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Damn Bananas
Jul 1, 2007

You humans bore me
My cat shits her little pants when I pull out her glucosamine treats. They're intended for senior cats with arthritis but I assume they can't be harmful to younger cats, maybe even helpful? Zuke's Hip Action (also available on amazon)

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Customer Service
Jun 20, 2004

I'm not wearing any pants
Can anyone recommend a good dog supplement/multivitamin that doesn't have garlic?

Or is the amount of garlic in the average supplement nothing to worry about?

Or should I not bother with supplements at all? (It's just that I've been restricting my dog's food a bit since she's overweight and I want to be sure she's still getting all her vitamins...)

baxxy
Feb 18, 2005

You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is 'never try'. -homer simpson
I've posted in the cat megathread about my buddy, Oreohead, before. He was diagnosed with IBD several months ago ("presumptive" IBD - no biopsy). I'm going crazy trying to find the right balance of meds to help him. I've been reading that raw diets have been extremely useful for a lot of people with IBD cats; however, I have neither the training nor the time to make him food myself. It seems there are a few options for commercially prepared raw diets now - a store near me carries Rad Cat, Natural Pet Pantry, Nature's Variety, and Primal. Has anyone tried these? Thoughts? My vet is at the point of suggesting an endoscopy and even brought up "fecal transplant," which sounds way more awful than just a diet change, if possible.

Joburg
May 19, 2013


Fun Shoe
My cat had IBD and a pinch of Konsyl fiber with water once a day worked wonders. For him the type if food didn't make much difference.

Pyramid Scheme
May 21, 2007

I've got a skinny dog problem with my rottweiler. Any views on fattening him up would be welcome.

The vet told us he's underweight. We increased his kibble (Taste of the Wild) to a little less than double the previous amount (which was more than the recommended dose) and both before and after we've kept an eye on his older brother to make sure there is no kibble thieving. He craps more, but still looks too skinny.

He does eat very fast, so much so he gets hiccup/burps after each meal. We've switched to feeding him his meals in two halves, particularly as we're worried about him developing bloat.

He gets two meals a day and 2 - 3x half hour walks in the park every day. On weekends, it's usually an hour each walk and at least one jogging session. He's stupidly happy all the time and not showing any signs of stress. His older brother is not bullying him.

He's ~2 years old (rescue dog, so no exact birthdate) and he's always been skinny. It was only when we relocated to New York recently that we had a vet telling us he's underweight. Genetic test results claim he's 100% rottie.

Any suggestions on fattening him up?

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation
Post pics of him showing his current body condItion.

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."

Superconsndar posted:

Post pics of him showing his current body condItion.

Seconding this- some vets are so used to giant fat rear end dogs, they can't tell when a dog is healthy/ in shape.

oddeye
Jul 24, 2005

Canned tripe is usually a nice option, maybe not so much for the owners due to the smell, but it's quite calorie rich and nutritious.

I made one dog fat over the winter by giving him lots of peanut butter Kongs while I was trying to watch hockey...

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation
I'll post a satin ball recipe but I wanna see dat dog's weight first

Totally Normal
Mar 29, 2003

WELLNESS!

HelloSailorSign posted:

What is the allergy to? If you don't know the exact cause, which Temptation flavor was it?

I don't know the exact ingredient which caused it, but the vet said that it's occasionally the cause. When the fur fell out in patches the only change we had made in the previous months was adding cat treats to his diet. When we stopped feeding him temptations, his bald patches grew back within 2-3 weeks.

This was the temptations tuna flavor.

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011

Totally Normal posted:

I don't know the exact ingredient which caused it, but the vet said that it's occasionally the cause. When the fur fell out in patches the only change we had made in the previous months was adding cat treats to his diet. When we stopped feeding him temptations, his bald patches grew back within 2-3 weeks.

This was the temptations tuna flavor.

That's a pretty good correlation, and for food allergies, that's sometimes the best we get. For any new treat, just make sure it doesn't contain chicken, corn, rice, or wheat (protein ingredients of the treats). Oddly enough, the tuna variety has merely "tuna flavor" which may or may not actually contain tuna protein. Unfortunately, there are "meat" categories which could be any number of other sources.

If your cat's current diet already has any of the four ingredients above and you're not seeing reaction, then they're probably not sensitive to that ingredient and the list of "what are we sensitive to" decreases.

Pyramid Scheme
May 21, 2007

oddeye posted:

I made one dog fat over the winter by giving him lots of peanut butter Kongs while I was trying to watch hockey...

oddeye - If my dogs could understand English, they would be worshipping you as a deity right now. At the very least, as some sort of demi-god. They have enjoyed peanut butter on rice crackers for the last two nights.

And they would be cursing my wife as the devil incarnate if they could understand that her fretting ways led to her dumping the peanut butter down the rubbish chute.

Unfortunately, they are incapable of comprehending either language or causation. The rottweiler continues to be a mummy's boy despite her treacherous ways (she adopted him and he made his first bond with her).

For those wanting slightly emaciated dog shots for diagnosis, here's some shots. If at first they are too big, click on them twice more for reasonable sized shots.















This rottweiler is neutered, if that impacts the diagnosis.

(edit) Dog is around 2 years old, weights around 35kg/77lbs.(/edit)

(edit2) For tail docking condemners - we didn't dock, the dog rescue centre rescued him that way. I'd prefer he had a tail so we could read his mood better and could see when he's wagging his arse off in excitement.(/edit)

Pyramid Scheme fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Feb 14, 2014

oddeye
Jul 24, 2005

Yeah that's definitely too skinny. You want a little body fat on the animal just in case of an unexpected illness.

The dog has been thoroughly examined by a vet? Has been treated for parasites? This is getting a little out of my expertise but what about thyroid? Sometimes a probiotic helps the dog absorb the nutrients from a food instead of it just running through the system.

Also I would check into getting a higher fat dog food. Maybe something in a 30 protein, 20 fat. Also grain free is not necessarily the bees knees. Some dogs benefit from that extra carb source.

Crooked Booty
Apr 2, 2009
arrr
When did you nearly double his food intake? If that was a while ago and he's not gaining, this isn't a problem a little peanut butter is going to fix. I would try a completely different food (different protein source and different brand) because sometimes foods don't agree with certain animals for no obvious reason, and also talk to your vet again.

My own dog was underweight for a while (eating about 1600 calories per day according to the bag), and when I switched to a totally different food, he gained 10 lbs in about 2 weeks (eating about 900 calories per day according to the bag). :iiam:

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation
Yeah he's skinny. Here's a link to a post containing the Satin Ball recipe I use http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3408341&pagenumber=8&perpage=40#post399901458

Works really well assuming there's not some weird underlying medical poo poo.

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011

Crooked Booty posted:

My own dog was underweight for a while (eating about 1600 calories per day according to the bag), and when I switched to a totally different food, he gained 10 lbs in about 2 weeks (eating about 900 calories per day according to the bag). :iiam:

It's not a mystery, you're a vet student, your pets will have strange medical problems.

Pyramid Scheme
May 21, 2007

Thanks all for the advice. I'll try changing his food as well as supplemental snacks and the occasional satin ball.

Lethanialist
Sep 10, 2006

Mom said not to run down the escalator. I hate it when Mom's right.
We have 2 cats, one is a bit over a year and one about 8 months. A while ago, my wife and I decided to go healthy/grain-free and tried feeding the older one Blue Buffalo Wilderness and he started having violent diarrhea attacks every week or two--he couldn't make it to the litter box and was defecating all over the place, getting disoriented (had to walk around the edges of the apartment to find his way to the litter box), and very scared. Needless to say, not a good experience.

I called Blue Buffalo and the rep told me that not all cats can handle high levels of protein and maybe we should just switch to a "normal indoor" brand and not Blue. I figured if the company is discouraging use of their own product I should take their advice, and we bounced back to a mix of Purina One wet and dry as a "safe" option that didn't cause any stomach upset, vomiting, diarrhea, etc.

Has anyone experienced this level of stomach upset before? My wife and I know we're not feeding our cats the best food in the world, but we're worried about getting either one of them sick. Are there natural, grain-free foods that aren't as crazy as Blue Buffalo Wilderness that we could try? We were thinking of Wellness Core but aren't really sure if it differs from Blue Wilderness in a significant enough way that would help us out.

Culex
Jul 22, 2007

Crime sucks.
Quick question. I'm getting a Cardigan Corgi pup, 15 weeks old, Thursday. She'll be kept intact until she's a year old at least, at recommendations by the breeder and by my own research, and we plan to keep her strong and busy. The breeder also breeds her dogs toward a little more bulk in the females. We want to put her in agility (if she takes to it) later, as well as bike rides and energy to spare for playing with the kitten and doing crazy tricks at home. The breeder goes for show lines, not working lines, and the pup won't be a total athlete, but I figure higher protein is probably better for her, yes? I've got 3 choices: Blue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken Puppy (36% protein, 16% fat), Blue Buffalo Life Protection Formula Chicken and Brown Rice Puppy (27% protein, 16% fat), and Blue Buffalo Wilderness Rocky Mountain Puppy (32% protein, 16% fat, it's coming out later this month). Not going to go with Freedom or Basic unless she ends up with an issue, but she hasn't had any issues with the breeder's Diamond as-is.

So higher protein for an intact, active, growing puppy, with intent on agility as an adult, or keep it at the low amount, or go in-between with the new stuff? I want her good and healthy, strong doesn't bother me, but I don't want her to end up weirdly formed or anything. Blue is my only option 'cause I work for them and get $40 a month discount on any bought Blue products, and that's uh, pretty significant, as that might be most of a month's worth of food.

Hoping someone who knows nutrition can help me out, 'cause the internet ain't saying dick that I can find.

Edit: Pretty sure she uses http://www.diamondpet.com/products/diamond/puppies/dry_food/puppy_formula/ as her current food, 31% protein 20% fat. So it seems either of the Wilderness ones would probably work well, unless 36/16 is a bad ratio for puppies.

Culex fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Mar 3, 2014

Crooked Booty
Apr 2, 2009
arrr

Lethanialist posted:

We have 2 cats, one is a bit over a year and one about 8 months. A while ago, my wife and I decided to go healthy/grain-free and tried feeding the older one Blue Buffalo Wilderness and he started having violent diarrhea attacks every week or two--he couldn't make it to the litter box and was defecating all over the place, getting disoriented (had to walk around the edges of the apartment to find his way to the litter box), and very scared. Needless to say, not a good experience..
This is bizarre for multiple reasons. How soon after eating did he become disoriented, and how long did it last? Was it only once every week or two, like the diarrhea? Did you ever take him to the vet during these episodes? Has your cat ever had routine bloodwork done?

For food, I would stick with the Purina because your cats are doing well on it. Normally if a cat does not tolerate high protein food (or an ingredient in the food), they'll consistently have diarrhea when they eat it - not just once every week or two - so that's weird. Being disoriented is much more concerning. Animals who are blind will often walk around the edges of rooms - do you think it's possible he was temporarily blind? There is a liver condition that can cause dogs and cats to have neurological abnormalities (like blindness, being disoriented, or seizures) after eating a high protein meal, but it's very rare in cats, and your story doesn't totally fit. Other than that, all I can figure is that the episodes of disorientation were unrelated to the food. In any case, you should talk to a veterinarian and not a Blue Buffalo rep about this, and if your cat ever exhibits signs of being disoriented again, proceed directly to the vet. That is extremely abnormal.

Culex posted:

Quick question. I'm getting a Cardigan Corgi pup, 15 weeks old, Thursday.
There are not really good or bad ratios for puppies*, except maybe in large/giant breeds. Any of those foods is fine if your pup likes it and seems to be thriving. If you start more intensely training for agility or biking with her later (you're not going to bike with her before she's ~18 months, right?) and are wanting her to put on more muscle mass, that might possibly be a good reason to switch to a higher protein food. But basically it doesn't matter that much.

I'd also encourage you to discuss when to spay her with your veterinarian because most dog breeders are loving insane and most crap on the internet is wrong. :)

ETA: *Okay, there are lots of bad ratios, but you should be fine as long as the food has an AAFCO statement saying it's formulated for growth or for all life stages (which will be true of any BB food labeled for puppies).

Crooked Booty fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Mar 3, 2014

Lethanialist
Sep 10, 2006

Mom said not to run down the escalator. I hate it when Mom's right.

Crooked Booty posted:

This is bizarre for multiple reasons. How soon after eating did he become disoriented, and how long did it last? Was it only once every week or two, like the diarrhea? Did you ever take him to the vet during these episodes? Has your cat ever had routine bloodwork done?

For food, I would stick with the Purina because your cats are doing well on it. Normally if a cat does not tolerate high protein food (or an ingredient in the food), they'll consistently have diarrhea when they eat it - not just once every week or two - so that's weird. Being disoriented is much more concerning. Animals who are blind will often walk around the edges of rooms - do you think it's possible he was temporarily blind? There is a liver condition that can cause dogs and cats to have neurological abnormalities (like blindness, being disoriented, or seizures) after eating a high protein meal, but it's very rare in cats, and your story doesn't totally fit. Other than that, all I can figure is that the episodes of disorientation were unrelated to the food. In any case, you should talk to a veterinarian and not a Blue Buffalo rep about this, and if your cat ever exhibits signs of being disoriented again, proceed directly to the vet. That is extremely abnormal.

We actually took him to a vet ER the first time, paid the $800 or so to be told "we don't know." We talked to our normal vet after and their suggestion was that the "LifeSource" bits in the Blue Buffalo are undercooked and our cat's stomach could be too sensitive to the bacteria. I don't think they did any extensive bloodwork to check his liver but said that he was extremely healthy otherwise. We triple-checked to make sure there were no poisonous substances exposed in the house or any foods (cat, human, or otherwise) being left out and couldn't really figure it out.

We'll stick to Purina, I just feel like I'm feeding a child Hamburger Helper for dinner and it makes me feel a bit bad.

Nione
Jun 3, 2006

Welcome to Trophy Island
Rub my tummy

Lethanialist posted:

We actually took him to a vet ER the first time, paid the $800 or so to be told "we don't know." We talked to our normal vet after and their suggestion was that the "LifeSource" bits in the Blue Buffalo are undercooked and our cat's stomach could be too sensitive to the bacteria. I don't think they did any extensive bloodwork to check his liver but said that he was extremely healthy otherwise. We triple-checked to make sure there were no poisonous substances exposed in the house or any foods (cat, human, or otherwise) being left out and couldn't really figure it out.

We'll stick to Purina, I just feel like I'm feeding a child Hamburger Helper for dinner and it makes me feel a bit bad.

I agree both that I think it's very strange that a food switch could cause that without it happening most of the time after the cat ate (and not every couple of weeks) AND that if your cats are doing well on it, it's perfectly fine to stick to Purina One.

That being said, you could always try switching to a "better" food with similar protein levels to start out. For example, Solid Gold Katz-n-Flocken has similar protein levels to the Purina One, but doesn't have any corn, wheat, or animal by-products. It does still have grain in it, but it's brown rice and barley. If you DO try this, you need to go really slow with the transition, carefully monitor the cat, and immediately stop feeding it the new food and take it to the vet if it shows any signs like you saw before.

jacido
Oct 10, 2008

Too much Breaking Bad, not enough Working Out.
Hi! I posted in the cat thread because I was too blind to see this thread. Here is my post and my question:

jacido posted:



My fat cat, Gimli, was adopted in the summer. We didn't mean to get a fatty but he kind of won our hearts over with his "hey here is my belly, please touch!" attitude... and he was so fluffy and fat and gah! Anyways, after many months on orijen, his weight kind of stayed around 16-19 pounds no matter what. We have tried to give him wet food, but he has diarrhea from any little nibble he gets. We got a huge giant cat tree, he has a lot of toys, we play with him often, and we have three levels of floors he must travel through each day if he would like to sleep, eat, and poop.

For Orijen, he was eating about 3/4 to 1 cup a day. He was sometimes gaining, but mostly maintaining. We took him to the vet to see what was going on, because it would be great if he could get healthy - we want to have him for a long time! The vet weighed him and gave us this new diet food to feed him. He said it had a lot of filler to make him feel fuller, and that he was supposed to get 1 and 1/4c a day. Everything I read a while back said filler is bad, which is exactly why I buy the expensive fancy pants orijen. Anyhow, I figure he is an educated man and I should probably just go along with it.

He weighed in two weeks ago at 7.5kg, today he weighed in at 9.2kg! Ahhh!

Total opposite of what we wanted. The vet was super skeptical that I was not monitoring the food and that he was eating Bert's (our other cat's) food. I said that was absolutely not the case, we sit down there with Gimli and feed him. When he is done, we put it away. Bert's food is out of limits for Gimli, as he is too fat to jump that high.

The vet didn't seem to believe me, and still wanted to continue on with the same food for the same amount.... And now that is why I am posting here.

I have also suggested to the vet every time we see him (it has been four times now) that maybe he should get a blood test, and each time shoots me down, just tossing it to me not watching him eat.

I just started tonight mixing Orijen with the diet food to get him back on it. I don't really trust this food now or trust the vet. He gained just over 4 pounds in two weeks!

So this is where you guys come in. Do I really believe in the vet and his "diet" plan? Or do you think I should just switch back to Orijen and 100% monitor his food intake like how we have been with the "diet" stuff? Before when he was on Orijen, we measured out his food, but didn't really watch or know how much he was eating. I feel like if he gets back on Orijen and we do what we're doing now (watching him eat and then putting it away) that he would lose weight.

He is indoor, approximately 2 years, neutered, and p cute.

"Diet" food:


Orijen:


Fatty in question:

Maximusi
Nov 11, 2007

Haters gonna hate
Ugh. Screw the diet food. Royal Canin is loaded with corn. Just pick a food that is high in protein and low in fat. BTW, that Orijen food is made for "Cat AND Kittens" meaning that it's going to be higher in fat content to be nutritional for kittens. Only buy cat food for adults. Your cat probably has diarrhea because it has a food allergy. Get a wet food with duck and only duck. Or only turkey. I don't really like that your cat food has so many different animal proteins in it, that's probably not too great for his digestive system. And again, he's probably allergic to something. A lot of people here like Wellness. Get the no grain variety "Adult" cat food. I myself feed "Spot's Stew" turkey and my cat with allergies does fine on it. Beware of those 95% protein canned foods. A lot of them are high in fat.

jacido
Oct 10, 2008

Too much Breaking Bad, not enough Working Out.

Maximusi posted:

Ugh. Screw the diet food. Royal Canin is loaded with corn. Just pick a food that is high in protein and low in fat. BTW, that Orijen food is made for "Cat AND Kittens" meaning that it's going to be higher in fat content to be nutritional for kittens. Only buy cat food for adults. Your cat probably has diarrhea because it has a food allergy. Get a wet food with duck and only duck. Or only turkey. I don't really like that your cat food has so many different animal proteins in it, that's probably not too great for his digestive system. And again, he's probably allergic to something. A lot of people here like Wellness. Get the no grain variety "Adult" cat food. I myself feed "Spot's Stew" turkey and my cat with allergies does fine on it. Beware of those 95% protein canned foods. A lot of them are high in fat.

Wow okay thank you! Stupid vet food... It is so yellow and light in colour it looked so wrong. Ugh!

As for the orijen, the reason we stuck with the cat and kitten was because the adult only cat bag was just fish as the only meat (which now I have learned is good, thank you!!) And it stinks so effing bad but I will just get over that.

I will check the local pet shop for wellness too, and for some wet duck food. I asked the vet about an allergy (because his poo is so much more lightly coloured than our other cats healthy looking coloured poop before the diet food) but he just totally shrugged it off. Grr!

Anyways, thank you so so so much and I will try what you said!

Braki
Aug 9, 2006

Happy birthday!
Whoa whoa whoa, I'd trust your vet over some random opinion on the internet. A gazillion different things can cause diarrhea - if he has it after only eating wet food regardless of what type of wet food it is, I doubt it's an allergy. Have you ever tried mixing a tiny bit of wet food with his normal dry food? Does he still get diarrhea then? What wet foods have you tried?

Royal Canin Satiety is a valid diet food, but I do personally prefer to go high protein and low carb for cats. That doesn't mean your vet is a bad vet for recommending it, as I'm sure it's worked for lots of cats even if it doesn't seem to be working for yours.

Foods that meet requirements for cats and kittens generally have a higher caloric content than foods that are made just for cats, but not necessarily higher fat. Kittens don't have a higher requirement for fat than adult cats.

Eating a variety of proteins isn't automatically bad for their digestive system. The only irritating thing is that it crosses off a lot of proteins that you could potentially use as a novel protein in case he did develop a food allergy, but that food has chicken, turkey, and some fish, which are all pretty common animal proteins in cat food anyway so it really shouldn't be a problem at all. Switching to a food with only turkey will not help him in this case because he is already on a food with turkey in it. Light-coloured poop is not a symptom of a food allergy. I would shrug that off too. Only look for a strict duck food if you are really sure you want to pursue a food allergy, which I do believe is pretty unlikely at this point. If you do want to try it, he has to ONLY have that one food for at least 8 weeks. And I mean only that food. He cannot have a single bite of anything else. Again, if his only symptom is that he gets diarrhea when you give him wet food, I really would not pursue food allergies at this point in time.

Re: blood test, I would agree with your vet. He is a 2-year-old cat who is becoming quite fat - 99% of the time, this is because he's getting too many calories. If he was eating a lot and was losing weight, then absolutely he should get some blood work. A disease causing weight gain in a cat despite normal intake would be quite uncommon. What else does the cat eat? Does he get any treats? Any table scraps? Is the cup you use to measure his food a normal measuring cup?

Maximusi
Nov 11, 2007

Haters gonna hate
It might be a food intolerance, and yes it makes your poop lighter (yellow). That is what happens when your feces travel quickly through your digestive tract. I suggested turkey because that is how you rule out things. By starting with one protein at a time. But cats generally tend to do just fine on duck. I had a cat who had diarrhea/yellow poop problems and that all disappeared once I found a food he tolerated. And yes, I tested him for everything. I used Natural Balance Duck Limited Ingredient Diet. That was the only thing my cat could tolerate. Have you even looked at the ingredients of that satiety diet food? They're awful:

Chicken Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Tapioca, Wheat, Wheat Gluten, Corn Gluten Meal, Natural Flavour, Chicken Fa - See more at: http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/Veterinary-Products/Feline-Nutrition/Veterinary-Therapeutic-Formulas/Satiety-Support#sthash.3ILzM6cU.dpuf

Cellulose? What the loving gently caress. This is a terrible, terrible food. Normally, I wouldn't say to get off your special diet food, but this is just a food to make him lose weight. You don't need a prescribed diet for that, Jesus.

Also, about the fish food thing. A lot of people freak out over only fish diets for cats because they tend to be high in some nutrients and a lot of cats tend to have food intolerances for fish. You should check out the beginning of the pet nutrition megathread. Also, your vet sounds stupid. Go to another one and maybe bring a fecal sample so they can rule out other things.

Edit: I'm tired

Maximusi fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Mar 15, 2014

jacido
Oct 10, 2008

Too much Breaking Bad, not enough Working Out.
Well I don't trust my vet because he doesn't believe me that he isn't getting any other food and said to carry on with the food and the same amount. He said to me yes most cats lose weight off this food. Well that's great that most cats do, but mine isn't. So it isn't the right food for him.

I have read the front page of this thread many of times before. That is exactly why I buy Orijen and it is the only food that my other cat, Bert, digests really well - no farting or cleaning loose poop off him. I wouldn't have tried a bag of food costing around $30 if it wasn't for this thread. It is super high protein and no grains. Originally, Gimli lost weight off that food instantly... but once we got the cats together he tapered off at about 16 pounds and bumping up to 19/20 pounds every now and then and back down.

The only reason I brought up the colour of his poop was because at FIRST I thought maybe he wasn't absorbing something properly. Maybe he isn't digesting fats or whatever. I learned right away it wasn't anything to worry about, but I brought it up because that was what originally made me think maybe he has a problem which led to the vet visits etc. I don't believe that anymore, I was just saying that was what had led me to this point.

Your questions are the same questions that my vet asked, and was really skeptical about what I was saying.
"What else does the cat eat? Does he get any treats? Any table scraps? Is the cup you use to measure his food a normal measuring cup?"
Only his food. Only his measured out, with an actual ml cup size food. He doesn't like human food, no treats, no table scrap. My boyfriend has been diligent about sweeping the floor because he thought maybe he gets at food from there, but I really doubt it. It's not like we are throwing our food on the ground when we are cooking.

The vet tech was way more helpful than the vet, but she wasn't there yesterday and I had just the vet. He said over and over to make sure he is just getting his measured food and I said that is what he is only getting. I don't know what else to tell him, I don't understand why Gimli gained almost 20% in body weight on this special diet food plan.

I'm switching back the chubbers to a high protein diet, but this time around back on the healthy food we are going to be just as strict as we were with the "diet" food. Watch him when he eats, and when he is done we'll put it in the cupboard. Absolutely zero treats, everything is measured, and no extra because little chubs is crying for food. We were 100% spot on for making sure he eats his daily required intake by the vet and nothing extra. But he never finished his portion he was allowed anyways.

I came out of the vet thinking what the heck? I was skeptical of the food because I knew it was bad ingredients, but I was gonna give anything a shot. It didn't work and I expected the vet to be oh well lets try a different food or a different intake. Nothing. He asked me three times if he had access to Bert's food (no). He seemed like I was lying and said to keep up with the diet food and the same amount and said to bring him back again in two weeks. I just don't think it is working for him, and it bothers me the vet thinks I am some slack owner who doesn't really care or something.

I'm gonna give what Maximusi said a go and try it out. If I am totally wrong then at least I can cross that off the board and try something else.

Thank you though!

Crooked Booty
Apr 2, 2009
arrr
Your cat should be able to lose weight on either food. If he's not, he's eating too much. (Was your cat weighed on the same scale both times? I have a hard time imagining a cat gaining over 2kg in 2 weeks eating the amount you're talking about, so maybe there was an error somewhere?)

If he gained eating 1.25c of the Royal Canin, that's like 275 kcals, so he needs way less than that. I'd probably try feeding around 200-225 kcal/day to start and see what happens. Orijen is in the ballpark of 500kcal/cup, so you're going to have a hard time getting to 200 with standard measuring cups. What I'd do is measure like 2/5 cup (or 6.5 tablespoons) of Orijen into a disposable cup and trim the cup down to only hold that amount. Then you can keep trimming the cup as needed if you need to reduce further.

You may want to seriously consider buying a baby scale online so you can weigh him weekly. If you go that route let us know and we can help you figure out how much weight loss to shoot for each week.

Braki
Aug 9, 2006

Happy birthday!
I agree that the ingredients for most pet prescription foods are pretty crappy for cats (especially the dry foods), but that doesn't mean they don't generally work for their intended purpose and it doesn't mean they're a bad vet for recommending something they've had success with in the past even if I personally wouldn't recommend it myself.

Yes, in dogs with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, they don't digest their food properly and their stools get very fatty and light in colour. In cats, not only is EPI extremely rare, but some of sort of intestinal disorder that causes malabsorption would make the cat lose weight, not gain weight. A malabsorptive disorder is not the only cause of light poop. Sometimes, animals just have light-coloured poop and it's normal for them. I honestly think fecal samples have very limited diagnostic value and we don't do them here a lot - if you think he has parasites, just deworm him instead, although again, a high parasite load would cause weight loss if anything, not weight gain.

jacido, your vet asked multiple times because people will literally say, "No, he doesn't get any other food, I swear! ... Except for the two strips of bacon we give him every morning." He should believe you though when you insisted that you don't give him anything else, and I'm sorry that he didn't. At this point I would recommend switching back to Orijen as I personally believe it's a better food for kitties. He'll need to be eating much less of it, as Crooked has already pointed out. I'd also recommend some scheduled playtime every day so he can burn off some of those calories. What does he like playing with? Would he play with those food puzzle balls?

jacido
Oct 10, 2008

Too much Breaking Bad, not enough Working Out.

Crooked Booty posted:

Your cat should be able to lose weight on either food. If he's not, he's eating too much. (Was your cat weighed on the same scale both times? I have a hard time imagining a cat gaining over 2kg in 2 weeks eating the amount you're talking about, so maybe there was an error somewhere?)

If he gained eating 1.25c of the Royal Canin, that's like 275 kcals, so he needs way less than that. I'd probably try feeding around 200-225 kcal/day to start and see what happens. Orijen is in the ballpark of 500kcal/cup, so you're going to have a hard time getting to 200 with standard measuring cups. What I'd do is measure like 2/5 cup (or 6.5 tablespoons) of Orijen into a disposable cup and trim the cup down to only hold that amount. Then you can keep trimming the cup as needed if you need to reduce further.

You may want to seriously consider buying a baby scale online so you can weigh him weekly. If you go that route let us know and we can help you figure out how much weight loss to shoot for each week.

He was weighed both times at the vet's office on their scale, so it is for real. :(

I will definitely measure out the Orijen like you say. And a baby scale is a fantastic idea! I put our scale on a certain spot on the floor that I'd use every week for now, I know it is not accurate weight but I figure I can get a ballpark estimate of what he is losing/gaining.


Braki posted:

I agree that the ingredients for most pet prescription foods are pretty crappy for cats (especially the dry foods), but that doesn't mean they don't generally work for their intended purpose and it doesn't mean they're a bad vet for recommending something they've had success with in the past even if I personally wouldn't recommend it myself.

Yes, in dogs with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, they don't digest their food properly and their stools get very fatty and light in colour. In cats, not only is EPI extremely rare, but some of sort of intestinal disorder that causes malabsorption would make the cat lose weight, not gain weight. A malabsorptive disorder is not the only cause of light poop. Sometimes, animals just have light-coloured poop and it's normal for them. I honestly think fecal samples have very limited diagnostic value and we don't do them here a lot - if you think he has parasites, just deworm him instead, although again, a high parasite load would cause weight loss if anything, not weight gain.

jacido, your vet asked multiple times because people will literally say, "No, he doesn't get any other food, I swear! ... Except for the two strips of bacon we give him every morning." He should believe you though when you insisted that you don't give him anything else, and I'm sorry that he didn't. At this point I would recommend switching back to Orijen as I personally believe it's a better food for kitties. He'll need to be eating much less of it, as Crooked has already pointed out. I'd also recommend some scheduled playtime every day so he can burn off some of those calories. What does he like playing with? Would he play with those food puzzle balls?

He is the laziest playtime kitty ever. He chases the laser pointer by just reaching for it, and he plays with other toys by destroying them hah, not really chasing. I will have to google this food puzzle ball, that definitely sounds like something he would be into! That cat is food motivated...

Thank you again everyone for your help! I will update in a few weeks on progress or not progress.

Braki
Aug 9, 2006

Happy birthday!
Look up SlimCat - there are a lot of similar food toys too. Basically it's a little plastic ball with holes in it and you put the kibble in and he has to roll the ball around to get the food to drop out. You can feed him his meals in it and that way he really has to work for his food. I have a feeling once he starts slimming down a bit he'll be more active at playtime too.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.
Is there any reason why you haven't switched vets? If you don't trust what your vet is telling you and you feel he isn't listening to your concerns, then you should absolutely find someone you can trust.

jacido
Oct 10, 2008

Too much Breaking Bad, not enough Working Out.
Got the SlimCat ball thing! Gimli this morning was pretty much "what the gently caress is this thing and give me my food now".



Konstantin posted:

Is there any reason why you haven't switched vets? If you don't trust what your vet is telling you and you feel he isn't listening to your concerns, then you should absolutely find someone you can trust.



We haven't switched vets yet because the last time we went is what confirmed to me that this vet sucks. We will go to a new vet next time for anything else. But I feel when it comes to weight loss, any vet would sell you their food on their shelves to make some extra money? If that's not the right assumption then I definitely apologize.

Dr. Chaco
Mar 30, 2005

jacido posted:

But I feel when it comes to weight loss, any vet would sell you their food on their shelves to make some extra money? If that's not the right assumption then I definitely apologize.

That is definitely an incorrect assumption. I can't be the only vet that routinely recommends people simply feed the pet less food to get them to lose weight. If they need or want a weight loss diet to make the process easier, of course I'm going to recommend the ones we carry. Vets carry prescription foods as a service to the client--it is more convenient to get the recommended food at the time/place it was recommended, no?--and because they work for the conditions they are prescribed.

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."

jacido posted:

Got the SlimCat ball thing! Gimli this morning was pretty much "what the gently caress is this thing and give me my food now".




We haven't switched vets yet because the last time we went is what confirmed to me that this vet sucks. We will go to a new vet next time for anything else. But I feel when it comes to weight loss, any vet would sell you their food on their shelves to make some extra money? If that's not the right assumption then I definitely apologize.

If you look at the bag you showed its labeled "satiety" or something to that effect- its basically designed to make the cat feel full so they dont piss and moan at you for hours about how they are going to starve to death while being less heavy/fatty/ whatever. Vets aren't making poo poo loads of money off of selling you cat food.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

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College Slice
The vet recommended that my mother get food for 'sensitive stomachs' (i.e. low residue) food for the family cat, who is 14 and constipated. He tends to prefer shredded foods over pate, and loves foods with gravy. Is there anything you can recommend? The Innova wet I feed my own cats doesn't fit the bill, and I am not sure what is out there that does.

nunsexmonkrock
Apr 13, 2008

jacido posted:

Got the SlimCat ball thing! Gimli this morning was pretty much "what the gently caress is this thing and give me my food now".

Are you starting with using the largest opening so that the cat gets the idea what it does? It also helps to show him/her by rolling it around infront of them while they are begging for food. Even my dunce cat figured out how to use it ha ha. After they figure it out you can go to the smaller holes.

From my experience the cats will always prefer immediate satisfaction over having to work but they are still less whiney knowing they can still get something.

Fun tip:I keep my slimcat in one of those disposable tin baking pans so kibbles don't get spread all over the place. Something plastic may be less noisy though.

Problem!
Jan 1, 2007

I am the queen of France.
One of my dogs has the most sensitive stomach ever. If he eats anything other than Boring Plain Dog Food (right now the dogs eat Blue Buffalo Wilderness and it sits ok), a real bone, or a bully stick he's spewing fluids from both ends for at least half a day. Rawhides are the worst, actual animal parts seem to do better but things like pork feet/ears don't necessarily make him puke but they do give him godawful gas.

My question is, are there any good long lasting things he can chew on that won't upset his stomach and are also not horribly expensive? Bully sticks and actual bones/antlers are fine but they can get pretty expensive. I feel bad leaving him alone with nothing to do (and he'll find ways to keep himself busy if I don't give him something, usually in a destructive manner) but I also dislike coming home to various puddles of dog fluids on my carpet.

Before anyone asks, yes he has seen a vet and they just told me to give him some Pepcid when his tummy is upset and to get him some low residue food when it gets particularly bad.

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Miss Squid
Jul 3, 2007
Are there any premium brands that do research and testing the way say Hills, Royal Canin, Iams do?

I don't see Iams wet for cats on the list in the OP. Where would that fit in?

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