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Fetterkey posted:The Z-95 seems likely to be a lot worse than a TIE, given its inferior resilience and presumably inferior dial. Is there some element that I'm missing that makes it strong? From what I can tell it's got a few benefits, namely- -Gives the Rebels a cheap garbage fighter that can be used to fill out lists. -Can carry missles. -Has one more HP than TIE fighters, and two of its HP are shields. -Can use Target Lock, which is pretty nice. -Lowest pilot has 1 more PS than lowest TIE pilot. So, while they're individually less resilient than TIEs, and Headhunter Swarm would almost assuredly lose to TIE Swarm, they're still nice in that they can allow Rebel lists to bring two or even three more cheap fighters whereas before they'd be stuck with one or two to fill out a list. Keep in mind that prior to the Headhunter, the cheapest Rebel fighter was the A-Wing, which came in 17 points, which means that for the cost of 2 A-Wings (34 points), for only two more points I can bring 3 Headhunters, which is going to be huge for Rebel lists.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:40
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Cheap, Rebel, and can take a missile to help against swarms I think. Rebels cheapest fighter previous was actually pretty pricey, these are the same cost as a basic TIE.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:41
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It'll be interesting to see if that's worth it. I expect the Lt. Blount + Assault Missile combo to be very prevalent, but am not confident that we'll see much of the Z-95 aside from that; my impression is that missiles and torps are systematically overpriced for "normal" pilots given the need to spend a Target Lock to fire them. That said, I haven't really seen a list focused on cheap missile platforms before-- it's entirely possible that this ends up looking quite lethal. I'm quite interested in seeing where the game heads with the next wave!
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Mar 24, 2014 19:15
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Fetterkey posted:That said, I haven't really seen a list focused on cheap missile platforms before-- it's entirely possible that this ends up looking quite lethal. I'm quite interested in seeing where the game heads with the next wave! Closest that I think you could get right now is something like 4x Green w/Deadeye and a mix of Cluster and Assault missiles. Don't really see that being much more than a one trick pony, but there was a guy (perhaps mentioned a few pages back) who ran a 4-5 ship A-Wing swarm. Don't think he gave more than 1 or 2 missiles though. On the Imperial side, I've seen people fly the Bomber swarm with a mix of missiles and torpedoes- not bad, but once you've had your alpha strike, you've got to figure out a way to make the naked Bombers work. Can be great against low ship count lists, but struggles against anything else.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:45
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Two of the guys I play with just can't shut up about how a six z95 list with missiles will break the game, it's all I've been hearing since the spoiler of the cards a few weeks ago, and it's getting really old.
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Mar 24, 2014 20:36
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Devlan Mud posted:Two of the guys I play with just can't shut up about how a six z95 list with missiles will break the game, it's all I've been hearing since the spoiler of the cards a few weeks ago, and it's getting really old. Remind them that not too long ago people preordered 4x Shuttles because it had the same base cost as the X-Wing, the same primary attack, double the HP, and only seemed to give up a single defense die for all this. They ended up with enough Advanced Sensors for a flight of B-Wings, so it wasn't a complete loss.
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Mar 24, 2014 20:55
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Poopy Palpy posted:Remind them that not too long ago people preordered 4x Shuttles because it had the same base cost as the X-Wing, the same primary attack, double the HP, and only seemed to give up a single defense die for all this. Yeah, its really difficult to figure out what is really going to work in practice. Now that the dial is out, people will start using it with vassal but that still never seems to translate perfectly into the real world.
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Mar 24, 2014 21:00
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Is it me, or does Wingman seem awesome? I get images of mad barrel rolling YT-1300s with Expert Handling and a Wingman supporting ship. Swear to god I'm getting back into this game when I finally get paid. e: I like theorycrafting and I was looking at how to minimize my financial investment for maximum fun on the table. I currently own the YT-1300, so I was thinking that I could just pick up the Rebel Aces pack when it's released and run this: 23 points Jake Farrell Chardaan Refit, Veteran Instincts 35 points Keyan Farlander Advanced Sensors, Push the Limit 42 points Chewbacca I was also thinking of picking up Imperial Aces so I'd have an imperial side, so that'd have PtL in it. Seem reasonable? Corbeau fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 23:13
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I'm refreshing my all TIE Interceptor list, and I have 28 points to spend and I am decided whether I want Carnor Jax ~or~ Tetran Cowall. I'd probably run Carnor Jax with something like Swarm tactics and run all my TIEs in a controlled but slightly chaotic fashion, or Cowall with Veteran Instincts so he can K-Turn and get the first shot off. Whoever I run will drastically alter how I run the supporting 4x Alpha Squadron Pilots, if I run Jax then the Alphas will follow him in order to benefit from his ability. If I use Cowall then the ASPs will form a wall and charge in, leaving Cowall to pick off damaged ships.
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Mar 25, 2014 07:34
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Turr + PTL is a perfect 28.
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Mar 25, 2014 07:37
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That's option 3, and the worst part is that's my Interceptor-only Alpha Squadron v1. It's pretty hard to beat Turr with Push the Limit, I've had really good results with him. I've been musing shaking uo the tried and true formula, I also run Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics with 4x Avenger Squadron Pilots. I think that Imperial Aces is cool but I'm still finding that the existing pilots provide more/better opportunities.
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Mar 25, 2014 07:50
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I never liked how luck based so the named interceptor pilots are. Things always seem to go really well or crumble by like turn 3 based on your dice. I still think Saber squadron pilots are the best interceptors hands down. PS4 and they let you take more ships so you arnt done after one unlucky dice roll. Get a few sabers with draw their fire or swarm tactics with a few alphas and howlrunner. Vicious list that isnt so luck based.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:08
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I've actually found the named Interceptor pilots to be the opposite of luck-based as the majority of their success comes from skillfully maneuvering out of enemy arcs of sight. I typically run Soontir Fel with PTL + SD and Turr Phennir with Veteran Instincts + SD and the real key to winning for me is just to assure that they are almost never getting shot at. Of course if you do get shot there is that chance of coming up with a handful of blanks, but I think that's a problem for most of the high agility, low hit point Empire ships and a big advantage for the Rebels with their low agility, high hit points ships.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:29
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smashthedean posted:I've actually found the named Interceptor pilots to be the opposite of luck-based as the majority of their success comes from skillfully maneuvering out of enemy arcs of sight. I typically run Soontir Fel with PTL + SD and Turr Phennir with Veteran Instincts + SD and the real key to winning for me is just to assure that they are almost never getting shot at. Interceptor skillfully maneuvering only really works versus people that dont understand whats going to happen and dont know how to prevent it. The main reason interceptor's arnt part of the meta isn't because they are hard to fly, its because they are hugely inconsistent and in a game all about consistency.
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Mar 25, 2014 21:11
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And generally speaking, YT-1300's and Y-Wings with Ion Cannon Turrets pretty much wreck them because firing arcs have less meaning. I relish facing X-Wings, A-Wings or B-Wings with TIE Interceptors because I find I can stay alive long enough to put myself in a winning position.
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Mar 26, 2014 00:04
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So there is a store tournament coming up and there are only two lists I can think of that I like, I'd like some opinions if it's possible. Avenger Squadron Pilot-20 Avenger Squadron Pilot-20 Avenger Squadron Pilot-20 Avenger Squadron Pilot-20 Howlrunner (Swarm Tactics)-20 Total 100 points Or Gold Squadron Y-Wing (Ion Turret)-23 Gold Squadron Y-Wing (Ion Turret)-23 Blue Squadron B-Wing (Ion Cannon, Fire Control)-27 Blue Squadron B-Wing (Ion Cannon, Fire Control)-27 Total 100 points Two really different lists, but I love fast ships and I love Ion Cannons.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:12
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TheKingslayer posted:So there is a store tournament coming up and there are only two lists I can think of that I like, I'd like some opinions if it's possible. I use the Interceptor list a fair bit, and it sucks to use it against anything with a Falcon in it. It's pretty much a point and click list and I find shooting before Rookie X-Wings/Blue B-Wings/Gold Y-Wings to be an advantage, as if you can concentrate firepower it'll melt anything with 2 agility. It is very glass cannon and you need to basically be extremely careful with how you fly, it's not forgiving and not a consistent performer.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:17
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I won a store champ with the ion list. With the number of B-Wings that people are flying, ion cannons are really strong in my local meta. Just have to survive long enough to get behind them and it's over.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:26
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pbpancho posted:I won a store champ with the ion list. With the number of B-Wings that people are flying, ion cannons are really strong in my local meta. Just have to survive long enough to get behind them and it's over. Do you tend to fly as a close group or a little more loose? B-Wings have become a problem in my area and this might be my answer.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:30
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How do you all handle forgetting to take an action? My first match in the tournament, both my opponent and I constantly forgot to take actions, and we just sighed and said it was too late. However, later on I saw other players allowing actions to be taken, and in another match of mine we agreed that if we forgot to take an action, then by default the ship was focusing. That was nice, but it got confusing when ships started colliding into things and not having a focus token on them just because they couldn't have taken an action. We were careful, but it's possible to forget which ships bumped into things and which ships just forgot to focus.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:35
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In a tournament, I personally ask for no mercy. If I forget, I forget. Same for my opponent. Only because I don't want to feel burned if my kindness gets taken advantage of if I let them go back and they don't let me. I've seen it happen a few times and it's pretty lovely.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:43
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I dont like Avengers. An extra 2 PS gets you very very little over a cheaper Alpha. If you're going to joust with a Howl led Int squad (which I dont suggest in a world with B-wings) you might as well go full Sabers with PTL to turtle with focus/evade.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:44
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TheKingslayer posted:Do you tend to fly as a close group or a little more loose? B-Wings have become a problem in my area and this might be my answer. I flew them together, Ys in front. The Ys would take the first hits then sprint behind the enemy and be out of arc while the Bs soaked a round of firing, then I was behind them and it was just a matter of time. Against the swarm I played I killed Howl on the 2nd round of combat, after smoking an academy round one when he was only in range with 2 ships. It was all downhill from there.
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Mar 26, 2014 06:01
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Is Vader good?
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Mar 26, 2014 16:32
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Fetterkey posted:Is Vader good? Sort of. I think he's too expensive for what he does (which is have 2 attack dice). His pilot ability is really good, but he's pretty limited by his crappy ship and I feel there a lot of better ways to spend the points.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:03
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Advanced Cloaking Device appears to have been spoiled- https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=644528918951834&id=402893733115355&substory_index=0
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Mar 26, 2014 19:40
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Fetterkey posted:Is Vader good?
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Mar 26, 2014 19:56
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Lunatic Pathos posted:So far its been pretty well balanced. Like anything, there are good tournament builds and bad ones, but the balance is still far better than most games. As for power creep, the first three sets are well balanced. When wave 4 comes out, that might change, as it seems to have ships that are superior to current ones, but it also seems like they might have fair points costs that doesn't make them strictly better to include in a list, especially since so far quantity seems slightly better than quality in this game. The World Championship winners have been 6-7 ships for Imperials and 4-5 ships for Rebels, esp if you count the large ships as two. For wave 1 and 2, imperials were slightly dominant. In wave 3, rebels are slightly ahead, but its not heavily in favor of either and the upcoming stuff looks to keep it that way. On the official forums there's been some whining about rebels getting too much love in the upcoming Rebel Aces compared to the just released Imperial Aces, but Wave 4 looks more exciting for Imps. I'm looking at getting into this game and this post answered most of my questions, so thank you. I'd like to be clear on the last point. I'm thinking that I'd like to play Rebels. If I understand correctly to ensure I have all the possible upgrade cards I'd need to also buy the Imperial ships, is that correct? Also, are the A-Wings any good? They're probably my favorite ship.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:33
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S.W.O.R.D. Agent posted:Also, are the A-Wings any good? They're probably my favorite ship.  I'm in the same boat. From what I've been reading though, 2 attack dice is a severe - almost crippling - drawback. TIE Swarm only gets away with it because TIE Fighters are dirt cheap and get buffed by Howlrunner. A-Wings qualify for neither of those.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:44
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Corbeau posted:
The Rebel Aces pack coming out at the end of the year is going to be providing a big boost to A-Wings with a card that lowers their cost by 2 if they don't equip a missile and a card that lets them take two Elite Pilot Talents, which should lead to some interesting combinations. They also are getting a pretty boss pilot with that box. Check out the preview on FFG's website.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:49
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Corbeau posted:
A-Wings can get the same benefit from Biggs that TIEs realistically get from Howlrunner, and their cost is about to go down by two! Is 3 points and losing the Barrel Roll action too much to pay in exchange for upgrading one of your hull points to a shield, an extra shield, and access to Target Locks and Boosts? Probably, yeah. But it might be a near thing!
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Mar 26, 2014 22:53
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When you could run a Z-95 plus missiles instead of an A-Wing, I'm not optimistic for the latter's chances.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:59
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They fill pretty different roles though so its entirely dependent on what you want your list to do.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:01
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zVxTeflon posted:They fill pretty different roles though so its entirely dependent on what you want your list to do. I suppose that's true. I can't help but feel like bringing some cheap assault missiles is just going to be fantastic against anything approximating a swarm, and the opportunity cost won't be that high.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:13
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The only time I've seen Assault Missiles work as well as I wanted them to was when I took a TIE Bomber list and fired everything at a Falcon. The splash damage took both A-Wing escorts down to 1 hull, and was finished off by bombs. I would be very interested to see Assault Missiles take on a swarm, because exactly the same thing was predicted for wave 2 and nothing came of it. Hilariously I think rear end Missiles work best for taking out large ships and whatever is flying near them because the base is so large and usually the larger ships have 1 or 2 agility.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:24
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Corbeau posted:I suppose that's true. I can't help but feel like bringing some cheap assault missiles is just going to be fantastic against anything approximating a swarm, and the opportunity cost won't be that high. I suspect Lt. Blount with Assault Missiles will be very common but that normal Z-95s with Assault Missiles will be less than hugely relevant. Low PS on a vulnerable ship means they could very well die before firing.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:39
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Leo Showers posted:The only time I've seen Assault Missiles work as well as I wanted them to was when I took a TIE Bomber list and fired everything at a Falcon. The splash damage took both A-Wing escorts down to 1 hull, and was finished off by bombs. The difference is that they're cheap. An A-Wing with Assault Missiles costs at least 22 points; a Z-95 with Assault Missiles costs 17 and has a bonus piloting skill in the bargain. I don't know why I'm arguing though; I haven't played since Wave 1.  e: Wait. Stop. I just realized that with two elite piloting skills, you could run a pair of A-Wings with PtL plus Wingman. That would be hilarious. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 23:39
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New players, here's the thing. The distinction being made about what's good or not are with respect to tournament play. The imbalances are not large enough to matter much casually, and several sips that aren't great for tournaments are in that category because they are high risk, high reward, like the interceptor. A-Wings can be hard to kill but don't put out enough damage for time limited games. If you're playing casual, there are no bad ships, with the possible exception of non-Vader Advanced. You will not fail to have fun because you are flying some A-Wings. edit: regarding upgrades. I don't know exactly. You will probably need to get at least a few imp ships for cards. There is some crossover though, and it depends what you want. I'd recommend just looking up what cards come with what. You can probably eschew some stuff. Lunatic Pathos fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 23:46
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I have a tournament coming up on Saturday and I'm debating between two lists: [33] Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device [29] Turr Phennir + Veteran Instincts + Stealth Device [22] Gamma Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missiles [16] Backstabber or [33] Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device [19] Howlrunner + Determination [12] Academy Pilot [12] Academy Pilot [12] Academy Pilot [12] Academy Pilot I think the swarm list is more competitive, but I like playing the first list a little more. I haven't lost a game with either list yet, but I fear going up against Falcons with the first list (though I could switch the Concussions for Clusters maybe?). What do you goons think?
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Mar 27, 2014 00:00
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Lunatic Pathos posted:New players, here's the thing. The distinction being made about what's good or not are with respect to tournament play. The imbalances are not large enough to matter much casually, and several sips that aren't great for tournaments are in that category because they are high risk, high reward, like the interceptor. A-Wings can be hard to kill but don't put out enough damage for time limited games. If you're playing casual, there are no bad ships, with the possible exception of non-Vader Advanced. You will not fail to have fun because you are flying some A-Wings. My girlfriend uses A-Wings all the time and they really are pretty good, flown correctly. She correctly guessed that Green Squadron Pilots with Push the Limit was the way to run them, and she only plays casually and has no interest in the community. She also figured out Han Shoots First when Wave 2 dropped, and ran the 2x X-W 2x B-W when she got hold of a few B-Wings. I am pretty confident she'll want to be using the Rebel Aces pack, that's for sure.
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Mar 27, 2014 00:07
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