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AdventFalls posted:In his defense, I used the wrong icon. 
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Mar 24, 2014 22:49
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
 Pfft, whatever you say, old man. Fact is we don't need you anymore ; have you seen the new castles? We build them bigger and stronger than ol' Ceaser ever did. Nothing can get through that anymore. Armies take one look at our walls and they just turn right around. Anyway, hating the barbarians is so played out. All the cool neaniskos are wearing mustaches and pointed hats.    That's right, we wear our sleeves OUTSIDE our arms, and there ain't a goddamn thing you can do about it.  YF-23 posted:
Woah.... ok, ok, yeah, I just said a bunch of stuff about how we don't need war no more, but that sounds cool, so.. ## Sponsor the Valarian Order Establishment Act Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 22:54
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YF-23 posted:
 You present a compelling case and offer an intriguing solution. Very well. I recognise your concerns with the proposed legislation, and in solidarity, ##Unsponsor the Imperial Army Act. I will say, however, if the Imperial Army Act was one of the Old Roman submissions, it would still have my full support, owing to the increased amount of legislature that they can put through. However, as the sole Milvian legislation, I do agree it does not have the full support of the entire party. I will maintain my support for my Evangelism Act proposal, as none can doubt or question the Milvian credentials of that legislation. In addition, I ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:05
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If an Old Roman Senator would care to take over sponsorship for the Imperial Army Act, and that is what my fellow Milvians require to feel secure with the bill, then I am more than happy to do so-- I am interested in results, not personal accolades. OOC: I certainly can't fight with "Rincewind's up for modding the game for this bill," haha, I see the writing on the wall here for the IAA otherwise.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:25
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 ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:44
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 ##Support the Valerian Order Establishment Act
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Mar 24, 2014 23:48
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 ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act This proposal is a good deal more pious than the 'Milvian' Imperial Army Act while actually having a chance to pass on this aggressive floor. I support it in the hope that this new Valerian Order will become a guarantor of peace and stability in the Holy Land once our forces have reclaimed it. I am also glad to see that Senator Nightingale has come to some measure of sense. While it is still my opinion the Imperial Army Act is still a superfluous piece of legislation worth less than the parchment it was written on, I will grudgingly accept its passing should an Old Roman colleague see fit to sponsor it.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:49
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## Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act As a loyal Komnenian, I feel it is appropriate to honor the Empress we all owe so much to with a holy order in her name.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:56
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Having sponsored my own bill already, I feel I cannot take sponsorship of the Imperial Army Act. I do, however, think I'd like to make a suggestion to my fellow Senators as it concerns the Valerian Order Act. I think, for both the image and the strength of the order, that the state should set aside funds to see the Valerien Order armed with Damascus Steel. Perhaps we should even begin considering... re-appropriating the forging of this steel for ourselves.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:58
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 New Byzantines / Phanariotes  Arshak I Qutuzid Senator Yf is correct, with merely the forces we currently have at our disposal we won't be able to defend the Holy Land from its current tyrants. Just like we need professional soldiers to fight for the Crown, we'll need professional soldiers to fight for the Cross. In order to safeguard the land from the Levantine Sultans to the south and east, and to ensure that everyone is allowed free passage to Jerusalem. ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act
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Mar 25, 2014 00:03
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Rincewind posted:Yeah, this is sufficiently cool I'd mod it in (especially since we literally don't have access to any Holy Orders right now, since you need to hold Jerusalem to get the only Orthodox one in-game). Well hell, in that case: ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act
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Mar 25, 2014 00:04
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##Support the Valerian Order Establishment Act
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Mar 25, 2014 00:09
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 ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act. With the truth of the proper form of Christianity finally reaching the heretics to the west, it only behooves us to ensure that the new influx of pilgrims and other faithful worships who travel around the empire will have adequate protection. We should also give this order and any other holy order who wishes to join the Empire land so that it may better build up its self to protect the faithful in need. Certain islands in the Mediterranean might be our best bet for such bases. Cyprus, Crete, Malta to name a few. Being isolated from mainland politics while still in the Empire will also allow these order to maintain themselves above the temporal squabbles of the vile DOUXS as well, while giving these stalwart defenders of Christianity easy access to our trade lanes to ensure only the finest equipment is provided to them. ## Sponsor the Jewish Reward Act We must respect one of the most sacred precepts of Christ, that of charity. While our more backwards cousins in Europe have been satiating their ignorant blood-lust and superstitious visions of daemons on the Jewish people. Yet have we seen that here? No! Time and time again, from the earliest days of Alexios through our glorious restoration, the Jews have been there to lend monetary aid to the Empire, aid which time and time again helped to be our salvation. Did they commit usury? Yes, but considering our dire straights, they could have easily given us harsher contracts, yet they didn't. When the empire needed extensions on the loans taken, they were granted without hesitation. Now some here, like those in Unitas would claim that having a religious and linguistic group who is different would be bad for our Empire, well I say if not for the Jews there would be no empire! The Varangian may have lend us their swords and bodies, but to use such a potent force, to utilize all the soldiers and mercenaries who fought and died for this glorious empire, all that was because of Jewish aid. ## Sponsor The Varangian Reward Act And of course, who could forget those noble soldiers who time and time again fell against the sword of our foes and gave their lives for Rome? I think it goes without saying they should be rewarded. While holy Jerusalem might be a tad large for them (I'd prefer to give it to the Patriarch of Jerusalem), I am all in favor of rewarding this noble cadre of soldiers with land and titles for the long and prestigious service. ## Merchant Levant Act While ideally we should boycott Somalia, we also need to form our own republic to serve as a bulwark against the advancement of the Somali merchant, last I checked this was Rome, we don't use the dinar here! I say we beat those bastards at their own game and flood them with the finest of good that only a magnificent place like Rome can provide. ## Sponsor The Tri-Lingual Literacy Act Look, while yes Greek is the greatest of the civilized tongues, we need to face reality and realize that we're in possession of an Empire that stretches half the Mediterranean. While we can slowly educate nobles and the like, actually supplanting a language of an entire region will be difficult and encourages unrest, rebellions and vile DOUXS rallying to their banner people wanted to "protect" their heritage. I think it would be a lot easier if we can all agree that if a ruler is willing to bend the knee and acknoledge the benevolent leadership of our Emperors and Empresses, we'll be good.
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Mar 25, 2014 00:13
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Jimmy4400nav posted:
 You are a fool. If you think the new Jewish DOUX(!!!!!!!!) or patricians will not be involved in every rebellion against the Crown, you are wrong. They will defy us until Jerusalem is theirs, and they will defy us after that. If they want land, let them convert. Good for us, good for their souls. DOUXES(!!!!!) wouldn't rebel to protect their culture if we would stop installing non-Roman DOUXES(!!!!!!) and Despots. "Tolerance" may be easy in the short run, but our heirs won't be so grateful. An empire can't be maintained on force alone, and barbarian loyalty is always suspect: our history should teach us that. Anyway, an Orthodox holy order should be wonderful, as long as it serves Rome alone. ##sponsor Valerian Order Establishment Act
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Mar 25, 2014 01:25
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##Support the Valerian Order Establishment Act ## Sponsor the Cosmopolitan Empire Act
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Mar 25, 2014 01:34
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 ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act ##Sponsor the Franco-Roman Alliance Act Oh no, I missed some! I didn't forget you, Senators, I swear, I just didn't see your acts for a moment!  Are the Loyalists truly dissolved? It's quite sad, everyone has the right idea 
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Mar 25, 2014 01:35
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I must concur, Senator Jimmy, and ask you to please reconsider your support for the Jewish Reward Act. People have been bandying about the term "un-Milvian" back and forth for some time now over simple military bills, but if anything is not fit for a senator aligned with our party, it is the notion of giving land to peoples of heathen faiths, however loyal to the Empire.
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Mar 25, 2014 01:36
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##Unsponsor the Imperial Army Act ##Support the Valerian Order Establishment Act I here by withdraw my sponsorship of of the Imperial Army Act in factor of the Valerian Order Establishment Act.
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Mar 25, 2014 01:47
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 ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act I've got some reservations about supporting this bill, I gotta say, but I think it'll be worth it. It'll strengthen the Empire, which relatively weakens the Douxes in the next inevitable civil war. You'd think they'd knock that poo poo off after the last two hundred years of the Koumenoi feeding them their own teeth. You'd also think that I'd have learned to bring a spare change of clothes to the Senate, but you'd be wrong there too. I wonder if Daddy left anything in this desk... oh, hey. Kif. Well, that explains why he was so calm all the time.
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Mar 25, 2014 01:50
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Jimmy4400nav posted:
Adept Nightingale posted:
New Byzantines / Phanariotes Arshak I Qutuzid On the other hand I, and I do believe I can speak for my fellow members of the New Byzantines as well, commend you Senator Jimmy for looking past the religious and cultural borders and stretching out a hand to the Jewish people. While I do have my own reasons for not supporting the Act they are merely temporary, and had the political situation been different I would've whole-heartedly supported it myself. And with the negative response you have been given from your fellow Milvians, perhaps I can suggest that you and your fellow Fraternalists give your support to another faction? Pious as the Milvians might be they are also very selective in who they support, and the Jewish people are not of those. Are you not yourself a man of the currency, Senator Jimmy? Do you not consider that the economy is vital to the survival of the Empire? And here the Milvians come asking for Tax-Brakes for the Church? Surely you and your fellow Fraternalists must see the wisdom in switching to the New Byzantines once this elective cycle is over? The Steppes and Republics Faction have already lent us their support, and keep doing so. We see to the good of the merchant and the economy as much as to the rest of the State and the People. The Milvians are a single-issue party, and will not give support to your cause and instead, like you have observed, condemn you for having done a pious act in giving the Jewish people a place to call home. Is this really a party you and your fellow Fraternalists wish to back?
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Mar 25, 2014 01:58
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I cannot believe what I am hearing! The New Byzantines are nothing less than enemies of the Empire, seeking to undermine us from within! We might as well reestablish Israel and the Temple, crown a Seljuk Sultan of Rum, and give all of Italy to the Pope! I have no doubt that the New Byzantines, led by the vile House of Qutuzid, would applaud! Giving the Jews anything but Christ is, quite frankly, an offense against God. It is our holy duty to convert our citizens, to save their souls and improve their lot in life! Only the Romans are capable of it! All other peoples have been proven failures by conquest itself.
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Mar 25, 2014 02:06
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
New Byzantines / Phanariotes Arshak I Qutuzid Or have perhaps you Romans have failed by seeking nothing but to conquer. Be it for the sake of Glory, Pride, History, or even God, you are just as bloodthirsty as those you speak of as lesser than yourself, whether you admit it or not. Another reason why I would rather see us as the Byzantine Empire, an inheritor of Rome rather than Rome itself, something similar yet superior. Something that doesn't seek land to conquer just for the sake of conquest itself.
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Mar 25, 2014 02:13
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Luhood posted:
I admit, conquest is the wrong word. You see, Rome is the only legitimate state on Earth. The Emperor is Christ's own regent. That means that every other king, prince, patrician, etc., are usurpers! Imposters! Traitors to God, and mostly heathens besides! It is therefore our duty and right to liberate, convert, and uplift the world. If they resist the imposition of rightful authority, well, they are only getting what they have coming. A desire for anything less is treason.
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Mar 25, 2014 02:22
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
New Byzantines / Phanariotes Arshak I Qutuzid Yes, our God have not given them his right to rule. And thus they do not rule in his name. But perhaps in their own name? Or in the name of their own Gods? Is not the Caliph to the south a ruler in the name of Allah? Does Varangian legends not say that the Fylkir rule as foremost of mortals in the eyes of their gods the Aesir? My point, Senator Cyrahzax, is that this is what those barbarians you so fault is doing, and also what caused the schism between Eastern and Western churches in the first place. They tried to combine the Spiritual and Secular into a single entity. The Basilleus does not rule in the name of god, that is the Patriarch of Constantinople. The Patriarch, foremost in all things Divine, is not a Secular power, just as the Basilleus is not a Spiritual one. The Komnenian bloodline was chosen by the Church to rule over the Byzantine Empire, true, and that is why he lead. But that is not why we, or at least myself, follow.
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Mar 25, 2014 02:48
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Luhood posted:
This is the error, all too common among those not of my party; you assume that our calls for conquest are merely for the sake of conquest. Let me be clear - this is not so. We Old Romans are often accused of looking backwards; of seeing the past as a thing to be aspired to. I confess, this is truth - though not truth in the way some 'New' thinkers believe it to be. There was a time when a Roman citizen could walk across the face of the known world free of the fear of molestation? He could walk across the Earth unharmed, cloaked only in the protection of the words civis Romanus -- I am a Roman citizen. He was heir to the greatest civilization the world had ever known, granted an education and an economic livelihood that was the envy of all the world. Rome was a shining beacon for others to aspire to; young men who did not have the good fortune to be born to Rome flocked to its Legions, earning citizenship through service and blood. And then the barbarians came. And the barbarians never left, fellow Senators! They forged crowns and aped our ways; they called themselves 'Dukes' in imitation of the noble Roman dux, and then 'Kings.' They aped the ways of true civilization, but it was civilization born from savagery, and so has fallen into misery and decay. Witness the disintegrating 'Holy Roman Empire', or the near-constant war in the British isles. Witness the failure of the "Reconquista." I do not care if a man is Greek or Italian or even Jew; I care if he is Roman. That Roman citizen deserves that safety. He deserves that education. He deserves those riches. And this world is full of people who will never get those things because they do not have the good fortune to be Roman. They should have been Roman, but that birthright was taken from them by barbarians who now style themselves Kings. It is our duty and our honor to bring them these opportunities. It is our duty and our honor to restore to them their birthright. It is our duty and our honor to restore Rome to its former borders - so that all who reside within might have the opportunity to say civis Romanus, and know once more the glories that those words hold. "Conquest for conquest's sake?" Hardly. You who would condemn the people of Europe to the depravity of barbarians yet claim to care for your fellow man, you disappoint me. The Old Romans work to bring the glories of Rome to a world in dire need of them. P.S. Why yes, that is a West Wing quote, what of it?
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Mar 25, 2014 03:10
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My fellow Senators! I see my Jewish Reward Act has brought forth much discussion! Some of it quite... expected, but I am pleased to see some support for it! First, let me make things plain. I am not, nor have I ever advocated, giving the land of Palestine to the Jews. Handing the land of Christ over to anyone is simply unacceptable, especially given whose hands in which it currently resides. But to those who object on religious grounds, I ask you this - Was Jesus not a Jew? Did he not preach to love thy neighbor? Did he not spurn the image of Caesar himself and instead off spiritual reward to any who followed him, regardless of blood or upbringing? One last question: Did not the Romans repress the followers of God for the longest of times, and did not fully accept Christ until Justinian? The Jewish people have suffered by our hand, and by many others. By reestablishing a Jewish successor state, a state whose borders are beyond that of Rome, we may finally atone for our sins. To my fellow Old Romans and others, I remind you that in our darkest hour the Varangians might have supplied swords and shields, but who paid for them when we could not? Who ensured that we, time and time again, had the money to survive the Turkish invasions?! Who ensured that it was not bankruptcy that ensured that the Pope-In-Exile remained the dominant figure in Christendom? Who did as Christ did, and when asked for help in our most dire hour, gave it? I say it was the JEWS! Even if you do not believe that we owe the Jews a debt of blood, we owe them a debt of honor that repaying gold (with interest) alone cannot repay. Let them have a New Israel in Africa, let them have it as a homeland, and let them safe pilgrimage into the Holy Land. AdventFalls fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 03:47
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##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act.
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Mar 25, 2014 04:09
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So, that is your plan? Impose heathen rule on heathens, then leave? It is unrighteous. It is ungodly. It is unholy! Not only that, but is an insult to the men you want to honor. I can see it now: "Thank you, O Romans, for this barren patch of Africa, for these hordes of resentful new subjects, and for putting us near such wonderful natives!" Fool. The overthrow of these Jews would be inevitable without our support, and I will not see Christian lives wasted on blasphemers! As for you, Qutuzid, the Patriarch is subject to the Emperor. They all are. The Orthodox Church is an instrument of Imperial authority, and the Emperor has say in all Church matters. You bring up the Caliphate, and that is the finest example of the kind of empire we should be. The Arabs molded all the people the conquered in their image, and their combination of religion and state led to one of the most powerful realms that ever exited! Their sins and blasphemies destroyed them, but not before they destroyed Persia and our southern provinces. I see them as a lesson from God. Models in all but faith.
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Mar 25, 2014 04:11
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
Did we not do the same while we worshiped the old gods? Did we not claim that it was right to do so for Rome? We had to be enlightened by God's grace, and so the Jews may have their throw if this is passed. Just as the Jews came to our aid, so we should to theirs to ensure they are not harmed by the entrenched Muslims.
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Mar 25, 2014 04:17
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##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act.
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Mar 25, 2014 04:28
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Adept Nightingale posted:
Lord Cyrahzax posted:
While some of the senators, including those in my parent party raise concerns about up creating a Jewish location outside our lands, let me posit this to you. We're it not for the Jews, the divine revelation of God and his first covenant would not have been brought to the Earth. Did not Abraham become the father of all those who follow the one true god? We must remember Jesus's sacrifice created a new covenant, one with EVERY human, not just the Jews. Jesus preached not about the failings of the Jews, but rather of the petty politics and factions within ancient Judea which had diluted faith towards God. Jesus was born and died a Jew, living in a Jewish land that was ruled by the old Romans and was executed on orders of the old Romans. Unlike the heathen Muslims who follow the teachings of the false prophet Muhammad, the Jews follow the faith and traditions laid out in the Old Testament. While they may not accept Jesus, they sill follow many tenets of our faith. While it may at first glance to be "un-Milvian" to give conquered land to a non-Orthodox ruler, remember, when the heathens were knocking on our gates, when Rome need was dire, it was the Jews who came to our aid. Time and time again they did this, despite Christendom's harsh and often violent rejection of them, they still came to our aid. Now, years later, secure now in our position, we now have a chance to reward those very people who time and time again gave us the means to save our empire. Think too on this, the Muslims allow Jews to practice freely in their lands so long as they pay more taxes. We're saying to our Jews "oh thanks for saving us time and time again, now abandon your ways of life and faith!". Come now senators, when it comes to the people who are the originators of our faith and the people who saved our Empire several times over, I believe we can give a little leeway to a small province in a part of Africa. Before the humble representative from Unitas come screaming that this is just the slippery slope for "tolerance", I'd only support apart of Africa or Spain for this and this would be solely a special case given the circumstances. The Muslim provinces we conquer should of course be converted, as with any pagan or heretical province we take, all I ask is that we follow a basic principle of Christendom and give charity to a people that have been pushed down time and time again, yet rose to protect our most serene and holy empire. Plus having buffers and allies outside of Rome was a practice the old empire did as well, the only reason it failed was because of improper fiscal policy within the empire that drove the Empire to absorbed its buffers so it could create a larger tax base and pool for recruiting soldiers*. I think our wise emperors and empresses have laid out proper structures so that this scenario won't happen now *This among several other reasons, seriously you could write books on the growth of Rome and how it lead to its decline.
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Mar 25, 2014 08:19
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:
Let all men of the Old Roman faction know that this is our way, and this man's rousing speech is the embodiment of what we stand for. We're here not to be subjugated once more by heathen civilizations and foreign backwards ideas, WE are the greatest philosophers, WE are the greatest militarists, WE have an Imperial republic and solid governing. The world shall once more become Roman, and I will not allow conceding ideas and apologetic behavior ruin the Empire! Homogeneity will embody our lands as people will know the grace of our statecraft and faith in the church of Orthodoxy and empress Valeria, Saint of the Empire. ##sponsor Valerian Order Establishment Act
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Mar 25, 2014 10:55
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## Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act It is inspiring to see the Senators of our noble council expressing agreement on the need for an Orthodox Order that may protect pilgrims and give our forces a righteous advantage against the Mohammedans of the East. That it may be formed at all is nothing short of miraculous, and clearly gives credence to whispers that her devoutness in this life (despite her disagreements with some in the Church) should grant her some consideration for Glorification and Sainthood. Για την Ιερουσαλήμ και της Αλεξάνδρειας! For Jerusalem and Alexandria! OOC: I haven't much experience with it, but if (although, more hopefully when) you restore Schism, all/most/some Catholics become Orthodox and Catholicism becomes an Orthodox heresy, right? How do the Catholic holy orders shake out? Do they stay Catholic or do they convert as well?
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Mar 25, 2014 11:14
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 ##support Paint It White Act
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Mar 25, 2014 11:15
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Unwise_Cashew posted:OOC: I haven't much experience with it, but if (although, more hopefully when) you restore Schism, all/most/some Catholics become Orthodox and Catholicism becomes an Orthodox heresy, right? How do the Catholic holy orders shake out? Do they stay Catholic or do they convert as well? Yes that's correct; most but not all Catholics become Orthodox immediately, and Catholicism becomes a heresy of Orthodox. I'm not entirely sure on the holy orders, but I'm pretty sure heresies can't have any holy orders so I imagine they convert to Orthodox. Edit: Actually, thinking about, I'm only certain of this for vanilla. I don't know if any of the mods used affect this.
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Mar 25, 2014 12:26
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##Sponsor the Next Stop, Africa Act ##Sponsor the Valerian Order Establishment Act ##Sponsor the Imperial Infrastructure and Centralization Act Also if the Imperial Army Act has been reworked as an Old Roman proposal I would like to ##Sponsor the Imperial Army Act
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Mar 25, 2014 16:02
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##Sponser Next Stop, Africa Act ##Sponsor Illyrian Reconquest Act ##Sponsor Imperial Infrastructure and Centralization Act
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Mar 25, 2014 16:11
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Gnooble posted:
Alas, senator, no one from your party has offered to take it up, as yet-- perhaps you'd consider doing so?
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Mar 25, 2014 16:23
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Wait, I'm confused, aren't Jews those fellows with all the money that killed Jesus? Why would you want people that are already rich and have a proven record of killing messiahs to rule our lands? I though both Jesus and Mohammed had some firm words about them for not updating their faith? Also I once offered a Jew some oysters and they said it was against their religion to eat it. I don't see why we would put up with people that hate shellfish. On the other hand, my esteemed second has just informed me that it not only the state that has taken loans from these aforementioned moneylenders. Can't we then just give them another merchant republic? Pick the one making the least money and toss a Jew in there instead?
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Mar 25, 2014 21:55
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 13:06 |
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
OOC: The way gifting a republic works, the families generated are based on teh ethnicity/religion of the Lord Mayor who was granted the Duchy. Meaning we need a Jew Lord Mayor prior to this.
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Mar 25, 2014 22:16
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