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Zwiftef posted:Look, either I've been explaining it poorly or your reading comprehension is atrocious. My entire point is that in some positions the SMG is an entirely viable buy at lower tiers of gameplay because most people are not able to one click aggressive players with rifles. This isn't a controversial idea, and for the majority of goons that read this thread I expect they find that the SMGs are just fine weapons. A lot of people are just repeating the accepted wisdom with having obviously never even used an SMG (such as the guy thinking it takes an entire UMP clip to kill someone at range. If you need that many bullets to get a kill with an UMP the problem is with your aiming, not the gun.) You also insisted numerous times how you and your brother can "regularly ace" players at that level with just your SMGs, implying again, that players at the mid-range level can be easily beat with SMGs, they can't. As astro said, you're condoning and advising players that are learning this game to use poo poo weapons in lieu of learning how to correctly use rifles. People that want to get out of nova ranks are going to need to learn how to buy properly, they are going to need to learn how to effectively use rifles at range, with burst, and in spray, and they are going to very easily wallop anyone that thinks they can buy an SMG all game and win. The times you see in this thread of people advocating use of SMGs come in a few varieties. 1: Drinkfist, who defies all logic and reason. 2: People ironically talking about which SMGs they love and how good they are. 3: Silvers that still don't understand SMGs are never going to win real gunfights. You don't play Goonmans, so I don't necessarily blame you for not knowing which players/posters are which skill leve/knowledge level, but you're wrong. SMGs are not a viable weapon in CS on a full buy.
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Mar 14, 2014 00:36
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I'm going to play in one of the next goonmans, buy a mp9, gently caress up cole with it (cause he's really bad at cs:go) and laugh at him, pick up his pleb rifle and exit the game.
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Mar 14, 2014 00:38
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teagone posted:Agreed. Get that off the public thread please. Shadowlz fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 00:39
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Honest question: A lot of the more experienced players in this thread say crouching doesn't help. But especially with the deagle I truly feel like I can get significantly more accurate shots (with other guns I don't notice it). Is it all in my head?
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Mar 14, 2014 00:43
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Babyface Mingo posted:I'm going to play in one of the next goonmans, buy a mp9, gently caress up cole with it (cause he's really bad at cs:go) and laugh at him, pick up his pleb rifle and exit the game. If I had any idea who you were I would be; A: worried B: not worried C: Coleman Ernie. posted:Honest question: A lot of the more experienced players in this thread say crouching doesn't help. But especially with the deagle I truly feel like I can get significantly more accurate shots (with other guns I don't notice it). Is it all in my head? Other guns, no not really. If I recall their might be a minor increase in accuracy, but the accuracy you gain is offset by your inability to move very much, making you a much easier target.
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Mar 14, 2014 00:43
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Coleman posted:If I had any idea who you were I would be; prepare to see my ballsack as i t-bag your body bitch
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Mar 14, 2014 00:44
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Ernie. posted:Honest question: A lot of the more experienced players in this thread say crouching doesn't help. But especially with the deagle I truly feel like I can get significantly more accurate shots (with other guns I don't notice it). Is it all in my head? Personally I think it hurts a lot more than it helps because of how easy it makes you to hit. When you play against silver players you'll find that they're a lot easier to kill because they'll stop moving or crouch when you get into a fire fight. Once you start playing gold AK players and up you'll find that they're constantly weaving back and forth which makes a huge difference in how hard they are to kill.
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Mar 14, 2014 00:46
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Zwiftef posted:My entire point is that in some positions the SMG is an entirely viable buy at lower tiers of gameplay because most people are not able to one click aggressive players with rifles. The UMP is never a good buy in any position if you and your team have enough money to go for rifles and it's beyond the first 3 rounds. I could see getting it if you are the one rich guy during a save round, or during a partial buy. Though a P250 is still probably a better option. It's cheaper, does more damage, and can one shot a helmet armor opponent, whereas the UMP needs 2 headshots or a headshot and 2 body shots to get a kill. If you can headshot with the ump, you can headshot with the p250.
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Mar 14, 2014 00:49
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UMP is a pretty dece weapon in terms of bang for $, but there is no valid situation in a comp match where you should be preferentially choosing it over rifles. Given the overall even better bang for $ afforded by kevlar and pistol and a complement of nades, you should never really be buying any SMG except as a guaranteed anti-eco when they have no kevlar and you can't afford a rifle. Even in that situation you are quite likely to get given a drop, or I will simply shadow a teammate rather than buy a sub-standard weapon I will soon replace. P90 is useful for certain situations though. I will say that SMGs get more utility the further down the skill ranks you go as they afford you the ability to run and gun against opponents who can't aim well.
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Mar 14, 2014 00:51
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I've always found the mp7 to be overpriced and underpowered to be honest.
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Mar 14, 2014 00:53
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UMP's a fantastic weapon for midrange and I'm not sure why you guys are saying it isn't when many pro teams make frequent use of it. It's got the most damage of any SMG and incredible first shot accuracy while moving, and given the budget buy nature of the thing it's insanely useful if you're saving. SA subscribes to the herd mentality of "oh well another goon said it and i don't want to look churlish and deplorable in front of the boys so i better accept it as truth" way more than it likes to admit.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:04
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teagone posted:Agreed. Should probably edit that out and link to the private post instead
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Mar 14, 2014 01:11
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Sithas posted:UMP's a fantastic weapon for midrange and I'm not sure why you guys are saying it isn't when many pro teams make frequent use of it. It's got the most damage of any SMG and incredible first shot accuracy while moving, and given the budget buy nature of the thing it's insanely useful if you're saving. SA subscribes to the herd mentality of "oh well another goon said it and i don't want to look churlish and deplorable in front of the boys so i better accept it as truth" way more than it likes to admit. lol NOPE.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:14
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Shadowlz posted:Get that off the public thread please. My bad, forgot games forum is public for some reason. Powerful Wizard IRL posted:Should probably edit that out and link to the private post instead Yup, swapped. 
teagone fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 01:14
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Coleman posted:1: Drinkfist, who defies all logic and reason. 4: This thread is useless when it comes to discussing CS:GO outside of ~Goonmans~ because the people who play in them have a hard time understanding how they're different than matchmaking. I'm MG1 and the guy who we queue with bounces between MG2 and MGE and top frags 75%+ of the time. On full buys he almost always picks up a UMP or P90 and kills people outside, at close range, whatever. He's dropped 30 kills on teams running subs repeatedly and is the best player on our team. I personally think that he's able to do that because he's very good at CS and running and gunning and the majority of players just aren't capable of using SMGs that effectively. On the other hand, I use AKs and M4s and play the game 'the right way' and am not nearly as good so I don't talk poo poo about his buy strategy. Whatever your opinion is, no matter how big a blowhard you want to be about it, it IS possible. I've watched it happen over hundreds of hours of gameplay at the mid/upper mid level.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:15
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Sithas posted:UMP's a fantastic weapon for midrange and I'm not sure why you guys are saying it isn't when many pro teams make frequent use of it. What. The gently caress. The only SMG I've regularly seen pro players use is the MP7. Sometimes the Bizon. But they stopped using them after the first 3 rounds of play. teagone fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 01:17
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Sithas posted:UMP's a fantastic weapon for midrange and I'm not sure why you guys are saying it isn't when many pro teams make frequent use of it. It's got the most damage of any SMG and incredible first shot accuracy while moving, and given the budget buy nature of the thing it's insanely useful if you're saving. SA subscribes to the herd mentality of "oh well another goon said it and i don't want to look churlish and deplorable in front of the boys so i better accept it as truth" way more than it likes to admit. No one said it isn't useful for save rounds. I love the UMP sometimes. The thing people were calling out was that guy was saying you should pick the ump even if you have enough money for a rifle. The UMP is not a bad gun, and has it's uses, but a rifle will always be a better choice if your team is on a buy round. Maarek posted:I'm MG1 and the guy who we queue with bounces between MG2 and MGE and top frags 75%+ of the time. On full buys he almost always picks up a UMP or P90 and kills people outside, at close range, whatever. He's dropped 30 kills on teams running subs repeatedly and is the best player on our team. The P90 I can see. The higher rank you are the less useful a P90 is, but it still gets used to some effect at higher ranks. But if your friend is consistently killing people who have rifles and top fragging while he has an ump, then he is probably underanked. I know a guy who is probably good enough to get eagle, but he is single AK because the only time he plays MM is with his silver IV and nova 3 friends. I'm sure he could run around in those games with an ump killing players who have an AK/M4/Awp, but it isn't because the ump is a good alternative to the rifles. It's because he's so much better than his opponents at that rank that he can use whatever gun he wants and get kills. Apogee15 fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 01:18
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It doesn't take a pro to know that every gun outside of an AWP or AK/m4 is a gimmick gun. SMGs have a role sure and its round 2 after you win pistol round or if you know the opposition is going to eco. Just because you get kills with a gun doesn't make it as viable as the AK/m4. And no, pros do not run around with UMPs on full buy rounds.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:19
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Maarek posted:4: This thread is useless when it comes to discussing CS:GO outside of ~Goonmans~ because the people who play in them have a hard time understanding how they're different than matchmaking. Let me get this straight; you have a friend who is so good that he can use the UMP to humiliate and belittle his opponents? I'm not sure if that is an argument for the quality of the UMP.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:20
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Maarek posted:4: This thread is useless when it comes to discussing CS:GO outside of ~Goonmans~ because the people who play in them have a hard time understanding how they're different than matchmaking. There is a lot of dubious advice in this thread at times, but preferentially choosing an SMG over a rifle is simply wrong. UMP or otherwise. If you want to improve picking up a UMP will only give you bad habits as a player.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:21
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Maarek posted:4: This thread is useless when it comes to discussing CS:GO outside of ~Goonmans~ because the people who play in them have a hard time understanding how they're different than matchmaking. This post is proof that CSGO ELO ranks aren't a good barometer for player skill or game sense.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:23
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Maarek posted:4: This thread is useless when it comes to discussing CS:GO outside of ~Goonmans~ because the people who play in them have a hard time understanding how they're different than matchmaking. You realize the counterpoint argument here is that he could do even better if he stopped playing like a child and used rifles effectively, right? Your entire argument sounds a lot like a flashing neon banner ad on csgoprotips.ru shouting The secret tip THE PROS don't want you to know. CLICK HERE!!! SMGs have the occasional anti-eco role and even then are out-performed by p250/5-7 in capable hands because at the end of the day, at high skill levels, CS is about getting reliable headshots and a gun that does 1HK will undeniably outperform a gun that does 2HK.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:25
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The ump is the gun you use that you dump a clip into someone in the hopes you get to kill him and take his better gun.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:32
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I'd take a nova over a UMP, personally.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:34
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Cuntpunch posted:You realize the counterpoint argument here is that he could do even better if he stopped playing like a child and used rifles effectively, right? Probably? The point I was making wasn't that everyone should use UMPs, it was that this thread is full of GOONMANS obsessed blowhards. It's fine to say that someone who top frags at MGE with sub machineguns might be top fragging at eagle if they used rifles instead and a few of the normal human beings in this thread seemed to be saying just that. Cuntpunch posted:Your entire argument sounds a lot like a flashing neon banner ad on csgoprotips.ru shouting [i]The secret tip THE PROS don't want you to know. Cuntpunch posted:These days I'm MM-ranked at Gold-4, but I hardly ever MM and I feel like I'm probably higher ranked than that just based on trial-by-fire in Goonmans with a lot of the really good players wiping the floor with me. These days I hardly ever give advice but I feel like I am advising people at a GLOBAL ELITE level because the ELO system can't keep up with me.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:07
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Maarek posted:4: This thread is useless when it comes to discussing CS:GO outside of ~Goonmans~ because the people who play in them have a hard time understanding how they're different than matchmaking. Our bomb timer is shorter, our round timer is shorter, we know how to buy properly? We... are capable of using real guns and not having to hold down mouse1? What is so different about matchmaking that you're under the impression makes it unique compared to Goonpug, ESEA pug, Altpug, or any of the other pug, gather, mix, and match systems? Spoiler: there isn't a difference. They're matches. They're played by various people with various different skill levels playing for various different reasons. If your next argument is, "man you just don't understand the meta game of buying an MP9 on round 10, maaaaaan". Then you're right, I don't understand why any normal CS player would handicap themselves with trash guns.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:10
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What the gently caress is going on here?! You guys are actually arguing the viability of poo poo tier weapons with what is quite obviously a noob... Edit: I'm awaiting Daeno's video on the current thread situation.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:11
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Maarek posted:Probably? The point I was making wasn't that everyone should use UMPs, it was that this thread is full of GOONMANS obsessed blowhards. It's fine to say that someone who top frags at MGE with sub machineguns might be top fragging at eagle if they used rifles instead and a few of the normal human beings in this thread seemed to be saying just that. Again, the problem has nothing to do with goonmans. The problem is taking things like "lol I have a highly ranked friend who can kill idiots in MM with an UMP" and passing it off as "you should buy UMPs because they are good" advice. There are a lot of new players in this thread now that don't know the difference between things they should actually listen to and things they should ignore. If you want to talk about fun gimmick things to do - like buying SMGs/shotguns on a regular basis - that's great, just make it clear that what you are posting about is a gimmick/atypical thing to do.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:12
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Can we all at least agree that the Bizon is a really fun round 2 anti-eco gun? Just slapped a nametag on mine labeling it "Mini-Negev :3" Sure the meta is round 2 armor and SMGs are as a result ultra-niche, but with my poo poo matchmaking level I suspect it'll be awhile before people stop buying like tards and armor eco's don't seem to be too popular in the few goonmans I've played anyway. Bizon: Best SMG. dinkdinkdinkdinkdink
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Mar 14, 2014 02:17
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I think there's a goon that has a negev named something like "Bizon for Grown-ups" 
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Mar 14, 2014 02:18
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Obstacle2 posted:It doesn't take a pro to know that every gun outside of an AWP or AK/m4 is a gimmick gun. What's your sensitivity at? Maarek posted:These days I hardly ever give advice but I feel like I am advising people at a GLOBAL ELITE level because the ELO system can't keep up with me. mcvey fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 02:18
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I don't really like the bizon that much, but I use it a lot because it's my only stattrak SMG so I feel compelled to make my stattrak number higher.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:20
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Coleman posted:There is a very small handful of the "veteran" Goons that regularly post in this thread that don't like matchmaking. I'm one of them, and I have 80 wins. There are plenty of goons with 100, 150, 200+ wins in matchmaking. Most of the people about which I'm speaking are at least double AK, some all the way up at the two Eagle ranks. Exactly which part of that group of people "doesn't understand matchmaking"? Yes, I'm sorry to have to tell you that global matchmaking matches are in fact different than pick up games from a small group of people who are, apparently, super in love with themselves. If you played both ESEA and regular matchmaking then I'm sure you noticed some differences in play style and team strategy right there, because I sure did. It's doubly weird because at the very start of your post you said that goonmans use the community competitive timers and hey look that is another thing that's very different from regular matchmaking! mcvey posted:Come play with us? No thanks, it kind of seems like a toxic community.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:22
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astr0man posted:I think there's a goon that has a negev named something like "Bizon for Grown-ups" There's a goon with a Negev that he named "YOLO-Swagalizer"  But then again he and other goons I play with frequently have terrible gun names. Our P250s have been the most recent victims of these terrible ideas with such names as "The Nanking Rapist," "Thatcher's oval office," and "Utoya Firecracker." There's an AUG named after a guy's wife. And then there's a SG553 called 'Coretta Scott King.'
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Mar 14, 2014 02:23
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As one of the poo poo-tier shooters in goonmans and a Nova2 with a mere fifty MM wins, I refuse to believe anyone at AK+ level is unironically using SMGs in a close match over a rifle. EDIT: Whoa hey shoulda tapped that refresh button. Maarek posted:No thanks, it kind of seems like a toxic community. I refuse to believe anyone who plays public CS on the reg and has also played goonmans would make this statement. I have literally never played in a more welcoming group of mid-to-high level CS players, and rarely if ever received any kind of outright bashing that I didn't drat well deserve (usually for doing something incredibly dumb). CS is famous for being one of the most insular and toxic FPS communities out there. I say FPS because nobody can even come close to the dotalike community. Beach Bum fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 02:27
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actually if you go back and read their posts they're pretty much reasonable "here's situations where the UMP is useful" and not at all controversial. it was the thread that jumped on them and claimed the gun was unusable trash. Now everyone is in agreement with Zwiftef's original argument, but the narrative is still that they must be deceitful and chicanerous fools who don't know how to play the game. Just because the culture on the goonmans has held that the UMP sucks doesn't mean that it's valid; in reality, you guys are just sucking eachothers dicks so hard that cognitive dissonance came out. wrap it up umpailures edit: also lol @ the guy who compared goon games to professional leagues
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Mar 14, 2014 02:28
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UMPs are a way of life. You proles will never understand 
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Mar 14, 2014 02:29
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You can't go by your MM rank, Beach Bum, you have to calculate your goonmans adjusted ELO. It's ADR / # of 360 jump spin AWP shots * number of players banned for hacking.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:30
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old dog child posted:UMPs are a way of life. You proles will never understand good to see another UMPIRE in the house
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Mar 14, 2014 02:30
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Maarek posted:Probably? The point I was making wasn't that everyone should use UMPs, it was that this thread is full of GOONMANS obsessed blowhards. It's fine to say that someone who top frags at MGE with sub machineguns might be top fragging at eagle if they used rifles instead and a few of the normal human beings in this thread seemed to be saying just that. There's no particular obsession with Goonmans specifically except that there is a rotating pool of what, 20-30 goons that are regulars in goonmans and they range from frighteningly good to laughably terrible players. Some people who goonman also MM, some don't, but when someone who never plays goonmans with us comes in and talks about regularly acing with UMP spray and how it's under-rated and actually a very competitive gun, it's natural for the pool of goons-who-play-with-each-other to want to see this in action. Come join the server, ace the gently caress out of us with a UMP, I think we'd all get a huge kick out of it and you'd probably be a temporary goonman celebrity. But until that happens you're just a nerd with a "My dad can beat up your dad at the playground after school" story to tell. p.s. I love your post history digging to try and compare internet dicks, especially when you gloss over the fact that I'm swinging the same MG1 cock around that you are, clearly visible in a more recent post.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:32
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