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Bait and Swatch
Sep 5, 2012

Join me, Comrades
In the Star Citizen D&D thread

Git Mah Belt Son posted:

I set up a small aquarium at work (2.5g) to keep a betta (this makes 4 active aquariums now...). I ended up picking up one of the strangest, weirdest looking bettas I've ever seen. He's in that so odd he's sort of cute category. His eyes are huge and the lack of pigment in his face makes him what I think is pretty unique.





That is a really neat looking fish. Where'd you find it at?

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Git Mah Belt Son
Apr 26, 2003

Happy Happy Gators

Bait and Swatch posted:

That is a really neat looking fish. Where'd you find it at?

Local fish store - he got in a bunch of unique bettas in his last shipment. He tries to sell bettas that aren't your normal red/blue veil tails.

Cowslips Warren
Oct 29, 2005

What use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?

Grimey Drawer
Very cute dude. Looks like a mix of dragon and veiltail.

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004


Got home from work today, and my 3 year old OB peacock was dead. He was probably my favorite fish too. :cry:

I have no idea what happened, he was healthy and active this morning, there are no marks on his body that I can find, and there hasn't been any aggression in the tank lately at all. Water is fine, and the other fish are healthy looking, so I'm stumped.

Mocking Bird
Aug 17, 2011

LingcodKilla posted:

Anyone in the Bay Area CA want a 55 plexiglass with stand and hood? Built in wet/dry with working pump and coral light. It's in used condition but works and it's free. Just shoot me a PM.

Don't tempt me :( I am renting and likely moving soon, but I really want a big tank again.

Also, does anyone in the Bay Area (east bay specifically) have any extra malaysian trumpet snails for me? I only need a couple to toss in my newt tank.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


Trilineatus posted:

Don't tempt me :( I am renting and likely moving soon, but I really want a big tank again.

Also, does anyone in the Bay Area (east bay specifically) have any extra malaysian trumpet snails for me? I only need a couple to toss in my newt tank.

It's going on the curb this weekend the wife wants it out....

Extra Smooth Balls
Apr 13, 2005

LingcodKilla posted:

It's going on the curb this weekend the wife wants it out....

Why would she throw away something worth so much money?

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


Extra Smooth Balls posted:

Why would she throw away something worth so much money?

Good question. We got it for free and now it's taking up valuable space in our garage. I cleaned it up, filled it up and let the filter run for a week. The plexiglass has minor scratches.

Mostly I just wanted to pass it along to a person who would appreciate it.

I'll probably convince her to not put it curbside.

Extra Smooth Balls
Apr 13, 2005

LingcodKilla posted:

Good question. We got it for free and now it's taking up valuable space in our garage. I cleaned it up, filled it up and let the filter run for a week. The plexiglass has minor scratches.

Mostly I just wanted to pass it along to a person who would appreciate it.

I'll probably convince her to not put it curbside.

You could always list it on freecycle or something similar, maybe craigslist?

unprofessional
Apr 26, 2007
All business.
MonsterFishKeepers. People will jump all over that offer.

avon_grey
Jan 29, 2009

Git Mah Belt Son posted:

I set up a small aquarium at work (2.5g) to keep a betta (this makes 4 active aquariums now...). I ended up picking up one of the strangest, weirdest looking bettas I've ever seen. He's in that so odd he's sort of cute category. His eyes are huge and the lack of pigment in his face makes him what I think is pretty unique.





I had a betta that looked similar to yours when I first got him.



I've since moved, so I don't own him anymore since traveling across 4 states with fish was a bad idea. My friend recently sent me this picture:



I noticed he started changing colors a few months after I got him, but now he's lovelier than I could've thought. Would be interesting to see if your betta did something similar.

avon_grey fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Mar 26, 2014

POOL IS CLOSED
Jul 14, 2011

I'm just exploding with mackerel. This is the aji wo kutta of my discontent.
Pillbug
Kind of an aquarium newbie here. I haven't kept one since I was a kid, but lately I have been interested in starting a bowl or tank with aquatic plants, and I have for some time wanted to build a moderate-sized tank as a gift to my spouse. He also kept a small tank as a kid--with an aquatic frog he had for years.

I guess my main concern is that I have two rear end in a top hat cats. One is really lazy and won't be a problem, but the second is a more recent adoption and I don't know how interested she would be in a box of live snacks. Are the all-glass aquariums fairly sturdy in case one of these assholes decides to use it as a delightful butt-warmer? Any recommendations on this side? I want to keep it between 20 - 30 gallons, ish. I was looking at a 125L eheim cube though. So pretty. :3: I remember my cats as a kid liked to flop their lardy asses right atop the lamp's plastic lid/sheath and am concerned that might be too much strain for one of these models.

Likewise, I would only want to keep smaller critters and have been doing some research on what goes well together, but I haven't found anything definitive on this potentially painfully dumb notion. Do pea puffers and dwarf frogs go together, or are the pea puffers gonna turn them into an amphibious buffet?

eta goldmund that fish was beautiful, maybe rimless also isn't the right word for what I'm looking at.

POOL IS CLOSED fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Mar 27, 2014

Bait and Swatch
Sep 5, 2012

Join me, Comrades
In the Star Citizen D&D thread

RedTonic posted:

Kind of an aquarium newbie here. I haven't kept one since I was a kid, but lately I have been interested in starting a bowl or tank with aquatic plants, and I have for some time wanted to build a moderate-sized tank as a gift to my spouse. He also kept a small tank as a kid--with an aquatic frog he had for years.

I guess my main concern is that I have two rear end in a top hat cats. One is really lazy and won't be a problem, but the second is a more recent adoption and I don't know how interested she would be in a box of live snacks. Are the all-glass aquariums fairly sturdy in case one of these assholes decides to use it as a delightful butt-warmer? Any recommendations on this side? I want to keep it between 20 - 30 gallons, ish. I was looking at a 125L eheim cube though. So pretty. :3: I remember my cats as a kid liked to flop their lardy asses right atop the lamp's plastic lid/sheath and am concerned that might be too much strain for one of these models.

Likewise, I would only want to keep smaller critters and have been doing some research on what goes well together, but I haven't found anything definitive on this potentially painfully dumb notion. Do pea puffers and dwarf frogs go together, or are the pea puffers gonna turn them into an amphibious buffet?

eta goldmund that fish was beautiful, maybe rimless also isn't the right word for what I'm looking at.

I made my wife a 30 gallon, tall, hexagon tank with 10 dwarf puffers and 3 african dwarf frogs. It's planted somewhat heavily and has playsand as the substrate. It has worked out very well, despite the large amount of puffers, which is usually cautioned against in a tank this size. We've had no nipping from the puffers and the frogs ignore everything except the other frogs. They also "sing" at night time. I'll try to take some pictures when I get home.

Edit: Just to clarify, I wouldn't recommend a full sized African clawed frog, they would likely eat the puffers, though the little buggers are incredibly fast when they want to be.

Eifert Posting
Apr 1, 2007

Most of the time he catches it every time.
Grimey Drawer
I saw a half moon betta in Taipei that had the coloration of a showa koi. I tried to take a pic and the owner yelled at me. Funny because there were no signs against cameras.

Never seen a betta like that before or since.

POOL IS CLOSED
Jul 14, 2011

I'm just exploding with mackerel. This is the aji wo kutta of my discontent.
Pillbug

Bait and Swatch posted:

I made my wife a 30 gallon, tall, hexagon tank with 10 dwarf puffers and 3 african dwarf frogs. It's planted somewhat heavily and has playsand as the substrate. It has worked out very well, despite the large amount of puffers, which is usually cautioned against in a tank this size. We've had no nipping from the puffers and the frogs ignore everything except the other frogs. They also "sing" at night time. I'll try to take some pictures when I get home.

Edit: Just to clarify, I wouldn't recommend a full sized African clawed frog, they would likely eat the puffers, though the little buggers are incredibly fast when they want to be.

Thanks, that would be really cool! Did you actually fabricate the tank yourself, or is there a vendor out there doing hexes? (And I definitely plan on sticking with dwarf frogs, thanks for mentioning it.)

Eifert Posting
Apr 1, 2007

Most of the time he catches it every time.
Grimey Drawer
I had an African clawed frog growing up. He grew to 7 inches nose to but before croaking. Little guy owned.

Bait and Swatch
Sep 5, 2012

Join me, Comrades
In the Star Citizen D&D thread

RedTonic posted:

Thanks, that would be really cool! Did you actually fabricate the tank yourself, or is there a vendor out there doing hexes? (And I definitely plan on sticking with dwarf frogs, thanks for mentioning it.)

I found it on craislist for $80 actually, though I see them in stores pretty regularly. Sorry about not posting the pictures, I got wrapped up in homework and forgot.

candywife
Mar 3, 2011

RedTonic posted:

Kind of an aquarium newbie here. I haven't kept one since I was a kid, but lately I have been interested in starting a bowl or tank with aquatic plants, and I have for some time wanted to build a moderate-sized tank as a gift to my spouse. He also kept a small tank as a kid--with an aquatic frog he had for years.

I guess my main concern is that I have two rear end in a top hat cats. One is really lazy and won't be a problem, but the second is a more recent adoption and I don't know how interested she would be in a box of live snacks. Are the all-glass aquariums fairly sturdy in case one of these assholes decides to use it as a delightful butt-warmer? Any recommendations on this side? I want to keep it between 20 - 30 gallons, ish. I was looking at a 125L eheim cube though. So pretty. :3: I remember my cats as a kid liked to flop their lardy asses right atop the lamp's plastic lid/sheath and am concerned that might be too much strain for one of these models.

Likewise, I would only want to keep smaller critters and have been doing some research on what goes well together, but I haven't found anything definitive on this potentially painfully dumb notion. Do pea puffers and dwarf frogs go together, or are the pea puffers gonna turn them into an amphibious buffet?

eta goldmund that fish was beautiful, maybe rimless also isn't the right word for what I'm looking at.


This is a 10 gal with a flimsy plastic hood and a 12 lb cat. She loves the heat generated from the tank, but is entirely unaware that it's full of fish. Even if she were aware that it contained tasty snacks, I don't think she'd be able to figure out how to pull the cover off and if she did, I doubt she'd want to get her paws wet. Her fur does get into the tank, which is annoying since it wraps around my plants and looks like underwater tumbleweeds.

POOL IS CLOSED
Jul 14, 2011

I'm just exploding with mackerel. This is the aji wo kutta of my discontent.
Pillbug
Mostly I'm concerned because one year while I was overseas, a family cat fished my pet salamander out of its terrarium and left it in the floor to become jerky. :saddowns: That cat was a super rear end in a top hat but I leave the blame on my folks, who had accepted responsibility for the poor thing while I was away. (I was a kid then, so I didn't have many choices about pet sitters, ha. They also let my aquarium fail after shipping me off to camp one year. One fish ate everyone else... And then got eaten by a cat who did figure out the flippy lid. I'm totally not a bitter adult, promise.)

I'm pretty sure my eldest cat, who is dumb and extremely gentle, wouldn't be interested in anything to do with getting wet. Good to know that a big cat won't necessarily ruin the plastic covers. What cute cat bloomers you've got there, candywife! :3: My big girl is 12 - 13 lbs, so that's definitely reassuring! She might lick a cover ad nauseum but oh well.

I think I'll definitely trawl for a neat shape like the hex! I'm giving myself a lead time since the birthday isn't til November and I want plenty of time to A. get equipment and B. plant poo poo and C. prepare water and watch algae and germs and snails take over.

Fejsze
May 13, 2013

Only you are the fish of my dreams
Advice Request Time:

Repurposing one of my tanks, and am planning on taking out a decent sized piece of Malaysian driftwood with a significant java moss colony growing on it. Don't have anywhere else to put it (yet), and certainly don't want to chuck it, since it took a while to grow and the LFS sells similar pieces for $60+

Can I just put it in a Tupperware and feed it some carbon every once in a while and call it good?

demonR6
Sep 4, 2012

There are too many stupid people in the world. I'm not saying we should kill them all or anything. Just take the warning labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.

Lipstick Apathy
I have a piece of wood that I threw in a foot soaking tub with a bunch of moss, snails and water and it was on the back porch. Eventually it was a giant blob of moss and algae.

unprofessional
Apr 26, 2007
All business.
Just tested my little tank before doing a water change, after two days without a change.

pH - 8.8
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

After water change - pH - 6.6

I've had two danios jump tank, and am keeping the water level about an inch and a half below the top, now. Anything I can do on weekends to limit the huge pH swing? This is an office tank.

Sonic H
Dec 8, 2004

Me love you long time
Question for the experts:

It's likely I'll need to move house very soon and I have a smaller 54 l quarantine tank and a large 240 l main tank. The main tank has about 70 fish in of varying sizes and types. The question is, is it best to take them out and put them into smaller containers with similar other fish (e.g. put my Gouramis together, my tetras together etc.) or to bundle them all into one container?

There's no seriously aggressive finsh in there, but as they have lots of room right now, I don't want to antagonise them unnecessarily and cause issues.

Zaffy
Sep 15, 2003


unprofessional posted:

Just tested my little tank before doing a water change, after two days without a change.

pH - 8.8
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

After water change - pH - 6.6

I've had two danios jump tank, and am keeping the water level about an inch and a half below the top, now. Anything I can do on weekends to limit the huge pH swing? This is an office tank.

First of all, that pH swing is crazy, I'm surprised fish aren't dying from it. Also, Having Nitrates at 0 before a water change is strange. Makes me think the test kit is suspect. As far as keeping pH stable you need some kind of buffering agent.


Sonic H posted:

Question for the experts:

It's likely I'll need to move house very soon and I have a smaller 54 l quarantine tank and a large 240 l main tank. The main tank has about 70 fish in of varying sizes and types. The question is, is it best to take them out and put them into smaller containers with similar other fish (e.g. put my Gouramis together, my tetras together etc.) or to bundle them all into one container?

There's no seriously aggressive finsh in there, but as they have lots of room right now, I don't want to antagonise them unnecessarily and cause issues.

I think just for ease of moving I'd split them into smaller containers. How long do you expect them to be in transit?

Extra Smooth Balls
Apr 13, 2005

My tank hasn't had measurable nitrates/nitrites since it cycled, but then again it's a heavily planted, lightly stocked and fairly overfiltered.

The PH change is nuts though, trying a different test kit would definitely be a good idea.

Goodpart
Jan 9, 2004

quarter circle forward punch
quarter circle forward punch
quarter circle forward punch
rip
A quick question for people more knowledgeable than myself: I have a reasonably new black moor in a good-sized tank. Not overfed, not underfed, water's good (if a little soft on the pH, but very close to 7.0 and trending upwards), and he's energetic/playful. No signs of stress far as I can tell.

However, almost overnight, he's lost much of the matte appearance that he had, and is actually now tending towards bronze. I've had many, many fish in my old home and I've never seen a fish change colour so rapidly without them being sick well beforehand. This guy, though, isn't showing any signs of sickness. Gills are healthy, fins aren't clamped, no markings, no ammonia burns, good appetite, etc etc etc.

I'm going to take my water in for a test tomorrow just to make doubly sure, but last time I checked (Friday) it was totally fine. I've done a water change since then, and the only thing that would have changed was a shift in pH. It was around 7.5 before. The only thing I can think of is that there was a reasonably quick shift in pH from the water change. If that's it, can I expect him to return to normal as the pH levels out a little? And more to the point: is he having a hard time of it in the tank at the moment? If so, what can I do to make things a little better for him?

I know black is a pretty unstable colour, but a change this rapid got me a little worried. I've found no solid answers in my searches so I'm hoping someone can help.

unprofessional
Apr 26, 2007
All business.

Zaffy posted:

First of all, that pH swing is crazy, I'm surprised fish aren't dying from it. Also, Having Nitrates at 0 before a water change is strange. Makes me think the test kit is suspect. As far as keeping pH stable you need some kind of buffering agent.

I did change over half the water - perhaps that's the reason for such a big swing? Only thing in it besides plants are a danio and 4 amano shrimp. Do test kits go bad? This one is an API Master test kit, and less than a year old. Would the big chunk of volcanic rock I have effect the ph? Should I replace it with driftwood or just remove it all and add more plants? I'm scared to use a buffering agent in such a small tank - seems like a recipe for disaster.

I can take a water sample into the LFS to have a test done tomorrow.

demonR6
Sep 4, 2012

There are too many stupid people in the world. I'm not saying we should kill them all or anything. Just take the warning labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.

Lipstick Apathy
How often are your water changes and does this happen every time? It could be that over the time between your water changes the pH level changes then you change the water knocking it out of whack. What is the pH of your water you are using for the water change. I use 5 gallon water containers and fill them a couple of days prior for example.

Fuckface the Hedgehog
Jun 12, 2007

Goodpart posted:

A quick question for people more knowledgeable than myself: I have a reasonably new black moor in a good-sized tank. Not overfed, not underfed, water's good (if a little soft on the pH, but very close to 7.0 and trending upwards), and he's energetic/playful. No signs of stress far as I can tell.

However, almost overnight, he's lost much of the matte appearance that he had, and is actually now tending towards bronze. I've had many, many fish in my old home and I've never seen a fish change colour so rapidly without them being sick well beforehand. This guy, though, isn't showing any signs of sickness. Gills are healthy, fins aren't clamped, no markings, no ammonia burns, good appetite, etc etc etc.

I'm going to take my water in for a test tomorrow just to make doubly sure, but last time I checked (Friday) it was totally fine. I've done a water change since then, and the only thing that would have changed was a shift in pH. It was around 7.5 before. The only thing I can think of is that there was a reasonably quick shift in pH from the water change. Id that's it, can I expect him to return to normal as the pH levels out a little? And more to the point: is he having a hard time of it in the tank at the moment? If so, what can I do to make things a little better for him?

I know black is a pretty unstable colour, but a change this rapid got me a little worried. I've found no solid answers in my searches so I'm hoping someone can help.

Yeah that's just colourshift. Keep your pH steady and enjoy your gold moor!

Extra Smooth Balls
Apr 13, 2005

unprofessional posted:

I did change over half the water - perhaps that's the reason for such a big swing? Only thing in it besides plants are a danio and 4 amano shrimp. Do test kits go bad? This one is an API Master test kit, and less than a year old. Would the big chunk of volcanic rock I have effect the ph? Should I replace it with driftwood or just remove it all and add more plants? I'm scared to use a buffering agent in such a small tank - seems like a recipe for disaster.

I can take a water sample into the LFS to have a test done tomorrow.

The what kind of volcanic rock is it?

unprofessional
Apr 26, 2007
All business.

demonR6 posted:

How often are your water changes and does this happen every time? It could be that over the time between your water changes the pH level changes then you change the water knocking it out of whack. What is the pH of your water you are using for the water change. I use 5 gallon water containers and fill them a couple of days prior for example.
I usually change about 25% of the tank every day. Been using "naturally filtered spring water," as per advice received here. Just tested it and got pH of 7.4. Just retested my tank water and got 7.4 as well. I'm thinking my 6.6 test was invalid since I had literally just added the new water? That would point to a pH rise over the weekend from 7.4 to 8.8, which I'm guessing is still too much of a rise to be happy with?

Sonic H
Dec 8, 2004

Me love you long time

Zaffy posted:

I think just for ease of moving I'd split them into smaller containers. How long do you expect them to be in transit?

Probably no more than an hour or two - moving the tank will take the longest as I'll have to drain it completely to get it out of the current place. Draining the water into a large bin and transferring the fish to that before then "decanting" them off for the move is my plan. That way they'll remain in the same water for as long as possible giving me chance to move the tank more readily.

What about the system rebuild? Moving a big bin of water isn't practical so they'd essentially be put into fresh water which isn't ideal as it won't have been cycled properly. I guess a few frequent water changes to start with is called for while the bacteria build back up. That said, the filer will remain wet so it *should* be ok as long as I acclimate them properly when rebuilding.

Sonic H
Dec 8, 2004

Me love you long time

unprofessional posted:

I usually change about 25% of the tank every day. Been using "naturally filtered spring water," as per advice received here. Just tested it and got pH of 7.4. Just retested my tank water and got 7.4 as well. I'm thinking my 6.6 test was invalid since I had literally just added the new water? That would point to a pH rise over the weekend from 7.4 to 8.8, which I'm guessing is still too much of a rise to be happy with?

7.4 to 8.8?! Sweet Jesus I'm surprised anything is left alive :O

I'm happy to be corrected, but a 25% change every day is quite a lot - unless the tank is minute and you have a lot of messy fish then once a week is plenty.

Goodpart
Jan 9, 2004

quarter circle forward punch
quarter circle forward punch
quarter circle forward punch
rip

Plotterboy posted:

Yeah that's just colourshift. Keep your pH steady and enjoy your gold moor!
Should I be alarmed by the speed at which he's changed? He's brightened by several shades since Sunday and almost entirely lost his velvety layer. Only the top of his body near the dorsal fins remain as they were, and the top portion of his eyes.

Fuckface the Hedgehog
Jun 12, 2007

Goodpart posted:

Should I be alarmed by the speed at which he's changed? He's brightened by several shades since Sunday and almost entirely lost his velvety layer. Only the top of his body near the dorsal fins remain as they were, and the top portion of his eyes.

If you want to be. It does happen rather quickly, especially in mass farmed Petco sold goldfish. Honestly as long as the fish isn't stressed its not really a problem.

w00tmonger
Mar 9, 2011

F-F-FRIDAY NIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS

So snails and planted fish tanks? I have my little planted 8 gallon going with a couple otos and some shrimp. And it was mentioned that I would want to look into an assassin small at some point.

I only have a couple snails in the tank right now, and I've heard mixed things any their benefit to the tank ecology. Should I be holding off on an assassin? Should I be encouraging snail growth somehow?

Extra Smooth Balls
Apr 13, 2005

w00tmonger posted:

So snails and planted fish tanks? I have my little planted 8 gallon going with a couple otos and some shrimp. And it was mentioned that I would want to look into an assassin small at some point.

I only have a couple snails in the tank right now, and I've heard mixed things any their benefit to the tank ecology. Should I be holding off on an assassin? Should I be encouraging snail growth somehow?

I have a fair amount of snails in my planted tank and I think they're pretty handy to have around. They eat any dead leaves and do a good job keeping algae off the glass. As long as you don't massively overfeed the tank you won't get billions and it's easy enough to bait them out.

Never had an assassin but I think it might starve if you don't have many snails.

demonR6
Sep 4, 2012

There are too many stupid people in the world. I'm not saying we should kill them all or anything. Just take the warning labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.

Lipstick Apathy

w00tmonger posted:

So snails and planted fish tanks? I have my little planted 8 gallon going with a couple otos and some shrimp. And it was mentioned that I would want to look into an assassin small at some point.

I only have a couple snails in the tank right now, and I've heard mixed things any their benefit to the tank ecology. Should I be holding off on an assassin? Should I be encouraging snail growth somehow?

First off why do you need an assassin snail in your tank? Usually people add them when they have an out of control problem with other snails considered pests like bladder or pond snails. Normally you would not add them though just to have them.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Sonic H posted:

Question for the experts:

It's likely I'll need to move house very soon and I have a smaller 54 l quarantine tank and a large 240 l main tank. The main tank has about 70 fish in of varying sizes and types. The question is, is it best to take them out and put them into smaller containers with similar other fish (e.g. put my Gouramis together, my tetras together etc.) or to bundle them all into one container?

There's no seriously aggressive finsh in there, but as they have lots of room right now, I don't want to antagonise them unnecessarily and cause issues.

Five Gallon buckets are your best friend. About 40lb each when full, and if you use a few you can split the fish up to keep too much waste from building up while they're in there. You can also use one for water + filter media to help keep it from going bad. Don't feed for a few days before so as to also reduce waste buildup. The lids keep the fish from jumping out, and keep the buckets darker to reduce stress.

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w00tmonger
Mar 9, 2011

F-F-FRIDAY NIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS

I don't have a snail problem right now, but when I went through this planted tank seminar it kept coming up.

Being a little 8 gallon, should I literally just be rocking whatever junk snails are in there right now? or should I be going out and getting some from the store? This is my first planted tank, so if there are any beginners mistakes that'll catch me up then I would love to know about them ahead of time.

Right now its literally just Shrimp and Otos, so I have a lot of room to work with. I think it would be sweet to have a predator/prey thing going on with assassin snails but I imagine that would be hard to balance long term.

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