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Gridfire takes a few seconds to deploy so its actually too slow to use as an anti-ship weapon. There's a pretty good battle in Excession, I think... one modern ROU versus a fleet of affronter-controlled surplus ROUs.
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Mar 6, 2014 08:05
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Yeah but that's still just a skirmish. Banks wrote some awesome battle scenes. I wish we got one giant one. I know he would say that's not the point but what can I say...it wouuld have been awesome. Edit: The time of gridfire would make it the perfect mine weapon. Gridfire behind them and even if they go out of 3D space they are still dead. The Culture would make the best RTS game ever I swear. Homeworld on LSD Fragmented fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 08:24
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The Culture would make a great setting for pretty much any game. Sim Orbital would be awesome.
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Mar 6, 2014 11:26
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Fragmented posted:Yeah but that's still just a skirmish. Banks wrote some awesome battle scenes. I wish we got one giant one. I know he would say that's not the point but what can I say...it wouuld have been awesome. I never got the impression that there were Trafalgar- style battles with a bunch of ships of the line on either side that banks wasn't showing us. The sides were too asymmetric (especially at first), units too fast, objectives too distributed and volumes too large to be anything other than a guerrilla campaign on a huge scale.
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Mar 6, 2014 14:14
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Casualties Total casualties amounted to 851.4 ± 25.5 (3%) billion sentient creatures, including Medjel (slaves of the Idirans), sentient machines and non-combatants, and wiped out various smaller species, including the Changers. The war resulted in the destruction of 91,215,660 (±200) starships above interplanetary, 14,334 orbitals, 53 planets and major moons, 1 ring and 3 spheres, as well as the significant mass-loss or sequence-position alteration of 6 stars. Granted the war lasted about 50 years but 91,215,660 ships...there had to have been at least one huge gently caress off fight.
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Mar 6, 2014 20:02
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Fragmented posted:Casualties Hey, it's a big galaxy, and by galactic standards, it was more of a skirmish.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:47
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I have a question about the final chapter of Use of Weapons, before the epilogue. This is the chapter in which the protagonist meets Livueta.quote:Skaffen-Amtiskaw, still wondering exactly what was going on in the light of the information it had just received from the ship, still found the time to be mildly surprised that the woman was taking it all so calmly this time. Last time she'd tried to kill the fellow and it had had to move in smartly. Am I missing something, or does the book not actually detail the occasions during which Livueta tracks down Elethiomel and tries to kill him? Is that story detailed in one of the retrospective chapters, and did I just miss it? It just seems really weird to get to this final chapter and to hear about a story in which Livueta tracks down Elethiomel and nearly murders him, only to be frustrated by Skaffen Amtiskaw for the first time. All I could think when I was reading this was "Hang on, what, when did that happen, did I miss something".
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Mar 7, 2014 13:08
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Those On My Left posted:I have a question about the final chapter of Use of Weapons, before the epilogue. This is the chapter in which the protagonist meets Livueta. IIRC (it's been a while since I read UoW), they mention a few times times that this is the second time that Zakalwe has SC track down Livueta as a form of payment. Presumably Skaffen Amtiskaw (but not Sma) was present at the previous meeting, and that it went down less peaceful than this time.
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Mar 7, 2014 14:18
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That was my take too but why wouldn't the drone say what it heard. Maybe she just instantly tried to shoot him and no words had a chance to be spoken? Do I really have to spoiler this?
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Mar 7, 2014 15:29
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Fragmented posted:That was my take too but why wouldn't the drone say what it heard. Maybe she just instantly tried to shoot him and no words had a chance to be spoken? Do I really have to spoiler this? I'm sure words were exchanged but were probably of the 'get out now or I will kill you' variety, probably with some begging from Zakalwe for her to hear him out. She wasn't exactly forthcoming the second time around, and its probably safe to assume she wasn't the first time too. I think more surprising is that no one in the Culture did any of the investigative legwork to figure out what their history was the first time. Although I guess its possible some Mind did, and decided to keep that information to itself.
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Mar 7, 2014 21:25
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Lasting Damage posted:Although I guess its possible some Mind did, and decided to keep that information to itself. It amuses me to think of that interaction as very similar to the arrested development scene where the gym teacher lets tobias direct the school play.
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Mar 7, 2014 21:33
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But none of this stuff actually appears in the book other than as hints and suggestions, right? Like, none of the stories in the retrospective part of the book actually detail this encounter? Is there any indication of the time during which that encounter happens? Now that I think about it, mustn't it happen some time after the whole episode on the beach? IIRC, it's at his meeting with Sma (on the beach) that she tells him she can make the encounter happen. Ok, so the encounter happens some time after that chapter, but before which other chapter? The reason I ask is that I would have expected that encounter to have a significant effect on Zakalwe, but I don't see that in the book.
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Mar 7, 2014 22:37
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Right, its only implied that the first encounter got violent. However, its pretty clear from Sma and Skaffen's reaction to naming another meeting as his price that things went way south. We were just speculating on how it could have gone down. The first meeting seems to happen after the siege on the Winter Palace (chapter XII), and before he assassinates the Ethnarch at the beginning of the book (chapter XIII).
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Mar 7, 2014 23:52
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I'd also think the reasons a lot of things like that are vague is in order to keep the twist as a surprise. Personally, I suspected the twist during one of the earlier chapters featuring both Zak and Eleth simply because the text was so very (seemingly intentionally) ambiguous, referring to "he" and "him" and so on, very unlike everything else written in the book (and previous books). That and "it was him all along!" is not exactly an unheard-of plot point (not that I will hold this against UoW, I love it a lot)
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Mar 8, 2014 00:39
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Lasting Damage posted:Right, its only implied that the first encounter got violent. However, its pretty clear from Sma and Skaffen's reaction to naming another meeting as his price that things went way south. We were just speculating on how it could have gone down. Lasting Damage posted:The first meeting seems to happen after the siege on the Winter Palace (chapter XII), and before he assassinates the Ethnarch at the beginning of the book (chapter XIII).
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Mar 8, 2014 01:54
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So I just finished Use of Weapons
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Mar 17, 2014 04:05
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Xun posted:So I just finished Use of Weapons You alright? Maybe you should sit down in a chair 
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Mar 18, 2014 12:10
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Shall I tell you something that makes you incredibly happy, as a Banks fan? Discovering you hadn't actually read them all. Turns out I thought I'd read Matter but hadn't, and actually mixed it up somehow in my head with one of the others. This makes me far, far more happy than it has any right to, and am devouring it now.
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Mar 18, 2014 13:36
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I have 10 M books and all the non-M books still to go  (I've only read PoG, UoW and SotA, and loved all three... "Scratch" aside.)
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Mar 18, 2014 14:00
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Hedrigall posted:I have 10 M books and all the non-M books still to go You've not even started my favourite two then, in Surface Detail and Look to Windward, which are both truly fantastic. I'm one of the people who loves Excession mostly because the Minds feature so heavily, but it does wander all over the place, narratively.
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Mar 18, 2014 14:15
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I just read Inversions for the first time. What were DeWar and Vosill's points of view that they were trying to prove? I got the impression from the sub-stories that Vosill wanted to prove you could improve a society without being cruel/violent, and DeWar thought it was better to be cruel to be kind. So DeWar was supporting an aggressive expansion-based regime that he felt would improve the societies around it while Vosill was supporting a more relaxed regime that minded its own business. But then Vosill killed a lot of people and didn't seem to give a poo poo about it, and the relaxed regime turned out to be up in everybody's poo poo. Did I misinterpret their argument?
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Mar 18, 2014 14:52
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:I just read Inversions for the first time. What were DeWar and Vosill's points of view that they were trying to prove? I got the impression from the sub-stories that Vosill wanted to prove you could improve a society without being cruel/violent, and DeWar thought it was better to be cruel to be kind. So DeWar was supporting an aggressive expansion-based regime that he felt would improve the societies around it while Vosill was supporting a more relaxed regime that minded its own business. But then Vosill killed a lot of people and didn't seem to give a poo poo about it, and the relaxed regime turned out to be up in everybody's poo poo. Did I misinterpret their argument? You're bang on there that they are the people in DeWar's stories to the young prince. Both of their philosophical positions get a dose of real life, with Vosil killing the torturers and DeWar realising what the King he was defending was capable of. DeWar especially walks away with a 'gently caress this poo poo' attitude.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:00
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Aah, I found it. The exact argument was: Was it better to leave them alone or was it better to try and make life better for them? Even if you decided it was the right thing to do to make life better for them, which way did you do this? Did you say, Come and join us and be like us? Did you say, Give up all your own ways of doing things, the gods that you worship, the beliefs you hold most dear, the traditions that make you who you are? Or do you say, We have decided you should stay roughly as you are and we will treat you like children and give you toys that might make your life better? This fits with the story better because I can clearly see that DeWar was passive and Vosill was actively trying to bring about change.
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Mar 19, 2014 10:07
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Hedrigall posted:I have 10 M books and all the non-M books still to go Banks' non-sci-fi stuff gets discussed comparatively rarely in this thread but some of his best books are his non-genre novels. I think The Crow Road might become one of those yearly-reread books for me.
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Mar 19, 2014 10:45
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Fortunately I still have all of his non-Culture novels to look forward to, except Transition which was okay but obviously not one of his best works.
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Mar 19, 2014 11:01
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Taeke posted:Fortunately I still have all of his non-Culture novels to look forward to, except Transition which was okay but obviously not one of his best works.
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Mar 19, 2014 11:56
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Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Transition quite a lot and it did captivate me, only needing a couple of sessions to finish it because I couldn't put it down. It's been a while since I read it, but I think about halfway through I started to get the feeling like he was rushing through it or something, as if he had this great setting, good characters and an engaging plot but it all had to be cramped in a set amount of pages or he had deadline to reach. I was left with the feeling that if it had been 100 or 200 pages longer he could've done what he had wanted to do. It felt increasingly frustrated towards to end, if that makes any sense.
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Mar 19, 2014 16:07
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Just finished Surface Detail, Loved the character reveal at the end. Made me weirdly happy. Excession is one of my favorites, i think it has to do with how prevalent the minds are in the story. I find that to be the most interesting part of his novels i think. That and his galactic landmarks like the Tsungarial Disk, the Ablate and Shell worlds. Some of those things seem so amazing and interesting, but in a universe where so many civilizations have existed they seem to be almost common place and antique. A Song of Stone, Garbadale and Transition are his non culture books that ive gotten into so far. All were very good. Transition is my favorite out of those.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:16
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If you're a culture fan in general you'd probably enjoy the algebraist, it's similar in content but just has a different setting. Plus the dwellers are very entertaining.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:24
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Regarding Inversions chat; I have no idea why, let alone any ability to articulate it, but for some reason I really like Inversions. Wasn't there an earlier edition of the book that had some manner of preface that more explicitly reveals it as part of the Culture setting?
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Mar 19, 2014 18:45
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andrew smash posted:If you're a culture fan in general you'd probably enjoy the algebraist, it's similar in content but just has a different setting. Plus the dwellers are very entertaining. I forgot to add the Algebraist into that post. Read that this year. Honestly i am a bit surprised at all the love for Use of Weapons. I kind of thought the ending was a bit of a cop out 'gotcha' moment. I loved it up until then though. Ive been trying to find a new copy lately to reread it. No luck so far.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:52
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Wasn't there an earlier edition of the book that had some manner of preface that more explicitly reveals it as part of the Culture setting? This Text, in two Parts, was discovered amongst the Papers of my late Grandfather. One Part concerns the Story of the Bodyguard to the then Protector of Tassasen, one UrLeyn, and is related, it is alleged, by a Person of his Court at the time, while the other, told by my Grandfather, tells the Story of the Woman Vosill, a Royal Physician during the Reign of King Quience, and who may, or may not, have been from the distant Archipelago of Drezen but who was, without Argument, from a different Culture. Like my much esteemed Grandfather, I have taken on the Task of making the Text I inherited more comprehensible and clear, and hope that I have succeeded in this Aim. Nevertheless, it is in a Spirit of the utmost Humility that I present it to the Society and to whoever might see fit to read it.
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Mar 19, 2014 21:29
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andrew smash posted:If you're a culture fan in general you'd probably enjoy the algebraist, it's similar in content but just has a different setting. Plus the dwellers are very entertaining. The Algebraist is probably my least favourite Banks book ever (it's either that or Matter, it's a pretty close call). The Algebraist is hugely bloated and directionless. It just tries to do way too much, and the central narrative isn't nearly compelling enough.
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Mar 19, 2014 22:14
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I think Inversions completely owned, but I think that I might've liked it less if I hadn't already read a few culture books. Being able to read between the lines was the most satisfying part.
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Mar 20, 2014 12:19
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Those On My Left posted:The Algebraist is probably my least favourite Banks book ever (it's either that or Matter, it's a pretty close call). The Algebraist is hugely bloated and directionless. It just tries to do way too much, and the central narrative isn't nearly compelling enough. You have some good points but I still enjoyed the hell out of it. Far from the worst I've read of his (song of stone, ug)
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Mar 20, 2014 18:20
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I still can't believe he's gone. gently caress. Time to read Look to Windward I guess, it and Inversions(?) are the last Culture books left for me. Reading Hydrogen Sonata after he passed was very sad. What a great last book though. Cheers Iain I hope this is all a simulation and you just woke up first.
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Mar 21, 2014 06:28
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Fragmented posted:I still can't believe he's gone. gently caress. Time to read Look to Windward I guess, it and Inversions(?) are the last Culture books left for me. Reading Hydrogen Sonata after he passed was very sad. What a great last book though. Cheers Iain I hope this is all a simulation and you just woke up first. I just finished Look To Windward for the second time. Maybe my favourite Culture book and a great one for you to finish on. Do Inversions first.
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Mar 21, 2014 07:45
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Recommending reading LFW last reminds me, Luke Burrage of SFBRP is doing a series of podcast/reviews on the Culture series, and here's the order he decided is best (it's kind of for an online book club as well, and some members haven't read any of the Culture series while others have):Luke Burrage posted:1. Player of Games. Probably the best introduction to the Culture, laying out Contact and Special Circumstances and all the rest. Viewpoint: normal culture citizen. I've only read PoG, UoW and SotA so far, but I might follow his order for the rest of them. Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Mar 21, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 08:07
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I would disagree on a minor point; I think The Hydrogen Sonata has a note of finality to it that would put it in last place, and that stylistically Look To Windward is one of the middle set, maybe after State of the Art, but definitely not too far after Excession. Although I can see why the last chapter of Windward would make a good series ender.
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Mar 21, 2014 08:41
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Look to windward is referenced in Hydrogen Sonata iirc.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:35
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