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I pick up large collections of jank either real cheap or for free from locals and then build lovely repacks that we then send overseas to the troops so they can ghetto draft/pod for free. So when I sort it goes by edition, how rare it is, then by color. We do the same with video games, dvds, and every once in awhile pen and paper gaming books like DnD/Shadowrun.
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Mar 20, 2014 16:31
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I posted an article yesterday that got people real riled up. It's about the inevitable death of Legacy. http://blog.mtgprice.com/2014/03/19/leaving-legacy/
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Mar 20, 2014 16:38
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The Wonder Weapon posted:I posted an article yesterday that got people real riled up. It's about the inevitable death of Legacy. http://blog.mtgprice.com/2014/03/19/leaving-legacy/ You horrible monster! I think one thing, not really finance related but modern has support that local stores can get in with. FNM, GPT's, etc. You don't have to hope for a local legacy scene, which many of us do not have, or travel to SCG events or the yearly GP. GPT's can only be legacy format if the GP is legacy, but all GPT's can be modern. In a nutshell, for me, and I presume for many others we can travel 2 hours or less for modern events often, and this is less true of legacy. This is the main reason why I play modern over legacy. Its not really a price thing, I'd get a legacy deck if I had opportunities to use it. It is also more likely to become true for modern, if your store doesn't do modern events, they may in the future. When legacy "dies" is a matter of opinion, I think it will be a good long while. It's making someone money on singles, but so is modern. As long as retailers are invested in new product and singles to make a profit, they should be good either way when reprints happen. They should see an uptick in sealed product sold, drafts, etc, or as modern desire expands they should see increased demand for singles. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 16:44
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Deckit posted:Everyone meet up and organize each others cards. Its like a tupperware party but for wizards. DIY card catalog
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Mar 20, 2014 16:56
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jassi007 posted:You horrible monster! I think one thing, not really finance related but modern has support that local stores can get in with. FNM, GPT's, etc. You don't have to hope for a local legacy scene, which many of us do not have, or travel to SCG events or the yearly GP. GPT's can only be legacy format if the GP is legacy, but all GPT's can be modern. In a nutshell, for me, and I presume for many others we can travel 2 hours or less for modern events often, and this is less true of legacy. This is the main reason why I play modern over legacy. Its not really a price thing, I'd get a legacy deck if I had opportunities to use it. It is also more likely to become true for modern, if your store doesn't do modern events, they may in the future. When legacy "dies" is a matter of opinion, I think it will be a good long while. It's making someone money on singles, but so is modern. As long as retailers are invested in new product and singles to make a profit, they should be good either way when reprints happen. They should see an uptick in sealed product sold, drafts, etc, or as modern desire expands they should see increased demand for singles. You're right, the availability of Modern events is a huge issue. Even if Legacy looks more fun, if your options are 15 legacy events a year or 70 modern, which one are you going to pick?
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Mar 20, 2014 16:59
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The Wonder Weapon posted:You're right, the availability of Modern events is a huge issue. Even if Legacy looks more fun, if your options are 15 legacy events a year or 70 modern, which one are you going to pick? I think that plus how many really good Inn-RtR block cards are used in modern is going to be the biggest push to move to the format. If you've got lili's, snaps, Domri's, Geists, Voices, Shocks, you probably can trade enough to get into some modern deck. The same can't really be said for legacy. Legacy takes actual money to get into these days, or overtrading by a very large margin. Like trading at buylist prices on your cards for sell list prices on theirs.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:09
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The Wonder Weapon posted:I posted an article yesterday that got people real riled up. It's about the inevitable death of Legacy. http://blog.mtgprice.com/2014/03/19/leaving-legacy/ Man, a lot of people are really upset by things you didn't say 
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Mar 20, 2014 17:11
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Death Bot posted:Man, a lot of people are really upset by things you didn't say They just have to read the title and whoosh it is like showing red to a raging bull.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:16
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Death Bot posted:Man, a lot of people are really upset by things you didn't say It's a real hot button issue for some. I imagine it mostly has to do with not liking hearing that your $5,000 Legacy deck may not always be the most valuable thing in your life.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:22
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To be fair, the title is baiting a thing that gets said a lot on reddit (not as much around here) Some people just loving love to predict the death of legacy like its a Doomsday Cult. It is hard to have a discussion about the future of legacy because this group of people who loves to chant DOOOOM!!! shows up and the fans of legacy and the rational people who say "its doing just fine for now" show up to dispute it. Long term unless they revisit it which shall not be named, modern is going to supplant it. This year is the year that I think people finally take modern serious, in the next 3-5 years we'll get to the year where everyone generally agrees modern is the #1 non-rotating format. Then another 3-5 years beyond that we'll think of legacy like we currently think of vintage.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:23
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The Wonder Weapon posted:You're right, the availability of Modern events is a huge issue. Even if Legacy looks more fun, if your options are 15 legacy events a year or 70 modern, which one are you going to pick? I think you actually undersold the effect that would happen when SCG starts doing Modern Opens. In 2013, SCG experimented with deviations from the Saturday Standard Sunday Legacy formula. They admitted themselves it didn't work as well as they planned. But they also never ran Modern. So when the 2014 schedule was released, I was surprised at first glance to see their statement of assurance that the 2014 season would stick strictly to the formula, despite everyone knowing they'd be running GP Richmond. But I think they know that they have the power to turn Legacy into Vintage 2.0 at any time, so the smartest financial decision for them was to do what they did: an upfront promise to support Legacy through 2014, and to carefully cash out on non-reserve list staples. Maybe 2015 is too quick, but I wouldn't bat an eyelash at hearing 2016 is the first year where Legacy participation declined.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:25
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jassi007 posted:To be fair, the title is baiting a thing that gets said a lot on reddit (not as much around here) Some people just loving love to predict the death of legacy like its a Doomsday Cult. It is hard to have a discussion about the future of legacy because this group of people who loves to chant DOOOOM!!! shows up and the fans of legacy and the rational people who say "its doing just fine for now" show up to dispute it. The title is actually supposed to be a play on "Leaving a Legacy," a long-running Legacy article series over at CFB. I'm not sure how many caught it though.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:27
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Did SCG ever run Vintage tournaments?
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Mar 20, 2014 17:27
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I could see 2015 being they year they start doing hybrid Legacy/Modern Sundays.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:29
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AnacondaHL posted:I think you actually undersold the effect that would happen when SCG starts doing Modern Opens. I guarantee they had no inkling GP Richmond was going to be what it was. I'd wager the average GP plans on 1000-2000 attendees for the main event. Even in 2013 modern was not the wildfire that it is now. Everything that has happened (price wise) started this year approx. two weeks before the B&R announcement. In all of 2013 Tarns and Misties were steady around $35 until modern masters, then saw a bump to $40ish and held there for the rest of the year. They've gone from about 40-45 to 100 in less than 3 months.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:31
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jassi007 posted:To be fair, the title is baiting a thing that gets said a lot on reddit (not as much around here) Some people just loving love to predict the death of legacy like its a Doomsday Cult. It is hard to have a discussion about the future of legacy because this group of people who loves to chant DOOOOM!!! shows up and the fans of legacy and the rational people who say "its doing just fine for now" show up to dispute it. 6-10 years is an unbelievably optimistic estimate. Modern is already more popular than Legacy in most areas. It won't take SCG 3-5 years to figure out just how much money is out there for Modern Opens.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:32
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Brownhat posted:6-10 years is an unbelievably optimistic estimate. Modern is already more popular than Legacy in most areas. It won't take SCG 3-5 years to figure out just how much money is out there for Modern Opens. Could be. I tend to hedge on the side of legacy being a gradual decline. It is entirely possible that what we're seeing in 2014 is an acceleration of modern and now that someone mentions SCG possibly taking from GP Richmond is adding modern in 2015 is entirely plausible. I am in modern and not legacy so this would be fine with me. The more opportunities to play modern the better imo.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:36
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The Wonder Weapon posted:I posted an article yesterday that got people real riled up. It's about the inevitable death of Legacy. http://blog.mtgprice.com/2014/03/19/leaving-legacy/ Nice article. Where are people riled up? I want to see defenders of unsustainable deflationary commodities. E: well nvm. Just saw the slew of posts. That's what happens when you leave the browser in the reply window for a while. Figures it was reddit. Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 17:37
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jassi007 posted:I guarantee they had no inkling GP Richmond was going to be what it was. I'd wager the average GP plans on 1000-2000 attendees for the main event. Even in 2013 modern was not the wildfire that it is now. Everything that has happened (price wise) started this year approx. two weeks before the B&R announcement. In all of 2013 Tarns and Misties were steady around $35 until modern masters, then saw a bump to $40ish and held there for the rest of the year. They've gone from about 40-45 to 100 in less than 3 months. I'm pretty sure they had close to 3000 playmats made ahead of time, so they had some idea. They also had noticeably more judges on staff than normal, even before they invited a bunch of judges (including myself) at the last minute.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:43
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The problem with modern is that its boring. You don't get to play with any of the fun powerful cards, and it is entirely too fair. In Legacy everything is unfair to some extent which leads to much more interaction and entertainment value per game than modern has. In modern you often don't even have to interact with your opponent until turn three to win. In Legacy if your deck doesn't interact meaningfully on turn one or two, you likely have lost or are losing the game already. Plus the mana in modern is too good. There's no good Wasteland effect to keep people off their greedy-rear end 3-4 color goodstuff decks. Also they ban the hell out of every combo deck that's halfway decent, making it a shitbox full of creatures butting heads forever. I want Magic to feel like two powerful wizards battling each,other, not two tired zookeepers throwing exotic pets into a ring and watching them fight.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:50
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Just curious, but could you break down how your experience as a judge at a massive event like that was? (Brownhat)
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Mar 20, 2014 17:51
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L0cke17 posted:The problem with modern is that its boring. You don't get to play with any of the fun powerful cards, and it is entirely too fair. In Legacy everything is unfair to some extent which leads to much more interaction and entertainment value per game than modern has. In modern you often don't even have to interact with your opponent until turn three to win. In Legacy if your deck doesn't interact meaningfully on turn one or two, you likely have lost or are losing the game already. Modern is a very fresh format. I have no doubt that it will develop it's own personality and unique powerful interactions as the pool deepens. In Legacy, you are punished for greedy landbases with Wasteland. In Modern, you are punished for greedy manabases by lightning bolts and blood moons. You're still punished, just in a different manner.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:54
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jassi007 posted:I guarantee they had no inkling GP Richmond was going to be what it was. I'd wager the average GP plans on 1000-2000 attendees for the main event. Even in 2013 modern was not the wildfire that it is now. Everything that has happened (price wise) started this year approx. two weeks before the B&R announcement. In all of 2013 Tarns and Misties were steady around $35 until modern masters, then saw a bump to $40ish and held there for the rest of the year. They've gone from about 40-45 to 100 in less than 3 months. They didn't know the scale of what GP Richmond would become (as the thousand+ of us in the Pink tournament were fully aware of since we had to walk a literal block away from the main room to participate), but they certainly knew what it was going to be. A one shot huge event that would inject sudden interest into Modern because they know how to attract tournament players and to advertise. Had they supported Modern in the Open Series as well it would have imploded the interest in Legacy. They took the stance with the lowest financial risk, and will be fully prepared to adapt (e.g. if Wizards announces no more Legacy GPs in 2016, SCG will know exactly what to do.) edit: Also, SCG is very aware that Modern wasn't the Wildfire in 2013 as it is now, because they were the ones in late 2012 going around to all the dealers at Grand Prixs and buying every single Zendikar fetchland. (edit2: maybe that was Channelfireball, I forgot, but the point remains). They can start whatever fire they want for Modern and they know it. AnacondaHL fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 17:54
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L0cke17 posted:The problem with modern is that its boring. You don't get to play with any of the fun powerful cards, and it is entirely too fair. In Legacy everything is unfair to some extent which leads to much more interaction and entertainment value per game than modern has. In modern you often don't even have to interact with your opponent until turn three to win. In Legacy if your deck doesn't interact meaningfully on turn one or two, you likely have lost or are losing the game already. Spoken like someone who has not played Modern on a meaningful level.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:00
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Brownhat posted:I'm pretty sure they had close to 3000 playmats made ahead of time, so they had some idea. They also had noticeably more judges on staff than normal, even before they invited a bunch of judges (including myself) at the last minute. I'm pretty sure they ordered more at some point when their registration prediction model told them they were going to be larger than average, Ben Bleiweiss mentioned that in his blog, and then later said they couldn't place another order in time to get the rest of the playmats on site. I'd guess that they order 1500-2000ish mats, then realized they needed more and ordered enough for 3600 or whatever they had on site, then ordered the rest and will ship them out. they planned for one size, realized it was going to be bigger, upgraded plans a couple weeks out, then it accelerated so they upgraded again but much closer to the date. L0cke17 posted:The problem with modern is that its boring. You don't get to play with any of the fun powerful cards, and it is entirely too fair. In Legacy everything is unfair to some extent which leads to much more interaction and entertainment value per game than modern has. In modern you often don't even have to interact with your opponent until turn three to win. In Legacy if your deck doesn't interact meaningfully on turn one or two, you likely have lost or are losing the game already. Some people will just prefer the decks and metagame of legacy more. I could give a gently caress less about watching ever other person brainstorm for their first couple of turns until they flip a delver. That sounds tedious as gently caress. Also the whole, I can beat you on t2 unless your holding FoW just sounds awesome. Mulligan a ton and pray you don't get rolled! I will admit some legacy decks attract me, but they're more of the fairer type decks. That MUD stompy thing that is basically just Stompy Robots, I want to play that. To bad I need 4 city or traitors and 4 wastelands and 4 rishadan ports. I'd rather go buy all the poo poo for UWR control in modern or pod. That is my opinion.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:01
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The Wonder Weapon posted:Modern is a very fresh format. I have no doubt that it will develop it's own personality and unique powerful interactions as the pool deepens. Yeah I'm not really seeing how the Pod player is particularly sad about taking bolts to the face when they just drop a Kitchen Finks and turn it into a glorified ping. Or how UWR control is being punished when they just helix a creature and gain it all back. Blood Moon is one (very good) thing but Lightning Bolt doesn't remotely compare to Wasteland as a form of mana base punishment. And seconding modern being boring in comparison to Legacy. The card pool of modern might grow but it will grow slowly, and a lot of those cards will wind up in Legacy too anyways.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:03
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TheKingofSprings posted:Yeah I'm not really seeing how the Pod player is particularly sad about taking bolts to the face when they just drop a Kitchen Finks and turn it into a glorified ping. I don't even understand how wasteland is interesting. Oh neat a card that everyone can play to disrupt mana to help prevent t2 combo bullshit. It just makes me look at legacy and see an entry fee required for FoW and Wasteland to participate. I'm alson not terribly intersted in watching everyone brainstorm then fetch over and over. Modern is a format where everyone can play their spells. That sounds a lot more intersting. The biggest thing that modern lacks to see more diversity I think is a 1 mana black kill spell that isn't really narrow. Path and Bolt are too good to shape decks to be red, white, or both.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:08
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You're not being fair to legacy. I had many enjoyable games where we dumped our hands in thoughtseize/counter wars and beat each other up for 10 turns from multiple Mishra's factories. It sounds tedious but it's actually hilarious because then you realize your 0.50 card finished the game and not your $100 other cards. Unless you found a wasteland which trumps said 0.50 card. (Because it is $100.) I'm actually really curious as to what will happen when the eternal format shifts to modern. My LGS curio cavern is a hotbed of legacy grognards. I'm sure we're not the only ones since I heard NYC and some places on the west coast are also legacy venues. Most of the grognards never show up to other weekly events. They just play their legacy decks and laugh about $500 cardboard. They came out of the woodwork when legacy became a thing there. I don't foresee them taking part in modern. I can only imagine what will happen when their collections are reduced to $20 underground seas once again. E: drat this thread moves fast. I'm also typing on a mobile so eh.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:10
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The Wonder Weapon posted:Modern is a very fresh format. I have no doubt that it will develop it's own personality and unique powerful interactions as the pool deepens. But they have already removed so many of the unique powerful interactions. A 4/4 Vigilant Lifelinker on turn 3 is too strong, Jace is banned, despite the overabundance of Lightning Bolt. Plus WotC's kneejerk reaction to everything has been to ban everything remotely good or fun. I made the terrible mistake of playing three different decks in Modern before I wised up and quit (12-post, Eggs, Storm), every one of which had key cards banned within a few months. Admittedly, I started with Legacy, then tried out modern afterwards so it didn't hurt too bad, but it was still incredibly frustrating. Instead of banning those decks, they should have unbanned the answers to them (Top, Jace etc) or printed answers like Force and Daze. Also the fact that mana-denial isn't a viable strategy is frustrating as well.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:11
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jassi007 posted:I don't even understand how wasteland is interesting. Oh neat a card that everyone can play to disrupt mana to help prevent t2 combo bullshit. It just makes me look at legacy and see an entry fee required for FoW and Wasteland to participate. I'm alson not terribly intersted in watching everyone brainstorm then fetch over and over. Modern is a format where everyone can play their spells. That sounds a lot more intersting. The biggest thing that modern lacks to see more diversity I think is a 1 mana black kill spell that isn't really narrow. Path and Bolt are too good to shape decks to be red, white, or both. Disfigure and Tragic Slip are aaaaalmost good enough. Black needs like a reverse Wring Flesh, "Target creature gets -1/-3".
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Mar 20, 2014 18:15
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L0cke17 posted:But they have already removed so many of the unique powerful interactions. A 4/4 Vigilant Lifelinker on turn 3 is too strong, Jace is banned, despite the overabundance of Lightning Bolt. Plus WotC's kneejerk reaction to everything has been to ban everything remotely good or fun. I made the terrible mistake of playing three different decks in Modern before I wised up and quit (12-post, Eggs, Storm), every one of which had key cards banned within a few months. Admittedly, I started with Legacy, then tried out modern afterwards so it didn't hurt too bad, but it was still incredibly frustrating. Instead of banning those decks, they should have unbanned the answers to them (Top, Jace etc) or printed answers like Force and Daze. Also the fact that mana-denial isn't a viable strategy is frustrating as well. You have a bias for Legacy and do not really know what you're talking about. What 4/4 creature are you talking about? You're a terrible person for playing Eggs.  Storm is still a thing. Blood Moon maindeck is a viable strategy that top 8'd the Pro Tour.Edit: Dismember is another 1 mana removal spell that literally any deck can play.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:18
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If any of you can show me one Modern match 1/10th as good as Little Kid w/Storm vs. Hoodie Dude w/ Bant Counterbalance, I'll consider upgrading the format from Least Interesting Format Ever. Also, I literally watched a dude get beat up by 1/5 Dream Stalkers last weekend. Format is solid.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:19
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Top will never be unbanned. Top is also a perennial Legacy ban candidate, for the same reason it's banned in Modern - because it is the leading cause of 0-0-1 draws and makes extra time take a half hour. I will go so far as to say I would expect Skullclamp to be unbanned before Top.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:19
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Fox of Stone posted:You're not being fair to legacy. I had many enjoyable games where we dumped our hands in thoughtseize/counter wars and beat each other up for 10 turns from multiple Mishra's factories. It sounds tedious but it's actually hilarious because then you realize your 0.50 card finished the game and not your $100 other cards. Unless you found a wasteland which trumps said 0.50 card. (Because it is $100.) Posting to confirm that shitloads of people in NYC play legacy. My local shop in brooklyn (one of many) has legacy every Tuesday and regularly has 12+ players.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:19
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Fox of Stone posted:You're not being fair to legacy. I had many enjoyable games where we dumped our hands in thoughtseize/counter wars and beat each other up for 10 turns from multiple Mishra's factories. It sounds tedious but it's actually hilarious because then you realize your 0.50 card finished the game and not your $100 other cards. Unless you found a wasteland which trumps said 0.50 card. (Because it is $100.) Boo hoo, I'm not being fair. To those who prefer legacy, good for you. That doesn't mean modern isn't gaining traction or eventually going to be the primary format. For every person who is SPELLS > CREATURES I hate to tell you there are probably 3x-5x as many people who play magic who don't even get this and probably wouldn't agree. They've changed the game and it isn't going back.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:20
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L0cke17 posted:But they have already removed so many of the unique powerful interactions. A 4/4 Vigilant Lifelinker on turn 3 is too strong, Jace is banned, despite the overabundance of Lightning Bolt. Plus WotC's kneejerk reaction to everything has been to ban everything remotely good or fun. I made the terrible mistake of playing three different decks in Modern before I wised up and quit (12-post, Eggs, Storm), every one of which had key cards banned within a few months. Admittedly, I started with Legacy, then tried out modern afterwards so it didn't hurt too bad, but it was still incredibly frustrating. Instead of banning those decks, they should have unbanned the answers to them (Top, Jace etc) or printed answers like Force and Daze. Also the fact that mana-denial isn't a viable strategy is frustrating as well. 1. A uncounterable, revive-able 4/4 Vigilant Lifelinker on turn 3 that can also be a control-killing sword 2. Jace is banned, despite the overabundance of Lightning Bolt which doesn't kill him 3. I made the terrible mistake of playing three different decks in Modern before I wised up and quit (12-post, Eggs, Storm), every one of which had key cards banned within a few months, all of which were faster than the pre-defined desired speed of the format 4. they should have unbanned the answers to them (Top, Jace etc.) that add 5+ minutes to every single game The Wonder Weapon fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 18:22
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Toshimo posted:If any of you can show me one Modern match 1/10th as good as Little Kid w/Storm vs. Hoodie Dude w/ Bant Counterbalance, I'll consider upgrading the format from Least Interesting Format Ever. Do you have a link to that? I'd very much like to watch it. 
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Mar 20, 2014 18:22
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ScarletBrother posted:You have a bias for Legacy and do not really know what you're talking about. What 4/4 creature are you talking about? Stoneforge Mystic, actually. (Specifically Stoneforge fetching Batterskull)
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Mar 20, 2014 18:23
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The March Hare posted:Posting to confirm that shitloads of people in NYC play legacy. My local shop in brooklyn (one of many) has legacy every Tuesday and regularly has 12+ players. I like many people don't live in a major metro area. There are like 6 stores in an hour drive from me, none of them have regular legacy events. Before modern caught on, it was standard or draft. Period. Now we have more diversity of modern, commander, cube. I came back to magic in a big part because there is more diversity for someone who get bored of draft or standard. I honestly have nothing against legacy. I play modern because it is a format that I can actually play. I find opinions about boo hoo modern is so boring! to be stupid. People will surely change their mind about a format they play by being told how boring it is... jassi007 fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 18:24
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Fox of Stone posted:You're not being fair to legacy. I had many enjoyable games where we dumped our hands in thoughtseize/counter wars and beat each other up for 10 turns from multiple Mishra's factories. It sounds tedious but it's actually hilarious because then you realize your 0.50 card finished the game and not your $100 other cards. Unless you found a wasteland which trumps said 0.50 card. (Because it is $100.) I don't see duals ever falling to 20 bucks again. Even if SCG stops supporting Legacy entirely (They won't.), Legacy will live on in the manner it did before Legacy Opens. Europe was a hotspot for Legacy and Vintage before SCG even held their power 9 tournaments. You'll see events run by the bigger Lecagy groups, like when Team Meandeck had their opens.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:25
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