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more friedman units posted:Why is that evasive, verbose bullshit so common? It's an epidemic. Once you realize that the writer is trying very hard to not say anything, it all makes sense. 
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Mar 12, 2014 13:48
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It's hard to explain things generally to willfully dense people. You must be very specific and exhaustive.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:02
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double post
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Mar 12, 2014 14:17
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I think there's also the mentality of one "showing" how hard they're working.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:29
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Also, if you're short and concise, people think you're an angry agressive rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:35
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evobatman posted:Also, if you're short and concise, people think you're an angry agressive rear end in a top hat. Story of my career. Wait, no... I'm actually an rear end in a top hat. Scratch that. That stupid e-mail 'do not reply' chain from like two weeks ago has started up again thanks to someone coming back from vacation. Another 200 filtered into my trash folder today. 
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Mar 12, 2014 14:50
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evobatman posted:Also, if you're short and concise, people think you're an angry agressive rear end in a top hat. When I'm short and to the point I get the above response, when i am more verbose no one reads it.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:50
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evobatman posted:Also, if you're short and concise, people think you're an angry agressive rear end in a top hat. Looks like I'll have to shorten my e-mails then.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:57
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peter banana posted:It's hard to explain things generally to willfully dense people. You must be very specific and exhaustive. Holy boats, this. I'm on a project right now where any attempt at quick email communication is met with, "I don't understand, can we have a call to discuss?" loving no, we can't, we cannot have another call. We are not having another call.
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Mar 12, 2014 15:32
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evobatman posted:Also, if you're short and concise, people think you're an angry agressive rear end in a top hat. yeah, not to bring everything back to gender roles, but this is even worse when you're a woman. I've written genuinely, and I mean genuinely short and concise emails about simple things like how to perform certain functions or even just status updates, only to have a manager come around and have a very low-spoken conversation about "softening my language" and "showing some deference." Sorry to get all Tumblr in here.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:22
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peter banana posted:yeah, not to bring everything back to gender roles, but this is even worse when you're a woman. I've written genuinely, and I mean genuinely short and concise emails about simple things like how to perform certain functions or even just status updates, only to have a manager come around and have a very low-spoken conversation about "softening my language" and "showing some deference." Sounds like you do not fit your gender roles! Get back in your role, this is your role, it was made for you... Drrrr Drrrr
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Mar 12, 2014 16:37
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Pleads posted:Holy boats, this. I'm on a project right now where any attempt at quick email communication is met with, "I don't understand, can we have a call to discuss?" loving no, we can't, we cannot have another call. We are not having another call. Holy poo poo, yes. It's gotten so bad here that "picking up the phone and having a conversation" is starting to enter corporate guidance for communication policies and we're going to get evaluated on it in our performance reviews. They're rolling out videoconferencing across the org as well. So not only do I now have to make a phone call, but I also have to go through all the fun of doing a videoconference in my open-concept hog slaughtering pit. 5 minute email threads/IM conversations about objective fact will now be 30-35 minute socialization episodes interspersed with me trying to gently caress with the mute/volume to make up for my coworkers.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:37
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Keetron posted:Sounds like you do not fit your gender roles! Get back in your role, this is your role, it was made for you... Drrrr Drrrr drat you! 
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Mar 12, 2014 16:41
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Mar 12, 2014 16:59
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more friedman units posted:Why is that evasive, verbose bullshit so common? It's an epidemic.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:34
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peter banana posted:yeah, not to bring everything back to gender roles, but this is even worse when you're a woman. I've written genuinely, and I mean genuinely short and concise emails about simple things like how to perform certain functions or even just status updates, only to have a manager come around and have a very low-spoken conversation about "softening my language" and "showing some deference." Start putting smileys in your emails. You will come off as much more friendly 
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Mar 12, 2014 19:33
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I honestly can't believe that somebody asked you to "show some deference". Is that an actual quote?
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Mar 12, 2014 19:36
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Actually in a conversation today someone asked me what I do not like about my employer and it is to be pigeonholed in a position and then reigned back in when I want to venture outside of what others might think my role is. AH well, on the other hand my boss said he is still working for our company because he has no other options until his greencard application is approved and he can get a local passport. When that gets through he is out of here faster then lightning.
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Mar 12, 2014 20:41
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quote:Dear Mrs. [not Halloween Jack]: Someone sent a letter to my house to tell a woman who definitely doesn't live here that they know she definitely doesn't live here, so could she please tell them where she lives? Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 21:23
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Halloween Jack posted:Someone sent a letter to my house to tell a woman who definitely doesn't live here that they know she definitely doesn't live here, so could she please tell them where she lives? I'm the felony obstruction of correspondence
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Mar 12, 2014 21:27
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Halloween Jack posted:Someone sent a letter to my house to tell a woman who definitely doesn't live here that they know she definitely doesn't live here, so could she please tell them where she lives? Something similar happened when my ex-stepmom moved out. She was buying/building a house and the builder kept calling/mailing my dad (her previous address/#) and he kept having to say "She's in the house that YOU BUILT FOR HER"
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Mar 12, 2014 21:49
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evobatman posted:Also, if you're short and concise, people think you're an angry agressive rear end in a top hat. All of my emails are short and to the point, and depending on the level of familiarity I don't even bother with an opener or a closer. I cannot stand getting word diarrea emails. Just give me the tl;dr, or better yet, bullet points! dxt posted:Start putting smileys in your emails. You will come off as much more friendly I was talked to by my supervisor that the international team I worked with thought I was kind of mean because of the way I wrote. I had absolutely no idea what to change so I started adding a bunch of smiley faces to my emails. Another few points on emails: I very rarely use bold or italics because I consider everything I write important. If I do ever use either it is because I've gotten ignored. Oddly, I only ever really use them with my colleagues. I use a nice black or blue 12 pt Times New Roman font. I cannot stand getting emails with some monstrously ugly font in a terrible colour. I also get emails with little to no information for me to go on. That doesn't particularly bother me as much, but if you want something urgent from me give me all of the information I need and don't get pissy with me when I ask for further information. Lastly, signatures that are a billion miles long annoy the gently caress out of me and make reading emails tremendously annoying. And if I end up having to print out an email it will inevitably have a 'save the environment' thing in it, and need a second page for the print.
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Mar 12, 2014 22:21
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I once received instruction to email another department because we needed some deliverables ASAP. Super fast, and they were late and had been slacking. So I sent something pretty mild along the lines of "Hey [team], we really need the files as soon as possible as we have to deliver them to our outside vendor immediately, so if you could let me know when we can get them, that would be great! thanks, [name]" and I got like 3 levels of poo poo from different bosses on how I can't treat their team like that and they're not slaves.
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Mar 12, 2014 22:47
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Blue_monday posted:I was talked to by my supervisor that the international team I worked with thought I was kind of mean because of the way I wrote. I had absolutely no idea what to change so I started adding a bunch of smiley faces to my emails. Here's a trick I use when I am concerned that an email might be taken the wrong way: Imagine you are pissed off and then read the email. If the email seems fine and matches this emotion, then you need to alter it.
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Mar 12, 2014 23:37
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Blue_monday posted:Lastly, signatures that are a billion miles long annoy the gently caress out of me and make reading emails tremendously annoying. And if I end up having to print out an email it will inevitably have a 'save the environment' thing in it, and need a second page for the print. I like people who put their e-mail address in their e-mail signature. These are usually the same people who put a giant image of the company logo as well. That would make sense if that person had to e-mail people from outside the company, but most of the people I work with strictly communicate internally. My signature is loving simple and it will never change. Thank you, Name Department Phone Number
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Mar 12, 2014 23:45
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Renegret posted:These are usually the same people who put a giant image of the company logo as well. That would make sense if that person had to e-mail people from outside the company,
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Mar 12, 2014 23:49
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Renegret posted:I like people who put their e-mail address in their e-mail signature. I unironically like people who put their e-mail address in their e-mail signature. Outlook doesn't necessarily display the email address when it gets forwarded. Depending on how the contact is saved in somebody's address book, it might just show their name.
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Mar 12, 2014 23:51
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Cranbe posted:I unironically like people who put their e-mail address in their e-mail signature. Outlook doesn't necessarily display the email address when it gets forwarded. Depending on how the contact is saved in somebody's address book, it might just show their name. This. Outlook is stupid and once it gets a display name in its system, it's loving impossible to scrub if you don't have admin control of your poo poo. Example: Some dude named Garry who the sales guy entered as Gary and thus had his name typo'd by the sales guy for the next 2 years of business. I burned it into my brain what his actual name was and still almost sent out the wrong spelling to him a few times. Also, corporately controlled sigs suck. Ours makes us include a small headshot. It's the dumbest thing. I manually remove it 50% of the time because I deal with just general population non-client people sometimes and they don't need my ugly mug.
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Mar 12, 2014 23:53
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Beast of Bourbon posted:I got like 3 levels of poo poo from different bosses on how I can't treat their team like that and they're not slaves. And these emails with overly verbose "word diarrhea" are a result of people not being thoughtful about what the hell it is they're trying to convey. I torture myself over email wording and frequently end up deleting half of it because it's too much information. Better to compose a lengthy email then come back in 5 or 10 minutes to start paring down unnecessary detail and get to the point. This is not like writing a college paper. It's making sure people have no way to be confused because people have no attention span or common sense. Spend an extra few minutes even on a short email and you will save yourself a load of Henny Penny headaches.
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Mar 12, 2014 23:54
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Halloween Jack posted:Would it? Well, not giant, but I've never had a problem with it otherwise when receiving from other companies.
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Mar 13, 2014 00:19
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By the same token, I've always thought it was a cheesy contrivance that adds nothing.
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Mar 13, 2014 00:46
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I have my email address in my email signature because Outlook doesn't display email addresses and doesn't auto-fill if you've never sent someone an email before. I also recently changed it so I have a big red note in my signature telling people to note the email address change because IT decided to delete my old one instead of setting up forwarding  One of my coworker's signatures is so long that even if she replies with a single line email her signature pushes the email she's replying to so far down the page that it's off the screen, even if you have Outlook maximized.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:07
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I worked at a mega corp where everyone had that stupid legal/confidential/please delete block of text, as well as the company logo and all contact info including physically address in all emails. The logo was like a 400k PNG so email threads would be giant after a couple back and forths and of course we only had a 100mb mail box. It was terrible.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:16
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Dukket posted:When I'm short and to the point I get the above response, when i am more verbose no one reads it. Short email? "Miss-Bomarc, you can't just assume that everybody knows everything. You have to work with me to solve the problem, not just throw a turd on the table and walk away!" Long email? "Miss-Bomarc, just tell me what the problem is! You send me this whole, like, scientific paper, and I can't even figure out what I'm supposed to be worried about or what I should do about it!" Medium email? "Well, if (thing) was so important to the situation then you should have mentioned (thing) in the email! We can't figure out how to proceed if you don't give us all the details!" Pleads posted:Holy boats, this. I'm on a project right now where any attempt at quick email communication is met with, "I don't understand, can we have a call to discuss?" Blue_monday posted:All of my emails are short and to the point, and depending on the level of familiarity I don't even bother with an opener or a closer. I cannot stand getting word diarrea emails. Just give me the tl;dr, or better yet, bullet points! Some people never developed past the monkey stage, where every conversation is a personal battle of wills, and they play little dominance games as though being the biggest monkey means the laws of physics stop working. Yes, I know you're leaning forward and putting your hand on my desk and shaking your head when you talk. Claiming alpha status is not going to make a two-inch bolt go through a three-inch plate. Miss-Bomarc fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 03:17
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Sundae posted:Once you realize that the writer is trying very hard to not say anything, it all makes sense. No Wave posted:It's so that you don't have to take responsibility if something goes badly. The more veiled your language, the more you get to keep the upside and write off the downside to a miscommunication or poor interpretation on the part of the worker. Cheesus posted:I think there's also the mentality of one "showing" how hard they're working. These are amazingly accurate for my company. Everything is about appearing to say and do a lot while producing nothing of value or actually being a net negative for the organization. We could cut several layers of managers and administrators from the org chart and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be missed in terms of actual completed work. No Wave posted:I honestly can't believe that somebody asked you to "show some deference". Is that an actual quote? Completely believable. Managers complain about younger employees "getting above themselves" and showing no respect for authority. Asking questions or wanting explanations for anything is borderline insubordination.
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Mar 13, 2014 03:29
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more friedman units posted:Completely believable. Managers complain about younger employees "getting above themselves" and showing no respect for authority. Asking questions or wanting explanations for anything is borderline insubordination. My mother is pushing 50 and an executive and recently her boss ( a SVP) asked her to tone down her emails to other VPs because her tone was too "aggressive" and not deferential enough.
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Mar 13, 2014 03:35
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more friedman units posted:Completely believable. Managers complain about younger employees "getting above themselves" and showing no respect for authority. Asking questions or wanting explanations for anything is borderline insubordination.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:33
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I always read over my emails to make sure they don't come off as "bitchy", even when it's actually a time when harsh wording would be called for, because I know that it would be dismissed immediately. "Deferential" really makes me tense up, that's rough.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:44
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Pleads posted:Holy boats, this. I'm on a project right now where any attempt at quick email communication is met with, "I don't understand, can we have a call to discuss?" loving no, we can't, we cannot have another call. We are not having another call. What's worse is people who say, "I have a question, when can I drop by your office so that we can discuss?" Uh, never. You can email your question to me and I will respond to it. I don't need you coming in here and rambling for 45 minutes to ask me a 12-word question. Anyway at 4:30pm today my boss pulled me into a room with one of my coworkers to say that she's fallen behind on something and needs 3+ hours of our help (each) for something due tomorrow, then told me to cancel a meeting I've been trying to book for 1.5 months (with about 20 people) that is scheduled for tomorrow (after her deadline so it doesn't even interfere) because "none of that is important." Maybe not to you... Needless to say I finished her work first and now I'm preparing for my meeting, which I intend to run as planned, thank you very much. The amount of effort I'd use re-booking this stupid meeting is waaay more than the amount I'm using working all night tonight, so whatever.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:46
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The Berzerker posted:What's worse is people who say, "I have a question, when can I drop by your office so that we can discuss?" Uh, never. You can email your question to me and I will respond to it. I don't need you coming in here and rambling for 45 minutes to ask me a 12-word question. Or even better, "I will stop by to discuss this" without giving any indication of whether it will be in the next five minutes, sometime later today, or ten minutes before the heat death of the universe.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:18
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