|
 This movie's still loving incredible. e: smaller because timg doesn't like the spoiler tag.
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 01:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 17:07 |
|
|
So I guess people are watching the blu-ray already. I really can't wait to get the blu-ray. I've been dying to see this movie. I need to avoid Tumblr because there are so many spoilers showing up now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 02:21
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:So I guess people are watching the blu-ray already. I really can't wait to get the blu-ray. I've been dying to see this movie. I need to avoid Tumblr because there are so many spoilers showing up now. How are people watching it already?? Aaagh waiting is hard. At least I've managed to avoid all spoilers except for when I preordered the Nagisa Nendoroid. If only I could've ordered it without looking at any pictures. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 03:01
|
|
|
Dunno, but I'm watching the reactions (via IRC) of several first-time watchers and it's very amusing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 03:03
|
|
|
HondaCivet posted:How are people watching it already?? Aaagh waiting is hard. Raw BD-rip with the included subtitle track is out. Usually rips can be this early for bigger releases as some places ship before the release date.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 03:27
|
|
|
Well I'll be damned, the series is up on Netflix now, looks like both the subbed and dubbed versions too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 06:26
|
|
|
a kitten posted:Well I'll be damned, the series is up on Netflix now, looks like both the subbed and dubbed versions too. I like how they put it in the "ominous" category with American Horror Story, and Dexter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 06:42
|
|
|
a kitten posted:Well I'll be damned, the series is up on Netflix now, looks like both the subbed and dubbed versions too. Redcrimson posted:I like how they put it in the "ominous" category with American Horror Story, and Dexter. Imagine some random putting it on from that category. Beyond the very first part of Episode 1, it takes what, three episodes to really convince the audience of what they're going to get?
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 07:31
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:You're mine, Madoka! Mine mine mine! I like Sayaka's English VA  .
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 07:38
|
|
|
Hommando posted:I like Sayaka's English VA Go play DUST, Hommando.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 07:38
|
|
|
It's great that the show is getting more exposure by being on other platforms, but netflix isn't great. They mess up a lot of the shows they put on by cropping part of the frame, having bad bit rate or by destroying the sound. On top of that, it's awful for anime because netflix subtitles are some of the worst I've ever seen. I'd say the best way to watch this show would be crunchyroll, if you're not willing to spring the premium cost for the blu-rays. Still though, at least the show is easier to access to people who just find it on netflix.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 09:39
|
|
|
Redcrimson posted:I like how they put it in the "ominous" category with American Horror Story, and Dexter. That's hilarious and awesome. Some thoughts on the BD: The BD's English translation plays up Homura being love crazy a bit. The AI YO line changes to "My Soul Gem was not stained with curses, blah blah it's love". The visuals also play up Homu's crazy eyes around Madoka. They changed the signpost to Welcome to Sweets Countory (sic), playing up the Nutcracker imagery. It is also more heavily visually implied that Homura basically just made her Witch Barrier all-encompassing. They use demon instead of devil, possibly playing off of her being the Final Boss once Wraiths are gone. The post credits scene reads more "descent into madness" than "suicide attempt" now, but it's less visually jumbled. A despondent Homu thinks Madoka is coming for her, sees it's Coobs, kicks it's rear end and dances over the corpse, then flings herself off a cliff. They add a lot of little touch ups to places that help explain what's going on better. One of the interesting things is they play up all the junk in Homura's barrier, then graffiti it on her wall in the new world. She's carrying so much baggage.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 22:49
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:That's hilarious and awesome. This makes me wish we had a good source for the theatrical release for comparison.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 22:53
|
|
|
I didn't realize this was a trilogy. I was thoroughly expecting there to be a fourth.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
Xelkelvos posted:I didn't realize this was a trilogy. I was thoroughly expecting there to be a fourth. I am sure they are already getting the 2nd trilogy worked out. Madoka is printing money.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 23:41
|
|
|
I thought a second t.v. series was confirmed? That is what a friend told me, so I have no other source. I watched Rebellion, and I really liked it. Afterwards I went and read the large Reddit post that breaks down what is wrong with the film. I agree with a lot of it, not all of it, but it brings up some good points. I still really enjoyed the movie though, and more or less agree with the 3rd theory mentioned in the conclusion; that the film is over indulgent fanservice and a love letter to fans.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 00:43
|
|
|
Well, it's not getting any love from me. I can't even enjoy the TV series anymore, because I just get mad and start crying about how the stupid movie ruins everything the series is about. Thanks for making me hate my favorite anime, Shinbo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 04:20
|
|
|
I on the other hand found great joy in seeing just how far the movie went to twist and corrupt the themes of the original series. Put a twist of many of the things we initially took for granted.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 04:30
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:That's hilarious and awesome. I'm almost positive this translation is identical to the one used in the theatrical release. It left a pretty big impression on me because it made half the theater erupt into cheers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 05:03
|
|
|
MagicalDuck posted:Well, it's not getting any love from me. I can't even enjoy the TV series anymore, because I just get mad and start crying about how the stupid movie ruins everything the series is about. Thanks for making me hate my favorite anime, Shinbo. To be fair to the man, at least he also separates the movies from the TV universe: quote:Shinbou: I think of the TV series as complete in and of itself, and that it doesn’t need a continuation. Beginnings and Eternal were necessary to Rebellion, and my personal interpretation is that Rebellion continues from these two movies rather than the TV series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 05:49
|
|
|
MagicalDuck posted:Well, it's not getting any love from me. I can't even enjoy the TV series anymore, because I just get mad and start crying about how the stupid movie ruins everything the series is about. Thanks for making me hate my favorite anime, Shinbo. I'm still not really sure how I feel about the movie. I'm okay with everything up until that rear end pull ending. They missed a chance to give the series a satisfying ending, instead choosing to inject what seems to be pointless conflict. I'm hoping the inevitable continuation is compelling enough to justify what happened in the third movie. Whether or not I hate it all depends on what comes next. wielder posted:To be fair to the man, at least he also separates the movies from the TV universe: quote:Shinbou: I think of the TV series as complete in and of itself, and that it doesn’t need a continuation. Beginnings and Eternal were necessary to Rebellion, and my personal interpretation is that Rebellion continues from these two movies rather than the TV series. I cannot see that as anything other than a cop-out. It does not make me feel any better. Hommando fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 06:11
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:I still really enjoyed the movie though, and more or less agree with the 3rd theory mentioned in the conclusion; that the film is over indulgent fanservice and a love letter to fans. I completely disagree; if the movie hadn't had any character development, or if it had returned to pretty much the status quo, then I could see people arguing that it was just fanservice and a love letter. As it is, it did pretty much the opposite. I'm personally of the opinion that anyone saying it "ruined" the series or "didn't need to exist" probably just hates change. Or they bought into what the "fandom" was like before Rebellion released and...again, hate change. And don't get me started on the fools that claim everything that happened was out of character.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 06:30
|
|
|
I think that the movie is amazing from a production standpoint. From animation, sound design, to music. I enjoyed it a lot just based on those things, as I'm a big fan of pretty pictures and sound. However I felt that a large portion of the movie taking place in a labyrinth was too much. The visuals for them are great, but I don't think they hold up well for that long. I just really wanted it to get back to the primary art style. I also felt that there's too much going on, and I got visual overload from them. The pacing wasn't great, the movie felt like three hours, when it was only two. Time didn't really fly by, this movie had a lot of padding (too many establishing shots, departure shots). It felt like you could cut about 20 minutes off and not have missed anything. The beginning felt really pointless, they didn't need to lead on the audience that long. We get it, there's something wrong with this world they're in, let's move on. Aside from that, I felt that the progression of Homura turning into "evil" felt really forced. It makes sense, and I understand the motivation. However it lacked build-up and didn't feel organic at all. My brother agreed with me on all these points as well, especially the part about Homura. Overall I still enjoyed the movie based on production values and some of the neat ideas it explored. I just had a problem with how they were presented, and the movie taking way too long to do it. Regardless of this, they should have left it alone, as the conclusion was already extremely good. It's easy enough to pretend it's not the official conclusion, but because it exists, now it's hard to ignore. I don't mean to be insulting to the writers, as I'm sure this was difficult to write, and for what it is, it's well written... but the whole movie is a lot like a fanfiction. If you were to look at the events without all the presentation and production values, and read a novelized version, it'd sound like something a fanfiction writer would come up with. That's just my opinion, I'm not sure if anyone agrees with what I said or not.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 06:49
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:I completely disagree; if the movie hadn't had any character development, or if it had returned to pretty much the status quo, then I could see people arguing that it was just fanservice and a love letter. As it is, it did pretty much the opposite. Well I don't think anything was out of character or that there was no character development. There was a good story there, but the movie still had lots of examples of catering to fans and the first half of the movie felt like it tried to work the story around how much it could reference fan favorite moments from the series. And really you could argue that the story is meant to be meta as gently caress because this is all in Homura's head. I said come in! fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 06:59
|
|
|
I remember back when I saw the movie in theaters feeling that the ending came out of loving nowhere walking out of the theater but on the way home I was trying to picture how it got to that point and changed my opinion of it. It doesn't really feel out of character to me after I thought about it. Overall I really like the ending.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 07:15
|
|
|
Hommando posted:I'm hoping the inevitable continuation is compelling enough to justify what happened in the third movie. Whether or not I hate it all depends on what comes next. Personally, I wouldn't speak of outright "hate" in my case...but I do want to see them actually put this turn of events to good use. It's something that definitely risks being remembered as just a dead-end extension if nothing else ever comes out. quote:I cannot see that as anything other than a cop-out. It does not make me feel any better. Well, there's nothing anyone else can do about that. I just think it's a reasonable distinction that some/many fans will appreciate. wielder fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 07:19
|
|
|
wielder posted:Personally, I wouldn't speak of outright "hate" in my case...but I do want to see them actually put this turn of events to good use. This franchise is a cash-cow to a scale that hasn't been seen in years. There is a 0% chance that they just leave the story here as is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 07:26
|
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:This franchise is a cash-cow to a scale that hasn't been seen in years. Yes, I realize that's what is 99% most likely to happen, at least unless an act of god intervenes. But there's always a chance they might decide to milk the cow by making other spin-offs or whatever else for a while. Which is what could make things feel that way as long as said period ostensibly lasts. wielder fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 07:33
|
|
|
(Quotes from Rebellion now that the blu-ray is out) [Sayaka speaking privately with Homura about whose witch barrier they could be trapped in] Sayaka: "Is the heart that wished for this so sinful that it needs to be destroyed? ....They are the final forms of us magical girls, as you said. I can't help but sympathize." [Upon seeing Homura's Witch] Sayaka: "Despite her appearance, she's the most hurt." [Evoking their Witches] Sayaka and Nagisa: "We were once bringers of hope, who despaired and spread our curses. Now we are those guided by the Law of the Cycle to break free from the chains of destiny binding this world." [Homura's apotheosis] Homura: "To handle all the curses that have spread around our world, you Incubators are now necessary for us. So you'll be staying to help... Incubator." [In Homura's new world] Sayaka: "You've broken off a part of the Law of the Cycle, the power of salvation that was the hope of all the magical girls! ...What right do you have to do all of this?" Homura: "I am now an existence known as Evil--a being who disrupts providence and acts as an agitator for this world. It's quite natural that I upset the laws set down by a god, don't you think?" Sayaka: "Do you intend to destroy this universe?" Homura: "After all the wraiths have been destroyed, perhaps I will. When that time comes, I suppose I can be your enemy." [In Homura's new world] Madoka: "That's right... I should have a different form, a different role..." Homura: "It's all right. You are exactly what you truly are." Homura: "Do you consider stability and order more important than desire?" Madoka: "I guess I do think it's kind of bad to break rules because you feel like it." Homura: "Then I suppose someday, you will become my enemy as well. But I don't care. Because even then, I will continue to wish for a world in which you will be happy." [Madoka's wish from the original story] Madoka: "I wish that every Witch was erased before they were born. Every Witch in the universe. From the past and from the future as well. Everyone who has fought Witches until now, and all the Magical Girls who believed in hope—I don’t want them to suffer. I want them to keep their smiles to the end! And those rules that keep me from doing that—watch me break them. That is my wish." Just because Homura takes on the mantle of a devil and even calls herself evil, she isn't necessarily wrong for doing so. Witches are born from curses, but Sayaka implies that a Witch isn't something to destroy. In fact, Sayaka claims that as a witch, her purpose is to promote freedom. Is Homura, as a devil, really imprisoning them? The city of her new world doesn't bear the oppressive prison imagery of her labyrinth; it's open, free, and in bloom. Her familiars coexist peacefully with the world. She even makes preparations to deal with the Wraiths, which means Madoka's order still exists within this new cosmos. Homura calls herself an antagonist of providence, but what is providence? I think it's incredibly important that Homura tells Madoka, "You are exactly what you truly are." If you read this as "You already are your true self," then she's telling Madoka not to martyr herself in the pursuit of becoming Hope, because she already is, but in a human way. I really want to believe that splitting Madoka from her divine self is truly an act of goodwill and mercy. I have trouble swallowing the idea that Madoka's desire to throw everything away in the pursuit of becoming perfect is a good thing. It seems like an egotistical desire, just as much as Sayaka, Kyouko, or Homura's wishes were. But the strange thing to me is that Madoka herself seems to have transformed between the second and third movies. What is this about not wanting to break rules? The Madoka of the original story fought to allow girls the ability to strive for their desires; why is Homura now the one more closely aligned with this belief?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 07:57
|
|
|
The impression I got is Madoka is fine with breaking rules for a good reason. Homuras rule breaking only makes herself and Madoka happier and might have some dire consequences. Homura probably won't even care as long as Madoka can stay happy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 08:23
|
|
|
Cephas posted:But the strange thing to me is that Madoka herself seems to have transformed between the second and third movies. What is this about not wanting to break rules? The Madoka of the original story fought to allow girls the ability to strive for their desires; why is Homura now the one more closely aligned with this belief? I had figured that Madoka from the movie, being uninhibited by the memory and burden of being forced into making a purely sacrificial wish, was expressing her true feelings, or at least her feelings lacking knowledge of what had occurred. Whether this is indicative of any deep-seated regret for what she did or just musings from a naive girl who doesn't know any better isn't really important. Homura interpreted things her way and went from there. I think the official subs help in understanding this conversation a lot more. It wasn't really about Homura trying to fulfill Madoka's wish or anything like that, it was that Madoka's wish sparked a moment of clarity in her, where she realizes that she just blindly accepted Madoka's sacrifice as the best solution even though she didn't want it. That she passively let it happen without doing anything more in her power to stop her. It's that revelation that serves as the seed for everything she does after Sayaka and co break out of her barrier.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 08:31
|
|
|
OK I finally found it somewhere and watched it! . . . I have no idea what just happened.  I can finally go read all the nerd raving/ranting about it so hopefully that'll help.One question: Why the heck is Nagisa in the movie? Her role is really small and she seems pretty pointless.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 08:43
|
|
|
Iretep posted:The impression I got is Madoka is fine with breaking rules for a good reason. Homuras rule breaking only makes herself and Madoka happier and might have some dire consequences. Homura probably won't even care as long as Madoka can stay happy. But that rule breaking requires Homura to betray Madoka, which is the one thing she would NEVER do. Plus, the whole idea that Homura is all sad and lonely in the new universe is flat out wrong. Did you see how brightly her Soul Gem was shining at the end of episode 12? It was radiant! And she was all smiles when talking to Madoka's mom. The gunfight also bugs me. I know they had a little tiff in the last time loop, but Mami and and Homura don't have an antagonistic relationship in general. They're actually pretty classic senpai-kohai friends. Either way, they're not going to try to kill each other. Madoka wouldn't approve. Finally, Homura would never taunt Sayaka, or anybody for that matter. She's way too nice (if a bit harsh when friends make the same deadly mistake over and over again.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 10:29
|
|
|
I don't know how anybody could possibly be upset with Rebellion if you take witches and the barriers within them to be metaphors for war-related PTSD. Sayaka being able to control her witch form was one of the most inspiring things I'd seen for that, and it would only make sense that Madoka would want to rescue Homura from that. The only way that hope or salvation can be even slightly effective in a person with any sort of trauma or psychological disturbance is when the person themselves actually wants it. Some people are unable to recognize that their situations may be causing pain in others, and thus they don't seek out help. Even with Sayaka and Nagisa trying to rescue a fellow trauma survivor, they couldn't do anything until Homura both acknowledged that she was suffering/lashing out and accepted the help that 'hope' could give her. Homura's always been a very selfish character. Her wish was selfish, and it even shows in the PSP games and The Battle Pentagram that if Madoka didn't tell her to rescue everybody else, Homura would have been okay with sacrificing everybody that Madoka loved if it meant to protect Madoka. As time went on, Homura stopped caring about anybody except Madoka, thus seeing them as just pieces to keeping Madoka happy. The obsession with this is why Homura's actions make complete sense, because she heard Madoka in her delusions telling her that she wouldn't be happy if she couldn't be with everybody. That was the trigger for her refusing the help Madoka could have offered and becoming a 'demon' to Madoka's 'God.' Either way, I always saw the movies and the TV series as separate things like Shinbo suggests. If you compare it to a VN, the TV series would've been the Madoka route, while the movies are the Homura route.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 12:01
|
|
|
MagicalDuck posted:Well, it's not getting any love from me. I can't even enjoy the TV series anymore, because I just get mad and start crying about how the stupid movie ruins everything the series is about. Thanks for making me hate my favorite anime, Shinbo. I'm sorry, but this is just flat out dumb. The series is not invalidated by a separate movie canon and it bugs me that people keep thinking this. It's not a cop out, it's how anime compilation movies work. They always do some goofy extracanonical stuff, at least the Tomino ones do. E: MD, you're seeing Homura as you want to see her, instead of the really lovely person she is, to boot. Homura pulled a gun on Sayaka so she wouldn't have to deal with her poo poo in the series. She told Madoka to give up on Sayaka once she contracted. She explains her reasoning for AI YO in the movie on a couple of occasions. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit with the Homu in you head, but there is nothing outside the text. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 12:10
|
|
|
Tree Huffer posted:Either way, I always saw the movies and the TV series as separate things like Shinbo suggests. If you compare it to a VN, the TV series would've been the Madoka route, while the movies are the Homura route.[/spoiler] I haven't seen the first two movies, but I heard the scenes that got inserted were more Homura-central? So your analogy makes sense. As for the question of Homura's actions being in or out of character, it's worth remembering that for most of the movie she's trapped in the process of turning into a witch. Every one of those actions makes perfect sense for a Homura at least partially subsued by her obsessions rather than in her right mind.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 12:31
|
|
|
MagicalDuck posted:But that rule breaking requires Homura to betray Madoka, which is the one thing she would NEVER do. I think Homuras resolution in this movie was kind of that in order to make Madoka happy she has to go against Madokas wishes. Homuras #1 priority is making Madoka happy while Madokas will is to sacrifice her own happiness so no one else needs to suffer. Obvious solution is to prevent the sacrifice and force Madoka to live happily ever after. The fact that Homura is doing this to Madoka is part of the reason she considers herself to be the ultimate evil.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 16:41
|
|
|
I want to say a few things. First of all, sorry about the post I made earlier calling everyone evil, it was bullshit. Second, having now watched Rebellion a second time, my view of it has really changed and I think I've discovered something rather important. When I first watched the movie I and seemingly many people left thinking that Homura had revoked the Law of the Cycles. I no longer believe this to be the case. I apologize to anyone who tried to point this out, but I was clouded by the emotionality of what I'd seen, and wasn't able to study it further until now. First, Homura does not technically become a witch. She explicitly says "As I am now, I am not even a witch any longer." They give her a special characterization instead as a "demon" and later as "Evil". The point is, she didn't just become a witch, she is a separate entity from a witch. They also make clear that she was able to do what she did for different reasons than people normally become a witch: instead of being tainted by despair (which creates a witch), she is tainted by love (and thus becomes a demon). So, because of this, Homura's transition does not technically violate the Law of the Cycles. Second, Madoka and the Law of the Cycles appear to simply be separated from one another. Madoka says she is being ripped apart. Sayaka accuses Homu of having "broken off a part of the Law of the Cycles." Homura defends herself quite clearly saying, "All I took was a tiny piece of it. Just the records of the person Madoka was before she ceased to exist." This suggests the rest of the Law remains. She goes on to say that the other girls have been "pulled in" to her barrier. While Sayaka still seems to have her witch side, she is also very much human (as is Nagisa) so it's not the same as the old witches. If anything they are witches who have been successfully redeemed by the Law, and used to live in the heavenly realm with Madokami. So it appears once again the Law has not been revoked. A crucial line in all this is when Homura says she might destroy this world "after all the wraiths have been destroyed." Wraiths were the replacements for witches in the post-Law world. This means the order of wraiths remains and supports the idea that the world has not been restored to a pre-Law state with witches instead of wraiths. Basically, Madoka's wish was not eradicated. It apparently remains true that magical girls who fall to despair will not become witches. However, Madoka's personality has been divorced/"ripped" from the divine entity that performs this action, although clearly there is a possibility of their reuniting, although it's not clear what benefit this would serve. One last little element: the final frames before the credits begin show Madokami and then some runic text. This seems to suggest that Madokami has become a witch, since that's how we usually see runes. But the runes do not say Kriemhild Gretchen, they say "Who has dreamt?" in German. I think they may have done this intentionally to mislead. The purpose of this movie was not to overturn Madoka's wish. It was to bring all of the characters back to life in a new universe, and to create a conflict with Homura, whose newly demonic function includes deceiving people into forgetting their connection to the still-divine Madokami.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
I am just going to put it simply. (I am sure it's been said before but a lot of people won't wade through pages) Madoka's wish was a selfless sacrifice. She gave up everything to save everyone. She didn't want to become a god, but did it as her only solution to the suffering. Homura's love was selfish in a sense, as all she wanted was to "save" Madoka from her own wish, while respecting her wish's selfless sacrifice. She separated the entity from the god. I could discuss this movie forever but I think everything has been said somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 17:07 |
|
|
It's also important to note she did become a witch, albeit under extraordinary circumstances and near-immediate "recovery" by a god and her angels. Homura then promptly twisted that god's power and did some crazy poo poo. Also, though I do use the term for Ultimate Madoka, I really don't like using the word God to describe her, since there's so much baggage associated with the word. It's important to realize that she's not omnipotent or omniattentive, she just has incredible power and an extraordinary existence. And now Homura's using part of that power
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 18:11
|
|