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Pierzak posted:Another reason why I never took drugs is that I don't believe in any kind of lessened responsibility when drunk/high/whatever. Drugs make people do stupid poo poo they have to deal with afterwards, whether it's making a fool of oneself or doing horrible things to get the next fix. Agreeing to use them would probably break me when it'd come to judging myself for the consequences. And if we're talking about prescription meds for depression or other disorders, I say it's a case of trying to fix an already broken machine, so it's a lesser evil (I "took my courage", but it was still a horrible experience, I said I'm not taking this poo poo and I'll either fix myself or die. Not gonna blame those who take the pharmaceutical crutch). Christ you're making it sound like smoking pot once in a while makes you a dope fiend from The Wire. If you drink/take (safe) drugs in a responsible way, you never end up doing poo poo you regret. It isn't a binary choice between NEVER DRINKING EVER NOPE and I AM A RAGING ALCOHOLIC WHO BEATS HIS WIFE/CHILD/CAT. There is a middle ground. Drugs don't make people do stupid poo poo. People do stupid poo poo. If you get into it with the intention of getting mindlessly hosed up and then do something stupid, you're 100% at fault because you're an adult and the responsibility lies with you to not let it get to that stage in the first place. Most people have no idea how to moderate their consumption of anything, drugs/alcohol or otherwise.
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Mar 12, 2014 00:27
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No Gravitas posted:
I'm glad that works for you. I'll be over here with my antianxiety meds so that my life is marginally less terrifying and I'm less likely to immediately jump to 'I can't get in touch with someone, he might be dead'.
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Mar 12, 2014 00:30
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No Gravitas posted:And people often think I'm anti-psychiatry for that too. Sheesh. I'm not. Some take their pills, I choose to take my courage. You piece of poo poo
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Mar 12, 2014 00:49
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No Gravitas posted:And people often think I'm anti-psychiatry for that too. Sheesh. I'm not. Some take their pills, I choose to take my courage. That is an ignorant and incredibly unkind thing to say of people who take medication. It requires some serious courage to take a personal inventory and admit that you have a problem and that you need help. Now, maybe they 'need' it, maybe they don't, but who are we to judge? Keep in mind, I say that as a person who is wary of over-prescription and the pharmaceutical industrial complex, and I would never willingly take antidepressants. I am just fortunate enough that I don't have to.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:13
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AAAAA posted:You piece of poo poo What Gravitas said was certainly worded poorly at the very least, but let's try not to jump straight to personal insults, please.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:17
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I've never been drunk, though I don't mind a drink now a then. Caffeine is not a big part of my life, I might grab an energy drink on the weekend, but other than that it's Black Tea, or Earl Grey Tea. I would never try anything illegal though, I just don't like the other parts of the lifestyle that come with it. As for medication for brain chemistry? I know without it, my Mother most likely would have killed herself after dad passed away. I wish that more people would look at things like depression as a real illness, and not something like 'lacking courage'.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:51
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No Gravitas posted:And people often think I'm anti-psychiatry for that too. Sheesh. I'm not. Some take their pills, I choose to take my courage. You do understand that the "I'm (strong/tough/'courageous') enough to not need medication" meme is some straight up insidious poo poo that has killed people, right?
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Mar 12, 2014 02:19
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No Gravitas posted:Some take their pills, I choose to take my courage. This is at best unthinking and poorly phrased, and at worst incredibly lovely. What's the difference between people who need psychiatric drugs to live and people who need other medical drugs to live? One group is stigmatized for no good reason. That's it. Should diabetics who need insulin to live instead just "take courage"? No, that would be stupid, and anyone thinking about it for a few seconds can see it's stupid. And yet there's this pervasive idea that people on psychiatrics are week or not trying hard enough or something. It's awful.
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Mar 12, 2014 02:28
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:What Gravitas said was certainly worded poorly at the very least... Perhaps he was having a very bad day...
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Mar 12, 2014 02:28
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SystemLogoff posted:I've never been drunk, though I don't mind a drink now a then. Caffeine is not a big part of my life, I might grab an energy drink on the weekend, but other than that it's Black Tea, or Earl Grey Tea. You know tea has caffeine in it, right? About the same amount per cup as instant coffee (although, like regular coffee, it depends on how it's made).
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Mar 12, 2014 03:32
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I drink beer or wine when I can share it in good company. Mead is also pretty good. I used to drink some beers when out with people to get rid of my inhibitions enough to actually talk to them, but I've gotten better at social skills since. I still like the taste, so I drink from time to time, but it's pretty rare. Strong alcohol never really appealed to me, since it kicks (me?) so hard that the only way to drink it seems to be for getting drunk rather than for any kind of taste. I did get drunk a couple of times, enough to not want to do it again. I've never tried drugs and I'm not sure if I would if given a chance. Consciously messing with your own brain just for a kick seems like too much risk and too little reward. I also hate the smell of cigarettes, but that might just be the memory of my parents smoking when I was a kid and constantly complaining about wanting to quit. Both have quit a good couple of years ago, but the (rightly) bad association remained. I do, however, admit to escaping into video games. And let's plays. (Thanks for making an LP that's about so much more than the game.) Edit: I guess I also used to believe a version of the thing about powering through without meds. I'm pretty healthy, so it only came up with headaches, muscle strain and such, which might explain why it ever seemed like a sensible notion. I've never been diagnosed with or treated for any mental disorder, but a couple of my close friends take/have taken antidepressants. I guess it's thanks to that that I now realise that sometimes it's the only or the best way. Basic empathy aside, it might yet save my health from my dumbness someday. Aithon fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 03:40
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Tiggum posted:You know tea has caffeine in it, right? About the same amount per cup as instant coffee (although, like regular coffee, it depends on how it's made). I know, I may have poorly phrased that passage. I mean that during the day I may have a small cup of tea, of black or earl grey. Although, now you have me curious about caffeine levels in tea vs coffee. Fake edit: Tea is still lower, but it can be about as high as half of instant coffee. Who knew?
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Mar 12, 2014 05:09
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Some tea has caffeine levels on the side comparing various types and coffee, at least Lipton brand ones I've seen.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:27
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Speaking as someone who sells loose-leaf tea, caffeine levels can vary widely between strains. Typically black tea has the highest levels, but certain crops of green or white tea can match them (although most have lower amounts). Then there's "tea" that consists only of fruit, spices and/or herbs and those will typically have none at all. Most of the time though they can't match coffee for caffeine levels, at least not without drinking multiple cups. Also, as much as I appreciate discussion of personal drug use and the experiences associated with them, we should keep in mind that it's a topic rife with ignorance and misinformation. Understanding of an illicit drug's effects on a person is hard to reach without direct or second-hand experience, which becomes much more difficult to find as you get into harder drugs or more specialized medications. Personally I regularly smoke pot and drink, and I'm also taking medication for depression/anxiety. These both have their benefits and their drawbacks and I can confidently say that I have pursued some drugs to excess without understanding the consequences before hand, but I can't say that I've had consistent experiences with either illicit or pharmaceutical drugs (thinking the former to be without repercussions and the latter to inevitably be associated with specific negative side effects, neither of which are true). So we shouldn't be quick to assume that when someone like Gravitas frames their experiences in terms of personal weakness and strength that he's extending this judgment to others out of malice, only out of limited personal exposure. We best understand things we've experienced but we're all guilty of making judgments about things that we haven't. Eumenides fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 05:40
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He's doing it because he's autistic, and we do that kind of poo poo when we don't think it through. So everyone else: I'd appreciate if you'd not dogpile him. With that said: Watch your sweeping statements, Gravitas! This is like Autism 101 here ferchrissakes. 
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Mar 12, 2014 07:39
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No Gravitas posted:And people often think I'm anti-psychiatry for that too. Sheesh. I'm not. Some take their pills, I choose to take my courage. Trick Question posted:You do understand that the "I'm (strong/tough/'courageous') enough to not need medication" meme is some straight up insidious poo poo that has killed people, right? 
Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 08:15
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No Gravitas posted:And people often think I'm anti-psychiatry for that too. Sheesh. I'm not. Some take their pills, I choose to take my courage. There are things that "courage" will not fix.
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Mar 12, 2014 09:33
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Slavvy posted:Christ you're making it sound like smoking pot once in a while makes you a dope fiend from The Wire. If you drink/take (safe) drugs in a responsible way, you never end up doing poo poo you regret. It isn't a binary choice between NEVER DRINKING EVER NOPE and I AM A RAGING ALCOHOLIC WHO BEATS HIS WIFE/CHILD/CAT. There is a middle ground. Well, my experience is of people who get hosed up by/with the help of drugs (in which case I'm with you, if you know you're likely to do stupid poo poo on drugs then you simply don't take them), or people just smoking weed once in a while, which I don't consider automatically making you crazy - but think it's still stupid for other reasons because you're still voluntarily poisoning your body (and no, I don't understand the appeal of tobacco smoking or alcohol intoxication either).
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Mar 12, 2014 12:38
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My worst drug is probably stuff like energy drinks and the like, so while No Gravitas said "I choose my courage" is incredibly seeming like he is making GBS threads on people who need drugs that kinda flies in the face of the choice of words "choose". If you need drugs, you need drugs and if life has taken a big poo poo on you, sometimes it is no longer a choice, but a necessity. And then it is no longer a matter of choice. Is how I see it, anyway. I understand peer pressure from an early age can be sort of convincing in this aspect, but I was a smart kid, I guess and I knew about it and stood my ground when it came up, because I didn't want to get into it. Curiousity was never there for me, I was fairly lucky, I guess, though I can't say everything has been 100% dance on roses either. It just came down to what do I want to stand for and I decided to against the rest of my school and not smoke and not drink. To this day, I drink maybe twice a year, usually only if there is cause of celebration. But it doesn't have anything to do with me being a control-freak, I just think the downsides of drugs are potentially scarier than any upside that would do for me. Oh, I guess games are fun, but they aren't an addiction for me to what I see some people induldge into it.
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Mar 12, 2014 12:55
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Sick NPC posted:Be sure to wash your vegetables. I'm sure that's how I got it.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:05
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DatonKallandor posted:That's a neat line, considering washing her vegetables is probably how she got it, since it's in the water. This wouldn't have happened if she only drank pure grain alcohol and rainwater!
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Mar 12, 2014 14:07
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Prav posted:rainwater! VVV: You mean chemtrails 
Pierzak fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 14:20
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Pierzak posted:Unless the plague is being sprayed from government aircraft at the time Contrails. Which would also be a good Corner topic!
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Mar 12, 2014 14:28
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I think that the virus gets distributed using several carriers, not just tapwater. That way it becomes less easy to pinpoint the source of the contagion. Later on in the game there is text about (I think) using black helicopters to spray the virus across the US.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:35
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I can definitely sympathize with the idea of wanting to keep control of one's mental state. It is a false comfort though, as our states of mind are incredibly mutable, frighteningly so. Senility, alzheimers, brain injuries... we'll all end up changing if we live long enough. On a more positive note, things as simple as physical exertion, sex or a large meal can have a profound effect on mood and self awareness. We are to some degree self-medicating simply by going through our daily schedule.Mordaedil posted:I understand peer pressure from an early age can be sort of convincing in this aspect, but I was a smart kid, I guess and I knew about it and stood my ground when it came up, because I didn't want to get into it. Curiousity was never there for me, I was fairly lucky, I guess, though I can't say everything has been 100% dance on roses either. It just came down to what do I want to stand for and I decided to against the rest of my school and not smoke and not drink. Peer pressure undeniably does a lot of harm, but on the flipside I think it's incredibly important that one learns to use drugs responsibly in a social context. Without some decent education and reliable, experienced friends, any drug (ESPECIALLY alchohol) can be very dangerous and lead to regrettable accidents. My experience at University in North America was eye opening. Some students came from fairly puritanical or straight laced backgrounds, and their experiments with alchohol were disastrous. There have even been several preventable deaths in my hometown involving drunk students falling to their death.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:54
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Fruits of the sea posted:Peer pressure undeniably does a lot of harm, but on the flipside I think it's incredibly important that one learns to use drugs responsibly in a social context. Without some decent education and reliable, experienced friends, any drug (ESPECIALLY alchohol) can be very dangerous and lead to regrettable accidents. My experience at University in North America was eye opening. Some students came from fairly puritanical or straight laced backgrounds, and their experiments with alchohol were disastrous. There have even been several preventable deaths in my hometown involving drunk students falling to their death. Are you american? That strikes me as a very american attitude: "These people died from using X - clearly X is not to blame, but rather people should have access to X sooner to learn how to handle it."
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Mar 12, 2014 15:53
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All I know is that these powdered Atlantean power crystal pills that I got from the internet are the only thing that keep my Morgellons in check. Whenever I see chemtrails in the sky I curse the reptoid shadow government that gave me this foul medical condition.
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Mar 12, 2014 15:54
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DatonKallandor posted:Are you american? That strikes me as a very american attitude: "These people died from using X - clearly X is not to blame, but rather people should have access to X sooner to learn how to handle it." In World War I American troops were told to practice abstinence; venereal diseases were rampant through the trenches. In World War II, American troops were told to practice abstinence but they handed out condoms anyway; STD's were not a major issue. Your penis is not going to shrivel up if you never use it, but if you do use it, you need to put a condom on your loving dick, and that's not such an obvious fact that kids who don't know what condoms are will still remember to use them. If someone wants to avoid alcohol and drugs, they can avoid alcohol and drugs. That's fine. But if they wind up drinking anyway, then being completely ignorant of how to drink safely and in moderation is extremely dangerous, and someone raised in an environment without any context or knowledge of alcohol or drugs is going to be ignorant.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:33
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DatonKallandor posted:Are you american? That strikes me as a very american attitude: "These people died from using X - clearly X is not to blame, but rather people should have access to X sooner to learn how to handle it." Really? It strikes me as a very European attitude, where children are encouraged to have sips of their parents' beverages. The phrase "died from using x" is loaded. If x isn't to blame, then the first statement is false. Just because people die from things doesn't mean we should automatically ban them. A person with a death wish, for example, is gonna get hisself dead, no matter what society bans. And as for where we draw the line, clearly as a society we're waaaaay too conservative with our guidelines and punishments, to the point where the punishment does more harm than the drugs.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:36
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DatonKallandor posted:Are you american? That strikes me as a very american attitude: "These people died from using X - clearly X is not to blame, but rather people should have access to X sooner to learn how to handle it." I never said anything about age, rather that people new to a drug shouldn't use without somebody more experienced and responsible present. Which does rule out a lot of teenagers, I suppose. It's interesting that you saw that as an American attitude though. My observation comes from having lived in the US, Canada and Denmark, but for the purposes of this conversation I suppose I'm Canadian. I've definitely met a lot of Canadians who were strongly in favour of deregulating alchohol, pot and even hard drugs, but its hard to tell how many there actually are outside of the artificial bubble that is 20-something college students. The debate seems more polarized in North America, that's for sure. Alchohol is a common part of family meals here in Denmark and supervised injection sites and open pot markets are allowed to exist, albeit grudgingly. Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 16:38
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Agent Interrobang posted:The trick is to realize drugs AREN'T for everybody. Any decently experienced head will tell you you don't give certain kinds of drugs to certain personality types; for example, I should never, ever, ever do downers of any kind besides alcohol. And for some people, the need to feel in control of their perceptions and actions FAR outweighs any of the new experiences that drug use can bring. And you know what? That's fine. I have zero issue with straight edge people; some of my best friends are straight edge. It takes all kinds, and I think we need whacked-out goofuses like me as much as we need grounded people to keep us from acting too much like loons. I'm just quoting this because it's really good. Small Frozen Thing posted:He's doing it because he's autistic, and we do that kind of poo poo when we don't think it through. This too. I think the dude has been thoroughly chastened at this point, come on. One thing we haven't gone into much is the way we as a society look at drugs, which is just as important as the physiological effects they have. I think the reason we end up with as many self-destructive drug users as we do has something to do with the fact that we tend to look at being addicted as a personal failing, not to mention it being illegal. Put those things together, and it's hard for people who are starting to have problems to actually go and get any help; they feel like it poses a huge social and legal risk to them, and frequently they're right.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:54
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Fruits of the sea posted:Peer pressure undeniably does a lot of harm, but on the flipside I think it's incredibly important that one learns to use drugs responsibly in a social context. Without some decent education and reliable, experienced friends, any drug (ESPECIALLY alchohol) can be very dangerous and lead to regrettable accidents. My experience at University in North America was eye opening. Some students came from fairly puritanical or straight laced backgrounds, and their experiments with alchohol were disastrous. There have even been several preventable deaths in my hometown involving drunk students falling to their death. I can agree with certain things which are rather common to social situations, but I think it becomes a slippery slope because that same line of thinking opens people up to smoking and harder drugs that are not really common context encounters today. I don't know if the social scene will be different enough in 20 years that suddenly marijuanna is just as common as smoking, but I am a bit afraid similar arguments can be made to suddenly belittle the dangers of harder drugs.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:20
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idonotlikepeas posted:
Continuing on this, I personally think part of the 'problem' with how society views drugs, at least in a purely American viewpoint, would be how we're 'educated' about drugs. And by that, I mean, for the most part, how we're NOT educated about drugs. Growing up, all I knew about pot was that it was worse then cigarettes, and that it was a gateway drug to worse drugs. Granted, the 'gateway' drug bit is still true, though for the more obvious fact that when the average 'first time' user tries pot, and sees that it's not the devil weed that propaganda labels it to be, they're no doubt bound to react "Hey, This didn't do what they said it would. I wonder what other things so and so were wrong about"
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Mar 12, 2014 18:57
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Mordaedil posted:I can agree with certain things which are rather common to social situations, but I think it becomes a slippery slope because that same line of thinking opens people up to smoking and harder drugs that are not really common context encounters today. You're right that it is a slippery slope. Educating about hard drugs could normalize them given time. Right now though, they carry such a heavy stigma that it isn't an issue in most of western society. It could take decades for that to change, so there is time to experiment and strike a balance between education and prevention. I think the supervised injection sites and methadone clinics in places like Vancouver and Copenhagen are an instructive example. They aren't nice places. Nobody who isn't already an addict would ever want to shoot up heroin there, and definitely not somebody who hasn't tried it before. The injection sites have however done a great job of educating addicts on needle use and disposal, as well as greatly reducing the rates of hepatitis and secondary infections in those populations.
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Mar 12, 2014 19:03
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Yeah, I don't think decriminalizing drugs is some sort of social panacea, but doing so allows for easier outreach and education.
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Mar 12, 2014 19:38
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Pvt.Scott posted:Yeah, I don't think decriminalizing drugs is some sort of social panacea, but doing so allows for easier outreach and education. Frankly the best reason for decriminalization has nothing to do with dealing with drug usage habits. Criminalizing drugs doesn't do much to stop people using them, but it sure as hell creates a massive income stream for organized crime. It didn't work in the 20's, and it's not working now. Crigit fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 20:32
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Crigit posted:Frankly the best reason for decriminalization has nothing to do with dealing with drug usage habits. Criminalizing drugs doesn't do much to stop people using them, but it sure as hell creates a massive income stream for organized crime. It didn't work in the 20's, and it's not working now. I live in Seattle, and the cops I know are GENUINELY THRILLED about marijuana being decriminalized because A) it stymies illegal trade, because why buy from some shady weirdo at a huge markup when you can get it cheaper and safer at a dispensary or co-op, B) it allows state taxation on it which means more money in the budget, and C) it means very significant amounts of money freed up in the EXISTING budget that doesn't need to be spent loving over categorically non-violent offenders, and can instead be re-tasked towards things like following up on crimes with actual victims. Cops here LOVE marijuana being decriminalized, because it makes their jobs easier and better-funded. I absolutely believe that some drugs should definitely be illegal. For example, I've experienced PCP first hand; nobody should have that stuff. But the more of the relatively safe drugs we legalize(and let's be clear, pot is no more harmful to you than alcohol, and arguably less so), the easier it is for the police to deal with things that are actually dangerous.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:19
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cats eat catnip, monkeys steal drinks from tourists to get drunk, elephants eat rotten fruit, and mountain goats grind their teeth into dust to eat psychotropic lichen; it's natural to want to alter our mental state. but i'm mostly here to say, don't fall for the relator propaganda, it's not Clinton, MiWa, Midtown West, or West Midtown, it's Hell's Kitchen.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:25
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That's kinda like naming a neighborhood "Literal Shithole" though, and I'm sure once gentrification booted out all the poors that had given the place character, the assholes that have it that name couldn't wait to change it.
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Mar 12, 2014 22:46
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Magil of Shadow posted:And by that, I mean, for the most part, how we're NOT educated about drugs. Growing up, all I knew about pot was that it was worse then cigarettes, and that it was a gateway drug to worse drugs. Granted, the 'gateway' drug bit is still true, though for the more obvious fact that when the average 'first time' user tries pot, and sees that it's not the devil weed that propaganda labels it to be, they're no doubt bound to react "Hey, This didn't do what they said it would. I wonder what other things so and so were wrong about" Studies have shown that the best way to prevent kids from doing drugs is to lay out information about the risks that is as close to 100% accurate as you can make it. It still doesn't have a huge effect, but it's tons better than feeding them crap they are inevitably going to find out is wrong. Nevertheless, the "scared straight" meme persists.
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Mar 12, 2014 23:56
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