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GoutPatrol posted:Nothing stopping them from reprinting Thalia in supplementary products, where they do put in legendary cards, or the inevitable Modern Masters 2. And on top of that, a $5 rare that will eventually be an $8 or $10 rare is the perfect candidate for getting reprinted in a supplementary product. It's probably more likely to get reprinted than the actual high cost money cards are.
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Mar 24, 2014 21:42
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Man how many of you guys hating on U/W in current standard played against Jund in Ala-Zen standard? Rev doesn't actually put things on the board or kill creatures, unlike Bit Blast (into Bloodbraid Elf) into Maelstrom Pulse / Terminate / Blightning / Thrinax / Bolt. The only thing you could do was hope they didn't just win the game off of 2-3 good cascades. The thing was, even with Cascade as an autopilot mechanic - that deck wasn't easy to play at tournament level. Back then we tested extensively Jund matchups and I started off piloting the list really poorly because I wasn't nickle and diming every cascade properly (casting bolts before elves and dumb stuff like that). Because Spread'em became mildly known as a hate deck, playing lands in the proper order became a relevant concern. I truly believe there aren't any actually easy decks to play in magic. Except All-in decks in legacy, and even then, proper mulligans and proper sequencing are important.
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Mar 24, 2014 21:52
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All this speculation talk made me actually visit /r/mtgfinance. The valiant defenders of speculators and buy-outs is amazing. Now I remember why I don't visit reddit - can't really imagine any of these guys without a fedora. I'll take our fat, greasy gooniness together any day. Also, why do people in wizard land call price surges "price corrections?" From what I know, technical/price/market corrections are always drops in stocks or securities. They're temporary so that part fits but  jhorphear posted:Ok, lets see if this works, here is that altered image card I mentioned earlier Nice! Could use an r and a few more veins though. One of the things I prize about my land tax is that the artist used thick enough paint such that you can actually feel the texture of the balls. 
Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 21:54
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Zoness posted:Man how many of you guys hating on U/W in current standard played against Jund in Ala-Zen standard? Rev doesn't actually put things on the board or kill creatures, unlike Bit Blast (into Bloodbraid Elf) into Maelstrom Pulse / Terminate / Blightning / Thrinax / Bolt. A lot of players hate control......I don't get it, for me blue based control decks are the best decks to play with, and the most fun to play against. However, some people are babies when it comes to Sphinx's Rev, or Wrath's or counter magic. So they start wailing about how its braindead, or overpowered, but the number of quick decisions one has to make to A) not lose with a control deck and B) win fast enough to stay out of the draw bracket says otherwise to me. I'm not someone who is going to call aggro decks mindless, well other than boggles and hexproof, but it does take skill to pilot a aggro deck expertly, just as it does to pilot a Rev deck.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:00
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Zoness posted:Except All-in decks in legacy, and even then, proper mulligans and proper sequencing are important. Outside of Belcher, what do you mean by this?
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Mar 24, 2014 22:12
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I think some people are a bit tired of seeing Sphinx's Revelation and are equating that with an entire archetype. Yeah, it's a bit dull that we're in yet another year or so of UW being the de-facto control colors, but it'll by the end of the year so a bit of patience can go a long way. Me, I'm just curious to know exactly what color combos have never been used in control decks. I can't think of a single RG control deck, or a viable GW one either. Hell, I can't think of many control decks that run/ran green period, save for those seasons with really amazing color fixing.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:15
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Veyrall posted:I can't think of a single RG control deck, or a viable GW one either RG - Wolf Run Ramp, RG Tron GW - Enchantress e: Oh, you mean standard. Well, Wolf Run still stands
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Mar 24, 2014 22:23
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AgentSythe posted:RG - Wolf Run Ramp, RG Tron Those are not control decks.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:26
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Any recommendations on software to keep track of your inventory of cards? Searching reveals a lot of different options, like http://deckbox.org/ and http://www.slightlymagic.net/wiki/Magic_Album but it's hard to pick one.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:28
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It (Wolf Run) controlled the board then played a threat that went over-the-top of every thing else, just like ye olden The Deck intended it. Is it because it accelerates to the late game that it isn't "control?"
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Mar 24, 2014 22:28
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Veyrall posted:Hell, I can't think of many control decks that run/ran green period, save for those seasons with really amazing color fixing. Ghazi-Glare probably counts. Also LSV's Chord Control deck with Arcanus that he won Nationals With some years back. Also Wake. 5CC also counts as control in any colors, but it's more of the exception rather than the rule. Ghazi-Glare is probably the main G/W control list, but I think Eternal Slide counts too. Zoness fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 22:30
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Considering like 80% of Standard control staples are rotating out with RTR, I'm guessing the deck archetype could be dead unless Journey into Nyx or the next block's first brings in a lot of equivalent replacements.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:30
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I'm not super bothered by UW stuff anymore because it's just so commonplace that you have to get over it, but for me personally it's mostly a mental thing. Control has that weird effect of making you feel like you're not really getting to play; that's obviously not true, but it's more annoying to get something countered or bounced or whatever instead of dying in a combat trade or something similar. Sure, you opted to use that mana on a spell instead of a creature, and they net effect is the same. You did a one for one either way, but one just feels a little less satisfying. The problem with UW is that it gives a strong sense of oppressiveness. Not in the macro sense that it dominates the format, but in the micro sense of every game against it feels like you're bashing your head against a wall that's steadily getting more sturdy. You know crap is going to get bounced and countered in the first few turns, you know a Verdict is going to hit turn four or any subsequent turn once your board presence is strong enough, you know that they're going to maintain a huge card advantage with even modestly paid Sphinxes, and you know when that Aetherling hits you're hosed so let's go to game two so I can sideboard Pithing Needle. It's methodical, it's based on denial, and it usually drags on well beyond the point where you're 99% sure you've lost the game and goes to time every round. It's a similar situation with Fog based decks, but they're nowhere near as prominent so it's easier to laugh at the situations that those create. The thing is talking about "feel" is insubstantial bullshit, and using just a little bit of objective logic tells you it's just as valid and fair as anything else. The presence of the archetype doesn't upset me, but I just don't like playing against it. It's not fun or challenging, but for a lot of people it's almost like a security blanket type deck at this point. It's tired, and I wouldn't miss it if it was gone. Gumdrop Larry fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 22:32
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AgentSythe posted:It (Wolf Run) controlled the board then played a threat that went over-the-top of every thing else, just like ye olden The Deck intended it. Is it because it accelerates to the late game that it isn't "control?" It's not control because it doesn't control anything. It just kills you. That's kind of like control, except the opposite. Seriously, ramp is not control. Ramp is much more similar to combo than control, in that it's trying to accelerate into a board state or game position that the opponent is unable or unlikely to be able to contend with.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:32
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Gumdrop Larry posted:It's methodical, it's based on denial, and it usually drags on well beyond the point where you're 99% sure you've lost the game and goes to time every round. I have never gone to time playing U/W control - not even in the mirror. There are certainly a lot of decisions to make but this is more of a players not using time properly. Part of this is in my chess background - where I'm used to thinking of the play on my opponent's turn/priority. I've had an opponent playing R/B scoop to me when I had board control in the interest of his saving time but the match ended with 20 minutes left in the round anyway. I'm not saying that I'm a great pilot of U/W because I make a lot of dumb mistakes too but I've seen people play more loosely and more slowly with the list - but I wouldn't say the deck itself leads to going to time. Really, the current iteration of U/W control is one of the faster control decks that have existed across magic formats over the last 10 years. Zoness fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 22:35
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Madmarker posted:A lot of players hate control......I don't get it, For me at least, it's my propensity to have janky weird bad decks (first deck was budget G/W humans in INN stnadard, have Goats and Gates built right now) and that, when I was a new player, Control felt much more painful to lose against. With a deck that's more concerned about having a bigger board state, you feel like you're racing and you have some of the same tools because most removal is $1-2 rare or cheaper, and there's usually some jank creatures and maybe a decent one or two you pulled from packs. Dealing with a counter-heavy control as a newer player feels pretty awful when your deck already isn't great. Also it doesn't help that the one guy I play with the most is a career esper player. When we started playing he basically had esper control shell and would rotate between Door to Nothingness and Knowledge Pool combo as win conditions. Awful.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:36
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Eh, I personally liked control because of the environment I was thrown into. Having to deal with turn four infect kills and loving kill or die titans with things like Oblivion Ring sitting around made winning Magic manageable for my crappy newbie deck. Werewolves certainly wasn't cutting it for the local meta.
Ramos fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 22:44
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I like the control archetypes in standard, it's monoblue devotion decks that really piss me off.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:45
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qbert posted:Considering like 80% of Standard control staples are rotating out with RTR, I'm guessing the deck archetype could be dead unless Journey into Nyx or the next block's first brings in a lot of equivalent replacements. Reminder that at this time last year people were saying UW control was going to be dead because Snapcaster, Resto Angel, Augur of Bolas, and Terminus were leaving.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:46
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Entropic posted:Reminder that at this time last year people were saying UW control was going to be dead because Snapcaster, Resto Angel, Augur of Bolas, and Terminus were leaving. Was this before or after Verdict, Det Sphere, Azorius Charm, and Sphinx's had come out? I never played INN-RTR Standard, but I can't see how you can look at those 4 cards and not see a possible control deck.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:48
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It's just kind of pointless to speculate about rotation without knowing anything about the fall set.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:49
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Entropic posted:Reminder that at this time last year people were saying UW control was going to be dead because Snapcaster, Resto Angel, Augur of Bolas, and Terminus were leaving. Yeah because people assumed wizards would print cards to make other decks good Nope, theros is a big enough turd even a t1 deck with half the cards can still be amazing also that ^ who knows what wizards is going to print/reprint. They could reprint baneslayer angel and be absolute jerks
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Mar 24, 2014 22:50
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I want to hear the goddamn fall set announcement already, I'm bored of Theros and want something new to speculate wildly about. Am I the only one who's pretty unexcited for Journey Into Nyx? The Theros flavour was cool initially but without much in the way of story happening I'm pretty bored of it now.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:54
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Mortimer posted:Yeah because people assumed wizards would print cards to make other decks good  Give me a break, Theros spawned a major new deck type (devotion) that spawned at least four different major color variants. Yeah, okay, some of those have fallen and a certain class of player is still facerolling UW or Esper because that's what that class of player does in literally any environment, and Sphinx's Revelation was probably a mistake, but I think Wizards more than did their diligence with the design of Theros itself.vvv It was definitely a thing, especially in Accelerated Blue vs. simple draw-go, but I don't think it was nearly as ubiquitous. I remember there was a school of thought that ran Opportunity instead, on the thinking that the times you wanted to Stroke on 5 or 8+ mana weren't worth the loss of efficiency at 6 or 7 mana. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 22:54
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50 pounds of bread posted:Card is bullshit and never should have been printed, mind spring is sorcery for a reason. It's really more comparable to Stroke of Genius or Blue Sun's Zenith in this regard, it just also gains you life which is apparently all it needed to be auto-included in every control deck. Were Stroke or Zenith played anywhere near as ubiquitously in control decks in their respective standards? All the combo decks that used Stroke as a finisher don't count.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:57
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JerryLee posted:
Monocolored decks aren't new or innovative, sorry
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Mar 24, 2014 22:58
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JerryLee posted:
Do you think Sphinx's Revelation possibly belongs in the same class of cards as Tolarian Academy, Skullclamp, Mental Mmisstep, Memory Jar, Lin Sivvi, and arguably Stoneforge Mystic? I think Revelation is the main thing that keeps this format honest since it buoys the main deck that's packing wraths against a field of dump trucks (decks that vomit fatties onto the board if left unfettered) and goes toe-to-toe with the other removal-heavy deck in the format.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:00
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Mortimer posted:Monocolored decks aren't new or innovative, sorry Have you been playing/watching the same Magic I've been for the past five years? Mono-colored (or nearly so) decks that aren't dumb aggro are definitely a rarity ever since the modern philosophy of manabases. Zoness posted:Do you think Sphinx's Revelation possibly belongs in the same class of cards as Tolarian Academy, Skullclamp, Mental Mmisstep, Memory Jar, Lin Sivvi, and arguably Stoneforge Mystic? "Mistake" is context-specific (and often, alas, only visible in hindsight). If Legacy were the only format then Rev wouldn't be a mistake (at least not on the overpowered side), but for Standard there's a good argument that it was.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:01
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:It's really more comparable to Stroke of Genius or Blue Sun's Zenith in this regard, it just also gains you life which is apparently all it needed to be auto-included in every control deck. Were Stroke or Zenith played anywhere near as ubiquitously in control decks in their respective standards? All the combo decks that used Stroke as a finisher don't count. I think Blue-Black control decks in Scars-Innistrad standard might've used Blue Sun as a one of? I can't remember, I was playing fun decks like Heartless Summoning. I think they mostly preferred to lean on Forbidden Alchemy and Think Twice
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Mar 24, 2014 23:01
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JerryLee posted:"Mistake" is context-specific (and often, alas, only visible in hindsight). If Legacy were the only format then Rev wouldn't be a mistake (at least not on the overpowered side), but for Standard there's a good argument that it was. I listed cards that were banned from Standard or Block (also Mental Misstep) - a card that gets banned from its own standard or block can be called a mistake. Zoness fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 23:03
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Entropic posted:I want to hear the goddamn fall set announcement already, I'm bored of Theros and want something new to speculate wildly about. I wouldn't say I'm bored, but I'm definitely a lot more interested to start learning about Huey block than I am for the spring set previews in a couple weeks. I just don't have very high hopes for anything really novel or ambitious, design-wise, coming out of Theros block. Bestow is a neat mechanic, but so much of the rest of it just feels like it's a completely ordinary Magic set that's using the word 'Enchantment' as a rhetorical flourish rather than pushing any boundaries. Take some goddamn risks! 
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Mar 24, 2014 23:04
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Zoness posted:I listed cards that were banned from Standard or Block - a card that gets banned from its own standard or block can be called a mistake. Fair enough, it looked to me at first glance like you were just listing the game's worst offenders of all time. I do think it's possible for a card to be a mistake even if it doesn't need to be banned from its standard, yes. Different degrees and all that.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:04
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JerryLee posted:Fair enough, it looked to me at first glance like you were just listing the game's worst offenders of all time. For instance I think most people'd be hard pressed to say Pack Rat was a good idea.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:06
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JerryLee posted:Have you been playing/watching the same Magic I've been for the past five years? Mono-colored (or nearly so) decks that aren't dumb aggro are definitely a rarity ever since the modern philosophy of manabases. Uh, I've seen mono decks in every color? Mono red is a given and probably the most ubiquitous Mono white is just white weenie, usually in every standard at some point Mono black was moderately popular during innistrad/rtr because of the removal and vampire nighthawk existing Mono green I personally played during most of INN/RTR using predator ooze and wolfir silverheart Mono blue was probably the least played due to the lack of reasons to stick in one color, but I've seen it done before Theros, albeit poorly Really though, Theros just made Mono Blue and Mono black good, that's two decks. Oh now you're quantifying they can't be "dumb aggro", well now you're moving these goalposts.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:08
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I hate U/W control because it slows down tournaments. I was judging a Standard event where two control players couldn't finish a single game in time. 0/0/1 draws are dumb. They're especially dumb when both players can be playing at a reasonable pace and still no one wins in 50+ minutes. I was judging at a Standard PTQ in November, and it took the U/W mirror almost three hours to finish it's top 4 match.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:10
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Attorney at Funk posted:For instance I think most people'd be hard pressed to say Pack Rat was a good idea. Pack Rat was a limited ultra-bomb that no one would've played in Standard if not for there being an archetype which it happened to fit nicely into. Probably not a good comparison to Sphinx which is amazing on its own, full stop.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:11
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Brownhat posted:I hate U/W control because it slows down tournaments. I was judging a Standard event where two control players couldn't finish a single game in time. 0/0/1 draws are dumb. They're especially dumb when both players can be playing at a reasonable pace and still no one wins in 50+ minutes. This is the fault of the u/w players. Good players can finish games, no problem.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:13
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qbert posted:Pack Rat was a limited ultra-bomb that no one would've played in Standard if not for there being an archetype which it happened to fit nicely into. Probably not a good comparison to Sphinx which is amazing on its own, full stop. Yeah but that's not a useful definition of the word 'mistake'. I don't think a card must be at least as abstractly and contextlessly powerful as Sphinx's Revelation for it to be better if it hadn't have been printed.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:14
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Brownhat posted:I hate U/W control because it slows down tournaments. I was judging a Standard event where two control players couldn't finish a single game in time. 0/0/1 draws are dumb. They're especially dumb when both players can be playing at a reasonable pace and still no one wins in 50+ minutes. I can't think of a real reason aside from slow play that U/W/x control should be a more egregiously slow deck than 4-color gifts (Champions Block) or U/B teachings (TSP block and RAV-TSP standard) were, especially in their respective mirrors. U/W/x control decks play like, 10 relevant cards in the mirror, tops. Okay, 36 if you count lands.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:16
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I'm just sick of Control players with no personality. I get why you are playing the deck, but be more than a Magic-playing robot dammit.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:18
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