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There actually are a whole bunch of Sunni Greek characters running around in-game, too! One of them almost became important in the update since he had a claim on Seljuk territory better than any of our Holy War/Imperial Reconquest CBs, but he was a eunuch so I couldn't land him to make him a vassal. 
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Mar 13, 2014 04:45
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TheFlyingLlama posted:Senator, membership in the Guiding Light has little to do with culture. We are not a party of traitors. It is about religion; we simply believe that the empire would be best served by converting to the true faith of Islam, rather than continuing to revere the Prophet Jesus as a Savior. I am a Greek, as many (Do we count those of us who want to be Roman as Greek?) of us in this Senate are, and no Religion can ever change that.  Errrr, forgive our good chums Ghetto Princes', excessive emotional display, and I greatly apologize for his asperations upon your heritage and accusation of treachery. He is very serious about the clay, you see. A very fine potter, you know. That aside, we of the Komenenian faction are always open to any who are willing to admit the divine inspiration of the Komeninan dynasty. Why, if the Jews could be wrong about Christ, might not we be wrong about Muhammed, blessed be his name? If it might serve the empire to turn to him, well. I hear there are some schools which do not shun the, small vices to which we have grown accustomed. Mayhaps we might adopt them. I mean, the whole idea of god is, like, woah. All powerful and all knowing. He's know what he was gonna do before he did it. That's like, pretty cool. And if he, did send another, well, we're just you, a buncha guys so what do we know hey? Man this is some strong stuff.
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Mar 13, 2014 05:14
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TheMcD posted:
Their foundation, perhaps, but not their spirit. While it is true what you say, their main policy of conversion to Islam collides as heavily with our own as with that of any of the four main parties, don't we share the same values when we look to the rest of it? The equality of everyone, no matter their creed? The acceptance of every tongue and religion into the Empire? Mere representation in a senate where a Greek Orthodox majority still reigns, and people like Senator Cyrahzax and Senator Prince would like nothing more than to throw the rest of us out into the streets unless we abandoned our so-called wrongness of blood, tongue and/or religion? I think it was a Varangian skald who once said: "When we look past the forest and simply gaze at the trees, what fault does one fallen pine make?"
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Mar 13, 2014 05:41
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 ##Sponsor the Italian Reconquista Act But in an Old Roman way. ##Sponsor the Nova Mediterranean Act Colchis (less learned Senators may prefer the modern name, Georgia) shares our religion and our heritage. Like the Cilicians, they must be reintegrated into the Empire, as we cannot protect our brothers in the faith nearly so well while they remain independent. Our endeavors to bring the holy word to the steppe have succeeded beyond all hopes, as well, and further expansion around the west coast of the Black Sea seems advisable. ##Sponsor the Pilgrimage Protection Act I should think this bill would require little explanation. The Turks, whatever dynasty of theirs may be in power this week, are on the ropes. The invaders from the east, though worrying, have easily cut them down to a more manageable size. The time to press our advantage is now. It's a shame I couldn't sponsor the Croatian Removal Act too! There's just so much land that's actually ours out there.
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Mar 13, 2014 06:04
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 ##Sponsor the Pilgrimage Protection Act This is everything I was hoping for when I joined this esteemed party, and I urge my fellow senators, no matter your creed, to strongly consider it. There is, truly, something for everyone to be had here: the Old Romans should see retaking the Holy Land as the first step in re-establishing our historical borders -- for did we not hold Jerusalem for centuries? Italy is scattered and weak and, frankly, likely shall be for many years yet to come. The Turks may not always be so, and they are unlikely to have such an enemy on their doorstep as they do in the Mongol hordes forever. Indeed, should the Mongol grow bold, might THEY not seize the Holy Land from beneath us? To the New Byzantines, you ought see before you an opportunity to incorporate new peoples and new ideas into our glorious Empire: the Turk, converted to the worship of Christ, is no less than any other, and might not their thoughts and ideas add to the prestige of Rome? To the Komnenians, well-- sure, fighting Sicily will score the Empress's dynasty some points, retaking Italy looks good, but there's really no bigger feather in any Christian ruler's cap than taking the Holy Land. Why do you suppose the Bishop of Rome keeps inviting half of Europe to give it a try? It belongs in Orthodox hands. It belongs in Komnenian hands. To the Discordians: please leave.
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Mar 13, 2014 06:34
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 Ordinarily, I would be all for throwing out the discordians bodily from the senate, the city and the empire. But then I realized: what good is the Circus Maximus without it's clowns?
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Mar 13, 2014 07:58
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  ## Sponsor the university construction act ## Sponsor the trilingual literacy act.
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Mar 13, 2014 08:17
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 The Old Romans (OR) Hellenic Restoration (HR) I would switch my secondary allegiance to the Hellenic Restoration, supplanting the New Marians. Sponsor: ##The Nova Mediterranean Act, ##Croatian Removal Act and ##The Pilgrimage Protection Act My fellow (Old) Romans we must certainly take back Italia, however given the leading position of that bill I encourage my fellow senators to think about sponsoring other proposals to ensure complete reunification of our glorious empire!
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Mar 13, 2014 08:59
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Hellenic Restoration people, please put your heads together and decide what main party you're in, or make three separate ones, or something.
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Mar 13, 2014 09:05
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Ghetto Prince posted:TURK GO HOME! TURK IS NOT BROTHER! ONLY ORTHODOX GREEK IS BROTHER! Honorable Senator, I think you may have confused your own party's position with that of 'Unitas.' At any rate, I'm still uncertain what it is that divides the New Byzantines from the more Discordian among us - unless perhaps it's that the New Byzantines wish to chart out a new course for the Empire without actually making anyone upset, which is... well, it's not much of a platform. Where are the 'new' initiatives that the New Byzantines profess to desire? With the Old Romans, you know where you stand - we want to take back the territory that once belonged to the Roman Empire (and should, by all rights, belong to the Roman Empire once again), that the Empire may once again return the world to a glorious age. With the Milvians, you know where you stand - they want to reform the Pentarchy and resolve the Schism. Hell, with the Komnenians you know where you stand - they want to do whatever the Komnenoi say should be done, and also apparently drink heavily. What is it that the New Byzantines stand for? I am not trying to besmirch the honor of the New Byzantine faction (well, okay, that's not all I'm trying to do), I am genuinely curious. Could some New Byzantines sit down and actually hammer out a party platform that isn't "our flag has a purple background?" Honored Senators - should you not share with the rest of your colleagues what sort of a future you envision for our Empire? Doesn't that seem like the kind of thing we should be talking about?
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Mar 13, 2014 09:30
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UNIVERSITY IS GREEK! CIVILIZATION GREEK! JESUS WAS FAMOUS GREEK! ALL GREEK! NO FOREIGNER!
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I find the other Old Romans lack of support to take back trade in the Mediterranean and to ## gently caress Genoa highly unpatriotic, and still beseech them to reconsider immediately to throw their support in.
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Mar 13, 2014 09:38
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  Discordians, True Religion's Advocates In Time Of Rebellion & Strife ##sponsor University Construction Act
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Mar 13, 2014 09:40
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It CERTAINLY doesn't make sense for Guiding light to coalition within a parent party that contains polytheists, worshiping god the wrong way is certainly more palatable than worshiping false gods, so my suggestion within guiding light is to join up with either the Komnenians or New Byzantines, depending on where the pagans end up/if either of them is willing to forbid the pagans from joining up with them.
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Mar 13, 2014 09:57
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reignonyourparade posted:
We take everyone as long as they swear to the primacy of the Komnenian line in general and the Komnenian Emper(or)/(ess) in particular. It's not in our nature to ban anyone in our party as long as they do that!
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Mar 13, 2014 10:01
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I hereby invite the Guiding Light into caucus with the Milvian party. We have much in common: Loyalty to the Empress, our devotion to the Almighty, a desire to see the Empire encompass ever-broader lands. Unlike the drunkards of the Komnenian party, we prefer sobriety: Unlike the New Byzantines, we have little tolerance for those who would devolve into pagan beliefs. Religion is our guiding principle, spreading the true word of the Almighty, correcting the mistakes of heretics, converting the heathen. These are all positions on which both our parties agree. It seems a natural fit, and all we ask in return is your conversion to the true Orthodoxy.
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Mar 13, 2014 10:10
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I must object to any attempt to include unrealistic minor parties into the New Byzantines. Converting our empress and empire to another religion is impractical at best. Literally everyone with an interest in the status quo has something to lose if conversion should take place, whether it be worldly influence or spiritual concerns. The core notion of the Guiding Light may not be not as impractical as the ideas of Hellenic Restoration or Unitas, but that's not saying very much.
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Mar 13, 2014 10:13
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Samuel posted:I find the other Old Romans lack of support to take back trade in the Mediterranean and to ## gently caress Genoa highly unpatriotic, and still beseech them to reconsider immediately to throw their support in. I'm less concerned, personally, with taking back trade as I am in taking back land; the "gently caress Genoa" proposal calls for an Embargo war, which is nice and all, but doesn't end up with Genoa back in the hands of the Empire, so I find it misses the point.
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Mar 13, 2014 10:27
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There are still plenty of lesser offerings you could hand off to us in order to shore up support (although that would probably actually be smarter for the Old Romans to do since they have more to gain): for example a bill to place any new Muslim territory under direct imperial control with guarantees of no state sanctioned conversion attempts. Its awfully hard for the five of us Guiding Light senators to support any attempt at eastward expansion when we know it'll result in local governors converting our brothers of the faith by the sword.
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Mar 13, 2014 10:30
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Rejected Fate posted:
 Fraternalists I was actually thinking we should be aligned with the The Milvians. While yes we have a lot of economic policy similar to the New Byzantines and we can certainly have a good relationship with them, bear in mind the main plank of the Fraternalists has and always be getting rid of as many DOUXS! As possible, so we've advocated more republics and bishoprics. Basically advocating the utility of these two types of vassals over DOUXS! Plus we can help the church folk get some better ecconomic policy and clout in the debate hall.
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Mar 13, 2014 11:28
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Rincewind posted:Hellenic Restoration people, please put your heads together and decide what main party you're in, or make three separate ones, or something. Hellenic Restoration (HR) Fellow Hellenists, allow me to propose a solution; shall we declare the party a cross-party faction rather than a party?
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Mar 13, 2014 11:33
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:What is it that the New Byzantines stand for? Well, if you believe the drunken ramblings of the varangians it's been said that one of their Icelandic kin centuries ago or some such that a land of vines was discovered across the sea. If the New Byzantines are looking to make a New Byzantium then this would be an ideal place to do so if we could only locate it.
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Mar 13, 2014 11:36
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Jimmy4400nav posted:
Hmm. Our interests are not incompatible, provided your devotion to the true Orthodoxy is unquestioned. As long as you are diligent and honest in your dealings, you will most likely avoid being struck down where you stand as Ananias and Sapphira were for their embezzlement of funds whilst pretending Christian unity. I could see a Fraternalist-Milvian caucus being a successful one, taking power out of the hands of the nobility, spreading the true word of the Almighty along new and prosperous trade routes, ousting the heathen Somalis and heretic Genoans from areas given to orthodox Imperial trade. We would welcome you as brothers, Fraternalists.
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Mar 13, 2014 12:09
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AJ_Impy posted:
I find this most agreeable. The Milvians of course stand for the true faith, but nonetheless that includes the removal of power from the perfidious douxes and the transferral of power to the Holy Orthodox Church who recognizes the Empress as the Vice-Gerent of Christ on Earth. While I am no great lover of merchants as merchants, merchants who understand that money must be concentrated in the hands of fine Orthodox mayors and doges as opposed to spread about among Latins and heathens would be a fine ally indeed.
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Mar 13, 2014 12:19
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Jimmy4400nav posted:
Should your support of the merchant class come on the condition of pious worship and the performance of one's holy duty, you would certainly have our full backing. There are many roles to be fulfilled in a society, and that of the merchant is among them. They do perform a necessary function. And as a Phanariote, I must admit that they serve a very important part in the transfer of knowledge across towns and realms.
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Mar 13, 2014 12:34
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Jimmy4400nav posted:
Fraternalists You speak truth, brother. I am certainly in favour of establishing bishoprics and I am not in favour of splitting the pro-republic factions further. I would like to ask my perhaps now Milvian brothers how they would feel upon the establishment of Levantine trade republics - obviously not on a Holy Site, but on a non-sacred coastal region. I believe Lebanon was suggested. It would decrease heathen and heretical presence in the holy land, allow our pilgrims access to good (with a pilgrimage discount, of course) and perhaps even offer the chance of a souvenir from their most holy travels. Obviously this souvenir would just be a novelty. I would never suggest the production of fake holy artefacts and selling them there. Or producing a line of sacrilegious "I went to Jerusalem and all I got was this lousy robe" embroidered robes. Ignore this crate next to me.
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Mar 13, 2014 13:02
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 On second thought, I'd also like to ##Sponsor The Nova Mediterranean Act EightDeer fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 13:38
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Rejected Fate posted:
Though I do not think it appropriate to operate a merchant republic on the Levant itself, I would be definitely in favour of establishing a trade republic nearby and protecting their trade in the eastern Mediterranean from foreign competition. Perhaps in western Egypt, or on the land between the Mediterranean and the Red seas? Though there should be no monetisation of the passage Moses took in his flight from Egypt.
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Mar 13, 2014 13:48
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JT Jag posted:
 Forgive me, but I must ask: how can you be loyal to the Komnenoi without being loyal to their Lord, Christ?
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Mar 13, 2014 14:03
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
Well it's not like she's banned other religions on pain of death... yet. If she did though we'd have to start vetting our membership a bit more strenuously.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:10
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
The Komnenians are too drunk to tell the Empress apart half the time and too drunk to tell the church apart the other. I don't think we need worry ourselves about them. No more than we already did anyway.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:16
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
I would assume it's easier than claiming loyalty to the Prince Of Peace while calling for war.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:42
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YF-23 posted:
I am insulted in the most deepest way possible. We are never so drunk that we do not recognize the Empress. A blind man would see that radiant figure, rather less someone merely ill done by drink. As for the church, as it is today, exists at the sufferance of the Empress. The Komnenians existed before the church and if, if mind you, the church would be supplanted, it would not alter the glory of the dynasty one whit. I suggest you tread carefully around such insinuations, senator. Oftentimes men who are unwise with words prove to be likewise so around stairs and alleyways filled with daggers. Such is the nature of the universe that those act against the dynasty and its benefit often do not live to regret it.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:23
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You dare? You would claim that the Komnenoi are older than the Church? That is could be swept away with a word?! The Komnenoi are one more disposable dynasty. Do you know how many have sat on the Throne of Caesars? Surely as many that will. The Church is different. It is the bride of Christ, the instrument of His Will on Earth. And, it just so happens that Orthodoxy is the only real Church of Christ. It is the only way any man can go to heaven to be with his true Sovereign. The Empire is an instrument of that Church, or it should be. Through it, the world will be converted and ruled in God's name. Do not equate a mere dynasty with that.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:47
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
(winces, then hurries to Deceitful Penguin's side and hurries him off the lectern) Hey, friend, remember that thing you were supposed to go to? Um, well, do that. Do that (hushed but urgent tone) and don't accidentally highlight the one shortfall of the Komnenian dynasty that they're sort of johnny come latelies who don't really trace their line to anyone of note. Ok?!
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Mar 13, 2014 17:07
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YF-23 posted:
Fraternalists Perhaps Crete? We have been told of an illustrious republic there once, perhaps we can revive it. I will admit I still hold hope for a Levant one, but I'm more than willing to compromise.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:34
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Rejected Fate posted:
Perhaps my Milvian brothers would disagree with me with regards to a Levantine republic. I do agree that Crete is well-suited for the role of a trade power in the region though.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:39
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YF-23 posted:
I proposed Lebanon when they asked for Antioch: It was a trading hub of old, it may be again. I have no qualms about one in the Levant so long as the Holy Sees are given to their Patriarchs. Crete works too.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:45
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No , no Alexios was sent by God to save Greece. Who cares if he isn't related to Charlamagne or some other barbarian. What, would you rather have a warlord from the bad old days who spends his life fighting his own doukes while the Empire burns down around him?...uhh... OOC, I think it's hilarious that our Emperors have been a bunch of incompetent assholes who spent their entire lives fighting their own dukes and just kind of lucked out in keeping the crown, while our Empresses have all been badass rulers and conquerors , hell, Iouliana was basically Richard the Lionheart. Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 17:53
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Ghetto Prince posted:
We'd have to screw around a bit to make it happen, but I'm sure we could get it done if we really wanted to.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:59
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
I must remind my fellow senators that the Muslim religion does not allow women to rule, so loyalty to our empress absolutely demands that we remain Christian. I have nothing against Islam on a theoretical level and am willing to back more modest plans, such as leaving Muslim vassals in control of some of the recently conquered lands (though their loyalty must be unquestionable and it might be best to put them under the control of an Orthodox Doux as insurance), but the Komnenoi rule the senate, not the other way around. If a man wearing the purple wished to adopt the doctrine of Mohamed (or any other faith, for that matter) we would support him against all challengers, but so long as our rulers uphold the faith of Constantine, the primacy of the Orthodox church within the empire must not be questioned. Unless the Guiding Light is willing to abandon their absurd and disloyal demand that the Komnenoi and their court convert to Islam, I'm afraid there is simply no place for them within the Komnenian party. Now quit hogging that poo poo. I'm starting to lose my buzz.
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Mar 13, 2014 18:53
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