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Goku at Super Saiyan 3 could fight pretty evenly with Kid Buu, as well as regular Majin/Fat/Good Buu (even if Kid Buu constantly could gain the upper hand). Contrast Goku thinking that he couldn't match even base, no absorptions Super Buu, and wanted to try the Fusion Dance in hopes of beating 'em. But yeah, as previously mentioned Kid Buu was more dangerous because he could not care less on things like collateral damage, even if that included himself (probably because he could regenerate, but still) like when he blew up the Earth with ten times overkill.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:22
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Kid Buu is just awesome and I'd be disappointed if he wasn't in a redone Buu saga.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:25
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I always liked that idea that Kid Buu wasn't more powerful, but just such concentrated evil that he became the perfect target for the Spirit Bomb.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:33
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Mordaedil posted:I always liked that idea that Kid Buu wasn't more powerful, but just such concentrated evil that he became the perfect target for the Spirit Bomb. That's pretty much why that was the first and only time the Spirit Bomb truly killed anyone. Thematically, that worked, even if it was contrived.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:43
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Mister Roboto posted:That's pretty much why that was the first and only time the Spirit Bomb truly killed anyone. Thematically, that worked, even if it was contrived. Not to give too much credit to GT, but didn't they kill the evil dragon with a huge-rear end spirit bomb?
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Mar 16, 2014 23:57
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Spiritus Nox posted:Not to give too much credit to GT, but didn't they kill the evil dragon with a huge-rear end spirit bomb? Nobody gives a poo poo about GT.
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Mar 17, 2014 00:13
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Spiritus Nox posted:Not to give too much credit to GT, but didn't they kill the evil dragon with a huge-rear end spirit bomb? If I say thematically, it's definitely only referring to the original author's mindset, not the extra stuff by other people who don't quite "get" the message.
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Mar 17, 2014 00:35
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GT should have been nothing but Gohan living at Mr. Satan's mansion with Videl, trying to get through college without exposing his powers, and moonlighting as the Great Saiyaman to fight crime. If a big baddie shows up, Trunks and Goten show up to help out as Gotenks, thinking up even more new moves with each fight. It would obviously be set just after the Buu Saga. I could watch that for seasons upon seasons. Goku is never mentioned.
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Mar 17, 2014 01:20
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Why all the hate for Goku in this thread lately
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Mar 17, 2014 04:15
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crankdatbatman posted:Why all the hate for Goku in this thread lately Brolly alt accounts, all of them.
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Mar 17, 2014 04:19
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crankdatbatman posted:Why all the hate for Goku in this thread lately Because the Great Saiyaman is such untapped potential because Toriyama had to cave into demands for Goku doing the same thing again. 
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Mar 17, 2014 04:21
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Yeah, Goku hogs up way too much spotlight and except for Cell every single arc can be summed up as "hold off until Goku gets here". You can see this really take effect first in the King Piccolo arc when Tien can't even beat Drum. The Buu saga was set up with it looking like Gohan and the Gotenks duo would be the main characters but it slowly reverted back to the usual formula after a lot of teasing.
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Mar 17, 2014 04:32
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WickedHate posted:Yeah, Goku hogs up way too much spotlight and except for Cell every single arc can be summed up as "hold off until Goku gets here". You can see this really take effect first in the King Piccolo arc when Tien can't even beat Drum. Yeah, let this set in: They had to weaken Super Buu just so the series could end in Goku Time.
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Mar 17, 2014 04:34
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It's like the other characters exist solely to fill up fighting game rosters.
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Mar 17, 2014 04:47
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Basically because how much it dropped the ball on Gohan's development. You see hints of him getting stronger, and we get the pay off in Cell saga where he completely kicks Cell's rear end. Now in the future? He's gone soft and isn't as strong as he used to be. I did enjoy the whole him hiding his identify so people wouldn't freak out about a normal human being doing super human things. Great Sayiaman was great. Buu wasn't a bad character at all in retrospect, but come on the gently caress on. Gohan couldn't catch the loving ring? Just.. argh. All that training was for nothing. It's like nope Goku is the only one who can do a power up and it works. Buu saga just felt like going backwards. It was literally buy Goku time so he can deliver the final blow. Granted I did enjoy Vegeta's sacrifice because he did something for someone else once instead. Even knowing he might not be able to see Goku in the afterlife. Just. gently caress the buu saga. It sucked.  I will take solace in the fact that Mr. Satan end saving the world though. Mr. Satan rules. Shindragon fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 04:55
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Great Sayiaman was embarrassing to watch.
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Mar 17, 2014 04:59
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bowmore posted:Great Sayiaman was embarrassing to watch. Does this make it any better?
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Mar 17, 2014 05:03
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bowmore posted:Great Sayiaman was embarrassing to watch. That's the best part though. Gohan actually has a unique personality in the Buu saga, I loved watching him be a humongous dweeb.
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Mar 17, 2014 05:04
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Yes, but it just makes me appreciate Thor more.
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Mar 17, 2014 05:10
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I'd like to ask Toriyama exactly who pressured him into giving up on writing Gohan. Watch it be like 3 angry 13 year old Japanese fanboy letters in Shonen Jump's "feedback" section and Toriyama thinks this represents everyone and change his style in shame. Before the internet, letters columns were how people told everyone what was the Worst Ever.
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Mar 17, 2014 05:26
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Mister Roboto posted:I'd like to ask Toriyama exactly who pressured him into giving up on writing Gohan. Isn't that pretty much how Jump still operates?
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Mar 17, 2014 05:57
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WhiffleballDude posted:Isn't that pretty much how Jump still operates? From what I know about Japanese business practices, it would not surprise me if they were indeed that insane.
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Mar 17, 2014 06:14
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bowmore posted:Great Sayiaman was embarrassing to watch. Great Saiyaman's only bad part was that it wasn't long enough. Also there wasn't a mini post-Buu arc with Great Saiyawoman. Hirudegarn movie doesn't count.
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Mar 17, 2014 06:35
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The problem with Buu saga is that it had too many red-herringish endings: oh, so Gotenks is gonna beat him? No? Oh, there's Gohan now, maybe it's him? No? Maybe Goku? No? Oh, so they're gonna fuse and... oh wait, no. But I liked Buu as a villain, pretty much all of his forms. I could have done with less silliness and goofing around but overall the saga had some very good scenes (Vegeta says goodbye to Trunks before self-destructing, Goku threatens Supreme Kai before their fight with Majin Vegeta). I would've liked more Piccolo time, though.
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Mar 17, 2014 08:35
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Look if any of those guys had saved the day we wouldn't have gotten the awesome Hercule Saves The Day ending. And that just wouldn't be acceptable. And not to mention would have made the bonding between Buu and Hercule ultimately pointless, which would have been lovely writing.
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Mar 17, 2014 08:40
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Well, what we got instead is that unlocking Gohan's true potential was pointless. As was Gotenks. As was Vegeta's sacrifice which amounted to basically nothing. Hercule rules, though.
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Mar 17, 2014 09:20
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BlitzBlast posted:Look if any of those guys had saved the day we wouldn't have gotten the awesome Hercule Saves The Day ending. And that just wouldn't be acceptable. There are other ways to write around that, really. All while Goku and Vegeta stepped out of the spotlight to train in the afterlife, even.
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Mar 17, 2014 09:22
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Spiritus Nox posted:Not to give too much credit to GT, but didn't they kill the evil dragon with a huge-rear end spirit bomb? I still love that Vegeta mustache subplot and the time he derailed some punk's car after they hit on Bulla. That's the only worthwhile thing about GT SirDrone fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 09:23
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Re: Buu Saga changes I've said it before, I'll say it again. The Frieza saga is about Goku, Cell saga is about Gohan and the Buu Saga is about Vegeta. To justify: The saga starts with the world tournament and the confrontation between Vegeta and Goku in the first round being the focus. Buu only gets free because Vegeta turns on Goku and Buu's only defeated when Vegeta is able to let go of his hatred for Goku and work with him. The issue with this is that we never see Vegeta get his reward for this. I feel it would be more satisfying for Vegeta to have a more prominent role in beating Buu. The logical endpoint for the Buu saga is Vegeta letting go of his anger at Goku, turning SSJ3 and fighting Buu to a standstill long enough for Goku to hit the spirit bomb. I like the idea that Vegeta does have actually the same potential as Goku, but his attitude prevents him from seeing as clearly. Added tension coming from the fact that it's Vegeta's first time in the transformation and he's desperately struggling to keep his power from killing himself whilst also fighting a god killing monstrosity. Otherwise I don't really object to any of the Saga. I'd rather there have been fewer curbstomp fights, so Gohan vs. Buu would be better served by Buu immediately absorbing Gotenks and them fighting at basically an even level until Buu gets a surprise absorption victory or something.
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Mar 17, 2014 12:34
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Otherwise I don't really object to any of the Saga. I'd rather there have been fewer curbstomp fights, so Gohan vs. Buu would be better served by Buu immediately absorbing Gotenks and them fighting at basically an even level until Buu gets a surprise absorption victory or something. He could've absorbed Gotenks and it would have given him enough raw power to fight him on an even footing, then he could've absorbed Piccolo, gaining the edge that way because it makes him a much smarter fighter. Or the other way around, maybe.
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Mar 17, 2014 12:43
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Metal Loaf posted:He could've absorbed Gotenks and it would have given him enough raw power to fight him on an even footing, then he could've absorbed Piccolo, gaining the edge that way because it makes him a much smarter fighter. One thing I did like about the Piccolo absorption was now Buu knew how Gohan fought, since Piccolo had a great hand in his overall training. I thought that was a nice detail.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:18
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It would've been cool for that to occur in stages like that; Buu realises that he can overpower Gohan with his Gotenks absorption, but he doesn't necessarily know how to do it, so he absorbds Piccolo to gain his intelligence, understand how to use his new power and work out a strategy that allows him to win. Of course, having Gohan lose because the villain knows everything his first teahcer knows would have had the side-effect of emphasising that the reason he lost is because he didn't keep up with his training! Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 18:43
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Metal Loaf posted:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It would've been cool for that to occur in stages like that; Buu realises that he can overpower Gohan with his Gotenks absorption, but he doesn't necessarily know how to do it, so he absorbds Piccolo to gain his intelligence, understand how to use his new power and work out a strategy that allows him to win. Haha that's very true. Although Gohan did look pretty sound during that fight, not making the kind of mistakes he was against Dabura.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:28
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this is the best dragon ball thing in the history of dragon balls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGdGJ1XXvTQ but it is very misleading, the rest of GT is bad. this is probably the only good part.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:36
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If Vegeta's mustache is bad then I'm in no mood to be good.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:38
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Oh yea. I said probably cause I knew I forgot about a few other great things. Like that stache.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:42
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:this is the best dragon ball thing in the history of dragon balls ...GT was a loving weird show. And when your chief comparison is the rest of Dragon Ball, that's really saying something.
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Mar 17, 2014 20:13
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Reminds me that I only saw GT in it's Japanese form, which was really draining. This makes the English dub look kinda good. What is going on?
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Mar 17, 2014 20:38
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:this is the best dragon ball thing in the history of dragon balls Holy crap I thought DBZ Abridged was adding those lines in when they referenced that scene. Good lord.
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Mar 17, 2014 22:06
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Vintimus Prime posted:One thing I did like about the Piccolo absorption was now Buu knew how Gohan fought, since Piccolo had a great hand in his overall training. I thought that was a nice detail. I like the way Buu was playing mind games with Gohan too. Bringing up how "Goten really thought you would save him" or "Piccolo knows you're better than this".
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Mar 18, 2014 00:18
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