|
Elyv posted:If you read MaRo's blog, it seems extremely unlikely that they'd return to Kamigawa. I still find it really weird that nerds love JRPGs and anime but in the realm of cardboard it falls flat. L5R didn't do so hot either from what I recall.
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:30 |
|
|
Fox of Stone posted:I still find it really weird that nerds love JRPGs and anime but in the realm of cardboard it falls flat. L5R didn't do so hot either from what I recall. gently caress if I'm going to search the Rosewater's tens of thousands of answers to find it, but as I remember it he said that it was too loyal to the actual source material and not similar enough to what nerds actually expected.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
Elyv posted:gently caress if I'm going to search the Rosewater's tens of thousands of answers to find it, but as I remember it he said that it was too loyal to the actual source material and not similar enough to what nerds actually expected. Right. And yet Miyazaki and really weird anime/JRPGs starring kami, shinigami, and co. are still popular. Though yes the vast majority of popularity stems from up skirt panty shots of 15 yo's.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
Fox of Stone posted:I still find it really weird that nerds love JRPGs and anime but in the realm of cardboard it falls flat. YuGiOh and Pokemon would like a word with you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
Fox of Stone posted:I still find it really weird that nerds love JRPGs and anime but in the realm of cardboard it falls flat. L5R didn't do so hot either from what I recall. They put too much actual Shinto mythology in it, which anime-watching nerds were completely bafffled by.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
Entropic posted:They put too much actual Shinto mythology in it, which anime-watching nerds were completely bafffled by. Watch for the next expansion based on this, Journey into Giant Robot Panty Shot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:25
|
|
|
Fox of Stone posted:I still find it really weird that nerds love JRPGs and anime but in the realm of cardboard it falls flat. L5R didn't do so hot either from what I recall. L5R's still going. Nowhere the numbers of MTG but its got a pretty devoted fanbase. Number of players took a hit last arc due to oppressive decks though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
theironjef posted:Watch for the next expansion based on this, Journey into Giant Robot Panty Shot. This is how they'll do contraptions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
Entropic posted:This is how they'll do contraptions. I would give Wizards every last cent of my money if they managed to capture mecha in Magic. Saviors of Mirrodin, giant robots come to kick Phyrexian rear end. Guest artist, Masami Obari. Best block 2015.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:29
|
|
|
theironjef posted:Watch for the next expansion based on this, Journey into Giant Robot Panty Shot. New mechanic, panty shot: look at the bottom N cards of your library. Put any number of them on the bottom of your library in any order, and put the rest on top of your library in any order.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:32
|
|
|
Serperoth posted:I would give Wizards every last cent of my money if they managed to capture mecha in Magic. Saviors of Mirrodin, giant robots come to kick Phyrexian rear end. Guest artist, Masami Obari. Best block 2015. There's a bunch of images floating around out there of a 'Space Cube' that's a copy of someone's cube done up to look like Space: the Convergence (except with better art/card design than that). It looks loving awesome.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:36
|
|
|
vOv posted:There's a bunch of images floating around out there of a 'Space Cube' that's a copy of someone's cube done up to look like Space: the Convergence (except with better art/card design than that). It looks loving awesome. Yes, I am aware. They look pretty great. I actually listened to the Drive to Work episode on TCGs today, and MaRo mentions that they probably wouldn't have done Space: The Convergence, which is a BIT of a shame, but an understandable point.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
Serperoth posted:I would give Wizards every last cent of my money if they managed to capture mecha in Magic. Saviors of Mirrodin, giant robots come to kick Phyrexian rear end. Guest artist, Masami Obari. Best block 2015. There's a rumour that Power Armor and any artwork that depicts it were made as a way to use up leftover art from the old Battletech CCG, which would explain a lot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:41
|
|
|
KidDynamite posted:Oh that sucks to hear. Do you have a link to that specific blog post? I don't but I can sum it up. 1. It was based on real japanese mythology. Turns out only scholars and nerds know real mythology, most of what consumers expect is a pop culture based variety. Innistrad and Theros were designed this way and are a smashing success. For every guy who goes "RAISED BY WOLVES IS A ROMAN REFERENCE IN A GREEK BLOCK!" someone else is like gently caress YEAH 300 RULES! You have to meet expectations even when they're wrong. Maro is super loving fond of this story about a game where you have a topic, like Insects, and you write down what you think the most popular answer is. Kind of like Family Feud. So the right answer is spiders, even though spider isn't an insect. It doesnt' matter what is right, it matters what people expect to see. 2. The names. Basically they try hard to have the names be memorable, easy to use as a reference, give some inference to what the card is or does or theme or flavor or color, and Kamigawa names just don't do any of that very well. 3. All the mechanics are parasitic or named super narrow. The whole spirit or arcane thing don't work with ANY cards outside of the block. Bushido and Ninjitsu are good mechanics that have names that are obviously asian themed block only. We'll see the latter again someday with new names. 3a. This has power level issues where very few cards were good at all, and if they were, they tended to be borderline broken or just have almost nothing to do with the block other than being printed in it. It was a massive disappointment following Mirrodin and preceding Ravinica, both of which were lauded sets, although Mirrodin constructed was broken, people still like the block 4. Another asian block is not out of the question, but Kamigawa is a poison pill. They basically don't want to carry the baggage of a set people disliked so when the old grognard in your store can tell everyone how much the 1st Kamigawa block was awful and pre-poison the minds of newer players. 5. I forgot one. The current way of thinking says your sets theme has to be at common. The idea being if someone opens a couple packs, they should be able to look at what they got and figure out what your set is about. So Theros you'll see some heroic, some monstrous, a bunch of pump spells. Kamigawa's thing was legendaries. Specifically all rare creatures are legendary. This is really hard to get if you only buy a couple packs. You need to see a lot of packs to realize that all rare creatures are legendary. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:43
|
|
|
Serperoth posted:I would give Wizards every last cent of my money if they managed to capture mecha in Magic. Saviors of Mirrodin, giant robots come to kick Phyrexian rear end. Guest artist, Masami Obari. Best block 2015. I would give them money not to do this, keep your Battletech out of my wizard poker.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
Also, one of the best equipments ever printed is a glorified nightstick. What the gently caress, Wizards.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:47
|
|
|
Yeah basically they revisit planes to bank on nostalgia, and Kamigawa block was weird and unpopular enough that they don't see a big well of nostalgia to tap into the way there was for Ravnica or Mirrodin.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:48
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:
Actually spirits played pretty well with spirits in Ravnica since Ravnica had a subtheme about spooky ghosts. Arcane didn't play well outside of block though. Also look if you can't tell me the difference between Opal-Eye, Isao, Konda, Takeno, Nagao, Kenzo, and Kentaro then I don't know what to tell you (They are all Samurai  ).
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
Isn't there every reason to believe Tarkir is Wizard Mongolia?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 19:52
|
|
|
Nehru the Damaja posted:Isn't there every reason to believe Tarkir is Wizard Mongolia? I thought it was Sarkhan Vol's home plane, but there's no reason it can't be both.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:00
|
|
|
Nehru the Damaja posted:Isn't there every reason to believe Tarkir is Wizard Mongolia? Well, there's one reason: "Khans of Tarkir." Everything else about the potential set boils down to "is this Sarkhan Vol's home, and if so, how does that square with 'Dragons of Tarkir?'"
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
Cactrot posted:I thought it was Sarkhan Vol's home plane, but there's no reason it can't be both. Mongols who killed all of the dragons, because they could? I'd buy that set!
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Actually spirits played pretty well with spirits in Ravnica since Ravnica had a subtheme about spooky ghosts. Arcane didn't play well outside of block though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Actually spirits played pretty well with spirits in Ravnica since Ravnica had a subtheme about spooky ghosts. Arcane didn't play well outside of block though. True, but outside of there it is, well, garbage. I think he said something on a podcast or blog post about how many spirit creatures were printed pre-kamigawa and it was a really low number. Basically saying, when you open champions, see the mechanic, you can't find other cards that work with it and get pretty pissed off about that. I'm sure with Rav and Inn block the spirit mechanic is probably better now but back then it didn't go over well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:08
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Actually spirits played pretty well with spirits in Ravnica since Ravnica had a subtheme about spooky ghosts. Arcane didn't play well outside of block though. Without looking them up: Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo. Something something Defender something? Isao, Enlightened Bushi. Might have been a flip card? Konda, Lord of Eiganjo. 3/3 indestructible Bushido 5, and maybe another ability. Also the main plot antagonist from what I understand. Takeno, Oathkeeper's Daisho. Wait no, that's the equipment. I have no idea who Takeno is. Nagao, Bound by Honor. No clue. Kenzo the Hardhearted. Might have also been a flip card. Is he red? Kentaro, the Smiling Cat. I think he's like a 2/1 for 1W with some ability and creepy art. Apparently I'm good at remembering the full names but awful at remembering anything more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:10
|
|
|
Nibble posted:Nagao, Bound by Honor. No clue. he had a shitload of ribbons in his art and I want to say he was about giving +1/+1 to something, maybe other Samurai.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:12
|
|
|
Opal-Eye was a dude with defender that could take damage for you. Isao was a green samurai who could regenerate himself and other samurai. Nagao was a samura with an anthem effect on attacks, Takeno had an anthem effect based on a card's bushido value. Kenzo was a flip card from Jushi Tenderfoot (1/1 into a 3/4 double strike bushido 2 or something). Kentaro let you cast samurai of any color with colorless mana. I also forgot about Sensei Golden-Tail but I think they at least made a good job of making Kitsune names obvious. They're all either hyphenated or tail-related, IIRC. Rune-Tail, Autumn-Tail, Golden-Tail, 8.5 tails, Opal-Eye. Snake naming was a little trickier. Zoness fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:14
|
|
|
Obsoletely Fabulous posted:I'm trying to get back into Magic after not playing for quite a few years. I played back when it first came out until 6th or 7th edition. My brother was kind enough to sell all my cards (had some Beta, poo poo ton of Unlimited, lots of dual lands) like 5 years ago so I'm starting out from scratch. Hey, sorry I missed your post, too. I was still throbbing from the figurative rear end-beating I took Saturday at the SCG open trial. Christ, I went mono red aggrovotion and was only paired against esper control decks, except for round 3. R/w burn. Anyway, here's my suggestion: Definitely give the drafts a go. Money draft what you can, but pick one deck out of Mtgtop8.com, and work towards getting that. Don't go nuts buying Mutavaults, they're 30-40 bucks right now, but pick something heavy on Theros cards. If you're in the US, PM me your address, or send it to my user name @ gmail.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
Elyv posted:gently caress if I'm going to search the Rosewater's tens of thousands of answers to find it, but as I remember it he said that it was too loyal to the actual source material and not similar enough to what nerds actually expected. quote:1. It was based on real japanese mythology. Turns out only scholars and nerds know real mythology, most of what consumers expect is a pop culture based variety. Innistrad and Theros were designed this way and are a smashing success. For every guy who goes "RAISED BY WOLVES IS A ROMAN REFERENCE IN A GREEK BLOCK!" someone else is like gently caress YEAH 300 RULES! You have to meet expectations even when they're wrong. Maro is super loving fond of this story about a game where you have a topic, like Insects, and you write down what you think the most popular answer is. Kind of like Family Feud. So the right answer is spiders, even though spider isn't an insect. It doesnt' matter what is right, it matters what people expect to see. Korak fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
Well, beat my first pro, semi-pro maybe? magic player! At the PTQ in hartford I managed to beat joe demestrio which was pretty exciting. Then, after going 3-0, proceed to just get crushed to go 3-4 drop. The sealed pool was pretty mediocre, I have to admit, but there was at least one round where I could have played a lot better.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:35
|
|
|
Korak posted:More specifically he feels that they did a good job with Theros in blending our western notions of what greek/roman life was while being spun around the magical realm of MTG. I think we'll see Return to Kamigawa but it will be after the 7 year plan. He's said on that topic, when people say "well go try again!" that they're not closed to another asian block, but it won't be the same world. It will have katana's and nunchucks and kaiju and kimonos and all the things people think should be in an asian setting but it won't be in Kamigawa. If you read between the lines I'm pretty sure they feel the world is poisoned by association with a bad block and they'd do better starting fresh. Plus if you keep Kamigawa, then your stuck with places and names that already exist there more or less. If you ignore almost all of the old block, then it is effectively a new place anyway and you might as well give it a new name and be done with it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:37
|
|
|
Entropic posted:They put too much actual Shinto mythology in it, which anime-watching nerds were completely bafffled by. I really enjoy world mythology and know a decent amount about Shintoism and Kamigawa was a big miss for me. They focused specifically on Shinto way too much to much. If you told me a set was going to be based on Japanese folklore, etc I have expectations. I expect tengu and other youkai and the stories about them. I expect things like the Dragon Palace and Kintaro and Susano-o. Kamigawa did not have this. Instead it had lawful kitsune samurai, snake people with six limbs and extinct Kappa. Hell they did ninja in one of three sets and it wasn't even the first one. Expectations mean a hell of a lot and Kamigawa did not meet nearly any of them. Theros is absolutely the correct way to go about top-down worlds based on existing mythology. PhyrexianLibrarian posted:There's a rumour that Power Armor and any artwork that depicts it were made as a way to use up leftover art from the old Battletech CCG, which would explain a lot. This is a rumor but it's untrue, aside from the art usually involving blatant Magic things (Phyrexians, Metathran, Kavu, etc) Urza's in particular has the Thran Emblem incorporated into the cockpit design. They're just a part of Urza's whole "I'm gonna build poo poo and it's gonna be a big awesome machine" personality. The dude built a gigantic robot dragon he piloted into Phyrexia during the Urza's Saga storyline. Dude just liked to solve problems by building mecha. Chorocojo fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
Chorocojo posted:I really enjoy world mythology and know a decent amount about Shintoism and Kamigawa was a big miss for me. They focused specifically on Shinto way too much to much. If you told me a set was going to be based on Japanese folklore, etc I have expectations. I expect tengu and other youkai and the stories about them. I expect things like the Dragon Palace and Kintaro and Susano-o. Kamigawa did not have this. Instead it had lawful kitsune samurai, snake people with six limbs and extinct Kappa. When maro says that Kamigawa didn't meet players expectations, he meant more that it didn't have enough ninjas, godzilla, sushi and other things that the lowest common denominator mouth-breathing plebes associate with Japan. Tengu, youkai and the Dragon Palace, etc. are not the sort of thing you can expect to see in a magic set based around Japan.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
CountFosco posted:When maro says that Kamigawa didn't meet players expectations, he meant more that it didn't have enough ninjas, godzilla, sushi and other things that the lowest common denominator mouth-breathing plebes associate with Japan. Tengu, youkai and the Dragon Palace, etc. are not the sort of thing you can expect to see in a magic set based around Japan. I'm aware. I'm saying that as someone who IS invested in that poo poo. It even failed there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:He's said on that topic, when people say "well go try again!" that they're not closed to another asian block, but it won't be the same world. It will have katana's and nunchucks and kaiju and kimonos and all the things people think should be in an asian setting but it won't be in Kamigawa. If you read between the lines I'm pretty sure they feel the world is poisoned by association with a bad block and they'd do better starting fresh. Plus if you keep Kamigawa, then your stuck with places and names that already exist there more or less. If you ignore almost all of the old block, then it is effectively a new place anyway and you might as well give it a new name and be done with it. All that said, I really hope we don't have another "return to X" block for a long time. Having every other/every third block being some kind of attempt at cashing in on nostalgia would get old real fast.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:44
|
|
|
Fair enough. I just found it amusing that your solution to Kamigawa was to go far deeper into obscure lore when everything we've heard from WOTC says that that's what caused it to bomb in the first plase.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
CountFosco posted:Fair enough. I just found it amusing that your solution to Kamigawa was to go far deeper into obscure lore when everything we've heard from WOTC says that that's what caused it to bomb in the first plase. Again though, that's not my solution. Theros is absolutely the correct way to go about top-down based on an existing mythology. It delivers on expectations and even has things like the Hecatonchire and the Teumessian Fox for people like me. Raised by Wolves is fine even. Those wolves loved the poo poo out of that hydra.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:46
|
|
|
quote:lskmtg asked Mark Rosewater: When do Journey into Nyx previews start? Next week? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:50
|
|
|
I liked Kamigawa block stuff because old Shinto fairy tales are about 10 billion times more interesting that the tripe that passes for any kind of theme or story in anything purely Wizards created. I guess most people don't agree so oh well, the story is basically the least important aspect of the cards to me anyhow.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:30 |
|
|
Chorocojo posted:Again though, that's not my solution. Theros is absolutely the correct way to go about top-down based on an existing mythology. It delivers on expectations and even has things like the Hecatonchire and the Teumessian Fox for people like me. Raised by Wolves is fine even. Those wolves loved the poo poo out of that hydra. I dunno, but Theros actually kind of disappoints me more than Kamigawa does in terms of trying to make the cards interesting. Maybe it draws better from source Myth, but as a block it's felt pretty lackluster mechanically so far.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 20:56
|
|