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jassi007 posted:This is a collectible card game. Some people like the collectible aspect more than the game aspect. You and I, if it isn't a horrible dog eaten piece of poo poo and can be played in a sleeve, I'll play it. I should show a picture of the mox diamond I have in my cube sometime. It will make some people weep, but I got it for nothing. I'd rather haggle with a dealer over that goblin guide that is closer to played than SP than haggle into a miscut LED. That is just me though. https://www.dropbox.com/s/g2oe8pq0max8pj7/20130621_212947.jpg Unlimited. $10. Supposedly it's sleeve playable, but I just have it in a Commander deck. Speaking of Commander, we decided to play new decks at my store, which hopefully will let me actually have some fun for once. Last time we played our new decks, they played slightly modified pre-cons and I played my decks that I actually put some effort into, and there was much whining that I would dare to not play an intentionally bad deck. So anyway, I'm building a 5-color bad stuff deck with Shiny Chromanticore as my Commander because I don't even care. I have Chromat if someone whines about using a non-Legend. I probably just won't play with them if they complain about that though. I'm looking for some fun 5-color cycles to throw in. So far I have the Myojins, Bringers of ____ Dawn, Ultimatums (except for Clarion,) 3-color Dragons and Alara Charms, a few of the 3-color dragons, and of course the Nephilim, plus a bunch of ramp to make sure I get the right lands. Last Stand with Prismatic Omen is an obvious inclusion because who'll see THAT coming? I'm thinking of adding Sliver Queen in with Mana Echoes to have an actual win-con too.
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Mar 11, 2014 14:20
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Lord Of Texas posted:Not really. These people did not have the decency to cover up their disgusting rear end cracks and instead forced thousands of people to be exposed to them. They had an easy choice to pull up their goddamn pants. Not to mention the hygiene issues, that area of the body is a hive of bacteria and they are directly applying it to a public seat that someone else will sit in next round. It takes more energy to fatshame people than to just ignore it which is the polite thing to do in society, not just magic. It really has no effect on anyone else.
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Mar 11, 2014 14:40
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mcmagic posted:It takes more energy to fatshame people than to just ignore it which is the polite thing to do in society, not just magic. It really has no effect on anyone else. I think it's great because the correct response to this post is actually the post that you quoted.
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Mar 11, 2014 14:46
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Lord Of Texas posted:Not really. These people did not have the decency to cover up their disgusting rear end cracks and instead forced thousands of people to be exposed to them. They had an easy choice to pull up their goddamn pants. Not to mention the hygiene issues, that area of the body is a hive of bacteria and they are directly applying it to a public seat that someone else will sit in next round. So the best way to encourage someone to improve themselves is to bully them? You can't be that dense. Yes, good hygiene or the lack thereof is probably one of the worst parts of the community. Agree. There must certainly be a better way to go about fixing the problem than being disrespectful to others. Fat shaming doesn't make fat people change, it just makes them angry.
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Mar 11, 2014 14:52
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mcmagic posted:It takes more energy to fatshame people than to just ignore it which is the polite thing to do in society, not just magic. It really has no effect on anyone else. Does it have to do with fatshaming? Do only fat people have buttcracks that hang out when they don't pull up their pants or wear a belt like a normal human being? If Wizards wants to ban the guy for violating privacy rights/bullying/whatever, that's fine with me. Better to be a little too strict in these matters than too loose, but don't tell me we should just ignore people who don't have basic hygiene/clothing skills.
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Mar 11, 2014 14:53
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DurdleDuck posted:Does it have to do with fatshaming? Do only fat people have buttcracks that hang out when they don't pull up their pants or wear a belt like a normal human being? Yeah, basically asscracks hanging out does go hand in hand with being overweight. I don't care to dissect those pictures in detail for you, but suffice it to say that fat people sometimes wear pants to low because of their fat bellies or they don't wear a belt when they should. non-fatties in general don't have this problem. I am overweight and generally don't have a crack problem because I wear my pants high enough, which means they ride on my belly but that is where they belong. People don't always do it that way be case 1. denial about their actual waist size. 2. It chafes their stomach. Being fat stinks. I had it in control for years but then i got a stressful job, bought a house, had two kids and 99.9% of my free time has evaporated until my infant and toddler are slightly less needy it is nearly impossible to find the proper time to cook better food and exercise to get my weight back under control. This is a fun topic. Wizards really shouldn't ignore hygiene etc. I wear clothes of the proper size and bathe regularly even though I am overweight and wish others could do so as well. Also being smelly has nothing to do with being fat while we're on the subject, some of the smelliest people this weekend were those not morbidly obese. The odor bothers me WAY more than the asscrack.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:00
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mcmagic posted:It takes more energy to fatshame people than to just ignore it which is the polite thing to do in society, not just magic. It really has no effect on anyone else. It's not fatshaming. There are a zillion fat people with the basic respect for others to not shove their asscracks on a shared seat. I agree that if you saw a random guy with his asscrack hanging out on the street, the polite thing to do would either be ignore it or discreetly let them know. If you've been to Magic events, you know that player hygiene is a widespread issue, not isolated in the slightest. Wizards has done gently caress-all to address the issue of hygiene in their organized play and they deserve their game getting a front-page Reddit reputation for nerds who can't practice basic social decency. I've been to large gatherings of many other interests, including geeky ones. Surely many people at these gatherings have been picked on and ostracized before. None of them have this problem. 67,000 people at Lucas Oil stadium, including many fat ones, not one asscrack to be seen. 130 employees sitting in cheap chairs at my company "Hackathon", not one asscrack or tinge of body odor. It's entirely on Organized Play for allowing this type of behavior at their events. The only positive that banning this guy would net is assuring players with actual, legitimate appearance issues (facial deformities and the like) that they won't be made fun of at Magic events. They need to couple it with enforcing basic standards of hygiene at their events if they want the competitive game to grow to levels of mainstream social acceptance.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:01
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DurdleDuck posted:Does it have to do with fatshaming? Do only fat people have buttcracks that hang out when they don't pull up their pants or wear a belt like a normal human being? I've seen a lot of non-overweight with their asscracks showing so it's not just fat people. It has to do with clothes and posture when sitting down.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:02
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DurdleDuck posted:Does it have to do with fatshaming? Do only fat people have buttcracks that hang out when they don't pull up their pants or wear a belt like a normal human being? vvv Were we looking at the same album? I didn't see any 130 pound twink looking dudes on that album. Korak fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:04
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jassi007 posted:I don't care to dissect those pictures in detail for you Clearly, because a good chunk of the folks in them weren't even that fat.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:04
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Lord Of Texas posted:Not really. These people did not have the decency to cover up their disgusting rear end cracks and instead forced thousands of people to be exposed to them. They had an easy choice to pull up their goddamn pants. Not to mention the hygiene issues, that area of the body is a hive of bacteria and they are directly applying it to a public seat that someone else will sit in next round. I would say that mostly proves my point about having to go pretty far out there to defend him. Creating a safe environment for people isn't just some Dove commercial bullshit; and it's doubly important for a hobby full of weirdos (like us). Also, most of those dudes ARE wearing belts.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:04
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JerryLee posted:Clearly, because a good chunk of the folks in them weren't even that fat. You really want to nitpick this tiniest of points? Fine lets do this. http://imgur.com/a/SjcgE 12 images, which ones aren't fat.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:07
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jassi007 posted:So the best way to encourage someone to improve themselves is to bully them? You can't be that dense. Yes, good hygiene or the lack thereof is probably one of the worst parts of the community. Agree. There must certainly be a better way to go about fixing the problem than being disrespectful to others. Fat shaming doesn't make fat people change, it just makes them angry. Again - not fat shaming. Asscrack shaming. I was fat once, even though I've lost a lot of weight (260->187 currently) I still have insecurities about my appearance. This is not about weight. I never had any issues covering my asscrack because I knew it was respectful to others not to have my pale white rear end in their face or on their seat. I do not think the reddit post is the best way to improve hygiene in the community. I think the best way is for the authority in the situation, Organized Play, to lead by example and enforce very basic hygiene standards at their events. They can't control what FLGS's or SCG do, but they have full control over their own events.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:08
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jassi007 posted:You really want to nitpick this tiniest of points? Fine lets do this. http://imgur.com/a/SjcgE 12 images, which ones aren't fat. I can't help but read your posts as though you really are the man in the helmet eating the giant hamburger.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:09
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Huxley posted:I would say that mostly proves my point about having to go pretty far out there to defend him. Creating a safe environment for people isn't just some Dove commercial bullshit; and it's doubly important for a hobby full of weirdos (like us). Magic events would still be safe environments with basic standards of hygiene. To be clear, I'm not saying the reddit guy is some saint, and Organized Play is correct to ban him (if they do) to assure people with actual insurmountable cosmetic deficiencies that they can come and play without being ridiculed. But the people in question with their asses hanging fully out on the seat deserved what they got - they showed no respect to those around them and got none in return. Lord Of Texas fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:12
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Lord Of Texas posted:Again - not fat shaming. Asscrack shaming. I was fat once, even though I've lost a lot of weight (260->187 currently) I still have insecurities about my appearance. This is not about weight. I never had any issues covering my asscrack because I knew it was respectful to others not to have my pale white rear end in their face or on their seat. I agree that Organized Play should do something, I think its just an awful situation. What do you do, website posts? Signs with bars of soap outside the GP saying "Have you showered today? Love the DCI." Maybe get Axe body spray to be a partner? I'm half joking but for those of us who do wear appropriate clothing and bathe often will just roll our eyes, and those who don't will probably ignore it and think it doesn't apply to them. DQ's or gamelosses for smell? JUDGE! Get a wiff of this guy, I'm gagging here. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:14
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LordSaturn posted:I can't help but read your posts as though you really are the man in the helmet eating the giant hamburger. I am. It was delicious. Safety first!
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Mar 11, 2014 15:14
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jassi007 posted:You really want to nitpick this tiniest of points? Fine lets do this. http://imgur.com/a/SjcgE 12 images, which ones aren't fat. When your thesis based on that post appears to be 'these people should not be blamed because the sheer size of their bellies makes it mechanically impractical for them to cover their asscracks even with appropriately selected and applied articles of clothing,' then yes, it's a pretty valid point to go after. So, with the understanding that my criterion is not 'this person is a supermodel' (because none of them are) but rather 'this person is not so large that they should have any trouble covering their body with clothing,' I would say: 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15. 6 and 8 are a little iffy but I don't see rolls of fat bulging out so I'm gonna call them this way. Mind you, this doesn't mean it's okay for the others to actually go out to the GP without having taken steps to control it, merely that I can see where it might genuinely become more difficult for them.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:16
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jassi007 posted:Maybe get Axe body spray to be a partner? Definitely not this one, half of the odor problem is that some people think they can get away with not showering by dousing themselves in Axe or other nasty stuff. Then you get a soup of BO and cheap body spray. Clubs have bouncers who will not let you in if you're wearing nothing but a wifebeater. It's really not a difficult concept. If you have your rear end fully exposed you get a polite, discreet warning, if you don't fix the issue you get an XXXL shirt to tuck into your pants. Magic is exploding and they do not need to grasp and claw at every last smelly disgusting consumer.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:23
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Every single person in every picture, not just the asscrack dudes, have at least $500 in cards on them and likely a lot more. On the flip side, those peoples clothes probably cost $300 if you combined them all. The entire 4000 player GP.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:27
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jassi007 posted:I agree that Organized Play should do something, I think its just an awful situation. What do you do, website posts? Signs with bars of soap outside the GP saying "Have you showered today? Love the DCI." I'm half joking but for those of us who do wear appropriate clothing and bathe often will just roll our eyes, and those who don't will probably ignore it and think it doesn't apply to them. DQ's or gamelosses for smell? JUDGE! Get a wiff of this guy, I'm gagging here. It is incredibly awkward. I've called a judge because I was seated next to a player whose B.O. was so severe it was making me gag. He told me there was nothing he could do. Thankfully the guy lost to an aggro deck in 5 minutes and went away. People will cry, "But where do you draw the line!" but it's no different than a public high school expecting you to show up having recently bathed so your smell doesn't disrupt the classroom; you will wind up in an awkward meeting with your parents and guidance counselor. I think leaving it up to the head judge's discretion is reasonable, and just add a section to the Tournament Rules to cover this. It's so closely related to unsporting conduct as it is, to show up smelling so bad it distracts your opponent. If you receive enough complaints, make contact with the player to check it out for yourself, and if you agree these are legit reports, that player is asked to leave. The T.O. can make it clear, at each individual event's announcement, that basic hygiene is expected, at least when such a policy is first implemented. Beyond that, I think it's common sense to not show up smelling like poop. You can't quantify "smelliness", but just like language and behavior is a gray area we leave to the judge to rule on, someone is given the final say and that's that.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:27
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I thought not calling people out on their horrible poo poo is how tumblr hug boxes and anime threads defending their right to watch naked 8 year olds were formed? And LOT is right. Why should WOTC defend the disgusting grognards playing their games? They're not the (better groomed) casuals who make up the bulk of their sales and GP attendance anyway. jassi007 posted:I agree that Organized Play should do something, I think its just an awful situation. What do you do, website posts? Signs with bars of soap outside the GP saying "Have you showered today? Love the DCI." Maybe get Axe body spray to be a partner? I'm half joking but for those of us who do wear appropriate clothing and bathe often will just roll our eyes, and those who don't will probably ignore it and think it doesn't apply to them. DQ's or gamelosses for smell? JUDGE! Get a wiff of this guy, I'm gagging here. These are all good ideas. Even if half are just joking, I'd much rather have this than continue to have my eyes water in large events and have WOTC do nothing about it. People won't leave because of harsher penalties. They love their cardboard too much. Guarantee they'd take care to shower and keep extra sticks of deodorant to not receive a game loss, just like they already do with extra new sleeves to prevent marked cards. Prob is the axe issue that LOT pointed out. Gotta make a line between proper hygiene and smell cover ups.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:27
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You don't even need to make qualitative judgments about how "horrible" something is to realize why it's not a SJW issue, because I promise you that (effectively) nobody actually has an invested sense of identity based on not showering or displaying the top of their asscrack. edit: Ironically, I've seen people who actually do make a conscious decision to wear their pants low as a fashion statement, and they almost never actually show their butts, just their underwear. Whether that would be acceptable is probably a derail we don't need to have, but the point is that you can tell when it's a matter of identity/conscious personal presentation vs. being a slob. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:32
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Lord Of Texas posted:Definitely not this one, half of the odor problem is that some people think they can get away with not showering by dousing themselves in Axe or other nasty stuff. Then you get a soup of BO and cheap body spray. I was joking about Axe, I know its reputation. I mean in general wear a clean smelling anti-perspirant, not just deodorant (there is a difference), and properly fitting clothes. I have no problems with these guidelines because I'm a loving grown up who showers, shaves and wears the right sized clothing.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:33
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Look, I believe that R&D has already attempted to factor players' body metrics onto rules text before: It was pretty unfair that it lost 1/2 power when I control magic'd it! Just change casting cost to be based on body odor and toughness, well, yeah.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:34
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The point is less about whose bellies and asses look presentable and more about the bullying issue. Wizards wants their game to be a safe haven for people to come play. In this case it's more about sending that message than punishing some guy for a series of pictures of buttcracks. Lots of people who play this game have probably been picked on enough already in their lives.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:35
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Magic: The Gathering: The Megathread: Asscrack chatjassi007 posted:Maybe get Axe body spray to be a partner? This is actually the best idea I've heard in this thread. There's more than enough market overlap between typical Axe users and Magic players that it would be a moneymaker for Axe and might convince a few of the unclean to put on deodorant before the event. As a MTGO I've only been to mostly FNMs for fun, are their typically corporate sponsors for GPs and huge events?
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Mar 11, 2014 15:35
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Zoness posted:Look, I believe that R&D has already attempted to factor players' body metrics onto rules text before: Little known fact: Fat rear end was actually created to use the art from Avatar of Me after new art was commissioned for that card at the last minute.  e: this donkey is clearly wearing a belt, what more do you want?? 
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Mar 11, 2014 15:37
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JerryLee posted:You don't even need to make qualitative judgments about how "horrible" something is to realize why it's not a SJW issue, because I promise you that (effectively) nobody actually has an invested sense of identity based on not showering or displaying the top of their asscrack.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:40
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JerryLee posted:When your thesis based on that post appears to be 'these people should not be blamed because the sheer size of their bellies makes it mechanically impractical for them to cover their asscracks even with appropriately selected and applied articles of clothing,' then yes, it's a pretty valid point to go after. What? Fat people should wear clothes that fit. What my "thesis"is, is don't be an rear end in a top hat and make fun of people because they've done something wrong. Also, just like sometimes even though I put on a clean laundered shirt in the morning, I might spill something on it and not have an opportunity to change it. This doesn't mean I'm always a slob. If I feel my pants riding down and i'm literally in the middle of play or something I might have a bit of crack exposed for 30 seconds. I actually try very very hard to not be gross in appearance, but I promise that I've had a dirty shirt, and/or probably had my pants ride down a bit and someone has seen me in public in the moment. That doesn't mean that I, or those people, are always horrible gross people. I'm saying all of this, not in defense of people with their butts hanging out, I'm saying it in defense of being critical of people. Don't be an rear end in a top hat and judge people. If hygiene is an issue "it is" address it in a reasonable manner.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:42
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^^^ You said it went hand in hand with being overweight and pretty clearly argued that it was because of having a belly that was too big. I can only respond to what you say. Your new post seems more clear.  Fox of Stone posted:I can assure you that with the former, I have met and known people who do. It is in fact a point of pride to some people to differentiate themselves from the filthy casuals. There is in fact also a tumblr from a crazy person talking about odor privileges but I'll be damned if I had to look for it again. Are you sure it isn't a post facto rationalization? Because I have no doubt that there are people who will talk about 'odor privileges' to avoid having to groom themselves, but that's different from a normal person deciding one morning 'I've been living a lie' and ceasing the use of deodorant or pants that stay up. That's the distinction I was trying to make, sorry if it wasn't clear. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:43
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JerryLee posted:^^^ You said it went hand in hand with being overweight and pretty clearly argued that it was because of having a belly that was too big. I can only respond to what you say. Your new post seems more clear. It does. Most fat people that have their rear end hanging out, its because they are overweight and aren't wearing the right clothing, or aren't wearing their clothing correctly. They are in denial about their waste size so their pants sit to low, or they just don't have them pulled up high enough or they are loose because they chafe fat bellies. If my original post wasnt' clear, I hope this clarfies. I think all of those people are fat. Some are to a much higher degree than others, but I don't see one non-fat person in those photos. If your pants fit correctly and you wear them correctly, your rear end doesn't hang out. Aside from teenagers who think its fun to wear their waste around their thighs most people wear pants correctly. its not a huge life skill. People in denial or uncomfortable about their bodies (ie fatso's) are most likely to not be wearing clothes correctly and thus have their butt hanging out. Its not rocket surgery :P All that being said, why people have their rear end hanging out isn't the issue. Its what to do about it. 1. Generally don't point it out. Its rude. 2. If it is an endemic problem with a group of people, due to poor self care, hygiene, clothing, etc. make some effort to tell the group as a whole that it is not acceptable without shaming people. If this person thought that was what they were doing, they are mistaken. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:52
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Definitely showing up to the next big tournament without having showered to tilt my opponents. Between that, playing lands in front, my anime girl playmat, my unsleeved esper control deck where the only win condition is a single recurred thought scour, and my custom printed I <3 THE RESERVE LIST t-shirt I will be sure to win.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:53
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I guess I draw a distinction between being overweight (as in you could probably stand to lose some vanity or health pounds) and being so direly obese that it's a legit problem for you to have pants that fit and stay in place. Probably all the people in those pictures fit into the first category, even if slightly; but I'd say less than half of them fit into the latter.Death Bot posted:Definitely showing up to the next big tournament without having showered to tilt my opponents. Between that, playing lands in front, my anime girl playmat, my unsleeved esper control deck where the only win condition is a single recurred thought scour, and my custom printed I <3 THE RESERVE LIST t-shirt I will be sure to win. If you built a giant robot out of bad MTG attitudes this is what it would look like. Except the deck choice, that's awesome.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:54
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I shower every day, but I always go out of my way to shower, brush my teeth, and change clothes before FNM because I've smelled horrible things at my LGS, and the fear of contributing to that smell, even by accidental negligence, is a powerful motivator for my hygiene. Likewise, seeing their rear end cracks from time to time makes me conscious of my own, and I take a second to hike my pants up before I sit down at the table. I honestly don't know why that fear doesn't have an impact on the stinkers playing EDH in the back room. I can't fathom why people don't see a big 'ol rear end crack in a fold-out chair, think "gross", and remember that they too have an rear end crack that needs to be kept in check, but it's not my place to shame them to their faces. I also wouldn't post pictures of their rear end cracks for laughs, but that's because I know those people and see them every week. If it wasn't rear end cracks, but big-tittied animu playmats and altered basic lands being made fun of, would there be a need for a response from Wizards? There always seems to be some characteristic that is acceptable to mock: rudeness is one, stench is perhaps another, loli-chan sleeves certainly makes the list. The issue at hand isn't bullying, but rather the trait being bullied, and I feel like anonymous rear end cracks are close to, but not quite, a thing you can't make fun of. Mouth Ze Dong fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:56
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JerryLee posted:I guess I draw a distinction between being overweight (as in you could probably stand to lose some vanity or health pounds) and being so direly obese that it's a legit problem for you to have pants that fit and stay in place. Probably all the people in those pictures fit into the first category, even if slightly; but I'd say less than half of them fit into the latter. This really goes down a road of how fat is FAT? I don't think that is where you really want to go. If it helps you feel better, some of them are only a little fat. I agree. I still think they're probably wearing the wrong size pants because being even a little fat is not something easy to accept. The very big guys have probably just given up on appearance. The less big guys are probably in denial about having to go from a 36 waist to a 38 or 40. Both are outcomes of being overweight, to one degree or another.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:57
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jassi007 posted:This really goes down a road of how fat is FAT? I don't think that is where you really want to go. If it helps you feel better, some of them are only a little fat. I agree. I still think they're probably wearing the wrong size pants because being even a little fat is not something easy to accept. The very big guys have probably just given up on appearance. The less big guys are probably in denial about having to go from a 36 waist to a 38 or 40. Both are outcomes of being overweight, to one degree or another. Okay, I thought you were making an argument based on physical difficulty finding pants that fit or fastening your belt non-painfully. The mental image side of the coin makes more sense, but that wasn't clear to me from your original post because you seemed to focus on mechanical difficulties.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:02
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I was at a tournament a few weekends ago and I was sitting next to an extremely obese guy who smelled literally like poo poo (I assume people like that can't clean themselves very well), so I got up and walked away. That guy's life is poo poo enough without anyone at a magic event being deliberately cruel to him for lolz online.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:05
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jassi007 posted:This really goes down a road of how fat is FAT? I don't think that is where you really want to go. If it helps you feel better, some of them are only a little fat. I agree. I still think they're probably wearing the wrong size pants because being even a little fat is not something easy to accept. The very big guys have probably just given up on appearance. The less big guys are probably in denial about having to go from a 36 waist to a 38 or 40. Both are outcomes of being overweight, to one degree or another. Let's cut this off at the pass and just say that no one should have their rear end out. If they don't care enough to hide their rear end, they either don't care if there's a picture taken or they're lying.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:05
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They should just have judges walking around with a packpack full of belts, suspenders, and various hygiene products that they hand out like infractions.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:08
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