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chiefnewo posted:It's kind of hilarious that the guy they have to keep banning on their forums turned out to be right that the Kickstarter funds would result in basically nothing. you could argue it indirectly contributed to whales starting development of cata2, which is actually looking pretty nice! (not that it's gonna get finished)
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Feb 20, 2014 10:22
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Has the rot system been updated yet to allow for stuff like brewing?
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Mar 1, 2014 06:13
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Not as far as I can tell. I made the suggestion a number of times, but I backed the wrong horse so I doubt we'll ever see it.
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Mar 5, 2014 02:11
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:Not as far as I can tell. I made the suggestion a number of times, but I backed the wrong horse so I doubt we'll ever see it. I'm not a horse, and I'd like to think I wasn't wrong  Seriously, I'm sorry things turned out the way they did Killer-Of-Lawyers. From what you described of what you wanted to do, I think you could have really moved the crafting system forward, not just by your own work, but by showing others what is possible. I get the feeling that if I had just rolled over and let Granade have his way with the crafting distances without a fuss, he would have merged a pull for just the qualities system itself, at which point we could have furniture (though admittedly not regular items) that tracked values. Edit: I hate to keep bringing the same thing up, because (to me anyway) it sounds like I'm harping on about how I was wronged, or need to keep reminding people "hey, everyone remember that cool thing I did?", but the fact of the matter is, it's the last thing I've done involving Cataclysm, and despite my continued interest in seeing how the project progresses (from this thread, I don't go into the git repository anymore), the whole situation really burned me and my interest in the game itself. I just find it really hard to develop any desire to play a game that I now mentally associate with a person that I really don't like (as a leader; I have no problem with anyone as an actual person). The King of Swag fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 08:43
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Yeah, I know how you feel. I had a really detailed brewing system I was working on, and all I really needed was to just be able to specify that an item had to be rotten to craft with it. I don't really like the direction they took crafting in (Or lack of, really.) but that's life. Maybe after I get my basic programming class out of the way for my degree I can fork the thing and try and put some improvements in crafting the game could use. It just frustrates me is that I really didn't want major changes. Just re-appropriation of existing things in a cleaner manner. Even just adding the rot timer code to furniture and other items as a way to throw a flag on an item after X time could have opened everything from stills you set up and let work while you do other things to making charcoal in actual coal clamps to brewing. I feel like eventually they might come around, so I keep checking from time to time, but so far the progress hasn't been so great. Anyways, it happens. IT's still a cool game, and I'll probably fire it up next stable. Maybe down the road the community will change and take the suggestions.
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Mar 5, 2014 11:23
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The latest stable has been out for a while, actually, although I don't know if it's been mentioned here yet.
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Mar 5, 2014 12:51
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Indeed it has, Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead version 0.A Kaufman has been released! Update notes: http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=5544.0 Highlights: Module manager. Fullscreen mode. Many mutations, more refined mutation progression. Improved view options for driving. Improved item handling, including category views, partial stack handling. Mouse move and mouselook. Fishing. Working Refrigerators.
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Mar 5, 2014 14:01
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You certainly wouldn't know it by looking at the Cataclysm website. The last post on the front page is still about voting for a contest that's long since ended.
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Mar 5, 2014 14:07
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I like how vehicles can be assembled with ductape, cause that makes sense over other proposed crafting changes. edit: Still, with a mod manager maybe we can make some improvements as a mod instead of having to argue with the idiot randian in charge of the project.
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Mar 5, 2014 19:42
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I really wish I didn't kickstart this. Ugh.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:08
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Turtlicious posted:I really wish I didn't kickstart this. Kickstarter.txt
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Mar 6, 2014 05:00
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I honestly like a lot of changes and improvements to the game, I do miss having solar panels max out everything forever, but driving is really cool now, and being able to smash wrecks apart by hand to get rid of them as well as salvage parts from them is fantastic, and the optimization that makes saving/sleeping/finding a pileup not slow the game down incredulously is much appreciated.
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Mar 6, 2014 07:09
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nftyw posted:I honestly like a lot of changes and improvements to the game, I do miss having solar panels max out everything forever, but driving is really cool now, and being able to smash wrecks apart by hand to get rid of them as well as salvage parts from them is fantastic, and the optimization that makes saving/sleeping/finding a pileup not slow the game down incredulously is much appreciated. Sounds like I need to get the newest stable and try it out. It will kill my usual base-building strategy, though, which is to build a monstrous 'vehicle' consiting of nothing but frames, solar panels/storage batteries and an RV kitchen, water tank, welder rig and ROBCO. Snake it in through a smashed-out window and enclose it in log fences and you'll never need to build a fire again. On a related note, my current character filled four jerrycans with pool water intent on filling the shelter's water tank, dropped them at the shelter and went back to explore the mysterious cave he'd found inexplicably located next to the town swimming hole. Sure enough, it was chock full of rats led by a monstrous thing that gave him Whiskers and High Night Vision before he could get enough SCAR-L rounds through the wall of rodents to kill it (thanks, Robust Genetics!). After butchering the corpses and dragging the several hundred pounds of meat back to the shelter, my character proceeded to spend the next day turning a pile of logs into a pile of charcoal. Busting out the smoker he cooked up about 120 units of rat sausage, then used the RV kitchen to boil the four jerrycans of water into the tank. In less than 48 hours he went from being a short-order cook who knew a few things about the kitchen to a four-star chef who cooks up vials of bizarre mutagens like most people make scrambled eggs. Ironically, he may never need to touch a frying pan again.
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Mar 6, 2014 08:29
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I wonder how good the modding is at this point for tiles. I had a dream where most tiles were impassable with out a vehicle, turning the game into a space zombie apocalypse. Might be fun.
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Mar 6, 2014 12:42
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I can't run the newest release, it just crashes on startup. I seem to be having the same problem as this guy on the forums: http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=5548.0 Already tried deleting the lang folder and running the executable as administrator. Anyone have any ideas how to get this game working?
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Mar 6, 2014 16:20
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Works fine for me. Wish I had answers, though I presume you installed everything into a fresh directory? I did an overwrite install once, and apparently the game didn't like that very much.
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Mar 7, 2014 01:46
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I'm down for working on a branch again at some point in the future, if we want to work on features like brewing. And not-poo poo furniture.
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Mar 7, 2014 02:13
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Brewing, timer flags on things for setting up a still and leaving it running instead of boiling pots of water unit by unit, and so on. I'd love to see that sort of thing in the game.
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Mar 7, 2014 10:09
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Ignoring all the "durr hurr, goon projects" nonsense, I'm still against a Cataclysm branch for the same reason I was against it in the past: Cataclysm is The issue is that's a lot of work needed before you get back to a playable state (and something resembling Cataclysm), with the benefit that adding new features and functionality from that point forward would be many times faster and easier than continuing to modify Cataclysm. But the large period at the beginning [before you really have a game] is always the hardest time to maintain interest in an open source project, and I fear that there's simply no way to keep such an endeavor going. But continuing on with Cataclysm as it is now is just setting up for failure later, barring the gutting and rewriting of large portions of the underlying code, in which case you go right back to what I was talking about before, and you'd have just been better off starting with another platform to build from.
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Mar 7, 2014 10:22
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True, but usually GDA hasn't been about large changes to the code. It's not like we want GDA to fix stuff under the hood. We'd just like to change and add interesting mechanics ontop of things. Now that there's modding support I'd assume there's ways to accomplish that with out touching a lot of the underlying code. A lot of stuff is in the JSON's now, after all. If we figured out what we wanted, we could just impliment the least changes needed to accomplish it and have the rest just be a mod we drop ontop of normal Cata.
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Mar 7, 2014 10:39
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:Brewing, timer flags on things for setting up a still and leaving it running instead of boiling pots of water unit by unit, and so on. I'd love to see that sort of thing in the game. Isn't that system already in? I thought they just used the timer flag system to implement a "wet towel" item that dries off into "dry towel" item.
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Mar 7, 2014 14:30
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esquilax posted:Isn't that system already in? I thought they just used the timer flag system to implement a "wet towel" item that dries off into "dry towel" item. They also use it for rotting, but as far as I know its all just one time implementations, and not something you can just plug any item into. I'll double check after class though, I might be pleasantly surprised.
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Mar 7, 2014 19:44
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Turtlicious posted:I really wish I didn't kickstart this. I was backer #2 and ended up backing out, thank god. I just got a bad feeling about the whole thing and yeah, LazyCat ended up being completely right about almost everything. I still think he's a troll he just ended up being right in this case.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:53
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Are there any good modpacks, even if there's no goonpack? I've looked, and they all seem to be "ADDS OLD GUNS" and requests. e: In the new version, I know you can now have <75 items by having some items be hotkeyless. Is there a way to set my currently worn clothing to have to hotkey manually/automatically? It would be quite useful, since I rarely have to select my clothes directly. T-man fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 02:23
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My brother is coming home soon and will be living with me for a while; when talking to him on the phone the other day, he mentioned to me that he was beginning to get a bit disenfranchised with the Cataclysm team and where they were taking the game, and expressed interest in the two of us creating our own project in a similar vein. I bring it up here to pose a question to the hypothetical situation, that if we were to devote our time into developing such a game (by that I mean working on it full time and not seeking out further professional positions in our respective fields), would you pay money for it? The issue I brought up to him, is that although I would be all for such a project, it has to be a commercial project, because it simply would never come to fruition if it was worked on as a spare-time project, and obviously neither of us could work on it full-time in perpetuity, without a level of compensation that kept the lights on and food on the table. I also brought up the issue that people expect roguelikes to be free, and that unless we could offer graphics beyond just tile-support (which we most likely couldn't), it would be difficult to build a community that's willing to throw support at us that goes beyond just kind words. Not to mention that I have a moral ambivalence towards asking people for money to support a project that you can't absolutely ensure will be finished in a timely manner, with the promised features. All that said, it's still a nice thought and fun to daydream, so my brother and I talked for a while, brainstorming various ideas and game-play features. I was surprised to find that we were both pretty adamant that the game still revolve around a world where the dead has risen, but that we wanted to move away from a sci-fi theme, and go more towards a paranormal flavor. The gameplay thread that we sort-of latched onto is that the dead haven't so much risen, as they have been animated to do the bidding of other powers--we thought this fitting, as it allows us to introduce creatures that may be amalgamations of others or wholly not of this world. It also allows us to avoid the tropes of zombies are dump mindless creatures that only want to eat your brains, and skeletons are frail and bony warriors that are easily felled. It seemed to us that you could do a lot more with combat and gameplay in general, if the undead were mere puppets of much more horrible things off in the shadows. Plus, we both agreed that it could possibly lead to scenarios where you're hopelessly overwhelmed by an undead horde, but come out on top when you luck out and spot the shadowy figure that's been trailing you and leading the horde--dispatching it with that rpg you've been saving, and rendering the horde into only so much salt and rot. Of course something that bitchin' couldn't just be ignored.
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Mar 18, 2014 04:12
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Sure, I'll throw money at you! I threw my money away on the DDA kickstarter so why not a better coded and more expansive take on the idea?
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Mar 18, 2014 04:20
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Unreal World has been a commercial roguelike for more than twenty years, but I doubt it's ever made more than beer money for it's creator until he made it free and started asking for donations - and that was after that 20 years of goodwill. Dwarf Fortress was in development for four years before the first version was released, and I can only imagine how long it took for Toady to be able to live off donations. I don't think anyone would be able to start an entirely new project and live off it in anything like a timely manner, if at all.
Tehan fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 04:26
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I've tossed money at worse ideas!
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Mar 18, 2014 04:31
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Tehan posted:Unreal World has been a commercial roguelike for more than twenty years, but I doubt it's ever made more than beer money for it's creator until he made it free and started asking for donations - and that was after that 20 years of goodwill. Dwarf Fortress was in development for four years before the first version was released, and I can only imagine how long it took for Toady to be able to live off donations. I don't think anyone would be able to start an entirely new project and live off it in anything like a timely manner, if at all. See, this plays into what I said here: The King of Swag posted:I also brought up the issue that people expect roguelikes to be free, and that unless we could offer graphics beyond just tile-support (which we most likely couldn't), it would be difficult to build a community that's willing to throw support at us that goes beyond just kind words. Not to mention that I have a moral ambivalence towards asking people for money to support a project that you can't absolutely ensure will be finished in a timely manner, with the promised features. The sad thing is that nearly any game, large or small that can make it on Steam or otherwise see wide distribution, can make enough money to not necessarily be a commercial success, but be enough to keep one or two lone developers going. Except when it comes to roguelikes, and it's largely because you're dealing with a community that isn't used to paying for these sorts of games, and beyond that, has a lot of fine choices in what to play (for free I might add). It doesn't matter that the ratio of work to benefit is so heavily lopsided it could flip a ship; getting people to pay the same they would if you labeled it differently and could work up some fancy graphics, would be nearly insurmountable. Edit: It's also not fair to bring up Dwarf Fortress in any capacity, because that's an outlier in every way possible. The time spent developing it is proportional to the complexity of the underlying sim, and Dwarf Fortress is nothing but the concept of a sim that's gone so far above and beyond what is normal or even sane. No one should ever try developing anything to the same scale as DF; this isn't a defeatist attitude, it's because as fun as DF can be, it's a bad idea. The King of Swag fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 04:41
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As long as the game scratches the same itches and lets me have fun with base building and vehicles, yeah, I'd throw some cash at it.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:26
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If you're seriously considering doing it, then I think you might have luck by learning from the mistakes of others. Kickstarter could fund you, provided you can sell the idea, and provided you do things you should do anyway, such as keeping backers well informed as to what's happening and what state the project is in. Honestly if you aren't a shithead and have a good idea, and can show people you have a good chance of pulling it off (you have all of these things, right?) then kickstarter seems to work pretty well. Spend a day or so advertising it on various places (having the goodwill of SA is a good start) and see if it works. If not, well, kickstarter refunds the money I think? No harm done. Just be sure to do the things you want to see in a kickstarted project, and avoid the things that would put you off. It's going to be a bunch of work but you did say you wanted a full time commercial project.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:44
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I used to earn spending money as a kid and early teen making and selling shareware games through old-school physical media distribution, but the likes of Kickstarter and crowd-funding are completely foreign to me. In fact, I would say that if you have enough funds to develop to the point of a playable but incomplete game, then you'd be better off trying to get it released on Steam or one of the various other (easier to get into) digital distribution channels as an Early Access title. All the random garbage that developers feel compelled to offer to justify higher tiers of backing in crowd-funding scenarios seems pointless and even a little gross at best, and detrimental to the development of the project at worst, and I would honestly like to avoid it if at all possible. Being honest, I don't know if we are going to start on this project--as of right now it exists as a fun idea to play around with, but a scary proposition to actually put into motion. I mostly just wanted to get a feel for how others would react to it. But on the possibility of starting this project, I've already mulled over ideas to try and minimize the amount of boiler plate code that needs to be written before we get to actually putting together a game, as well as ideas to minimize the amount of code needed for actual game related things as well. As an example of some of the things I've mulled over:
Again, this is all just the thoughts that have been going through my head about the idea. I don't know yet if we'll actually go through with it, but I like to be prepared in the situation that we do. * Content I believe will truly be the make or break of the project if we were to go through with it. It's content that takes time to create, and you need to create a lot of it in a roguelike. As much as I would hate to invest time into something that isn't the game itself, I almost feel like it would be necessary to put together a creation kit, so that creating new set pieces, or items can be done quickly in an editor and easily tested, instead of putting them together in a text document, then loading them up and hoping they don't break anything. The idea is that the time spent on the editor is more than made up for by the time saved over the course of the project.
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Mar 18, 2014 07:58
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There have been a few commercial roguelikes. I believe the pricepoint you would be aiming it would be about $5, which seems to be the tipping point where people are happy to buy with minimal word-of-mouth. The things I believe are most important for your project are tileset support with a decent default tileset, and cross-platform support. As long as you can differentiate yourself from Cataclysm enough and your included tiles are decent (and the gameplay is good, herp-derp), I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to make some money. A graphical tightly-designed roguelike should be able to make the rounds from Steam early access to Steam sales to the billion indie bundles, giving you a reasonable long-tail. If you could swing Steam Workshop support for mods I really think it could take off.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:39
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I'm going to go against the grain and say I probably wouldn't buy it unless it was totally amazing. There are enough free, very high quality roguelikes to fill my time. Not to mention the fact that it seems like every 3 days someone announces a new zombie game or a new indie roguelike-style game.
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Mar 18, 2014 10:51
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The King of Swag posted:I was surprised to find that we were both pretty adamant that the game still revolve around a world where the dead has risen, but that we wanted to move away from a sci-fi theme, and go more towards a paranormal flavor. The gameplay thread that we sort-of latched onto is that the dead haven't so much risen, as they have been animated to do the bidding of other powers--we thought this fitting, as it allows us to introduce creatures that may be amalgamations of others or wholly not of this world. It also allows us to avoid the tropes of zombies are dump mindless creatures that only want to eat your brains, and skeletons are frail and bony warriors that are easily felled. It seemed to us that you could do a lot more with combat and gameplay in general, if the undead were mere puppets of much more horrible things off in the shadows. Then about the setting: I think you should really spend a lot of time trying to choose the correct setting because it can put a lot of artificial limitations to what you can add to the game down the line without having to make sure it fits the setting. And it will be the first thing to define what your game is and its initial appeal to a lot of people. That's the thing with cataclysm: it's such a patchwork of all the movie cliches possible, it's a retro-fururist, scifi, zombie, modern days, zombies, cthulhu, every-horror-cliché-ever setting with far too many ammunition types, there is everything for everyone, yet it lacks focus in both its themes and what it want you to do. And there are so many setting you can choose to both limit and define what your game will be. A modern setting means both a modern environment (aka lot of different type of buildings and places) and "GUNS". I doubt you want to have a realistic ammunition/gun system but i can guarantee you some people will bitch about/for it and yet i fail to see what overall it would bring to the game-play as long as the basic game mechanisms are good. It also hard to justify limiting the scopes of the game even if you want (or need to) to make it a better game. I am not surprised whales choose an island to limit the potential scope of the environment for Cataclysm two. I still think a sf setting for a system-shock like roguelike would work well, because the undead could dead/living human resuscitated/modified as various type of cyborg-corpse-models from the brainless hand to hand fighting prototype to the guns carrying terminator-like models. Also you can ignore ballistic firearms in favor of more sf ones or just use generic "sf" ones, it makes things a lot simpler. You have a variety of potential environments: spacestation orbiting around, bunkers and civilians facility on the surface of a colony planet. Hell, you said you wanted a three arcs progression and here it is: 1) wake up in a bunker and escape it, learning about the horror at hand and the basic gameplay 2) explore the various sites on the surface to discover what's behind the problem and how to fight it 3) go to the space station and destroy the evil AI. And if you want an original setting which is rarely used, you could try a pure Sword-and-sandal settings in a greek-mythology universe. It's familiar to most people, it limits the technology available without preventing crafting tons of useful things and greek mythology got a lot of cool creatures to meet while fighting the horde of Hades through the various place that you can expect from a classic rogue-like: let's say you need the horns of a minotaur trapped in his labyrinth, the eyes of Gorgons and cyclops and the wings of a erinyes to travel to the underworld (the final dungeons). The game setting could be multiple islands between which you can sail during your odyssey. Here is the arc: you start as the bastard son/daughter of some petty greek king of one of the last islands/states not invaded by the force of hades, he sent you on a quest to save the world from the undead invasion, you must find a way to travel and then go to the temple of the god of your choice (and hope the god wasn't destroyed by Hades yet) and then travel across the undeads/monsters infested greek world to get what you need to open the last dungeon (hell) and solve the problem. Also the greek gods are a bunch of dicks and assholes so players can expect rng generated bullshit while sailing/travelling around from place to place if they did the right/wrong things. But whatever setting you choose for your game, try to keep it simple. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 11:06
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The King of Swag posted:Again, this is all just the thoughts that have been going through my head about the idea. I don't know yet if we'll actually go through with it, but I like to be prepared in the situation that we do.
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Mar 18, 2014 11:31
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Cardiovorax posted:Promising that modding will make up for the lack of long-term support also doesn't help, because it never does unless you're making a triple-A game played by millions of people. I didn't promise that though? This one has me confused; I mentioned it would be nice if a modding community developed in the wake of the project being finished, but I didn't say anything about hoping the modding community would shore up the project and any possible failings or shortcomings. As for liking large bloated RLs, that's all well in good, but I think it also plays into exactly why RLs are generally not commercial ventures. Commercial ventures need to have well-defined limits and goals, which goes directly against the concept of a decade long, aimless project that just throws anything anyone can think of into it. Personally I think bloat and aimless additions are the monsters that eat all the fun out of a roguelike (at least if you're attempting to play it with set goals), leaving it a sad testament to bad game design, but that's the beauty of the roguelike community and why I love it so much. There's something for everyone and the barrier to entry is low enough that anyone that can't find what they're looking for, has a reasonable shot of developing it themselves.
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Mar 18, 2014 11:40
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Sorry, I guess I misread that. My point was, a lot of people already had the same idea you did, which is to apply commercial design practices to the roguelike genre. They're pretty much universally unsuccessful, because they always fail at measuring up to the free competition. The reason roguelike games are generally not commercial ventures isn't just because they break the scope of the commercial product lifecycle, but also because the demography that plays them wants specific things from them, which that sort of limited effort can't produce without a significant investment of money and manpower. Unless you can offer something to make yourself stand out other than "we're going to use commercial design practices without having the team or the budget to do so well" you've just got a recipe for failure on your hands. The most genuinely successful commercial roguelikes on the market are probably the Nintendo DS Mystery Dungeon games, but you don't have as titanic a franchise as Final Fantasy or Pokemon to ride on.
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Mar 18, 2014 12:13
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Dungeons of Dredmor was pretty decently succesful, I thought. I didn't buy it and I probably wouldn't buy this, though, unless you really blew my mind with it. I don't think just doing it well is enough, I think you'd really have to come up with something innovative and fun, like Dwarf Fortress or Minecraft. Not just another flavor of roguelike. I've always had visions of some kind of Stalker roguelike game that has you going on missions from a central bar area or something, that would be interesting and unique and I would definitely pay for it, because there isn't anything like that. I wouldn't pay money for something that is like cataclysm, unless it was really just loving fantastically well done.
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Mar 18, 2014 13:29
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The King of Swag posted:I used to earn spending money as a kid and early teen making and selling shareware games through old-school physical media distribution, but the likes of Kickstarter and crowd-funding are completely foreign to me. In fact, I would say that if you have enough funds to develop to the point of a playable but incomplete game, then you'd be better off trying to get it released on Steam or one of the various other (easier to get into) digital distribution channels as an Early Access title. Which would make that an excellent example of what not to put into your kickstarter. If you feel that would detract from the quality of the game, don't do it. Just let people pitch whatever they want, with a minimum level in order to get a copy of the game when it's done, and beta access when you're ready to test/show off what you have more freely. Essentially kickstarter at its core is just 'Here's this idea I have, here's how I think I can do it, here's why you should trust me, if all of these things sound good to you, give me some money and I'll do it.' It's a conventional pitch, you just do it to everyone, rather than a studio exec. It'd probably be a good idea to design the game to be extremely moddable, you don't have to make the mods yourself, but make it so that other people can easily turn it into specifically what they like, as well as being a solid game itself. You may not like all the mods but the idea is that people would buy your game, and install the mods they want, to make it the game they want. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 17:02
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