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Spazzle posted:If the past week in D&D has taught us anything, it's that a hyperlocal Europe would consist of microstates based around historically protected food production cartels. I think you'll find this is how counties are arranged.
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Mar 17, 2014 17:23
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Mar 17, 2014 17:32
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^^^ E: If the EU spent as much effort on diplomacy and/or military as they do on agricultural poo poo, this wouldn't have happened A Buttery Pastry posted:I considered making map of this, but then I looked up how many there are. No way was I going to figure out the PDO regions of roughly a thousand products. Holy poo poo there are a lot of protected products in Southern Europe. I took that as a challenge and wanted to whip up an automated way to map this, but the actual geographical information is hidden in deep in PDF files of each application, so nope. If anyone's curious though, the database can be viewed here: http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/qua...atus=REGISTERED
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Mar 17, 2014 17:45
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Torrannor posted:Coastal republics have a free CB to take any coastal city, what will be the first victim of a new Venice? Athens? Their old rival Ragusa, these days usually called Dubrovnik: 
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Mar 17, 2014 18:22
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Kopijeger posted:Their old rival Ragusa, these days usually called Dubrovnik: Also called King's Landing
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Mar 17, 2014 18:24
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Kopijeger posted:Their old rival Ragusa, these days usually called Dubrovnik: It'd probably be better to seize that tiny strip of coast Bosnia has or Montenegro, otherwise all of NATO will declare war on them and they'd have to pay at least 50 ducats to each of them as a peace agreement.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:25
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Kavak posted:It'd probably be better to seize that tiny strip of coast Bosnia has or Montenegro, otherwise all of NATO will declare war on them and they'd have to pay at least 50 ducats to each of them as a peace agreement. Why not have Pope Francis start a Crusade, provide boats and make the Crusaders sack my hometown as payment for transport? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Zara Here's a map from a later period and a contemporary photo:  
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Mar 17, 2014 19:19
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Well, I think we can all agree that the Fourth Crusade was the worst. Although mad props to the Doge of Venice who managed to redirect it to Constantinople as revenge for the Byzantines allegedly blinding him. So your example is a pretty good one.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:23
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Armacham posted:Also called King's Landing Wait really? 
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Mar 17, 2014 19:23
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Spazzle posted:If the past week in D&D has taught us anything, it's that a hyperlocal Europe would consist of microstates based around historically protected food production cartels. I have absolutely no problem with this, let's do it. 
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Mar 17, 2014 19:28
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This is where someone posts one of those eurominority maps, isn't it? Actually bought a few of them; they're really interesting and strangely topical in Scotland right now...
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Mar 17, 2014 19:33
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Spazzle posted:If the past week in D&D has taught us anything, it's that a hyperlocal Europe would consist of microstates based around historically protected food production cartels. This is what was missing from every cyberpunk setting world map I've ever seen.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:35
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Lawman 0 posted:Wait really? Yeah, my mum went to Dubrovnik on holiday and seeing her photos was pretty surreal. That's the garden where Tyrion and Sansa were hanging out! That's blackwater bay!
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Mar 17, 2014 19:44
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Mar 17, 2014 19:48
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twoday posted:
What the poo poo? I actually live here, and this is the first I've heard of it.
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Mar 17, 2014 20:30
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Always good.
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Mar 17, 2014 20:32
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Mikl posted:What the poo poo? I actually live here, and this is the first I've heard of it. Separatism has been pretty big in Northern Italy lately.
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Mar 17, 2014 21:31
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Baronjutter posted:Separatism has been pretty big in Northern Italy lately. If by "lately" you mean "since about the '90s" I agree with you, but this is the first I've heard of a referendum. Of course it's not a real referendum at all, or I would have heard of it. After checking, it's not even a referendum at all. They're simply gathering signatures. The way it works in Italy: we get referendums for changes to the constitution, and by "popular demand", i.e. if an issue gets 100.000 verified signatures in favour and is not against the constitution (this last thing is probably going to be the sticking point) then it gets voted nationwide as a referendum. And of course it's being done by Lega Nord, i.e. far-right racist separatists. Last time they tried this they got laughed at, I don't see how things will go differently this time.
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Mar 17, 2014 21:54
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Killer robot posted:This is what was missing from every cyberpunk setting world map I've ever seen. From my (very) limited experience with sci-fi and cyberpunk, Europe is often (mysteriously?) absent. Outside of, like, Gibson, It's all megatokyos and corporate american fiefdoms. No Italian cheese monarchies or fascist French vintner-states. 
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Mar 17, 2014 22:18
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IceAgeComing posted:This is where someone posts one of those eurominority maps, isn't it? Actually bought a few of them; they're really interesting and strangely topical in Scotland right now... Sure, if for no other reason than to point out the truncated Brittany on that map. You all knew this would happen This map has bonus flags if that's your thing. 
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Mar 17, 2014 22:20
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Killer robot posted:This is what was missing from every cyberpunk setting world map I've ever seen. If Terry Pratchett wrote cyberpunk it'd probably be something like that
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Mar 17, 2014 22:21
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Benito Hitlerstalin posted:No Italian cheese monarchies or fascist French vintner-states. We must create a future for the White Wine. We can not allow the purity and beauty of our terroir to pass from this earth.
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Mar 17, 2014 22:21
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Soviet Commubot posted:Sure, if for no other reason than to point out the truncated Brittany on that map. You all knew this would happen Topically, their Ukrainian borders are... uh, interesting. Why is the Crimean border south of the isthmus of Perekop? Somehow, Italy remains mostly united. Huh well. What is the funny little red pocket in Thessaly? Hehe Lotharingia.
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Mar 17, 2014 23:05
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Lawman 0 posted:Sounds like it would be a mini-japan. But I'm assuming Venice industry relies on raw materials and infrastructure from the rest of Italy, which goes out the window once independent. I just don't see how Venice can sustain a well rounded economy and not become Monaco
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Mar 17, 2014 23:07
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Emanuel Collective posted:But I'm assuming Venice industry relies on raw materials and infrastructure from the rest of Italy, which goes out the window once independent. I just don't see how Venice can sustain a well rounded economy and not become Monaco You do realize it wouldn't just be the city but the entire province?
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Mar 17, 2014 23:23
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Farecoal posted:You do realize it wouldn't just be the city but the entire province? The economy of Veneto amounts to mostly agriculture, tourism and medium-small industry. Some chemicals too since Marghera, near Venice, was the chemical production area for post-war Italy, but most of the production's shifted elsewhere since then. Almost no heavy industry, and almost no raw materials (some lumber in the north, near Trentino and Austria, but that's it. There's no way the region would be able to survive economically without some serious import-export going on (or without reverting to a rural farming society, which while it would be  it is probably not what the independists have in mind for the glorious future of the new nation).
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Mar 17, 2014 23:33
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Mikl posted:There's no way the region would be able to survive economically without some serious import-export going on... I don't really see that as much of a problem these days though. That's how most of the world works now.
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Mar 17, 2014 23:44
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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twoday posted:I have absolutely no problem with this, let's do it. Curse Mercator and his Samicentrism. Emanuel Collective posted:But I'm assuming Venice industry relies on raw materials and infrastructure from the rest of Italy, which goes out the window once independent. I just don't see how Venice can sustain a well rounded economy and not become Monaco The region of Venice has almost five million inhabitants, it would be small but not tiny by European standards. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 00:00
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Reliance on imports - exports isn't a problem at all in the European single market where you can't affect movement of goods across borders and where everything has to be harmonized anyway.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:01
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Glass is going to come back in a big way! From there, all Venice has to do is trade Antioch and Constantinople for religious artifacts and the economy will become self-sustaining in no time.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:03
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Phlegmish posted:Curse Mercator and his Samicentrism.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:10
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Assuming maybe Friuli comes along for the ride or heck, even if it doesn't, Veneto would have a bigger population and almost as big an area as the sovereign country of Slovenia next door, which afaik is not a giant Monaco. Speaking of size, this is a fun little website: http://mapfight.appspot.com/ or http://overlapmaps.com/
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Mar 18, 2014 00:11
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I remember looking at a map some time ago and being surprised that the Baltic countries were larger than I had assumed. They're just not very densely populated. Flanders by itself has about the same number of inhabitants as all three of them combined.  The interior of the Iberian peninsula is a total wasteland as well, with the exception of Madrid.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:30
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Phlegmish posted:
It resembles the American Southwest so well some spaghetti westerns were filmed there.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:39
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Phlegmish posted:I remember looking at a map some time ago and being surprised that the Baltic countries were larger than I had assumed. They're just not very densely populated. Flanders by itself has about the same number of inhabitants as all three of them combined. Darkest Bosnia has data but some areas in the middle of England don't?
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Mar 18, 2014 00:44
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Phlegmish posted:I remember looking at a map some time ago and being surprised that the Baltic countries were larger than I had assumed. They're just not very densely populated. Flanders by itself has about the same number of inhabitants as all three of them combined. France loves centralization.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:45
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Farecoal posted:Darkest Bosnia has data but some areas in the middle of England don't? I was just about to say, its not even as if they are rural areas either Cheshire is one of the richest areas of the country outside of London.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:49
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Farecoal posted:Darkest Bosnia has data but some areas in the middle of England don't? There isn't any data for Bosnia?
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Mar 18, 2014 00:51
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PittTheElder posted:There isn't any data for Bosnia? Oh whoops, I was color blind (although to be fair those English areas and Bosnia are very different shades of gray), replace Bosnia with Darkest Macedonia then
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Mar 18, 2014 01:01
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Killer robot posted:This is what was missing from every cyberpunk setting world map I've ever seen. I'd like to see some of those other maps, if you have links. This thing is great, so many gems. Austrailia labeled as Singapore got a laugh, and the size of the Falklands. Phlegmish posted:I remember looking at a map some time ago and being surprised that the Baltic countries were larger than I had assumed. They're just not very densely populated. Flanders by itself has about the same number of inhabitants as all three of them combined. Wow, my guesses would have been way off. I had the idea of France being quite homogeneous for its density. The Rhine, wow!  Also, that is a terrible scale. It goes: ... 135-170 170-500 >500 The gently caress? Is Sicily surprisingly dense, or just a bit bigger than the surrounding areas? Still a cool map though. Content: Speaking of countries breaking away, remember how disputed Kosovo was when it left Serbia? Russia was very much opposed. More countries support it now: 
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