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Thanks for all the nice words, folks! Two quick questions as I'm back on the buddies: 1) It occurred to me that the buddies could rack up XP reeeally quick, with twice the opportunities to hack, slash and defy danger, as well as Wisecracking being highly spammable. I'm a bit shy about messing with core mechanics, but would asking for, say, 3 additional XP to level up be much of an unelegant faux pas? 2) Any idea/examples for having a result that's, uh, between a typical 7-9 and 6- results? I've been thinking about something along these lines: So My Kung-Fu Is Superior When you grudgingly accept your buddy’s style has its advantages, you may make a move normally reserved for him. If you do, spend any necessary hold and roll +WIS. On a hit, you manage to pull it off, with a 7-9 result, if applicable. On a 10+, you don’t ???. On a 12+, you actually manage to achieve the 10+ result, if applicable. On a miss, you bungle things up in a really embarrasing manner. The 12+ thing will most probably go to an upgraded move, perhaps with some other minor boon. Now, I'm not sure what sort of extra cost the 7-9 option could have. Simple "pay extra banter" or "take -1" feel really  .[edit] I thought of something along the lines of "you can't use this move again until X; it was lame anyway." [/edit] Bucnasti posted:Why isn't there a Wingman move? Something about one buddy taking on an ugly opponent so the other buddy can focus on the real threat. Mostly because I considered making it an upgrade of a few moves I haven't really done yet. Totally stealing your wording, though! Lichtenstein fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 20:28
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1. How about each buddy getting an exp point for each failed move, but no buddy being allowed to have more than one over the other. That sort of builds in another incentive to the swapping mechanic, but adds more complexity to an already tricky class. 2. I'm not really sure what you're going for. Do you want a move that uses the 10-11 range as a fail?
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Mar 18, 2014 01:01
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New version of The Illusionist is up! All it needs is a couple 6-10 advanced moves to be complete, then I'll transfer it to a playbook format. Any comments on it so far?
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Mar 18, 2014 07:47
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Verr posted:2. I'm not really sure what you're going for. Do you want a move that uses the 10-11 range as a fail? Sorry if it was unclear. I meant something like "your nice 10+ result is like your buddy's 7-9 while your 7-9... Well, it still partially worked, but there's still some small extra catch to make it slightly worse than your buddy's 7-9". It being some extra cost or whatever also makes the passive moves somewhat scale with the roll.
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Mar 18, 2014 11:07
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Lichtenstein posted:Sorry if it was unclear. I meant something like "your nice 10+ result is like your buddy's 7-9 while your 7-9... Well, it still partially worked, but there's still some small extra catch to make it slightly worse than your buddy's 7-9". It being some extra cost or whatever also makes the passive moves somewhat scale with the roll. You get your buddy's 7-9 but the GM also makes a move? Or the classic 'you are put in a spot'?
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Mar 18, 2014 13:22
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Ooooh. That's a really cool idea, really catches the fiction. Yeah, basically use any of the DW or AW narrator "codewords" like, "put in a spot" or "loses their footing." The intro is a shining example of Composition 101 and drills those phrases into you, so just re-read the GM Movelist and you'll be good to go.
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Mar 18, 2014 13:41
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Re: The BuddiesBucnasti posted:Why isn't there a Wingman move? Something about one buddy taking on an ugly opponent so the other buddy can focus on the real threat. Something like this? Wingman (or Take One for the Team) When you take one for the team, don't roll; take an automatic 6- on a move to boost your Buddy's next attempt at the same move: a 6- becomes a 7-9, or 7-9 becomes a 10+ (or 10+ to a 12+ if appropriate).
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Mar 19, 2014 03:07
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Ich posted:Re: The Buddies Kind of gamey in the language. Also an auto boost is something that isn't usually done, usually just numbers are added. Here's a re-word of the same idea: When you take one for the team by throwing yourself in the path of danger or putting yourself in a tight spot, your Buddy's next move gets +2 forward. With a +3 stat that's an auto success, but if it's a roll he's bad at it shouldn't succeed no matter what.
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Mar 19, 2014 03:22
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Wall of advice-seeking text from a GM new to Dungeon World below: I've been GMing Dungeons and Dragons of various editions for the past seven years. I love Dungeon World as a player, but I've only GM'd it once...and it went disastrous, to be honest. It started with a fight of them against a group of cultists, and I am perfectly willing to admit that I handed out damage against my players too much, but even when I used softer moves, they had major misgivings. All my players, coming from D&D, hated the idea of getting punished for attempting actions even on partial successes, and this scared them into hardly attempting anything. In the short and abruptly interrupted dungeon crawl that followed, they also didn't like any traps giving them smaller consequences on a partial success (as opposed to damage and hard moves on failures). One of them claimed that "the only way to win is not to roll", which made me feel like an absolute shitheel. One of the problems is that I had six players, and I was absolutely overwhelmed by all of them clamoring to act in a system without initiative. I'm running the game again with the same players, months later, with them willing to give it another try. I know I made major mistakes, I want to know how I can improve. Part of it was system tendencies, but I'm also sure most of it was my fault. I've outlined the general ghist of the session above, but a complete chatlog (embarrassing as it is) of our online session is here, cut off when events devolve into a universal agreement of "this isn't going so well". (Potty language contained within.) I'll only be running with three players this time, which should help. I talked to one of my players before posting this and they said they would be less demoralized by consequences of partial successes if those consequences were clearly telegraphed; i.e. if one of them goes to punch a guy running at them swinging wildly, they would understand taking a body blow (and thus taking damage or being knocked back) as a consequence of a partial success. Clearly I didn't do so well in that department, but it's a good start. tl;dr Whether or not anyone reads the log, I would appreciate advice on how to utilize partial successes without giving off a sense of punishing the player, and how to encourage the players to act despite the possibility of failure--especially in combat. Unlearning my D&D habits is hard, but I want my players to have fun. The game I'll be running now is a silly game full of over-the-top shonen anime tropes, if that helps.
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Mar 20, 2014 07:12
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Haven't taken a look at the log yet, but I recently ran a game of DW with a bunch of players used to pathfinder and it was a pretty good success. One big thing I want you to do is take another look at the DM moves. Don't always pick the hardest moves. Don't even always punish them for a low roll, unless they did really bad. Consciously pick a move, and try to finish a session having done at least each move once. Instead of "Damage, Damage, Damage" Go "Damage, Opportunity, Put someone in a spot". A 6- doesn't always have to be complete hell, it's just something exciting happening. Also, general *World advice is to start soft, and slowly ramp up to harder moves. Say you have a dragon attack. You begin with warnings of danger. "You hear a reptillian shriek, what do you do?" You ramp things up until "a great beast descends on the party, blasting fire. What do you do?" They will probably DD and if they fail... "you are scorched take (small amount of damage), and you are on fire, what do you do?" Also, most 7-9 moves shouldn't be so bad. On a Hack and Slash you trade damage, but a cultist shouldn't be meaner than a bandit right? That's a straight d6, and the fighter/pally should have like 3 armor. 50% chance for null damage, at most 3 when he has 25 HP. On a Defy Danger the 7-9 is often a null result or a hard bargain. They don't eat damage, but they don't manage to succeed at some kind of daring stunt. Otherwise the 7-9 stuff tends to be positive, just not as positive as a 10+. I think smaller groups are important though. I had 3 players. If it is a larger group, you don't need initiative, but if there's some issue of people all shouting at once, just ask them one at a time in an order that makes sense to you.
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Mar 20, 2014 07:38
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King Cohort posted:Wall of advice-seeking text from a GM new to Dungeon World below: Definitely telegraph likely consequences. When they say they will attempt something make it clear what they are risking. Also if you're playing more action adventure give them opportunities to do crazy stuff, describe chandeliers to swing off, barrels to kick over, things like that. Before the session, discuss with your players how dungeon world rewards strategy that leverages the fiction, instead of the rules. Make your monsters more cowardly and run away when they see a fellow slaughtered. On a 7-9 give them a tough choice between getting what they want and staying safe, so they have more choice on what they want to risk.
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Mar 20, 2014 07:41
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I am recently GMing my first campaign in Dungeon World, and one thing that helped the group I brought over (from D&D and Pathfinder, the min/max-ing, number crunchers), was to really stress that as the GM I wasn't interested in killing the players, but that I was there to help them sort through the rules and to find out what happens. The best advice I got from the DW Rules was for me to "Be a fan of the characters" or however they put it. It does look like you got a little carried away with actually attacking/damaging the characters for partial successes (and it's good you see it), but remember that they are still Successes, and don't be afraid to make hard moves that don't do damage. Instead of getting hit, they suddenly realize that three more goblins have crawled up the ladder and are grinning for blood. The more descriptive you are, the better. Also, one thing that really helped in our first session, was I made sure to give everyone "a chance to shine," and I was trying to end most description with directed questions to control the flow of battle. One thing I've noticed that has helped in the last two sessions, as I am starting to be diligent about saying "Yes, But..." to most questions, the players are getting more and more descriptive with their actions, and they have really been getting involved. As a few people have mentioned already tough choices are great options for 7-9, and sometimes offering them some safe, less effective choice ( You can still hit the Goblin with full force, but you open yourself up, or you can hold back a bit and deal -1d4 damage and protect yourself, etc.) In the end, just remember that everyone wants to have fun! There's no harm in bending the rules or finding some other way to be threatening in the fiction of Dungeon World! 
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Mar 20, 2014 07:59
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Oops double post. Good advice from everyone else!
madadric fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 08:29
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I always try to make the characters' lives more interesting when they roll 7-9, usually by complicating them. For example, I had a player roll an 8 on a Defy Danger roll; he dodged out of the way, but his hand fell upon a cursed sword which chose him as its bearer. His life got much more interesting after that. You can also ask the players what their characters are carrying that's important to them if you want some quick consequences; I've had a paladin lose his holy symbol (a book of complex laws), which he then spent half the fight trying to get back.
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Mar 20, 2014 12:36
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Yea the best tips for new GMs here I can think of is to remember 7-9 rolls aren't 'you succeed not as cool' but more 'you succeed BUT...'. That's what, in my experience, usually keeps the story flowing in a smooth way. At the same time, though, you shouldn't be trying to gently caress them,t he complications should be interesting, not just complicating. Sure for things like hack and slash sometimes you can't do much more than 'you hit but leave yourself open' but be sure to add in things that add interesting options for characters to deal with to keep things fresh.
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Mar 20, 2014 15:02
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I love using 7-9s to tangle players up in enemies, throw them around, make them get weapons wrenched away from them, stuff like that. I really like combat moves that don't always do damage too and generally if I have a player trying to do something cool in combat I'll give em the cool thing but not do any damage to the enemy, or have the enemy counter in a similarity cool way. And it is law at my table that if you're doing a combat move you gotta describe what you're doing or tell me the intent of your move, so I can make a move in response to it. No one just rolls hack and slash and deals damage, that's boring, make them tell you what their character is physically doing.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:31
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Are there any post apocalypse setting themed classes for dungeon world? I'd like to use this over apocalypse world.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:51
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Some of them work well enough in your bog-standard post apocalypse setting; The Cultist, the Slayer, The Metamorph, The Imposter, The Diabolist, The Mastermind, The Necromancer... honestly, any of them can work just fine if you make the fiction right. That's what DW's all about, after all.
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Mar 20, 2014 19:07
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The Survivor from Inverse World is the only playbook I can think of that's explicitly post-apocalyptic, since it's about one of the survivors of a great calamity that destroyed your home. Also because it has moves that are explicit Fist of the North Star and Bastion references. But yeah, Wahad's right. If the setting's post-apocalyptic, any playbooks you choose are going to be post-apocalyptic too. Just make sure the post-apocalypse you're playing in fits with what Dungeon World does mechanically and it should work fine.
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Mar 20, 2014 19:56
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If you are having trouble with all your players trying to jump into action all at once, you'll want to engage them in one-to-one conversations and then switch between each player as the action flows. Avoid things like "The mob of black-robed cultists are charging down the temple steps at the party below, using gravity of the steep slope and spears to bear down on you like a wall of stabbing night. What do you do?" This invites everyone to act all at once. If you address one player at a time, you can control the conversation. "blah-blah, ...wall of stabbing night. Agrast, you had gone a good distance up the steps while reading the carvings on the wall and the cultists are right on top of you! what do you do?" ... Agrast hides behind his shield, rolling defy-danger or even defend. "You hold against your shield as the raving cultists attack, but their numbers threaten to shove you down the stairs. Rodrick, you are right behind Agrast and the man of cloth is barely holding his own and more cultists are pushing around him. What do you do?" ... "meanwhile, Rosin the Bow, you are at the bottom of the steps and hear the battle cries of the Cult of Sanguine above as they clash with your allies, what do you do?" You'll still have players jumping into the conversation, let them! Any thing they want to do can be an Aid roll to the current player. As they learn that they can only assist the current action, they will adjust and either learn to aid, or wait till the can interject.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:49
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Any particularly funny examples of leverage that you've seen used in your games or in playbooks? I recall that the Ogre from a couple of pages ago had a move where they were so ugly that people could always use "the ogre leaving" as leverage. In my current Inverse World game the Collector took the Rival move and we cooked up a bratty kid called Zeke Starslinger as her rival to act as her Gary Oak/Draco Malfoy. I've already decided that Zeke's full first name is Ezekiel and should the group find it out they'd be able to use "Not telling everyone your name" as leverage.
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Mar 21, 2014 11:40
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Thanks to all who gave tips! I'm definitely going to keep in mind prompting players for turns when they're chomping at the bit. I'll also have to make sure that a 7-9 side-effect never makes them regret doing the action in the first place. I'll make believers of my players yet.
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Mar 23, 2014 08:56
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Ratpick posted:Any particularly funny examples of leverage that you've seen used in your games or in playbooks? I recall that the Ogre from a couple of pages ago had a move where they were so ugly that people could always use "the ogre leaving" as leverage. My "good" party of players usually go around convincing people to help them with gems like "That's a nice vase you got there. Would be a drat shame if something... happened to it." or "Have you insured your store against fire? No? That's not very smart, is it? An accident can happen so, so very fast if you're not... Careful."
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Mar 23, 2014 11:17
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I recently GM'ed my first game of dungeonworld with my group of veteran D&D (various editions preference), and it was one of the best RP sessions we've ever had. Basic setup is a roughly dark ages europe with a whole buncha fantasy stuff added. The players sail from their village to raid the snake pit of King Ella and reclaim the shirt of Ragnar Lodbrok. Northumbria here of course being in the grip of a snake cult. Though of course that plan totally falls apart as soon as the dice start rolling. The 7-9 mechanic really kept the pace up and the characters were generally rolling terribly leading them to blunder from one near disaster to another. Notable highlights for 7-9's include: The wizard braining a medusa with the remnants of a golden snake golem, knocking the veil off her head, oops. The fighter trying to twist the head off another medusa while having a staring contest with her succeeding the defy danger rolls to not turn to stone. Finally he rips her head clean off, slamming it into his own and all the little snakes bite into is scalp with their last breath injecting a paralyzing venom. A bit later with the fighter still paralyzed and the medusas head attached to his face the players are dragging him up some stairs when a group of guards come up behind them. The bard announces that he is usign his it goes to eleven to tell a bawdy joke... about dead children. This naturally leads the captain of the guards stabbing his second in command through the ear. Though of course all good will from the medusa princess they ended up rescuing disappears as she says "you monster". A bit later the same guard captain is charging at them sword first, I give the bard the option to jump away and the princess gets hit instead or try and parry the guard. He opts to save his own skin. The wizard then announces he wants to take the hit for the princess shielding her with his own body. Naturally he gets stabbed in the back. The princess looks him in the eyes thanking him with a smile that turns to horror as he turns to stone. The adventure concludes soon after with the party escaping the dungeon with the pedal powered flying machine parked at the top of the tower. Naturally the hydra that has been chasing them up the tower sprays them with snakes, for mandatory snakes on a plane references. The skald is trying to pilot the machine to safe landing spot, but fails. I ask him where he lands instead and he says a forest i push him for more and then we find it's also haunted. End session. Good times were had Lektor fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 12:57
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Does the print copy pop up on Indie Press Revolution from time to time? I bought the pdf from DriveThru RPG, but it's just not the same as having the physical copy. It's a whopping $110 on Amazon.
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Mar 25, 2014 22:51
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I looked into that myself and I think they're going to do another print run soon.
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Mar 25, 2014 22:58
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You might also want to check any local game stores. Mine (Gamescape in SF) still has a copy.
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Mar 25, 2014 23:24
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Who'd be interested in a game of Contrarian Knobend Dungeon World (pp. 23-27) where we roll stats and pick the worst class for our stats and have tons of fun? Edit: What are some small, weak monsters which tend to fight in swarms? Stuff like goblins and kobolds. Bigup DJ fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 07:46
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Bigup DJ posted:Who'd be interested in a game of Contrarian Knobend Dungeon World (pp. 23-27) where we roll stats and pick the worst class for our stats and have tons of fun? Rats? Being swarmed by even normal-sized aggressive rats is pretty dangerous.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:18
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Ducks.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:30
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Very disgruntled house cats.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:53
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Bees. Scale them up to make them angrier and scarier if need to be.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:24
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Intelligent ones with opposable thumbs and language I mean! Like Duergar and Gnolls.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:40
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Bigup DJ posted:Intelligent ones with opposable thumbs and language I mean! Like Duergar and Gnolls. I think you can take any of the previous suggestions and just add opposable thumbs and language. That would be plenty scary!
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Mar 26, 2014 23:54
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Monkeys
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Mar 26, 2014 23:56
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Bigup DJ posted:Edit: What are some small, weak monsters which tend to fight in swarms? Stuff like goblins and kobolds. Geese. No, poo poo, sorry, you said weak.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:59
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Bigup DJ posted:Edit: What are some small, weak monsters which tend to fight in swarms? Stuff like goblins and kobolds. Gnomes, living dolls, babies.
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Mar 27, 2014 01:34
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Bigup DJ posted:Intelligent ones with opposable thumbs and language I mean! Like Duergar and Gnolls. Fine. Giant, talking thumbs.
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Mar 27, 2014 02:42
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In the Ravenous Hordes chapter of the DW rulebook there are rules for ant-people called Formians. Have you checked them out?
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Mar 27, 2014 05:27
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Geese. TRIGGER WARNING THIS poo poo. Geese are the scariest motherfuckers. I got mauled by five of them to the behest of an evil duck that I'm convinced was some kind of fowl demon. I wish I was talking about tabletop. I can't hear a quack without fearing for my life. I'm only half joking here. As for swarms, fairies!
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Mar 27, 2014 09:13
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