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fool_of_sound posted:
For Indian characters only.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:55
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Zoinker posted:Patch notes are up! Innnnteresting Patch Notes posted:- Factions will now revolt as a single unified realm under a temporary title also finally quote:- Characters can now have up to five lovers at the same time.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:55
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Groogy posted:MODDING Ahahaaa! Finally! This is great for modding! I'd been waiting on working more on my Sonendar fantasy mod till RoI came out, but these mechanics are just perfect for it!! We can have inland seas now, and with them inland merchant republics!
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Mar 18, 2014 16:56
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quote:- Characters can now have up to five lovers at the same time. 
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Mar 18, 2014 16:56
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Zoinker posted:For Indian characters only. Yeah, I was wrong. You now have to actually send your heir to a foreign court in order to get them to convert; you can't just invite a different religion courtier.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:56
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double nine posted:How the hell can I then culture/religion-flip my heirs if I want to create a culture-specific Kingdom or a different-religion branch of my dynasty for shits-and-giggles-and oh god why did I create a reformed norse dynasty branch and gave it holdings?!? I'm not sure about doing it for your dynasty but it can't you still create a new culture-specific independent realm of whatever level by giving the appropriate holdings to a vassal of a different religion/culture and then granting them independence? I guess you could have them be educating your heir before that, and then give them independence which will mean you're no longer their employer, but I forget if granting independence causes the ward to be sent back home automatically.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:57
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Earwicker posted:I'm not sure about doing it for your dynasty but it can't you still create a new culture-specific independent realm of whatever level by giving the appropriate holdings to a vassal of a different religion/culture and then granting them independence? Which is a stupidly convoluted was of doing this. They could just disable conversion for the AI, I don't see why the player has to be punished like this.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:59
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Earwicker posted:I'm not sure about doing it for your dynasty but it can't you still create a new culture-specific independent realm of whatever level by giving the appropriate holdings to a vassal of a different religion/culture and then granting them independence? Maybe, but either way it's going to be more difficult to pull of. drat you paradox and interfering with my bullshit!
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Mar 18, 2014 16:59
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Some not-so minor ones in here; maybe minor in coding but not minor in gameplay: - You can no longer usurp the sole primary title off of someone with a different religion if he has any holdings within it - You no longer get an opinion bonus from your vassals for defending against rebels, adventurers and the like - You can no longer call allies to help you defend against peasant, heretic and religious rebels - Characters will no longer get 'Marriage Ties' opinion bonus towards their spouse. - Sons asking for titles can now start an adventure for one of your titles if refused. Especially common among Muslims. - Doubled the Prestige that newborn characters get from their dynasty at birth - Doubled the Prestige you get from the dynasty of your spouse when marrying - Strengthened adventurers in general and - Pressing the skull icon will now navigate to the killer (if he is known)
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Mar 18, 2014 17:02
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Surely that number should be based on one's diplomatic skill.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:03
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Caufman posted:Surely that number should be based on one's diplomatic skill. Intrigue, I think 
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Mar 18, 2014 17:04
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Torrannor posted:Which is a stupidly convoluted was of doing this. They could just disable conversion for the AI, I don't see why the player has to be punished like this. I'm guessing they did it as some gesture towards historicity since the idea of a medieval ruler deliberately trying to make their heir be a heretic or infidel as part of some plan to create a heretical or infidel future branch of their dynasty is kind of absurd if you think about it.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:04
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quote:- Characters can now have up to five lovers at the same time.  I'm interested in trying a Nestorian game, too, now that they're not a heresy and have their own holy order and everything. I'm also really looking forward to this: quote:- When choosing educate character for a child, a suitable guardian will now be pre-picked (for the cases where you don't want to bother to pick one yourself). Finally, quote:- Now takes terrain and unit quality into account when determining whether to run away from enemies. All in all, this sounds like a really good patch/expansion and I'm super excited!
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Mar 18, 2014 17:05
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DrSunshine posted:Playing as Abyssinia at the Old Gods start, what can I do besides pray that the Abassids don't come calling? I dallied too long and the Sultan of Egypt swore loyalty to the Caliph, so now it's this ginormous blob that can basically destroy me at any time. Do I have any hope of reclaiming the throne of Egypt? I did this a patch or two ago so I don't know if it's still viable, but I pulled this off by allying with the Byzantines ASAP, parking my chancellor in Constantinople to improve relations, and declaring holy wars for Egypt. My good relations allowed me to call the Byzantines in to more or less do my fighting for me. Eventually I was strong enough that I could expand westward until I had captured every single African province. My dynasty ended up taking the throne in Byzantium and converting the empire to Miaphysitism, which then spread throughout Europe. I should have finished that game, it was really awesome.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:06
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Torrannor posted:Which is a stupidly convoluted was of doing this. They could just disable conversion for the AI, I don't see why the player has to be punished like this. Or you could just do: fool_of_sound posted:You now have to actually send your heir to a foreign court in order to get them to convert; you can't just invite a different religion courtier. which is a lot simpler and has the bonus of being a bit more realistic. I'd have tied it to the culture and religion of the tutor's location rather than the ruler (so you could culture-flip in-house by moving your capital to a proper area) but I'd always thought you would need immersion to properly convert someone or teach a new language/cultural tradition. In any case, all those patch notes are really amazing and I'm looking forward to release (next week right?). I guess I should try and finish out my Occitania game before then!
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Mar 18, 2014 17:07
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Arglebargle III posted:- You no longer get an opinion bonus from your vassals for defending against rebels, adventurers and the like I don't really get the rationale for this. It makes perfect sense for allies to help each other defend against peasant and heretical uprisings both gameplay wise and historically.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:11
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:so the game will stop bugging me about cousins and siblings and "kinsmen" and other kids I don't give a poo poo about. It would nice if they would let you specify a child as a ward before they turn six as well. This would let you pre-assign important children to be educated properly when they come of age and let the game deal with the rest. This is especially useful for children not directly in your court (say, the son of your landed heir) when you won't even get a notification when they need an educator, and instead your heir will just assign one. You pretty much need to make a note of the date that they become the right age so you can jump in there and assign your desired educator.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:12
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:I'm also really looking forward to this: Counterpoint: Forgetting about educating your heir (because the game didn't notify you) until he comes of age as an arbitrary, celibate, content Detatched Priest.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:13
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Zoinker posted:Counterpoint: Forgetting about educating your heir (because the game didn't notify you) until he comes of age as an arbitrary, celibate, content Detatched Priest. Well, I interpreted it as you still getting the notification, it's just that when you select it it says "hey, this dude will be an okay guardian i guess" and then you either sign off on it or find someone else. It could go either way, though.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:24
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Some of this is bullshit.quote:- Sons asking for titles can now start an adventure for one of your titles if refused. Especially common among Muslims. (event 37000) quote:- Children can no longer pick up the religion or culture of a guardian if the guardian does not share the religion or culture of his employer quote:- You can no longer usurp the sole primary title off of someone with a different religion if he has any holdings within it quote:- You no longer get an opinion bonus from your vassals for defending against rebels, adventurers and the like quote:- Strengthened adventurers in general VVVV - I thought that existed already, at least for women. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 17:39
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- Added equal-opportunity tumbling of courtiers for women and homosexuals.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:56
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correct me if I'm wrong, aren't Adventurers and Rebel stacks already too powerful? This seems like it'd make revolts potentially game-ending.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:10
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If they had taken out the bullshit "Random fully trained troops out of nowhere flock to Rebel Duke Douchebag" event, I'd be OK with that.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:14
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Robindaybird posted:correct me if I'm wrong, aren't Adventurers and Rebel stacks already too powerful? This seems like it'd make revolts potentially game-ending. Yes, like most changes in the past half-dozen versions this is loaded with "gently caress you for even thinking about treating this like a game instead of a simulation. Except for when it would be more fun to treat it like a simulation, in which case gently caress you, have a giant doomstack spawned out of thin air."
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Mar 18, 2014 18:16
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yes, like most changes in the past half-dozen versions this is loaded with "gently caress you for even thinking about treating this like a game instead of a simulation. Except for when it would be more fun to treat it like a simulation, in which case gently caress you, have a giant doomstack spawned out of thin air." It's impossible to simulate the physical unpleasantness of life in the middle ages so they add extra annoyances to the game in more abstract ways to arouse anger and stress reactions in the player as a sort of analog, the stress that this puts your mental state is calculated as an estimated proportion of the damage done to the body by medieval diets, hygiene, and general lifestyle.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:21
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Earwicker posted:It's impossible to simulate the physical unpleasantness of life in the middle ages so they add extra annoyances to the game in more abstract ways to arouse anger and stress reactions in the player as a sort of analog, the stress that this puts your mental state is calculated as an estimated proportion of the damage done to the body by medieval diets, hygiene, and general lifestyle. And we'll play it for hundreds of hours anyways. paradoxfans.txt
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Mar 18, 2014 18:31
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"Hmmmm, decadence mechanics are causing about 0.6 Dysentery of misery, and we wanted more like 0.4 Serfdom. Better tone that down."
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Mar 18, 2014 18:31
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monster on a stick posted:Seriously? The last thing I need is #5 son going after a Duchy, and sometimes it isn't feasible to land them since revoking a barony/bishopric/city gives you tyranny points. Unless there is a way to say "next time the mayor/bishop dies, don't appoint someone because I have a kid to land." Also this shouldn't apply if I've married a son to a landed woman. You can't have your cake and eat it too, though. If you want to keep every one of that six province demesne for yourself and whichever of your kids is your heir, the other kids aren't necessarily going to be happy about it, are they? So do you dispossess your vassals to please your spare kids, or do your annoy your kids to keep your vassals happy? This change just means that either of those choices actually can (not always) have teeth. Also, event 37000 only fires for relatives that are in your court - so yes, if you marry the spares off and send them elsewhere (landed woman or matrilineal marriage) then they won't cause you problems. At least not through the adventurer mechanic: their new host might just declare a war on your for their claim. quote:If a Christian ruler owns 80% of Arabia, they should be able to usurp, primary title or no. If a Christian ruler owns 80% of Arabia and the other 20% is some rump Sultan's primary title, they can Holy War the remaining 20% in one, maybe two wars, and take the title then. What's the difference? quote:This is serious BS. I understand that some of us game the system by letting rebels just sit there - this is especially helpful when a new ruler takes over - but eliminating it entirely is just going to make micromanagement that much harder. Also if this applies to Holy Wars/Jihads against you, that will be complete and utter BS. I'm pretty sure this won't apply to holy wars, Jiihads, or claim wars. Adventurers and heretic/peasant/religious rebels are basically treated the same way by the game (the whole temporary title mechanic, also the match_mult generated stacks) so it makes sense for the coders to lump them together. But leaving thirty rebels alive to exploit the opinion bonus was, to use your language, bullshit. edit: Also, I think a couple of people are confusing adventurers and heretic/peasant/religious rebels (who don't get the Vultures Flock event in my experience) with faction/vassal rebels (who do). I've honestly never had a problem with the former group and never seen them succeed (even when I wanted them to), but I guess CK2+ nerfed event stacks more than vanilla did in the SoA hotfixes. quote:VVVV - I thought that existed already, at least for women. Even if they did it already, they've likely changed enough of those mechanics to add multiple lovers that someone probably just put it in the changelog again. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 18:50
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Yeah, overall I think most of these changes are pretty positive. Curious what the new events pertaining to the Ghaznavids will be. Also pumped that Hordes are apparently smarter about going in the "right" direction now. Fuligin fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 19:41
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Dallan Invictus posted:You can't have your cake and eat it too, though. If you want to keep every one of that six province demesne for yourself and whichever of your kids is your heir, the other kids aren't necessarily going to be happy about it, are they? So do you dispossess your vassals to please your spare kids, or do your annoy your kids to keep your vassals happy? This change just means that either of those choices actually can (not always) have teeth. Wait, how would it be "have your cake and eat it too" by having an unlanded son who was far down the line of succession? If you are expanding rapidly through holy wars or something, you're probably planning to make that kid a count/duke anyway. If you mean succession, chances are that (a) son #5 didn't receive the best education anyway due to being so far down the line of succession, and (b) you've probably got a big enough dynasty to handle a character who doesn't have children since I think all succession mechanics handle this scenario. quote:If a Christian ruler owns 80% of Arabia and the other 20% is some rump Sultan's primary title, they can Holy War the remaining 20% in one, maybe two wars, and take the title then. What's the difference? Waiting 20 years because of the cooldown? Not being able to vassalize anyone who is of your religion in the meantime since you aren't their de jure liege? Sorry, but if someone controls 80% of a kingdom, they should be able to say "I'm king now" regardless of who had the title before. It's bad enough doing this when half the time the Caliph is fighting off some minor revolt and you can't seize the title because it's being contested by some random douchebag. quote:I'm pretty sure this won't apply to holy wars, Jiihads, or claim wars. Adventurers and heretic/peasant/religious rebels are basically treated the same way by the game (the whole temporary title mechanic, also the match_mult generated stacks) so it makes sense for the coders to lump them together. But leaving thirty rebels alive to exploit the opinion bonus was, to use your language, bullshit. "Pretty sure"  A better solution would have had the opinion depend on the strength of the attacker. So the thirty rebels would basically be +1 opinion boost which is nothing, 30K adventurers would be a lot more.
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Mar 18, 2014 20:00
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monster on a stick posted:As others have pointed out, maybe you can send them to another court, but it's actually hard to do this in the game. Foreign courts (not a vassal) will generally reject this offer. Finding a vassal with a different religion is generally difficult and there is a limited selection (e.g. you may find someone of that religion but their other stats suck and no way do you want your heir to be like that.) If you ask me, your heir converting to a different religion is something that should be hard to do, because it's so utterly ahistorical. And as for your last statement, having less-than-ideal stats seems like a pretty fair trade-off for giving your heir a different religion. monster on a stick posted:Wait, how would it be "have your cake and eat it too" by having an unlanded son who was far down the line of succession? If you are expanding rapidly through holy wars or something, you're probably planning to make that kid a count/duke anyway. If you mean succession, chances are that (a) son #5 didn't receive the best education anyway due to being so far down the line of succession, and (b) you've probably got a big enough dynasty to handle a character who doesn't have children since I think all succession mechanics handle this scenario. I would say that the fault here is a lack of a concrete "promise title" system. It could add a lot of flavour to diplomacy if you could promise titles to specific characters, and then have them bug you about the promise instead of vague "I'd really love to be landed" events, though those could still fire in the event that they aren't promised anything.
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Mar 18, 2014 20:39
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Rebels adventurers and the like sound basically like you don't get the bonus for rebelling against province rebellions and adventurer attacks, not that you'd lose it for holy wars and jihads.
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Mar 18, 2014 20:43
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monster on a stick posted:Wait, how would it be "have your cake and eat it too" by having an unlanded son who was far down the line of succession? If you are expanding rapidly through holy wars or something, you're probably planning to make that kid a count/duke anyway. If you mean succession, chances are that (a) son #5 didn't receive the best education anyway due to being so far down the line of succession, and (b) you've probably got a big enough dynasty to handle a character who doesn't have children since I think all succession mechanics handle this scenario. What I mean by "having your cake and eating it too" is keeping All The Family Lands for yourself/your chosen heir and also not having any real problems as a result. If Son #5 is hanging around the court instead of off serving in a holy order or running a crusader state or boning a duchess somewhere, it's not exactly bullshit that he might be unhappy with it, especially if he's ambitious for more. Right now, the downside for not giving them land is a trivial opinion penalty, which might cause you problems if you have enough disgruntled vassals and one of them invites the kid to their court (except that he'll inherit at best a weak claim so even that won't be a danger unless you are spectacularly unlucky.) So the only reason to actually give younger sons land is sentiment. Even if you're expanding, the usual play is to give the land to a distant cousin because you don't want to empower someone with claims on you. This is all well and good, but the choice to ignore unlanded sons needs to have more of a downside, and "chance of an adventure and a civil war" is a decent one, especially since there are lots of nonlethal ways to avoid it (send the kid to a monastery/holy order/bishopric, marry them off matrilineally or to a landed woman, raise them with Content tutors so 37000 is less likely to fire...) quote:Waiting 20 years because of the cooldown? Not being able to vassalize anyone who is of your religion in the meantime since you aren't their de jure liege? Sorry, but if someone controls 80% of a kingdom, they should be able to say "I'm king now" regardless of who had the title before. It's bad enough doing this when half the time the Caliph is fighting off some minor revolt and you can't seize the title because it's being contested by some random douchebag. The design suggests that, between religious enemies, de jure territory is more a geographical suggestion than a "cultural tradition". This is why you don't need to forge claims against them, this is why holy wars and crusades take much bigger pieces of land at once than claim wars between Christians. Between co-religionists, there's the framework of shared recognition of who runs where (as reflected by the mediieval tradition of the Pope crowning kings). Between religious enemies, you don't have that shared tradition so you run each other out of the land in question and then raise your flag over the ashes. I suppose I'm not much of a map painter which is why the recent trend of Paradox changes tend to agree with me, but seriously, you have 600 years (possibly longer, does RoI come with another time extension?), that's plenty of time to extinguish the infidels properly. quote:"Pretty sure" I'm not following the dev diary thread because I'm at work, so "pretty sure" is as good as I can do. This is a better solution, yes, but it's also one that would require more new code so I can see why they wouldn't take it, especially since the bonus is not really meant to apply against internal threats (rebels and adventurers-with-claims are really internal or dynastic/personal disputes), but rather to apply to defense against genuine foreign invasion (holy wars, jihads, prepared invasions, foreign state claims). Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 20:47
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Wait a sec, from the patch notes:quote:-Added a special decision to form the HRE This is super cool, I was actually dabbling with a mod that would work like this (assuming that the de jure HRE is now called "Germanica" or something, and a Catholic emperor can proclaim themself King of the Romans).
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Mar 18, 2014 20:50
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I'm still scratching my head re: the reason for setting culture and religion almost in stone. If you really want to change your culture, you take the drawback that you no longer have control over the trait events of your child, making their education more risky. That's enough disincentive to mess too much with religion and/or culture deliberately.
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Mar 18, 2014 21:05
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monster on a stick posted:Some of this is bullshit. Unlanded sons being completely harmless except for a minor prestige penalty was ridiculous anyway. Religion/culture swaps being as easy as they were was ridiculous too, and allowed a lot of gameyness. It says sole primary title in the patch notes, so not all primary titles will be protected. Not sure exactly how that'll work. Guess it'll be a little more difficult to fracture empires and big kingdoms. When you own half of Europe, event rebels are so common and take so long to siege a meaningful amount of territory that just one can block factions for several years - and two more event rebellions will probably have started by the time the first one gets the warscore down low enough to be a threat.
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Mar 18, 2014 21:08
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DStecks posted:If you ask me, your heir converting to a different religion is something that should be hard to do, because it's so utterly ahistorical. And as for your last statement, having less-than-ideal stats seems like a pretty fair trade-off for giving your heir a different religion. True, but that is already the case; if you want to convert your heir to another religion, there is usually a slim selection of vassals, but they will almost always accept. I don't think I've ever seen a foreign court accept an education offer. It may as well be impossible. Even within the game though, it's not all that uncommon - the Mongols typically convert from Tengri, mending the Schism causes about half of Catholic rulers to convert, beating up unreformed Pagans in a Holy War will get them to convert much of the time,etc. Perhaps being able to switch should be a more common event/choice if the moral authority of your religion is low compared to other religions, e.g. if Catholicism is on the ropes due to losing Rome to the Sunnites, you get the opportunity to say "screw this, Islam must really be the light." quote:I would say that the fault here is a lack of a concrete "promise title" system. It could add a lot of flavour to diplomacy if you could promise titles to specific characters, and then have them bug you about the promise instead of vague "I'd really love to be landed" events, though those could still fire in the event that they aren't promised anything. I wouldn't mind if I could place a 'hold' on a city/bishopric saying that next time someone kicks the bucket, it goes to the son who wants to be landed so badly. That or lower the penalty for revoking the title of a low-level vassal - realistically I doubt your Dukes will care very much if you revoke a barony to give your son something to do. This one is new: quote:- Added a negative opinion modifier for vassal kings vs their emperor liege Another reason not to create Kingdoms once you are an Emperor.
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Mar 18, 2014 21:10
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double nine posted:I'm still scratching my head re: the reason for setting culture and religion almost in stone. If you really want to change your culture, you take the drawback that you no longer have control over the trait events of your child, making their education more risky. That's enough disincentive to mess too much with religion and/or culture deliberately. I always thought that my kid having a different culture was a sufficient drawback to him having an awesome tutor (assuming the player-character is a bottom-rank profession or you wanted your kid to be a pro diplomat/general instead of a pro priest). It was an interesting double-edged sword mechanic.
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Mar 18, 2014 21:11
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Tsyni posted:I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the thread recently. Is there some issue with achievements and iron man? I am not using mods, and I played one game where the tool-tip for iron man on the loading screen said the save was messed up and achievements were disabled, so I started a new game and got some achievements at first, but now I'm not getting ones that I should be andddd I have no idea why. I've been wondering about this too. I've been playing an ironman byzantine game, and the Pentarch, Legacy of Rome, and SPQR achievements popped just fine, but since then I should have also earned Empressive, United the Kingdoms, And Stay Out!, and Keeping it in the Family achievements, none of which have showed up. I was also going for the Persistent Survivor one in this run, but since the others aren't popping I'm less inclined to finish it.
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Mar 18, 2014 21:16
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monster on a stick posted:True, but that is already the case; if you want to convert your heir to another religion, there is usually a slim selection of vassals, but they will almost always accept. I don't think I've ever seen a foreign court accept an education offer. It may as well be impossible. From patch notes: -Foreign rulers are now generally quite willing to take on wards as hostages
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Mar 18, 2014 21:18
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