|
Hymirvetr posted:Oh god, I forgot that Bach has a stupid Pseudogerman first name.  Although it seems to be only attested as a surname, so combined with “Bach”? Probably a nom de guerre or religious name. e: Also, drat, seeing Grout’s ramblings in writing makes me respect him a gently caress of a lot more. GrimRevenant fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Mar 11, 2014 |
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 11:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:17 |
|
|
quote:Another unfortunate casualty to tide of time: Insane Asylums. I lament their loss not only as brokerage houses for the breadth and depth of human psychoses, but also I shall mourn the disappearance of that peculiar environment present only in an insane asylum. That palpable atmosphere of blistered brains and churning bowels, the odiferous melange of freely flowing bodily humours, that gently rolling cacophony of distant sobs and screams, the muttered cursing of perceived enemies and the blissful gurgling of the lobotomized. Like a new-born babe discovering the sky. I always thought that Grout seemed to have been pretty unhinged in a way even before his embrace.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 11:54
|
|
|
System Metternich posted:I always thought that Grout seemed to have been pretty unhinged in a way even before his embrace. I don't think Malks embrace sane people often. While Grout didn't think much of it, there was probably a reason why the Malk turned him into a vampire. Like to the level of the Malk probably intentionally got caught so she could get closer to Grout.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 12:10
|
|
|
I'm gonna guess that the Faustian bargain was tipping the hunter off to his location in the hopes that Bach would kill off the people coming after him?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 12:32
|
|
barcoded posted:I'm gonna guess that the Faustian bargain was tipping the hunter off to his location in the hopes that Bach would kill off the people coming after him? There's a theory going around that the "friend" sending us these chess-motif messages is actually Grout, who faked his death, knowing he wasn't safe in his mansion anymore. The recordings were a way to feed the player character information he should know and set up a picture that would both have Grout's death seem definite and set the PC towards mistrusting LaCroix (it's never confirmed the vamp Grout is talking about is LaCroix, but the connection is apparent). Assuming he knew there were both vampires and humans coming to get him, the fire the hunters would set would both wipe out the recordings (that would have proven his anti-Camarilla sentiments, which would have maken him a persona non grata at best and staked outside watching the sunrise at worst) and ensure whoever found his "remains" wouldn't have enough time to analyze them in greater detail. However, discussing this theory will have to wait, as a few spoilerriffic factoids also play into the bigger picture. I believe in this theory, and the way I see it, the "Faustian bargain" was sacrificing his wife to the flames. For Grout, the last true remnant of his humanity/soul was his wife. He knows that if his faked death was to hold any merit, he'd have to leave her in the mansion, as otherwise, the assumption he fled would be obvious. So he gave up what was left of his soul for continued immortality. Sounds pretty Faustian to me. Mentioning that he took measures to save his wife was a red herring, laid out to make it seem like he was surprised by the assassins.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 14:16
|
|
|
I thought the emails were sent by Jack as a way to goad you on and stir up trouble, because that's his MO.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 14:24
|
|
Boogle posted:I thought the emails were sent by Jack as a way to goad you on and stir up trouble, because that's his MO. Would he really be so subtle, though? It doesn't seem like Jack to be sending you cryptic messages with a chess motif that are a bit prophetic. And that's another thing that points towards Grout - as a Malk, writing prophetic poo poo would be right up his alley.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 14:32
|
|
|
TheMcD posted:Would he really be so subtle, though? It doesn't seem like Jack to be sending you cryptic messages with a chess motif that are a bit prophetic. And that's another thing that points towards Grout - as a Malk, writing prophetic poo poo would be right up his alley. There is one other person who could potentially be sending us those messages. It's the other person in the final cinematic of the game. Not going to say more because of thread rules.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 14:53
|
|
|
TheMcD posted:There's a theory going around that the "friend" sending us these chess-motif messages is actually Grout, who faked his death, knowing he wasn't safe in his mansion anymore. I've never heard of this theory before, but I love it. It's crazy and convoluted to be sure, but then so is everything else in this game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 14:59
|
|
|
So far the Malks are by far the most fun faction in this game. I especially love the "Heeeeere's Johnny!" alternate-text a few updates back, while talking to a dude named Carson immediately before you started the "The Shining" segment. Is there any way to say "gently caress LaCroix, gently caress the Anarchs, I want to hang out with you guys instead" as a non-Malk? What about in the tabletop game, can you be a Malk-fetishist or whatever?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 15:14
|
|
|
Kytrarewn posted:So far the Malks are by far the most fun faction in this game. I especially love the "Heeeeere's Johnny!" alternate-text a few updates back, while talking to a dude named Carson immediately before you started the "The Shining" segment. What do you mean? Who do you want to hang with if not LaCroix nor the Anarchs?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 15:26
|
|
|
I'm assuming getting too close to those wacky, fun loving malks might get you turned into bloodpacks of vitae in some primogen's basement.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 15:49
|
|
|
barcoded posted:I'm assuming getting too close to those wacky, fun loving malks might get you turned into bloodpacks of vitae in some primogen's basement. I've never understood what those bags of "elder vitae" were supposed to be. Blood packs and blue blood packs are somewhat understandable. But elder vitae? Did someone drain a vampire elder and sell the blood on ebay?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 15:58
|
|
|
double nine posted:I've never understood what those bags of "elder vitae" were supposed to be. Blood packs and blue blood packs are somewhat understandable. But elder vitae? Did someone drain a vampire elder and sell the blood on ebay? It can happen, but it's generally only done by mages. You see, vampire blood can be used to make magical artifacts. So if you're a couple of greedy badasses, you can, in fact, murder an elder and his retinue and turn them into delicious tass. Considering that Grout's mansion has an item that seems to be associated with the Verbena and his studies of vampirism, he may have associations with mages on either side. Favors for favors and all that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 16:05
|
|
|
MJ12 posted:It can happen, but it's generally only done by mages. You see, vampire blood can be used to make magical artifacts. So if you're a couple of greedy badasses, you can, in fact, murder an elder and his retinue and turn them into delicious tass. Thing is, once you've found a bloodpack type, like blue blood but also elder vitae, it becomes available for purchase at the blood bank (and maybe mercurio? Not sure). In other words, Vandal has the resources to get these packs regularly - you can buy as many as you have cash on your character.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
I'm guessing this is where I floated off from the game and stopped playing, this mansion's a new one on me!  I was already expecting a "asylum subject Embraced by a Malkavian convinces himself that he's a psychologist" angle when you were going into this mansion. The presence of the wife throws a wrench into that, but I like how they wrote Grout anyway. Especially the brain in the jar, that's a nice touch. edit: Also amusing how, because he was a Malkavian who can still talk just fine, he immediately got the job of being the territory's Malk' representative. "Holy poo poo, you're still normal? You're hired!" "drat it all, now I'm doing it too..." 
tlarn fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Mar 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 16:34
|
|
|
double nine posted:In other words, Vandal has the resources to get these packs regularly - you can buy as many as you have cash on your character. Look, man, being an elder isn't all puppies and rainbows. With the economy the way it is not a lot of people are looking for older workers, especially if you can only work nights and your CV hasn't been updated since 1647. Sometimes things get a little tight around the first of the month. You do what you gotta do. Don't judge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
double nine posted:Thing is, once you've found a bloodpack type, like blue blood but also elder vitae, it becomes available for purchase at the blood bank (and maybe mercurio? Not sure). In other words, Vandal has the resources to get these packs regularly - you can buy as many as you have cash on your character. I assume that's a gameplay conceit so you don't just hoard your elder bloodpacks because they're irreplaceable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 16:40
|
|
|
double nine posted:I've never understood what those bags of "elder vitae" were supposed to be. Blood packs and blue blood packs are somewhat understandable. But elder vitae? Did someone drain a vampire elder and sell the blood on ebay? Blood has varying degrees of quality, and you don't have to be a ventrue to appreciate it. Animal blood is barely tolerable, human blood ranges depending on the health (and some would say, "breeding") of the person. Then you have Kindred blood. Vampire blood is really tasty. In fact, the Assamite clan flaw is that they can easily become addicted to vampiric vitae. Of course, your big problem with that is that if you drink it from the same host on three separate nights, you can become blood bound. Still, some kindred throw caution to the wind and revel in the sweet taste. Elder vitae can pack a strong punch, and depending on the generation and ST it could wake a younger vamp from torpor or provide other bonuses. Storing it in a blood bag in a freezer is a modern convenience. That said, having it "on tap" a la Vandal is not very realistic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 16:48
|
|
|
tlarn posted:I'm guessing this is where I floated off from the game and stopped playing, this mansion's a new one on me! I thought he was asylum staff that got embraced by a subject (which subsequently got sunburnt)
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 16:48
|
|
|
TheMcD posted:I believe in this theory, and the way I see it, the "Faustian bargain" was sacrificing his wife to the flames. For Grout, the last true remnant of his humanity/soul was his wife. He knows that if his faked death was to hold any merit, he'd have to leave her in the mansion, as otherwise, the assumption he fled would be obvious. So he gave up what was left of his soul for continued immortality. Sounds pretty Faustian to me. Mentioning that he took measures to save his wife was a red herring, laid out to make it seem like he was surprised by the assassins. That or he fireproofed her bottle. As for Grout's dementia, he seems awfully fascinated by the pain and suffering in an asylum. I'm not sure what exactly that points to, but I have no doubt it's enough for any Malkavian.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
The "light" puzzle is simple, you just pull the stick with the symbol associated with Mind, Perception or Time in the order they appear with a capitalized first letter in the missive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
TheMcD posted:Would he really be so subtle, though? It doesn't seem like Jack to be sending you cryptic messages with a chess motif that are a bit prophetic. And that's another thing that points towards Grout - as a Malk, writing prophetic poo poo would be right up his alley. I always thought it could be Rosa, that oracle on the beach. I'm not if it's probable or not, since she might not have access to a computer, but still. And I like your theory about Grout faking his own death. We should remember that when we found Grout, he was already a pile of ash. How long would it take for a vampire to turn into ash after being staked? Presumably more time than between when we saw Nines leave the mansion and when we found Grout, but it might depend on how long Grout went without feeding. There are no windows or access to sunlight in that room, so that couldn't have been it. If Grout was already dead, then that might explain why Nines was acting so weird.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 21:53
|
|
|
gatz posted:I always thought it could be Rosa, that oracle on the beach. I'm not if it's probable or not, since she might not have access to a computer, but still. Vampires in WoD don't actually die from being staked. They "just" suffer paralysis until the stake is removed. That's why, in the very beginning cutscene, the Prince's goons burst in and immediately stake both you and your sire, in order to drag you to court. So the reason Grout was a pile of ashes with a stake in the middle was that someone paralyzed him to make sure he couldn't retaliate, and then killed him. Otherwise you'd be dealing with a really pissed off, mentally ill on top of that ancilla who's been stuck for a while on his bed. Another interesting thing about his recordings is that they'd be actual at the beginning of the 20th century, but I'm quite sure they wouldn't sound so great. But it's pretty easy to overlook the anachronism because 1. those recordings burst with character and (kinda related) 2. they help give character to Grout without you ever need him to see him alive. I also can't really think of Grout sounding any other way, on a side note.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 22:05
|
|
gatz posted:We should remember that when we found Grout, he was already a pile of ash. How long would it take for a vampire to turn into ash after being staked? That's another point in the theory, although I need somebody more versed in the rules of VTM to back me up here. According to the theory, Grout as a human was active in the 1800's, which comes from a different interpretation of his recordings, in that they are recently made recordings of what might have been diary entries before, once again, laid out in such a way that they give you sort of a biography of Grout as you comb through his mansion. So that would place the statement about Freud and his Embrace closer to where Freud wrote his big theses (1900s to 1930s), which would place Grout's Embrace somewhere around the 1850s to 1880s. And according to the theory, a vampire that old would actually not leave a skeleton behind when he died. I have no idea if that's true, but everything else seems sound, so I see no real reason to doubt that part, though I still attach that caveat since I don't know entirely. As for Rosa, I have no idea. She's sort of this pseudo-enigma, pseudo-developer-insert that is too marred in mystery to fit properly into any real theory.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
mortons stork posted:Vampires in WoD don't actually die from being staked. They "just" suffer paralysis until the stake is removed. That's why, in the very beginning cutscene, the Prince's goons burst in and immediately stake both you and your sire, in order to drag you to court. I know, that's why I didn't say that being staked would kill him. I implied that starving to death or something else would have had to do the trick. quote:So the reason Grout was a pile of ashes with a stake in the middle was that someone paralyzed him to make sure he couldn't retaliate, and then killed him. Otherwise you'd be dealing with a really pissed off, mentally ill on top of that ancilla who's been stuck for a while on his bed. Are you sure? He was chained to the bed, as well. I don't know, maybe you're right. It's impossible to be sure from what we know. TheMcD posted:And according to the theory, a vampire that old would actually not leave a skeleton behind when he died. I have no idea if that's true, but everything else seems sound, so I see no real reason to doubt that part, though I still attach that caveat since I don't know entirely. Any oWoD experts want to chime in on this? gatz fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Mar 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
gatz posted:I know, that's why I didn't say that being staked would kill him. I implied that starving to death or something else would have had to do the trick. Starving the guy would only result in him falling into torpor. In general, vampires are remarkably resilient and won't just die off on their own. Unless external factors come in they will either wake up or slumber for a variable amount of time; so long as sunlight doesn't burn them or some ill-intentioned fellow beats them or shoots them to death, they won't simply succumb naturally.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 22:15
|
|
|
mortons stork posted:Starving the guy would only result in him falling into torpor. In general, vampires are remarkably resilient and won't just die off on their own. Unless external factors come in they will either wake up or slumber for a variable amount of time; so long as sunlight doesn't burn them or some ill-intentioned fellow beats them or shoots them to death, they won't simply succumb naturally. Oh, well shoot, there goes my idea. double nine posted:I've never understood what those bags of "elder vitae" were supposed to be. Blood packs and blue blood packs are somewhat understandable. But elder vitae? Did someone drain a vampire elder and sell the blood on ebay? In Redemption, humans sold them in stores.  To be fair, there were also around a million vampires you had to fight your way through in Redemption, so I don't think the developers really thought things out. How could all of those vampires have been up and around? There's not enough blood to go around.
gatz fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 22:18
|
|
mortons stork posted:Starving the guy would only result in him falling into torpor. In general, vampires are remarkably resilient and won't just die off on their own. Unless external factors come in they will either wake up or slumber for a variable amount of time; so long as sunlight doesn't burn them or some ill-intentioned fellow beats them or shoots them to death, they won't simply succumb naturally. Well, once he's staked, shooting him to Final Death is a formality, given enough ammo. Of course, we don't know if that happened, since we didn't have time to check out the murder scene due to a surprise flooding by a certain river. The way Nines was rattled when we met him means that something didn't go the way he thought it would, and a pile of ash being there where he expected a primogen to be would be a pretty good thing to not go the way he planned, regardless of his motive in being there. Both Nines and Bach were surprised that Grout is dead, so somebody got to him first - or he ended up tricking everybody coming for him, if we're following the theory I threw out.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 22:21
|
|
|
gatz posted:Any oWoD experts want to chime in on this? Depends on generation, manner of death, and how old the vampire in question is. If they're killed by decapitation or the claws of a Werewolf or something similar the body decays as a corpse that the vampire's age would. So a one week old Kindred who was killed would leave behind a rotting corpse, and any vampire over five or so years old would turn into a pile of dry bones, and anyone more than 300 or so years old would turn to dust. Vampires exposed to fire or sunlight can burn up completely.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 22:25
|
|
|
Professor Grout's voice actor is J. Grant Albrecht, who's lent his voice to lots of cartoons, but is notable for doing Death Metal (boss #10) in NO MORE HEROES, Crypto 137 (the player character) in NO MORE HUMANS!, and The End (Ancient Sniper) in METAL GEAR SOLID 3: SNAKE EATER.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 23:12
|
|
|
I can't find the sound files for Grout's tapes, or else I would upload them to tindeck.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 23:20
|
|
|
gatz posted:I can't find the sound files for Grout's tapes, or else I would upload them to tindeck. This seems to be his recordings stitched together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn-O1HmlvgI
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 23:28
|
|
|
Yeah but I'd rather not embed a youtube video if I can help it. Thumbnail spoilers and whatnot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 23:32
|
|
gatz posted:I can't find the sound files for Grout's tapes, or else I would upload them to tindeck. You should maybe add a snippet of Bach's voice acting too, because his pseudo-German accent is just wonderful - at least it is to me, as a German. If I may suggest one line in particular, it'd be one where he says "LaCroix", I think he pronounces it rather interestingly. TheMcD fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Mar 11, 2014 |
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 23:32
|
|
|
MJ12 posted:It can happen, but it's generally only done by mages. You see, vampire blood can be used to make magical artifacts. So if you're a couple of greedy badasses, you can, in fact, murder an elder and his retinue and turn them into delicious tass. So what're the paradox rules for mages fighting vampires? I assume the vampires know enough about the real workings of the world to not induce paradox if a mage throws a fireball but who knows.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2014 01:19
|
|
|
gatz posted:
If I recall properly, I think that's one of the points of the Dark Ages setting in WoD, though. That the vampires are openly flaunting their powers and have outbred their food supply and so there are a bunch of twitchy, obvious predators dancing ever closer to when they eventually set the humans off, the humans unite, beat the piss out of them, and force them into the Masquerade.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2014 01:24
|
|
|
A Curvy Goonette posted:So what're the paradox rules for mages fighting vampires? I assume the vampires know enough about the real workings of the world to not induce paradox if a mage throws a fireball but who knows. There are three inherent difficulty modifiers on magick: coincidental, vulgar without witnesses, and vulgar with witnesses. Vampires are not considered a "witness" for purposes of magick use. If you toast one with a fireball, you still automatically get Paradox, but it isn't as difficult as it would be if there was a totally normal dude in the room. They may have messed with it in later versions, but a vampire going head-to-head against a mage who knows any combat magick whatsoever is hosed unless that vampire wins initiative.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
TheMcD posted:There's a theory going around that the "friend" sending us these chess-motif messages is actually Grout, who faked his death, knowing he wasn't safe in his mansion anymore. So are Malkavians more given or less given to elaborate schemes than the rest of the vampires?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:17 |
|
Glazius posted:So are Malkavians more given or less given to elaborate schemes than the rest of the vampires? I would say it depends from Malk to Malk. The access to their network obviously should make elaborate schemes easier because of a larger amount of information, but sorting through the information and using it correctly requires a somewhat lucid mind, which is obviously rare when it comes to Malks. I think Grout is one of the rare cases where the madness manifested in such a way that it didn't interfere with the planning of such an elaborate scheme (extreme paranoia?) and where the mind of the person that was embraced was both already somewhat used to madness (having worked in some way in an insane asylum) and was very intelligent at the same time. Put everything together, and he's a great candidate for pulling off some extreme gambit that needs several seemingly random things to go right, and everything goes right because he knows it would go right.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2014 02:43
|
|