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My copy of Zappa's Roxy By Proxy arrived today. It's both an exciting and somewhat disappointing experience. It's exciting because - well, the '74 lineup of the Mothers was amazing, and hearing them play is a gas. But he disappointment is the very conspicuous absence of Montana (though Ruth and Tom play a bit of the vocal line in the middle of Dupree's Paradise..., Pygmy Twylyte, More Trouble Every Day, and Be-Bop Tango, and when you realize just how much of Roxy & Elsewhere was studio overdubs. Roxy By Proxy is completely raw - the live show with no touch-ups - and they did use the opposite night's recordings from the ones on R&E. So at first, the songs on RBP seem like demo versions. I've only listened to it one time through, but I can tell already that this is going to be one of those albums that I'll pick up on more and more things each time I listen to it. The tracklist: "Carved In The Rock" (band intros, and Inca Roads intro) Inca Roads Penguin In Bondage T'Mershi Duween Dog Breath Variations/Uncle Meat RDNZL Village of the Sun Echidna's Arf (Of You) Don't You Ever Wash That Thing Cheepnis - Percussion Cheepnis Dupree's Paradise King Kong/Chunga's Revenge/Mr Green Genes Prog Doctor fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 06:39
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Declan MacManus posted:I'm just trying to think of the coked out executive that's like "you gotta bring the marketing power and cultural legacy of a band that hasn't had a top album in like eight years, you owe it to people" I always considered this song fairly progressive, in that they'd never done anything like it before. Plus, I defy anyone with ears not to tap their foot to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M9JE9R9ld4
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Mar 18, 2014 19:39
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FrankenVader posted:I always considered this song fairly progressive, in that they'd never done anything like it before.  those special effects!
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Mar 18, 2014 19:52
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I dunno if you guys have talked about Eyal Amir/Project RnL but he happens to be pretty adept at arranging vocals (I assume he does the arrangements) and generally writing catchy poo poo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKckKBYmN_4
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Mar 22, 2014 21:24
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Well I got Going For The One at last. It's mostly okay I guess. But none of its tracks really have an impact except Awaken. I feel like it's only worth having for Awaken. I mean the tracks are nice but they're just nothing special, while Awaken is the most specialiest  prog track ever made. Really weird. It's hard not to love though because Yes. When I grow up I want to be able to sing like Jon. 
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Mar 25, 2014 00:26
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Nice to see all the Awaken love in here! I never really want to see/hear Yes live any more though; whatever adaptation they play live tends not to match the sound and feel of the original studio version that I love so much. I listened to their albums as a kid over 15 years ago, and every year or so dip back in for a full length listen. It's like a favourite book I reread with familiar characters and settings.
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Mar 25, 2014 19:30
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It's unfortunate that Yes isn't really that great at bringing the energy live. It's not unexpected, they're all like 70, but they used to kill live (Yessongs is fantastic)
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Mar 25, 2014 20:48
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Declan MacManus posted:It's unfortunate that Yes isn't really that great at bringing the energy live. It's not unexpected, they're all like 70, but they used to kill live (Yessongs is fantastic) I saw them in the early 2000's, on the tour when they played all the long-form stuff (CTTE, Gates of delerium, etc..), and they were ok. Nothing amazing, but I kinda set the bar low for summer shed classic rock cash in tours anyways. Although I did see the moody blues once in a summer shed on a cash-in nostalgia tour and they slayed, so who knows. Maybe ancient prog bands are a coinflip.
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Mar 25, 2014 20:59
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Declan MacManus posted:It's not unexpected, they're all like 70 The more pertinent factor is that Jon is missing. And he's missing on grounds of animosity. So it's not that the band's old, it's that they're bitter. Yes is about good energy. Hard to keep energy positive when you've kicked someone out because you're impatient.
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Mar 25, 2014 21:47
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BigFactory posted:I saw them in the early 2000's, on the tour when they played all the long-form stuff (CTTE, Gates of delerium, etc..), and they were ok. Nothing amazing, but I kinda set the bar low for summer shed classic rock cash in tours anyways. Although I did see the moody blues once in a summer shed on a cash-in nostalgia tour and they slayed, so who knows. Maybe ancient prog bands are a coinflip. I saw the Moodies in 1998, my first actual rock concert. They needed a session drummer to prop up Graeme for the faster songs, but other than that, they were massive. And, since this show was quite literally in a cow pasture in the middle of nowhere and it was midsummer in rural New York state, there were bugs everywhere going OH MY GOD LIGHTBUUUUUUULBS. Ray Thomas got one in his flute during the big solo in Legend of a Mind. (The rest of the band abandoned the stage for it, returning with cans of bug bomb that were passed around from musician to musician (including the backing dancers basically doing the swim and spraying themselves at the same time, troupers to the end.)
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Mar 26, 2014 00:44
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Declan MacManus posted:It's unfortunate that Yes isn't really that great at bringing the energy live. It's not unexpected, they're all like 70, but they used to kill live (Yessongs is fantastic) I blame the obsession with everything needing to be in perfect tempo. Back in the 70s bands rarely ever played to a click track, and never did live. I'm not sure if they're playing to some sort of click nowadays, but sometimes it sounds like it. Back in the 70s a band like Yes could go nuts on stage. Sure it would get a little messy at times, but the energy was there. Nowadays it seems like every band has to play to a click of some sort. On good nights they can sound just like they did on the record, but it doesn't have that same frantic energy of 1973-74 Yes. Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 01:11
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I was introduced to Awaken in the best way (for someone who was too young to hear it when it first came out). It was the 1991 Union tour, on my birthday, and the crowd was divided between ABWH fans and Trevor Rabin Yes fans. You could tell the way the applause was going, and the Cinema half of the band was getting a slightly louder reaction from the crowd. You had lots of AOR rock fans who just wanted to hear "Owner of a Lonely Heart", ABWH hippies, and young folks dispersed between the two. I was part of the teen ABWH fans who was getting into "classic rock" ever since Pink Floyd's 1987 return that starting infiltrating those concerts. Even tho I had heard tracks from Fragile as a little kid, and remember "Owner..." being played TO DEATH on MTV, ABWH was my real initiation to Yes thanks to the pay per view special I tuned in for their tour (the one on dvd now). Back to the Union show: this one song, around 12 minutes long came on near the end of the show, and had the entire reserve section, lawn area, people wandering around...everyone was collectively blown away. During the organ and harp slow instrumental section, the lights were flickering us in the face like someone casting a spell on the entire crowd. I can't even describe it. It was the only song I didn't recognize. Thankfully this old hippie told me on the shuttle bus back to the parking lot that it was "Awaken". I was glad to see it on the YesYears box set. All 8 members of the band were giving their all, and was the one song where it wasn't a competition, but a true band working together. The applause seemed to go on forever. I think it converted many people because when the Talk tour happened, and I found out that Howe, Bruford, and Wakeman were not in the band anymore, I wasn't interested. I hated the production, and even tho it was more prog than anything Rabin had done with the band, they ended up playing to empty arenas because so many people were exposed to BWH. Rabin realized this and quit Yes. I was ok with this, and was ready to see Bruford on King Crimson's Thrak tour (in my top 5 best shows of all time).
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Mar 26, 2014 17:25
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In Bruford's autobiography (this is a great read by the way) he mentions that the crowd noise on the Union tour was the loudest thing he had ever experienced.
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Mar 26, 2014 21:58
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Iucounu posted:In Bruford's autobiography (this is a great read by the way) he mentions that the crowd noise on the Union tour was the loudest thing he had ever experienced. I have a signed copy. Actually, it was the ABWH tour when it came to Philly that was the loudest sound he had heard. He compared it to a jet engine before take off. Philly has always been a Yes town (prog in general, and the Grateful Dead), and here they were playing an 18-20k capacity arena going nuts under their own names bunched together to sound like law firm. Bruford and Howe were actually upset that ABWH didn't continue, even tho Howe and Wakeman hated each other. So Anderson and Wakeman are the first to jump on the Yes reunion gravy train. Howe didn't want to play second fiddle to Rabin, and Bruford vs White? Yeah...I'd like to hear White play "Fracture". He wouldn't give Bruford time to shine except for Heart of the Sunrise, which Bruford co wrote.
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Mar 27, 2014 03:29
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Gimmedaroot posted:I was ok with this, and was ready to see Bruford on King Crimson's Thrak tour (in my top 5 best shows of all time). A friend of mine took acid and saw one of the double-trio tours. I keep trying to get him to expand but he doesn't remember anything.
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Mar 27, 2014 13:19
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Noise Machine posted:A friend of mine took acid and saw one of the double-trio tours. I keep trying to get him to expand but he doesn't remember anything. That's too bad. I was most stoned than I had ever been in my life (which at the time is saying something...think Smokey on "Friday"). But my seat was second row center, and it was one of the loudest shows I've ever been too as well. I understood what the original KC lineup meant when they talked of their first US show back in 1969. The audience was tripping and expecting "King Curtis" and some happy soul music. KC opened with Schizoid Man, and Fripp got the impression of the audience being "crushed". I felt like that myself. There were two rows of musicians on the stage: Back (elevated) row: Pat M. Fripp Bruford Front row: Gunn Belew Levin New rhythm section to our left, old rhythm section on the right, Belew front, Fripp sitting what seemed very high and in the dark. The first two rows of seats were those of us in our teens and twenties. We baffled the older folks sitting behind us who kept asking questions of how we had even heard of King Crimson. The California Guitar Trio opened, and were amazing. It was in a theater, so the acoustics were perfect. The light show was mesmerizing. At the end, Belew and Fripp were laughing onstage after taking their bows, and someone from the audience threw a shoe onstage before they left. Bruford played drums and percussion just like on the Yes tour, with Pat taking the very basic rhythms. The difference was Bruford's enthusiastic playing in Crimson, where he just went thru the motions for Yes (very well tho). I was so glad they put out that same show from the soundboard tapes for sale on Fripp's website. It sounds better than I remember. Crowd was very weird, to say the least. Hippies, alt rock kids, some annoying Italians in dark suits from NYC heckling the audience, cool but swanky jazz folk, uptight but swankier people in tuxedos, and guys who looked like truck drivers smoking weed.
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Mar 27, 2014 15:38
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Gimmedaroot posted:It was in a theater, so the acoustics were perfect. The light show was mesmerizing. At the end, Belew and Fripp were laughing onstage after taking their bows, and someone from the audience threw a shoe onstage before they left. You really must have been stoned if you believe you saw Robert Fripp expressing some kind of emotion.
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Mar 27, 2014 16:00
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Nobody Interesting posted:You really must have been stoned if you believe you saw Robert Fripp expressing some kind of emotion. Next he'll claim Robert stood up.
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Mar 27, 2014 16:08
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Rust Martialis posted:Next he'll claim Robert stood up.
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Mar 27, 2014 19:01
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Nobody Interesting posted:You really must have been stoned if you believe you saw Robert Fripp expressing some kind of emotion. You must not be a fan to think that the man who co-founded "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp" has no emotion, let alone a sense of humor. The dude is hilarious. He just doesn't act like, say, Sebastian Bach-rock dude type.  ^^^^SMILING^^^^ Gimmedaroot fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 02:21
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Misogynist posted:How could you even tell with his rig directly between him and the audience? That was in 2008. I was lucky enough to be on the far right side of the Nokia Theater in NYC on that tour, and could see him sitting behind the gear, and HE WAS SMILING at Belew. I felt bad for the middle and left sections because he was a hoot. In 1995, he wanted to play Lollapalooza and was reaching out everywhere he could. They were on the HORDE tour and frightened the jam band hippie crowd, which he gets bonus points for doing. 
Gimmedaroot fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 02:24
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Gimmedaroot posted:You must not be a fan to think that the man who co-founded "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp" has no emotion, let alone a sense of humor. The dude is hilarious. He just doesn't act like, say, Sebastian Bach-rock dude type. Robert Fripp is a goofy dude who loves his wife a whole bunch and just happens to make intensely serious and dark music in a band where he is more or less a dictator.
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Mar 28, 2014 02:30
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Re-posting this for good measure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64VGyoIyBgc
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Mar 28, 2014 02:59
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Gimmedaroot posted:I was introduced to Awaken in the best way (for someone who was too young to hear it when it first came out). My sister saw the Union concert, but I was too young and missed out  . Her BF was a big Yes fan and had seen ABWH in 1990 and said it was the best concert he had ever seen. I remember him saying that he liked the ABWH concert better because they played CTTE, but honestly, I think I would have preferred to see the Union lineup play Awaken. Going by the version of CTTE on An Evening of Yes Music Plus, I was a little disappointed. It didn't have the same energy of the Yessongs version. Mind you, I never heard a version with Tony Levin on bass so that might have been different. Awaken, though, is a powerful piece, and version on Keys to Ascension shows that Yes was still able to do a killer version of it live late in the 1990s.Union really was a missed opportunity. If those guys could have gotten their act together it would have been a great album. The songwriting was really strong on the album, but it feels like the whole thing was rushed and the production was weak. If they trimmed some of the weaker tracks and developed the good tracks more (I Would of Waited Forever and Miracle of Life could have been turned into big prog epics if they worked on it a bit) I think the album could have been great. The concert was the best part though, and it's a shame that lineup only lasted one tour. Yes as an 8 piece live act really does work.
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Mar 28, 2014 03:13
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Gimmedaroot posted:
The picture has obviously been tampered with.
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Mar 28, 2014 03:17
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Gimmedaroot posted:That's too bad. I was most stoned than I had ever been in my life (which at the time is saying something...think Smokey on "Friday"). But my seat was second row center, and it was one of the loudest shows I've ever been too as well. I understood what the original KC lineup meant when they talked of their first US show back in 1969. The audience was tripping and expecting "King Curtis" and some happy soul music. KC opened with Schizoid Man, and Fripp got the impression of the audience being "crushed". I felt like that myself. I saw the double trio too, not quite front row but pretty close. I remember seeing Robert sitting in the back, barely noticeable. It was really quite cool. I was a little disappointed that they didn't play any of the old stuff (the only songs from the 70s they played was Red and Lark's Tongues in Aspic part 2), but it kicked rear end anyway. At the time I loved the Thrak album, but wasn't too hot on the 80s stuff (which I only knew of from the sleepless: the concise king crimson compilation). That concert changed my mind. Now Discipline is one of my favorite albums. It was a very loud concert, I remember my ears ringing afterwards. Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 03:30
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Gianthogweed posted:I saw the double trio too, not quite front row but pretty close. I remember seeing Robert sitting in the back, barely noticeable. It was really quite cool. I was a little disappointed that they didn't play any of the old stuff (the only songs from the 70s they played was Red and Lark's Tongues in Aspic part 2), but it kicked rear end anyway. At the time I loved the Thrak album, but wasn't too hot on the 80s stuff (which I only knew of from the concise king crimson compilation). That concert changed my mind. Now Discipline is one of my favorite albums. It was a very loud concert, I remember my ears ringing afterwards. I started with Discipline, then completed the 80s trilogy and my first fall semester of college, they were releasing the "Definitive Edition" cds. I started with Court, and went in order. I couldn't believe this band wasn't big. They battle Pink Floyd as my favorite band. A year after that, I got to see the League of Crafty Guitarists. Fripp liked our crowd so much, he invited us to stay for the second show for free (with a hand wave, he did request that I sit down because I was applauding so enthusiastically). I really wanted to take those courses. I could've been Trey Gunn!!! But college came first. As for Yes, that ABWH live concert was my introduction, and I was jumping up and down recognizing songs from when I was a toddler. I couldn't believe that was the same Yes that MTV played constantly until our eyes bled. I noticed the music was spacey and ethereal; and wondered if they had anything to do with Pink Floyd and the newly discovered KC. That was how I made the prog connection. ABWH seemed to really be enjoying themselves on that tour. The Union tour was miserable for Bruford and Howe. But I agree: a true 8 man Yes band that wrote and worked together would have been something. According to Wakeman, although it was his favorite tour, he learned that the plan all along was to get Jon back into Yes, and dump BWH. Typical Yes dirty business/politics. Another ABWH tour would've been awesome with a bigger budget. Imagine the Roger Dean stage they could have had! Not too crazy about the 2003 painted inflatables...
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Mar 28, 2014 04:59
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Gimmedaroot posted:I started with Discipline, then completed the 80s trilogy and my first fall semester of college, they were releasing the "Definitive Edition" cds. I started with Court, and went in order. I couldn't believe this band wasn't big. They battle Pink Floyd as my favorite band. A year after that, I got to see the League of Crafty Guitarists. Fripp liked our crowd so much, he invited us to stay for the second show for free (with a hand wave, he did request that I sit down because I was applauding so enthusiastically). I really wanted to take those courses. I could've been Trey Gunn!!! But college came first. I remember it was up in the air for awhile. The ABWH lineup released that symphonic album in 1993 so it seemed like there was a still a chance of ABWH coming back. For awhile it seemed like there were two Yeses: YesEast (ABWH) and YesWest (Rabin lineup). My sister's boyfriend called it YesGood and YesBad. Jon was the only member in both lineups, but then there was talk of Wakeman and Rabin working together. Perhaps another Union album? Nope, we got the 80s lineup with Talk. I remember my sister's BF was pissed because he hated the Rabin lineup and wanted to see ABWH again. He refused to buy Talk and it wasn't until many years later that I bought the album. I have to admit that I actually liked it quite a bit, but I actually like Rabin's guitar and songwriting style. I don't much like his voice though, he sounds too much like a generic 80s hard rock singer. After that, Talk sort of fizzled out and Yes went back to their classic AWWHS lineup with Keys to Ascension. I remember this being a dream come true ... until Open Your Eyes came out. The Ladder and Magnification were good though. Yes is such a strange band, it's the only band I know that had two versions of itself competing with each other. The fans were divided too. It was kind of like rooting for your favorite sports team. That Union concert must have been a bit like a Yankees/Redsox game. Nowadays no one really cares and the band's lost a lot of their popularity but in the early 90s Yes was really popular and the fan-base was at war with each other. Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 05:36
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  I still really want to get all those 5.1 mixes of the KC stuff but the exchange rate for GBP is terrible now  should've done it a year ago
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Mar 28, 2014 10:09
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Misogynist posted:How could you even tell with his rig directly between him and the audience? The band would have fainted.
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Mar 28, 2014 13:06
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Gianthogweed posted:I remember it was up in the air for awhile. The ABWH lineup released that symphonic album in 1993 so it seemed like there was a still a chance of ABWH coming back. For awhile it seemed like there were two Yeses: YesEast (ABWH) and YesWest (Rabin lineup). My sister's boyfriend called it YesGood and YesBad. Jon was the only member in both lineups, but then there was talk of Wakeman and Rabin working together. Perhaps another Union album? Nope, we got the 80s lineup with Talk. I remember my sister's BF was pissed because he hated the Rabin lineup and wanted to see ABWH again. He refused to buy Talk and it wasn't until many years later that I bought the album. I have to admit that I actually liked it quite a bit, but I actually like Rabin's guitar and songwriting style. I don't much like his voice though, he sounds too much like a generic 80s hard rock singer. After that, Talk sort of fizzled out and Yes went back to their classic AWWHS lineup with Keys to Ascension. I remember this being a dream come true ... until Open Your Eyes came out. The Ladder and Magnification were good though. Yes is such a strange band, it's the only band I know that had two versions of itself competing with each other. The fans were divided too. It was kind of like rooting for your favorite sports team. That Union concert must have been a bit like a Yankees/Redsox game. Nowadays no one really cares and the band's lost a lot of their popularity but in the early 90s Yes was really popular and the fan-base was at war with each other. It actually killed their momentum from which they never recovered after Union. When the Talk tour flopped massively, they knew what people wanted. I listened to it once, sounded generic 80s hard rock like you said. I wasn't interested in them anymore and thought the Keys studio material was bland. Funny how I think the Union tracks that everyone hates so much are more listenable to me than "Talk" and "Keys to the Ascension". Wakeman apparently got into it again with the band (most likely Steve Howe and/or Squire) and only did those shows that they recorded for Keys. They toured without him and got that Igor guy to take Wakeman's place, until he was found molesting a security guard. I never listened to The Ladder, or Open Your Eyes. I gave Symphonic Yes a view when the dvd came out because I heard it was good, and it turned out nicely with Tom Brislen on keyboards. The only arena show I remember them returning to was when Wakeman rejoined the band, and they shot that dvd in Boston. With Anderson's voice getting, in Wakeman's words, "serious serious damage" to his vocal chords from the non stop touring of 2002-2004. That was pretty cruel of the guys to push him like that, then replace him when he was recovering. I did manage to catch the tour with Benoit David since it was turning more into the Drama lineup, with Trevor Horn producing that last album. Even tho ABWHS Yes is my fav, I actually like Drama a lot. I gave them a chance so I could hear Machine Messiah, Tempus Fugit, and Fly From Here live. This time I saw them at the House of Blues, which was bizarre. But when they sacked Benoit for the same reason they toured without Jon, I was finished. I really think their poor business decisions killed people's interest in the band time after time. And to Strap On Revenge: GET THEM! The KC 5.1 mixes are amazing. I was disappointed with Pink Floyd's surround mixes being so conservative, and this from a band that tours (including Waters solo) with a quad setup since the Syd Barrett Azimuth Co-ordinator days. I forgot to mention that at the 2008 KC show in NYC, there were speakers on the side and back for surround, and Fripp's Soundscapes before the show floated around the audience. It wasn't as loud as the 1995 Thrak tour. I hope they stick with the surround setup for the next tour. Three live drums in surround???
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Mar 28, 2014 19:56
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Gimmedaroot posted:That was in 2008. I was lucky enough to be on the far right side of the Nokia Theater in NYC on that tour, and could see him sitting behind the gear, and HE WAS SMILING at Belew. I felt bad for the middle and left sections because he was a hoot.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:05
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Are there any great American prog rock bands? It just dawned on me that I can't think of any. The genre's heyday was almost entirely British. Canada has Rush. Germany and Italy have some stuff. We have progressive metal down pretty well, but besides like, Tool (who aren't really the same style), are there any notable bands to come out of the States? Just curious.
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Mar 31, 2014 02:35
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Henchman of Santa posted:Are there any great American prog rock bands? It just dawned on me that I can't think of any. The genre's heyday was almost entirely British. Canada has Rush. Germany and Italy have some stuff. We have progressive metal down pretty well, but besides like, Tool (who aren't really the same style), are there any notable bands to come out of the States? Just curious. Echolyn is pretty great, try them out.
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Mar 31, 2014 02:49
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Camel and Thinking Plague come to mind and The Mars Volta are good too
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Mar 31, 2014 02:50
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Henchman of Santa posted:Are there any great American prog rock bands? It just dawned on me that I can't think of any. The genre's heyday was almost entirely British. Canada has Rush. Germany and Italy have some stuff. We have progressive metal down pretty well, but besides like, Tool (who aren't really the same style), are there any notable bands to come out of the States? Just curious. Does Mahavishnu count, or are they more jazz?
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Mar 31, 2014 02:56
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Gamma Nerd posted:Camel and Thinking Plague come to mind Whaaat i always assumed Camel were British!
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Mar 31, 2014 02:56
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King crimson's 2000's lineup was 3/4 American.
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Mar 31, 2014 02:59
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Where on earth did you get the idea that Camel were American? (Could be worse—up until a couple years ago, I thought Jimi Hendrix was British.)
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Mar 31, 2014 03:01
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Rollersnake posted:Where on earth did you get the idea that Camel were American? RYM lists them in the USA charts because they're based here now. Whoops.
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Mar 31, 2014 03:04
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