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double sulk posted:https://gist.github.com/munificent/9749671 Terry
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 02:16 |
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# ? May 10, 2024 11:50 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:in a database accessed by a single application, stored procs have no impact on data integrity why anyone is letting more than one application into a single db is beyond me. i am pretty sure that is one of the things that a proper soa solves and why isn't everyone doing that yet? most of us have to work with legacy code and the hellish places it lives, i get it. but outside of that why forcefully subject yourself to pain when you don't have to (and presumably don't want to)?
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 02:20 |
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b/c most companies do more than one thing
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 02:23 |
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Shaggar posted:b/c most companies do more than one thing my nigga have you heard about soa
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 02:26 |
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FamDav posted:my nigga have you heard about soa gently caress yeah this
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 02:28 |
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FamDav posted:my nigga have you heard about soa i have lots of soa but i don't have the time to convert everything especially the way old legacy poo poo.
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 02:35 |
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Shaggar posted:i have lots of soa but i don't have the time to convert everything especially the way old legacy poo poo. k
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 03:56 |
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usually the SOA is so controlled good luck getting any changes made to it in a timely manner so everyone subverts the process and starts writing to the database directly ORMs are still fine in 99% of cases though and sprocs are poo poo in 99% of cases but unfortunately you need to use them for certain things
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 11:18 |
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ORMs are terrible. lol if your data model is so poorly designed/trivial that using ORMs is actually pleasant. a generation of coders growing up on ORMs and refuse to learn anything about SQL and coincidentally nosql becomes a fad. weird.
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 12:14 |
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hey i gotta store information about literally 100s of users and orms work fine for me? don't see the need for sprocs or statement mapping?
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 12:16 |
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if you saw our database you'd wish the developers back in 1990 or whatever the gently caress had an orm to guide them
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 13:06 |
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Morkai posted:i don't understand this: have fun projecting your tables to a new ORM when your current one is abandoned/sucks/whatever SQL is not hard, statement mappers make it literally trivial to map rows to objects
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:15 |
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power botton posted:hey i gotta store information about literally 100s of users and orms work fine for me? don't see the need for sprocs or statement mapping? ya in this case gently caress it im talking about millions of rows of biz data not mickey mouse poo poo also if you want different schemas than what orms generate well star schema 4 lyfe
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:16 |
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Malcolm XML posted:ya in this case gently caress it im talking about millions of rows of biz data not mickey mouse poo poo yeah u can contort your orm into reflecting the rows but why bother at that point the object relational impedance mismatch is big and for tiny projects it doesn't matter
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:18 |
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Malcolm XML posted:ya in this case gently caress it im talking about millions of rows of biz data not mickey mouse poo poo thats the point everyone who uses ORMs does mickey mouse web development and calling up Users.get(@userid) is like half their queries
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:18 |
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Malcolm XML posted:yeah u can contort your orm into reflecting the rows but why bother at that point ask me about working on a project where we use entity framework to a nosql table storage mechanism
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:18 |
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power botton posted:thats the point everyone who uses ORMs does mickey mouse web development and calling up Users.get(@userid) is like half their queries yeah exactly in that case their data is irrelevant I bet they don't even do tiered backups
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:19 |
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Malcolm XML posted:ask me about working on a project where we use entity framework to a nosql table storage mechanism for literally billions of updates a day
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:19 |
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Morkai posted:why anyone is letting more than one application into a single db is beyond me. i am pretty sure that is one of the things that a proper soa solves and why isn't everyone doing that yet? perhaps...there is a many to many relationship between apps and db's!!!! makes u think
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:20 |
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Malcolm XML posted:1. have fun projecting your tables to a new ORM when your current one is abandoned/sucks/whatever 1. this doesn't really happen often enough to be a concern. and you projected your tables to the first ORM in any case so do it with the second 2. irrelevant how hard it is. sql is objectively bad for most purposes where it could be replaced by application code. 3. data volume is irrelevant. ORMs are not significantly slower at inserting than sprocs
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:23 |
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enthusiastic about databases
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:25 |
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~Coxy posted:1. this doesn't really happen often enough to be a concern. and you projected your tables to the first ORM in any case so do it with the second lol
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:28 |
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~Coxy posted:2. irrelevant how hard it is. sql is objectively bad for most purposes where it could be replaced by application code. nope. nope, nope, nope. there's nothing grosser than seeing someone take 15 lines to fetch a row from a table by instantiating some bullshit SelectQueryBuilder and calling a dozen methods on it instead of just writing a line of sql. ~Coxy posted:3. data volume is irrelevant. ORMs are not significantly slower at inserting than sprocs ahaha
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:34 |
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entity framework is trivially simple and i used it by designing my database first and then it generated models that trivially map to my tables where exactly am i contorting anything to anything else
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:54 |
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nah we'll just use this driver and poo poocode:
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:55 |
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Bloody posted:entity framework is trivially simple and i used it by designing my database first and then it generated models that trivially map to my tables where exactly am i contorting anything to anything else ef really isn't that simple and is very bad for anything more advanced than the examples on asp.net
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:57 |
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var foos = context.Foos; wow that 15 lines of code sure was a lot more effort than writing some crappy boilerplate CRUD sql sproc
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:57 |
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Bloody posted:nah we'll just use this driver and poo poo i had to do an assignment recently using jdbc and it owned in comparison to the other lovely pure sql stuff
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:57 |
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Bloody posted:entity framework is trivially simple and i used it by designing my database first and then it generated models that trivially map to my tables where exactly am i contorting anything to anything else yep
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 14:59 |
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Shaggar posted:ef really isn't that simple and is very bad for anything more advanced than the examples on asp.net maybe try telling us what's so bad about it
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:00 |
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Bloody posted:nah we'll just use this driver and poo poo we use devart for oracle at work with oracle types for entities and sprocs for each one and it's even worse
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:02 |
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ok no fair including 200 lines of boilerplate connection setup code, i don't give a poo poo about logging, and good languages automatically close the connection once the script finishes running. but this is what really bugs me:Bloody posted:String stm = "INSERT INTO authors(id, name) VALUES(?, ?)"; how come nobody ever wraps dumb poo poo like this in something that makes it more succinct? calling a method for every single parameter you want to bind is hilariously verbose. this is what that should look like (in a good language): Db::insert('authors', [$id, $author]);
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:03 |
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entity objects require state janitoring if you're doing anything other than just reading them. its a huge pain in the dick to use. is the object up to date? has it been saved? what the hell changed it last? oops you changed it too many times now its invalid, recreate it and try again! if you want to use ef, use it for statement mapping so you can just do context.doThing(parameters) instead of that retarded object state bullshit.
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:03 |
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Malcolm XML posted:have fun projecting your tables to a new ORM when your current one is abandoned/sucks/whatever Malcolm XML posted:ya in this case gently caress it im talking about millions of rows of biz data not mickey mouse poo poo you've never used hibernate not every orm is a loving activerecord shitshow disaster
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:05 |
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hibernate sucks
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:07 |
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double sulk posted:https://gist.github.com/munificent/9749671 [x] vi keybindings [x] emacs keybindings In conclusion, this is what I think of you: [ ] You have some interesting ideas, but this won't fly. [ ] This is a bad IDE, and you should feel bad for creating it. [x] Programming in this IDE is an adequate punishment for inventing it.
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:08 |
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yeah hibernate does suck
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:08 |
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mybatis-spring owns so much cause there wont be any references to any database stuff anywhere in ur code.
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:09 |
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:you've never used hibernate you've never used python not every programming language is a loving javascript shitshow disaster
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:10 |
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# ? May 10, 2024 11:50 |
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all of my database dependencies are runtime
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# ? Mar 25, 2014 15:10 |