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I bet German prison is hell. They don't even have ps4 yet.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:07
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 13:23 |
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Lots of Xbones though, literal American Chinese sweatshop hell.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:21
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I hope he'll get incarcerated at Landsberg and writes a book.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:24
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Kein Mampf: verdammt schlechtes Essen in Gefängnissen.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:27
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ehhhhehehehehehehe
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Mar 13, 2014 16:43
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I can't see Messi moving to Bayern after these latest developments.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:04
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How much of that do you figure he'll actually serve? Half?
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Mar 13, 2014 19:34
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Lazlow posted:How much of that do you figure he'll actually serve? Half? Yeah, with good conduct he should be out sometime in 2015.
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Mar 13, 2014 19:45
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His jail time is suspended until Karlsruhe had a look. So he'll roam free this year.
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Mar 13, 2014 22:45
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There is still a chance he goes free although a pretty slim one. Apparently someone twittered almost the exact sentencing even before the sentence was spoken https://pic.twitter.com/Ey7KzeQHIg. If that really is the case and someone from the court spoke to them than this is a huge error that could see Hoeneß free as well. Probably just a good guess though. He did a great job at the club but with this kind of tax debt the sentencing is more than ok. Still given that way Bayern tends to defy the norm I could still see him remain president although he won't remain "Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender".
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Mar 13, 2014 23:58
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aaaand now he resigned. Plus he won't appeal the sentence which means at least 21 months in jail before parole is even possible.
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Mar 14, 2014 10:25
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elwood posted:aaaand now he resigned. Plus he won't appeal the sentence which means at least 21 months in jail before parole is even possible. Uli is a good man 
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Mar 14, 2014 11:26
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Healbot posted:His jail time is suspended until Karlsruhe had a look. So he'll roam free this year. He won't get parole until 21 months in, but they can (and will, imho) grant him Freigänger status after 6 months. So the bolded statement is most likely still true.
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Mar 14, 2014 12:09
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Also called it on him not appealing the sentence because he got off better than he would anywhere outside of Bavaria. For the record, I think prison sentences for tax fraud are stupid and pointless, society gains nothing from him being "off the streets"; tax evasion such as this should be punished by making him pay 2-4x the amount he owes and only result in a prison sentence if the culprit can't pay up. He's not a menace to society, there's no reason to lock him up.
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Mar 14, 2014 12:11
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The prison sentences for tax evasion are there to make people realize it's a serious crime and not something like speeding. And I think there's actually no hard time limit from when he could go into "offenen Vollzug". It's usually a few months, but it seems to be up to the prison warden.
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Mar 14, 2014 13:19
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MuLepton posted:The prison sentences for tax evasion are there to make people realize it's a serious crime and not something like speeding. Not to go too far off topic but speeding is something that can cost lives, so I'd wager it's a much more serious crime than tax fraud.
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Mar 14, 2014 14:03
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Katana Gomai posted:Not to go too far off topic but speeding is something that can cost lives, so I'd wager it's a much more serious crime than tax fraud. The example was bad, but driving cars in general can cost lives, even without speeding. Anyway, you just need to look to Greece to see how a lax attitude to paying taxes can be a danger to the whole society.
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Mar 14, 2014 14:10
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Torrannor posted:The example was bad, but driving cars in general can cost lives, even without speeding. Yeah my point is not that tax evasion isn't a crime (for the record, I work in education and am employed by the state so tax evasion pisses me off personally as it limits the amount of money my employer can spend*), I just think that the ultima ratio should be painfully high financial penalties instead of a prison sentence. Money, ultimately, is what tax fraud is about, and if you can skew the risk/reward enough so that it's not worth trying anymore, that might be more of a deterrent than locking someone up in minimum-sec for a year. Uli's case is special because of his public appearance, but I'd wager most people with his income would be more scared of paying, say, a 150 million € fine than going to the slammer for a couple years. *I am not delusional enough to believe that any amount of extra tax income would go towards education. 
Katana Gomai fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 14:25
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Keep Hoeneß in jail for each coming year in which the FCB wins the Bundesliga
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Mar 14, 2014 14:45
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Katana Gomai posted:Also called it on him not appealing the sentence because he got off better than he would anywhere outside of Bavaria. For the record, I think prison sentences for tax fraud are stupid and pointless, society gains nothing from him being "off the streets"; tax evasion such as this should be punished by making him pay 2-4x the amount he owes and only result in a prison sentence if the culprit can't pay up. He's not a menace to society, there's no reason to lock him up. Do both. Jail and a huge fine.
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Mar 14, 2014 14:54
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DickEmery posted:Do both. If high fines work as a deterrent (something that would have to be proven) additional jail time would be counterproductive since you're putting a productive tax payer away. You might even end up turning someone who'd go on paying high taxes for 10,20,30 years into a social case.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:01
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Katana Gomai posted:Not to go too far off topic but speeding is something that can cost lives, so I'd wager it's a much more serious crime than tax fraud. Speeding isn't even a crime like tax evasion, it's just an "Ordnungswidrigkeit". You cannot compare "Vermögensdelikte" and "Nicht-vermögensdelikte" with eachother as they both try to protect different kinds of assets. You can go to jail for fraud or selling stolen poo poo, it's about the monetary gain and I'd say evading paying tax in the sum of close to 30mil € seems like quite the monetary gain to me. Apart from that, did the state attorney give any reason why they didn't trial him as an exceptional case as in § 370 III Nr. 1 AO or did they? 3,5yrs seems pretty low considering it can go up to 10yrs.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:20
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Sereri posted:Keep Hoeneß in jail for each coming year in which the FCB wins the Bundesliga Strip Bayern of all titles since 2004, retroactively grant championship to the runner-up. Actually never mind, that would suck. 2005: FC Schalke 04 2006: Werder Bremen 2008: Werder Bremen 2010: FC Schalke 04 2013: Borussia Dortmund
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Mar 14, 2014 15:43
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puschel posted:Apart from that, did the state attorney give any reason why they didn't trial him as an exceptional case as in § 370 III Nr. 1 AO or did they? 3,5yrs seems pretty low considering it can go up to 10yrs. § 370 Abs. 3 of the "Abgabenordnung" (AO) lists examples of the exceptional cases and Hoeneß case might even be an exceptional case of the § 370 Abs. 3 Nr.1 AO, but it's a rule that can be ignored if the overall evaluation of the case is in favour of the defendant. Since Hoeneß made a full confession, presented all the evidence (even in a shambolic manner), is an overwhelmingly good guy and this being his first offence they must have dropped it.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:51
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If he was overwhelmingly a good guy he'd not have tried to trick the German government out of €30m imo
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Mar 14, 2014 15:52
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Jose posted:If he was overwhelmingly a good guy he'd not have tried to trick the German government out of €30m imo He's a saint compared to everybody at Newcastle FC so shut your cockholster 
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Mar 14, 2014 15:53
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ephex posted:He's a saint compared to everybody at Newcastle FC so shut your cockholster gently caress off.
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Mar 14, 2014 16:31
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The only thing Newcastle have ever been guilty of over the years is trying to match the ambitions of the supporters of the club. Current owners notwithstanding, that's the only thing we've ever been guilty of.
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Mar 14, 2014 16:34
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Ho Chi Meeeeee posted:The only thing Newcastle have ever been guilty of over the years is trying to match the ambitions of the supporters of the club. Current owners notwithstanding, that's the only thing we've ever been guilty of. lol
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Mar 14, 2014 16:46
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ephex posted:§ 370 Abs. 3 of the "Abgabenordnung" (AO) lists examples of the exceptional cases and Hoeneß case might even be an exceptional case of the § 370 Abs. 3 Nr.1 AO, but it's a rule that can be ignored if the overall evaluation of the case is in favour of the defendant. The verdict isn't online yet but I'll look into that. It's true that Abs. 3 isn't a qualification of Abs. 1 but it does allow the state attorney to increase the maximum sentence if the exceptional case is actually met.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:11
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puschel posted:The verdict isn't online yet but I'll look into that. It's true that Abs. 3 isn't a qualification of Abs. 1 but it does allow the state attorney to increase the maximum sentence if the exceptional case is actually met. Yeah but it's not a 'Tatbestandsmerkmal' but a 'Strafzumessungstatsache' so if it is met it doesn't result in a mandatory increase but only after an overall evaluation of the defendants culpability.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:24
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ephex posted:Since Hoeneß made a full confession. I thought it was quite a distance from a full confession. I've not paid, 3, no 15, no I mean 27 million in taxes.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:36
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Jonas Hofmann finally gets a start! All it took was an another injury crisis and 5 yellow card for Mhkitarian.
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Mar 15, 2014 15:34
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Reset Smith posted:Jonas Hofmann finally gets a start! All it took was an another injury crisis and 5 yellow card for Mhkitarian. Great match by Dortmund so far, it's becoming even more obvious now that Bayern is the real problem behind the lack of competitiveness this season. On a more serious note, I fully expect Bayern to lose their match 0:1 tonight. It's just that kind of day.
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Mar 15, 2014 16:41
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How has Mhkitarian been doing? To think of what could have been had he been part of Liverpool's attack this season... 
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Mar 15, 2014 16:51
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Red Star Baldgreg posted:How has Mhkitarian been doing? To think of what could have been had he been part of Liverpool's attack this season... Not that great tbh, but the whole Dortmund team has been disappointing this season
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Mar 15, 2014 17:03
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Red Star Baldgreg posted:How has Mhkitarian been doing? To think of what could have been had he been part of Liverpool's attack this season... He's really been coming along recently. He got hurt and missed the beginning of the season. and it's taken some time for him to adapt to the league and to Dortmund's style of play. He has played a lot better the last few weeks.
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Mar 15, 2014 17:07
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ephex posted:Not that great tbh, but the whole Dortmund team has been disappointing this season Might have something to do with the unbelievable string of injuries they have suffered.
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Mar 15, 2014 17:20
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Question for Ephex (or anyone else in München). I've got a buddy coming into town and he wanted to catch the FCB v. Hoffenheim match on the 29th. What's the best way to try and get a hold of tickets? Looks like about a minimum of 100€ a seat on Seatwave, and there doesn't seem to be anything available on Viagogo. I haven't been to a match yet, so I have no idea the best way to go about it. I could always just drag him to a pub instead, I suppose.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:21
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That question is for Season 2018/19, right? Maybe then you'll have a chance. (Sorry, I can't help but all my Bayern fan friends only get tickets via some business partners if they're lucky or by straight up paying ridiculous prices. As a 1860 fan it seems so bizarre having to buy tickets a season in advance. Or having to enter a lottery to even be considered.)
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Mar 18, 2014 13:49
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