama decides the student is ready, and is often spontaneous. It's more based on relationship than having put in so many hours and so on. Thank you, that was super informative! I might try to drop by their center, although it's a little far from me. That's really good to know. I realize that ngondro is the preliminary practice, but is there anything that is required pre-ngondro, such as certain amount of years practicing, before they introduce that to you?
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Mar 10, 2014 21:18
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We were talking about monastics a few pages ago and I thought I'd direct a question to some of the more long-term practitioners in the thread: Have any of you considered ordaining as a monk? It is something I have considered with varying degrees of seriousness over the past few years, even going as far as to make arrangements with a monk in Sri Lanka to visit a monastery and stay for a few weeks as a novice before the plans fell through. Since that time I have started a relationship with a woman who I will most likely end up marrying, so in many ways I am glad things didn't follow through. It also makes me realize that I was probably not ready for ordination, as my attachments to lay life are fairly strong. There are a few people at my Dhamma center who seem to be working toward ordination (learning Pali, teaching meditation, leading sutta study groups, etc), and I was curious as to how common this is among westerners in other traditions. Has anyone here taken temporary ordination? It is fairly common to do so in Thailand, but this may be specific to Theravada.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:19
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The Dark Wind posted:Thank you, that was super informative! I might try to drop by their center, although it's a little far from me. That's really good to know. I realize that ngondro is the preliminary practice, but is there anything that is required pre-ngondro, such as certain amount of years practicing, before they introduce that to you? In my tradition there is a brief instruction that is preliminary to the ngondro practice which is called the "four thoughts that turn the mind to the Dharma." This teaching is orally transmitted and meditated upon and provides the basis of the ngondro. There may be other practices that are performed beforehand, as well, but it varies from teacher to teacher. Prickly Pete posted:We were talking about monastics a few pages ago and I thought I'd direct a question to some of the more long-term practitioners in the thread: Have any of you considered ordaining as a monk? I've considered it, but I am married, and have been more or less instructed that I'm not to become a monk, at least not any time soon. However, my lineage doesn't place monks necessarily above laity in any major way. Taking monastic vows and living in the monastery and so on is mainly to support a person in their practice by providing the structure and community, it is not necessary. Perhaps tangentially related, a friend of mine on Facebook who is presently attending talks by His Holiness the Drikung Kyabgon Chetsang Rinpoche recorded these points he made during a lecture to monks and nuns on Saturday. quote:"There is much that we need to change!" She recorded these herself and hopes that a formal writing will follow. What are all of your thoughts on these points?
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Mar 10, 2014 21:41
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Hey. If life is suffering, how do you justify procreation? (I know nothing about buddhism.)
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Mar 10, 2014 22:12
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Prickly Pete posted:We were talking about monastics a few pages ago and I thought I'd direct a question to some of the more long-term practitioners in the thread: Have any of you considered ordaining as a monk? I would really like to ordain in Australia at the Bodhinyana monastery where Ajahn Brahm is abbot, but I know there is also thai forest tradition monastery in England, which is maybe more realistic since its a lot closer.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:32
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