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Rosscifer posted:It's more likely that GRRM will release Winds and Dream this year than that HBO will bother with the Dorne subplot in the TV show. They have to financially justify building water gardens, Dornish culture, and Sunspear and there's no chance they're going to be able to justify building all that in the same season they need a big payoff in Meereen. They already have Dornish culture with the Red Viper. There's no reason they can't do one or two CGI exterior shots and then use the same location shooting as Dany but with slightly different costumes.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:39
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:People will probably really like Oberyn, so I would assume they'll keep Dorne stuff in. Dorne can just be a place that people come from and go to but isn't ever shown. Because nothing important happens there. In fact if you asked show watchers to list all the great houses I bet the vast majority would forget Dorne exists.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:43
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:People will probably really like Oberyn, so I would assume they'll keep Dorne stuff in. Dorne has six hot warrior chicks eager to wreck poo poo in King's Landing. Of course they're going to include it.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:45
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Alchenar posted:In fact if you asked show watchers to list all the great houses I bet the vast majority would forget Dorne exists. Well yeah, the same could be said for most book readers before Oberyn was introduced. Kainser fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Mar 16, 2014 |
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Mar 16, 2014 22:45
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Alchenar posted:Dorne can just be a place that people come from and go to but isn't ever shown. Because nothing important happens there. Dorne will be important going forward because they're involved with both Daenerys and Aegon, and they're going to go to war with the Lannisters. Dorne isn't some minor footnote like so many book haters like to pretend.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:55
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Kainser posted:Well yeah, the same could be said for most book readers before Oberyn was introduced. It was also true after he was introduced. Zzzzzzzz
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Mar 16, 2014 22:56
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Andrew Verse posted:Dorne will be important going forward because they're involved with both Daenerys and Aegon, and they're going to go to war with the Lannisters. Dorne isn't some minor footnote like so many book haters like to pretend. And Aegon meets Tyrion. This will be explained elsewhere. Why would they build Dorne?
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Mar 16, 2014 23:01
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Rosscifer posted:And Aegon meets Tyrion. This will be explained elsewhere. Why would they build Dorne? You keep talking about "building" Dorne. What do you mean by that?
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Mar 16, 2014 23:07
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Sir Kodiak posted:You keep talking about "building" Dorne. What do you mean by that? Sets costs money. Actors cost money. The Kingsmoot plotline will probably be in because that will be cheaper to film.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:10
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Rosscifer posted:Sets costs money. Actors cost money. The Kingsmoot plotline will probably be in because that will be cheaper to film. Exactly what sets or actors do you think can be reused for the Kingsmoot?
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Mar 16, 2014 23:11
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computer parts posted:Exactly what sets or actors do you think can be reused for the Kingsmoot? It can be filmed outside. They could show a bit of Euron on the Seastone chair beforehand.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:14
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Jedit posted:ADWD: Attention Deficit Writing Disorder. As someone who's currently writing a large scale multi-pov novel, I can totally sympathize with GRRM. The longer your story gets, the harder it is to write. When you have multiple plot threads and hundreds of characters to keep track of on different parts of a massive world you've created, the logistics of getting things where you want them to be becomes exponentially more difficult as the story takes on a life of its own. Travel distance and logistics can get in the way of where you want the characters to be in the story. You want to make it seem like everything is coming together naturally, and not being forced by an invisible author's hand, otherwise it makes for inconsistencies, plot holes, characters with obvious plot armor and just general sloppy story-telling. Another thing to keep in mind, every time you take a break from writing, there is an increasingly longer period of "getting back into the zone", because often times you need to refresh yourself on where you were in the story, where all of the characters are and reminding yourself where you were going before you stopped writing. This is why getting in the zone while working on a fresh new project is often a lot easier and faster than trying to get back into the swing of things with an old project that you haven't thought of in awhile and need to take a long time to "catch yourself up". GRRM's story grew a little too big for him and it's gotten away from him. He needs to start resolving things and closing some plot threads before he loses it completely.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:14
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Rosscifer posted:Sets costs money. Actors cost money. The Kingsmoot plotline will probably be in because that will be cheaper to film. The Dorne set could probably be done as a redress of an existing interior set, with a different CG/matte painting establishing shot. The scenes in Dorne generally involve only a few actors, while the Kingsmoot is, by its basic nature, a huge gathering, requiring far more actors.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:25
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Andrew Verse posted:Dorne will be important going forward because they're involved with both Daenerys and Aegon, and they're going to go to war with the Lannisters. Dorne isn't some minor footnote like so many book haters like to pretend. No, Dorne is a Checkov's Gun army that exists to re-ignite the War of the Five Kings at some point.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:25
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Sir Kodiak posted:The Dorne set could probably be done as a redress of an existing interior set, with a different CG/matte painting establishing shot. Exactly. If Mereen is Egypt, Dorne is southern Spain. Also, the Kingsmoot is four actors (Asha, Euron, Victarion and Damphair) and a bunch of extras standing on a hill.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:29
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HBO will balk at the cost of two chests full of pinecones and turnips, leaving the entire subplot scrapped.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:30
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Irish Joe posted:Also, the Kingsmoot is four actors (Asha, Euron, Victarion and Damphair) and a bunch of extras standing on a hill. I'm not saying the Kingsmoot is unaffordable, just that it's silly to list "actors" as a cost that speaks for the inclusion of the Kingsmoot but the exclusion of Dorne.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:31
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I've basically always been down with them drastically cutting the Dorne and Iron Isles plotlines, especially Victarion, Quentyn and Arianne. Ships need to get to Dany, a usurper with a dragon-binding horn needs to take over the Iron Isles, and it's unclear how much Dorne related stuff will be important outside of itself but it's bound to be a lot less than is in the books. Quentyn and Victarion would be easy cuts (no matter how much people like fire-hand viking), just make the ships Euron sends to get Dany be led by Generic Ironborn Extra and have them only show up when it matters. Quentyn might turn out to only matter because Dany misses another opportunity to go to Westeros and alienates the Martells by letting a prince die in her city, and there's plenty of ways she could alienate them without having to introduce a new perspective character and plot arc. If they're slashing AFFC and ADWD to get them down to size those are the sort of cuts you need to make. Of course, there's plenty of other places they might cut instead, and there's no telling what they'll streamline, merge or completely rewrite to get it to fit. These just seem like good guesses.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:36
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The fact that they kept the Blackfish despite him not doing anything of note for three books bodes well for Victarion. If we do see cuts, it'll definitely be down in Dorne. For instance, two Sandsnakes instead of six and a trimming of the Myracella plot (because its really loving stupid).
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Mar 16, 2014 23:46
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If they do not include Darkstar, I will post very mean things on Twitter, I swear to the loving Seven.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:56
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There are two main problems with cutting potentially significant characters and having the established characters fill in the gaps. First, we don't know where these characters stories end up. Quentyn's death will have consequences and Victarian's story is likely just beginning. Second, if you start forcing these other characters into different plotlines it could potentially seem forced and the quality would drop. HBO/D&D aren't going to cut entire plotlines because of budgets, they'll just make the places a little more efficient, and they certainly aren't going to cut something because some readers were dissapointed in the new character's arcs.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:58
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meristem posted:
They invested so much time turning Gendry into a main character that they HAVE to come up with something for him to do. They can't just have him disappear into near irrelevancy like in the book. I have no idea what that might be though. I guess they could kill him off. Or maybe he can travel with Brienne and Pod? He's gotta do something. Sending him East somehow as part of Tyrions group or something crazy like that would be a little too extreme and he can't really join up with any of the Stark or Lannister plot lines too easily either. Having him join the brotherhood and pal around with Thoros and Anguy and help murder Freys or something seems like the most likely option. Where else can he go?? Same deal with Bronn. There is no way they can do in the show, what they did to him in the book and have him just peace out and stop being important. Too much time was invested in him and he's way too awesome to just let retire like that. He has to do something to stick around. At least for Bronn we know what that is now because you can see him sword fighting with Jaimie, so obviously he's gonna take the place of Ilyn Payne. Wherever Jaimie goes we can have Bronn right there with him. That's pretty cool. GuyDudeBroMan fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 00:27
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lifts cats over head posted:There are two main problems with cutting potentially significant characters and having the established characters fill in the gaps. First, we don't know where these characters stories end up. Quentyn's death will have consequences and Victarian's story is likely just beginning. Second, if you start forcing these other characters into different plotlines it could potentially seem forced and the quality would drop. HBO/D&D aren't going to cut entire plotlines because of budgets, they'll just make the places a little more efficient, and they certainly aren't going to cut something because some readers were dissapointed in the new character's arcs. I think at this point, D&D knows what GRRM has in mind for the end. The smaller details and how they get to that end are still up in the air, but I don't expect it to be very much like the books after season 4. The tv show will become it's own thing.
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Mar 17, 2014 00:33
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Gianthogweed posted:I think at this point, D&D knows what GRRM has in mind for the end. The smaller details and how they get to that end are still up in the air, but I don't expect it to be very much like the books after season 4. The tv show will become it's own thing. Up until a few weeks ago when I started seeing ads for Season 4 all over the place I had only ever read the books and wanted to finish off the books and "complete" the story that way before watching the show. Seeing that Season 4 is just around the corner and that TWoW won't be released until 2015 at the earliest really made me realize that there's no way GRRM finishes off the books before the show finishes. Started watching and half-way through Season 2 now. I'm glad the show is becoming it's own thing, since at least it won't take 25 years to finish the story.
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Mar 17, 2014 01:15
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lifts cats over head posted:There are two main problems with cutting potentially significant characters and having the established characters fill in the gaps. First, we don't know where these characters stories end up. Quentyn's death will have consequences and Victarian's story is likely just beginning. Second, if you start forcing these other characters into different plotlines it could potentially seem forced and the quality would drop. HBO/D&D aren't going to cut entire plotlines because of budgets, they'll just make the places a little more efficient, and they certainly aren't going to cut something because some readers were dissapointed in the new character's arcs. I don't buy the second point - it's just as likely that trying to keep them would seem forced, when the show doesn't need to be weighed down by the baggage that the last two books are specifically known for. They don't have to cut entire plotlines for their money budget, but their time budget is precious as all hell and neither of the latter books appears to be getting the two-seasons treatment that Storm of Swords did. Quentyn's death will have consequences, sure. Will they have consequences that can't be replicated by a shorter, easier story change elsewhere? Especially if they mostly revolve around Dany and the Martells? Victarion's story might be just beginning, or he might eat it in much the same way Quentyn does since Euron seems to be the more important and mysterious Greyjoy. If Euron is going to come out on top in the end they might just skip ahead and have him be the one to sail to Dany or some such thing. Obviously any cuts we propose here are limited by the fact that we don't know what happens in the last two books. If Victarion sits the Iron Throne and Quentyn's buddy Gerris turns out to be Azor Ahai then yeah, their plotlines will be included. With what we know so far though they both seem like good potential cuts, especially since cutting new characters and plotlines is much easier than cutting from established ones like Brienne, Tyrion and so on.
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Mar 17, 2014 01:46
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edit: nm, misread
Cirofren fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 01:47
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I'm interested to see what the hell Asha/Yara ends up doing this season - she won't be able to rescue Theon from the Dreadfort and in the trailer there's a clip of her fighting something.
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Mar 17, 2014 02:03
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I think the Kingsmoot will definitely be cut, as I can't see Asha/Yara leaving to rescue Theon, then going straight back, then leaving again. If it still makes it in, she won't be there and it'll probably end up as a scene of Balon dying ambiguously, then Euron and Victarion arguing. I'm sure Quentyn will still exist, though I don't think his plot will have anywhere near the same prominence. At a guess, his entire journey with all the double-crossing mercenary companies will be skipped - you could easily go straight from Doran's "yes I have vengeance plots as well" speech to Quentyn arriving in Meereen. And yes I think most of the Sand Snakes scheming will also get cut, maybe even the crowning of Myrcella plot as well.
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Mar 17, 2014 02:16
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webmeister posted:I'm sure Quentyn will still exist, though I don't think his plot will have anywhere near the same prominence. At a guess, his entire journey with all the double-crossing mercenary companies will be skipped - you could easily go straight from Doran's "yes I have vengeance plots as well" speech to Quentyn arriving in Meereen. And yes I think most of the Sand Snakes scheming will also get cut, maybe even the crowning of Myrcella plot as well. They already sent Myrcella to Dorne so at the very least she's going to be kept as a hostage in the upcoming war (and it seems likely that they'll side with Aegon anyway).
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Mar 17, 2014 03:21
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The Sand Snakes and Myrcella plots were important to me because they showed that, even though Dorne was part of Westeros, it didn't have the same patrilineal culture, and that opened up a host of new, exciting possibilities that made Westeros feel much larger. I think those plots could certainly be streamlined, though.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:35
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I think the Dorne plot is important because it was pretty explicitly stated that they Dornishmen were plotting to overthrow the current leadership and get a Dragon back on the throne overseas.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:47
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KKKLIP ART posted:I think the Dorne plot is important because it was pretty explicitly stated that they Dornishmen were plotting to overthrow the current leadership and get a Dragon back on the throne overseas. Dorne can't be cut at all, but you don't need to go into too much detail this season. We're about to see three major TV characters cut from the show by virtue of the story and another is about to gently caress off to go train in Bravos where they could have their story covered in a five minute check in every couple of weeks like they with Theon getting reeked. It's not going to be hard to get one dude to play a plain looking prince with a body guard or two and a couple of pretty women, gouty dude and a bald axe weilder to fart around in a pretty house for a few episodes a season from now. People are blowing out of proportion how much is needed to show Dorne. Look at the Iron Islands so far we've seen a lovely port, a hill and the inside of a seaside castle, but it's worked. Hell you can keep the Myrcella plot line pretty easily. Change a couple of days ride to a quick wagon ride to a port. Instead of a three day trip its an afternoon shown in ten minutes on screen. A pretty southern spanish villa, an old ochard / pool isn't that big of a stretch location wise. All they need to establish is there's some pissed off women and a cripple living in some pimped out accommodation.
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Mar 17, 2014 04:00
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I could see Yara off doing her searching for Theon, and she sees her Uncles ship, they meet and he's all "You're father is dead, Euron has taken the throne" and she can go "gently caress that poo poo, I'm not going back" and continue on her journey that eventually leads her to Stannis.
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Mar 17, 2014 05:00
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Gianthogweed posted:And if you're going to have someone free the dragons it might as well be a developed character like Quentyn rather than some nameless shlub. Except Quentyn is only a developed character if you spend a season developing him, which means hiring an actor and spending screentime for an event that doesn't appear to have much by way of a pay off. I don't really see any strong reasons to actually spend time in Dorne because their whole plot is they are plotting and Doran isn't good at it. Most of the plot can be explain through Aegon/Connington and maybe Varys can have a cheesy exposition chat with someone. It isn't necessarily elegant, but neither is Dorne.
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Mar 17, 2014 05:18
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If they do cut people from Dorne, it'll probably to condense the Sand Snakes down to just the older ones plus Arellas.
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Mar 17, 2014 05:48
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I'm not sure show watchers are extremely familiar with Myrcella so bringing her up again as part of an important subplot is likely to confuse people. Has she even had any lines?
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Mar 17, 2014 06:40
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:If they do cut people from Dorne, it'll probably to condense the Sand Snakes down to just the older ones plus Arellas. I don't remember any of the Sand Snakes doing anything that necessitates their existence. E: the convoluted machinations they went through to replace Edric Storm with Gendry makes it pretty clear that D&D are going to cut or replace with existing characters a lot of the minor, single purpose characters that GRRM introduced in the last couple books. Zamboni Jesus fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 06:50
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TOOT BOOT posted:I'm not sure show watchers are extremely familiar with Myrcella so bringing her up again as part of an important subplot is likely to confuse people. Has she even had any lines? "Is Bran going to die?" Also, no, the sand snakes don't do anything interesting in the books so far but apparently they will going forward. I hope they get fleshed out a bit in TWOW as they currently come off as a girl gang from a Tarantino movie.
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Mar 17, 2014 07:04
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The Dorne plot is important to show how much Gurm has stopped caring about the main plot and is desperate to write anything else.
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Mar 17, 2014 07:16
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:They invested so much time turning Gendry into a main character that they HAVE to come up with something for him to do. They can't just have him disappear into near irrelevancy like in the book. I have no idea what that might be though. I guess they could kill him off. Or maybe he can travel with Brienne and Pod? He's gotta do something. Sending him East somehow as part of Tyrions group or something crazy like that would be a little too extreme and he can't really join up with any of the Stark or Lannister plot lines too easily either. Having him join the brotherhood and pal around with Thoros and Anguy and help murder Freys or something seems like the most likely option. Where else can he go?? Ha, Brienne travelling with Jaime, and then with Gendry and the show's Hot Pod... she'd end up monopolising all the hottest guys on the show. Then again, after hearing the actress laugh in that video... That laugh is awesome. I hope she has a laughing scene sometime inside the show, because it deserves to be preserved. But my point is, there was very little Joe Dempsie in the season promos so far, so I'm wondering if Gendry is in the season at all. Like some people above said, I also think that with Dorne, the best they can do is cut the Quentyn travel-cam and condense the Myrcella kidnapping in such a way that she doesn't even leave the initial place. Basically, preserve the meat of the plot, just make it more efficient. Arianne is unhappy, tries to do something about it, Doran stops her and tells her about Quentyn. Introduce Quentyn at this point as he introduces himself to Dany. Quentyn gets toasted, but Dorne plots on. It's a lot of pages cut while preserving the important stuff.
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Mar 17, 2014 07:55
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