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pathetic little tramp posted:Man I wish I knew where this masturbatory love for index funds came from; yeah generally index funds safely rise year after year, but thinking they always go up is just as dumb as thinking anything will always go up. Markets correct themselves and what do you do if you're regarding an index fund as a savings account and the market decides it's time to correct itself when you're 64? Most sensible people love index funds because a well diversified portfolio of them typically beats individually selected stocks on a long enough horizon*, but pretending they don't sometimes (i.e. often) go down in value is insane and Bad With Money. Only an idiot believes they're risk-free or an alternative to a savings account. *Let's not turn this into the long-term savings and retirement thread, though.
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Mar 24, 2014 02:18
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pathetic little tramp posted:Man I wish I knew where this masturbatory love for index funds came from; yeah generally index funds safely rise year after year, but thinking they always go up is just as dumb as thinking anything will always go up. Markets correct themselves and what do you do if you're regarding an index fund as a savings account and the market decides it's time to correct itself when you're 64? The argument isn't that index funds will always go up, it's that they outperform actively-managed funds or individual stocks in the long-run by having very low expense ratios. Hopefully a 64-year old would have investments weighted towards Treasuries and other bond index funds. That would help avoid the short-term volatility you're talking about.
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Mar 24, 2014 02:51
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Cranbe posted:Most sensible people love index funds because a well diversified portfolio of them typically beats individually selected stocks on a long enough horizon*, but pretending they don't sometimes (i.e. often) go down in value is insane and Bad With Money. Only an idiot believes they're risk-free or an alternative to a savings account. Indeed, let's not, and I'm not arguing that index funds are a bad investment, they're a great idea, but I see way too many people who think you just want to pump everything into them all the time and I actually read a book arguing that recently, it was mind-boggling.
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Mar 24, 2014 03:46
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pathetic little tramp posted:Man I wish I knew where this masturbatory love for index funds came from; yeah generally index funds safely rise year after year, but thinking they always go up is just as dumb as thinking anything will always go up. Markets correct themselves and what do you do if you're regarding an index fund as a savings account and the market decides it's time to correct itself when you're 64? pathetic little tramp posted:Indeed, let's not, and I'm not arguing that index funds are a bad investment, they're a great idea, but I see way too many people who think you just want to pump everything into them all the time and I actually read a book arguing that recently, it was mind-boggling. No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 03:49
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No Wave posted:I've seen this post about a hundred times but I've never seen someone actually assert or imply that these funds don't have down years. The big Reddit quote on the last age had somebody pondering why anybody would have cash savings when you can stick the money in index funds—which would only make sense if index funds only went up (and were as liquid as cash). I doubt many people feel that way, but n >= 1.
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Mar 24, 2014 03:53
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Cranbe posted:The big Reddit quote on the last age had somebody pondering why anybody would have cash savings when you can stick the money in index funds—which would only make sense if index funds only went up (and were as liquid as cash). No Wave fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 04:01
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FrozenVent posted:
Yeah, was about to say that. That's some seriously un-self-aware posting right there.
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Mar 24, 2014 07:56
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pathetic little tramp posted:Man I wish I knew where this masturbatory love for index funds came from; yeah generally index funds safely rise year after year, but thinking they always go up is just as dumb as thinking anything will always go up. Markets correct themselves and what do you do if you're regarding an index fund as a savings account and the market decides it's time to correct itself when you're 64? There is a such thing as a Bond Market index fund or a Money Market index fund, you know.
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Mar 24, 2014 08:37
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Ok I know reddit is quote:I live alone in a major US city and I am sick and tired of barely scraping by each month. I know where to cut costs, but need to know the right way of doing it. 25% APR car note on a car he doesn't even use and a rent-to-own bedroom set that's going to end up costing him 4x the original purchase price. He's literally paying 20% of his gross (over 27% of net!) income on an unused car and loving bedroom furniture. Loan-shark interest rate aside, he took on a $400+ car note on 40k/yr and judging by the total lack of financial awareness probably got rear end reamed on the price. Just... how? I'm speechless. I mean, good for him for wising up to how hosed he is and wanting to turn it around, but goddamn it took this long? Guinness fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 09:04
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Guinness posted:Ok I know reddit is You missed the important part quote:pay off my student loans that are in default before they garnish my wages again He sounds like on of those people who never learns. Who the gently caress in their right mind thinks a "rent to own" where you pay over 3x the cost of the goods to even get the point of owning them is a contract they should sign. I mean, just check craiglists for some cheap poo poo. The one saving grace is that his income is barely over his expenses, so he at least might be able to make an effort.
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Mar 24, 2014 11:02
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Who the gently caress needs a goddamn bedroom set when they are single and living in the city? Step 1. Place boxspring directly on floor Step 2. Place mattress on boxspring Step 3. loving done!
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Mar 24, 2014 13:11
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Who the gently caress needs a goddamn bedroom set when they are single and living in the city? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006MK3ORI/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1 No need for a box spring and it lets you keep stuff under your bed (mandatory for me).
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Mar 24, 2014 13:26
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Who the gently caress needs a goddamn bedroom set when they are single and living in the city? Boxspring? Look at this rich motherfucker.
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Mar 24, 2014 13:35
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Who the gently caress needs a goddamn bedroom set when they are single and living in the city? What, seriously? Create a nest out of dirty clothing and towels and sleep in that. If you are in debt you don't deserve a bed.
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Mar 24, 2014 13:57
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No Wave posted:Even better: edit: bringing it back into seriousville: The lumber to build something that would do the same job would cost less, and you could do the job with a hand saw and a hammer and nails in an hour. Even if you have to buy the tools you'll probably come out ahead, and you get to keep the tools.
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Mar 24, 2014 14:02
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tuyop posted:What, seriously? Create a nest out of dirty clothing and towels and sleep in that. If you are in debt you don't deserve a bed. I prefer the idea of them having to make a bed/mattress out of bills and debt collection notices. It works symbolically on several levels.
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Mar 24, 2014 14:04
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VideoTapir posted:edit: bringing it back into seriousville: I'd love for you to price that out, including renting a vehicle to transport the lumber in since a sedan won't do it. I've always had a thought of building myself furniture, and then I realize how expensive raw materials are in parts of the country that aren't timber country. For reference, we actually have one of these frames, and they do a nice job. It folds in on itself for storage as well, so you can use it as a guest bed with a folding-mat if you decide to get a new size of bed.
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Mar 24, 2014 14:19
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Volmarias posted:I'd love for you to price that out, including renting a vehicle to transport the lumber in since a sedan won't do it. I've always had a thought of building myself furniture, and then I realize how expensive raw materials are in parts of the country that aren't timber country. You can get a surprising amount of lumber in a sedan if you put the seats down and leave it sticking out the back. You have to tie it down so it doesn't fly out the back and drive really carefully, but it can be done.
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Mar 24, 2014 14:37
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That thing could be built from like 15-20 2x4 studs. Some screws, a drill, and a saw... That'd be decently cheap, even cheaper if you could borrow skillsaw and power drill with some bits.
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Mar 24, 2014 14:45
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Spermy Smurf posted:That thing could be built from like 15-20 2x4 studs. Some screws, a drill, and a saw... That'd be decently cheap, even cheaper if you could borrow skillsaw and power drill with some bits. Your going to need/want 4x4 posts for the legs, 2x6 for the structural sides, if you have a queen bed you need a center support, some slats to distribute load (1x4 will probably due), and bolts not screws since you probably will want to keep it and be able to move it. My brother has made a bed frame like this, I will see if he remembers the cost (he had all the tools and a truck).
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Mar 24, 2014 15:41
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spwrozek posted:Your going to need/want 4x4 posts for the legs, 2x6 for the structural sides, if you have a queen bed you need a center support, some slats to distribute load (1x4 will probably due), and bolts not screws since you probably will want to keep it and be able to move it. My dad built a bed exactly like this with drawers and stuff. I think he said the cost was <$80 because he had all the drawer furniture and hardware already. But he's a partner at an architectural firm and builds bunkhouses and house additions solo all the time, so the average person will probably have a lot more waste and a lot more of a time commitment.
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Mar 24, 2014 15:50
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No Wave posted:Even better: I have that and it kicks rear end. Plus it comes apart and folds flat so when you move, it's not a giant pain in the rear end like a normal box spring. I also bought it because it's not squeaky at all. gently caress sleeping on anything made of wood.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:20
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What the gently caress, these things cost $30 (or usually free with purchase of matress), are we really talking about a lay person building one and SAVING money? I mean, I'm pretty loving cheap, I bought my matress at a flea market, but I still bought the $30 support rails.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:22
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Spermy Smurf posted:That thing could be built from like 15-20 2x4 studs. Some screws, a drill, and a saw... That'd be decently cheap, even cheaper if you could borrow skillsaw and power drill with some bits. Asking someone to learn construction skills to save some money on a bed is kind of ridiculous. Even if the materials and tools are 100% free (not happening), and you assign a worth of $0 to your own labor, it's still a big time investment to learn to build something that will sit level, won't collapse when you lie down on it, and won't frighten others who come into your bedroom. Also, 2x4s are framing material. If you want to build furniture out of cheap wood there are less expensive and better looking options. The appropriate thing to do in this case would be to take a single one of those $200 monthly payments, and go to Ikea to buy a cheap but serviceable bed, just like every other college/just-out-of-college age person in the first world.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:30
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VideoTapir posted:edit: bringing it back into seriousville: The whole DIY thing is cool but there's a decent amount of embedded intelligence in successful products. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel every time because over time it's a net loser (I've tried). If I owned a house in the 'burbs with a toolshed and wanted to make it a hobby, fine, I can see the value in that, but for a young-ish programmer living in an apartment in Boston? No way.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:45
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Volmarias posted:I'd love for you to price that out, including renting a vehicle to transport the lumber in since a sedan won't do it. I've always had a thought of building myself furniture, and then I realize how expensive raw materials are in parts of the country that aren't timber country. I loved the ease of transportation and storage it afforded me, but i couldn't stand the noise from moving around, let alone other activities... Edit: Razz confirmed no noise. Win. Will be getting another once my gf and I have a guest room again vs my home office. SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 17:29
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Mr.Radar posted:More reddit, this time from the comments on a story in the economics subreddit about how many middle class families have no cash savings even though they have other assets: quote:quote: Boy do I feel dumb for have 25K in my savings for any emergencies and or home improvements.
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Mar 24, 2014 17:49
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Once you get to a certain asset level you don't really need a lot of cash sitting around if you don't have high debt levels. Just another reason why the rich get richer.
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Mar 24, 2014 17:53
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SiGmA_X posted:I had one from Costco and it squeaked HORRIDLY. Is the Amazon one better?
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Mar 24, 2014 17:53
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Yeah, it isn't really that different if you're just talking transaction costs. Enough cash for "markets are closed and I need money today, not tomorrow" sort of emergencies is probably enough. The smug indignation of "saving is a poor person thing" is still funny but actually holding cash doesn't seem all that useful. That's why it's called an emergency fund, and for me it is a fixed amount, not proportional to my amount saved.
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Mar 24, 2014 17:56
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ranbo das posted:You can get a surprising amount of lumber in a sedan if you put the seats down and leave it sticking out the back. You have to tie it down so it doesn't fly out the back and drive really carefully, but it can be done. I actually managed to make a whole 6 shelf flat file art holder for my work in progress by having home depot cut all the wood and we managed to fit everything inside an older bmw 325. It's amazing what twine and bungie cord can do. Just don't drive on the freeway~
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Mar 24, 2014 17:58
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Saving in an index fund is still saving. The problem with most households isn't the asset allocation of their savings, but the fact that they aren't even doing it. Saying because you have good insurance and a steady paycheck right now is an excuse for savings is pretty short-sighted, since you're essentially one pink slip away from losing both of those things. Also it's pretty LOL that people still view homes as ATMs. Essentially it boils down to "Why save, when I can go into debt."
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Mar 24, 2014 18:08
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Coworker on buying a house: "It sucks that I can't qualify for a low income home. Why would anyone who is low income want a 3 story loft condo anyway. It's ridiculous you couldn't even have a kid in there. Also with my income I'd have to have at least 5 kids to be able to qualify, for a condo!" So like I explained to her repeatedly there's no loving way you're getting a house without a 20% downpayment nowaday, nor is it responsible to even go about it that way. Sounds like her friend understands this too because... "Yeah so I was bummed out about not being able to get the house, so my friend brought up that we should make a joint account for you and contribute money into it. I thought it was for a vacation and I'm like ohh yeah that's a great idea, but instead she wanted to give me 10 grand for a down payment. No way I could take that. I was insulted by it overall!" So yeah, can't afford the house, makes too much to get home assistance, and refuses help from friends when trying to get a home. Well played all around. Edit: OK so you can get a house without the 20% downpayment. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have 20% especially when the houses are under 150k Veskit fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 18:10
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Generally, saving implies putting part of your paycheck in cash. Investing would be used when putting money in index funds.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:13
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Veskit posted:So like I explained to her repeatedly there's no loving way you're getting a house without a 20% downpayment nowaday, nor is it responsible to even go about it that way. Sounds like her friend undersstands this too because... This is not true at all. Myself and 10 of my friends (25-30) bought houses the last two years and we all out 5% down and have sub 4% interest
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Mar 24, 2014 18:18
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spwrozek posted:This is not true at all. Myself and 10 of my friends (25-30) bought houses the last two years and we all out 5% down and have sub 4% interest
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Mar 24, 2014 18:24
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Can you link the thread? I will tonight
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Mar 24, 2014 18:31
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spwrozek posted:This is not true at all. Myself and 10 of my friends (25-30) bought houses the last two years and we all out 5% down and have sub 4% interest I love when people post judging how others are bad with money and are objectively wrong. Spwrozek's situation isn't anecdotal at all either. Just look at FHA loan numbers. They would be near 0 if no one got sub 20% down loans.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:32
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Bloody Queef posted:Spwrozek's situation isn't anecdotal at all either. Just look at FHA loan numbers. They would be near 0 if no one got sub 20% down loans. Yeah but the tradeoff there is that at only 5% down you're throwing away money on PMI for the life of an FHA loan. Yeah you can refi to a standard mortgage later, but you'll likely still have to achieve 20%+ equity for that and in the meantime you're still pissing away money.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:40
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Guinness posted:Yeah but the tradeoff there is that at only 5% down you're throwing away money on PMI for the life of an FHA loan. Yeah you can refi to a standard mortgage later, but you'll likely still have to achieve 20%+ equity for that and in the meantime you're still pissing away money. 5% conventional loan guys come on... The lender paid PMI was ~1500 up front. Done and done.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:42
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