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Honestly, I don't really know. I've read that it's more expensive for companies to employ people here, and that National Insurance (the tax which theoretically pays for our health service) is one of the main reasons for that. And that causes salaries to be lower. But I certainly don't have any data to make a proper comparison. I just know that you all earn more in SF and similar. Edit: To clarify how NI works, in slightly simplified form: the employer has to pay 13% of your total salary (including the value of any benefits) to the government. The employee also pays 12% of their salary. This is in addition to income tax. Tunga fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 15:03
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Tunga posted:Edit: To clarify how NI works, in slightly simplified form: the employer has to pay 13% of your total salary (including the value of any benefits) to the government. The employee also pays 12% of their salary. This is in addition to income tax. Is that only healthcare or general "social security" though? We're up to 38%-46% for total social security here, on top of which you get taxed (~40%). Even poor people in the US look ridiculously rich from our perspective, but then again nobody has "student loans", getting seriously ill doesn't generally condemn you to poverty, you are essentially able to afford all treatments and on average people retire at 59. (Not all of these things are actually good...) It's just really hard to compare. When my best friend moved his family permanently to the USA, they were shocked to find they couldn't afford daycare for the kids despite him being a PhD in Nuclear Physics. Daycare is heavily subsidized here so it used to be a total non-issue.
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Mar 31, 2014 15:25
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I'm not sure where "here" is in the context of your post but I think I remember you saying recently that you are somewhere in Europe? In reality all the money goes into one big pot and the government spend it all on whatever they want. NI was introduced to pay for the health service but it doesn't work like that in practice. We pay 12% NI and income tax at 0% (up to ~£8k), 20% (up to ~£40k), 40% (up to ~£158k) and 45% (the rest). You're right though, you can't just compare salary numbers between countries. Currency rates vary and cost of living can be complicated in other specific ways. Short version is that London salaries are not that great compared to SF and other US tech-hubs, but they are still comparatively good within the UK, and (from I've seen) not too different to somewhere like Berlin.
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Mar 31, 2014 15:57
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I work at a late startup. Most of us work about 9 hours (some a bit more) a day with a 45 minute trek to grab lunch. It's pretty relaxed and we take intermittent breaks to chat. The work is engaging and busy so the days fly by. Compensation is good, perks are great, very flexible scheduling, etc. As content as I am I'd never do this if I had kids though. At that point it'll be 9-5 for me at a place I can work remotely on occasion. Right now I'm 26, live 15 minutes from my office, and would rather be out than in my apartment anyway. Start-up life with a family must be pretty difficult.
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Mar 31, 2014 17:10
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I wouldn't do the long-hours startup thing unless it paid significantly more. Just as a matter of self-respect, I'm not interested in working an unpaid hour over 40 hrs/wk unless my salary is more than proportionally higher than I'd get working a similar position at a company that observed a strict 9-5 schedule. I don't care if a company offers me a salary that looks high when you assume a 40-hour week. If it turns out to only be slightly more per hour than some fresh grad would make at a place with a strict 9-5, then they can go gently caress themselves. My time is valuable.
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Mar 31, 2014 17:19
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My only complaint is that people are here until 7 (sometimes after) on Fridays. gently caress that poo poo.
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Mar 31, 2014 17:36
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pointsofdata posted:From my jobhunting over the last week I think that the entry level jobs are poorly paid - some advertise as low as 18-25k. The ones which ask for just a year or two of experience advertise at substantially more than that (about 40k) but still nowhere near american levels. There's a big financial sector here so plenty of fairly well paid jobs working there if you have experience, which sadly I don't yet. Dev jobs in london are terribly underpaid except if you're in finance or if you can counteroffer with a us offer in which case they might grudgingly match E: you will still make a ton compared to everyone else but anyone competent can wrangle a 6 figure salary in the us by jumping between firms but getting 60k Gbp is a tough proposition Malcolm XML fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 20:35
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Anyone have experience with Hacker School in NYC? I'm thinking of applying if I don't manage to get an internship.
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Mar 31, 2014 21:39
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Anal Volcano went, but he was being laughed out of YOSPOS the last time I saw him post.
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Mar 31, 2014 22:34
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KidDynamite posted:Anyone have experience with Hacker School in NYC? I'm thinking of applying if I don't manage to get an internship. I'm very curious if these types of schools actually teach you more than interview skills. I imagine a month or two of concentrated interview practice would get you in tip top shape to do exactly that, but I would need to see someone come out of one of these and actually start producing production quality code quickly and efficiently (not easy to test this in an interview).
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Mar 31, 2014 22:39
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Malcolm XML posted:Dev jobs in london are terribly underpaid except if you're in finance or if you can counteroffer with a us offer in which case they might grudgingly match According to this site 20-30k GBP turns into 16-23k per year net. Is it reasonable to expect to spend at most 6-7k on rent + metro in London? Rent sites seem to consider a pretty huge area of land as being London, so maybe I'm getting a wrong idea of the rent situation. I'm seeing a decent number of 1 bedroom ads for 400-500/month + 1500 for a 1-3 year pass oyster turns out to 7.5kish. That would leave a decent chunk of change to cover basically nothing but food and recreation, I think.
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Mar 31, 2014 23:05
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Sil posted:I'm seeing a decent number of 1 bedroom ads for 400-500/month This is either one bedroom in a shared flat, a one bedroom flat that's also used as a nuclear waste storage facility or a one bedroom flat that's in "London" the way Luton airport is.
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Mar 31, 2014 23:10
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Sil posted:According to this site 20-30k GBP turns into 16-23k per year net. Is it reasonable to expect to spend at most 6-7k on rent + metro in London? No-one's arguing it's not good money for a fresh grad, it just falls way short of the craziness that's the US tech jobs market. coffeetable fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 23:13
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Savings Clown posted:This is either one bedroom in a shared flat, a one bedroom flat that's also used as a nuclear waste storage facility or a one bedroom flat that's in "London" the way Luton airport is. Pictures and maps confirm this  Is the draw just the chance to be in London? Do wages generally stagnate in the 30k range for the first few years or is the salary negotiation after the first year a chance to get a decent raise?
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Mar 31, 2014 23:14
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Sil posted:Is the draw just the chance to be in London? It's just comparable to most non-US places. I have no intention of ever living in America and have an EU passport so it's a decent place to be. Not that I don't weep when I read about fresh graduates getting six figures.
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Mar 31, 2014 23:20
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Sil posted:Pictures and maps confirm this
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Mar 31, 2014 23:34
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I work as a programmer in Scotland, and looking at the GPB/US exchange rate I earn $72000. This is apparently the base rate of Microsoft or Facebook software engineering intern out of college, even though I have been working for several years. Depressing!
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Mar 31, 2014 23:55
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One googles interview day done, 11am-4:20pm. That's quite tiring afterwards. The interview room was suspect, painted black big hexagon on its side. Great food though. All the questions were drastically simpler than what the recruiter said 
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Apr 1, 2014 01:12
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MrMoo posted:One googles interview day done, 11am-4:20pm. That's quite tiring afterwards. The interview room was suspect, painted black big hexagon on its side. Great food though. All the questions were drastically simpler than what the recruiter said Which office?
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Apr 1, 2014 01:22
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New York
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Apr 1, 2014 01:52
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return0 posted:I work as a programmer in Scotland, and looking at the GPB/US exchange rate I earn $72000. This is apparently the base rate of Microsoft or Facebook software engineering intern out of college, even though I have been working for several years. Depressing! What will really get you is that after 4 years of being a proven top performer, you'd be making double your current salary, and likely more. Is the UK just a socialist paradise where in-demand skills and hard work don't actually get you very far ahead, or are the skills just not as in-demand there?
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Apr 1, 2014 03:08
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baquerd posted:What will really get you is that after 4 years of being a proven top performer, you'd be making double your current salary, and likely more. London is one of, if not the best place for tech work in the world outside of North America. The simple fact is though that the US's software industry dwarfs everyone else's. e: It also feels like VCs are a lot more free and easy with their money in the US than they are here, and the resultant proliferation of startups is probably acting as a significant labour sink. That's just anecdotal though. coffeetable fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 03:17
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return0 posted:I work as a programmer in Scotland, and looking at the GPB/US exchange rate I earn $72000. This is apparently the base rate of Microsoft or Facebook software engineering intern out of college, even though I have been working for several years. Depressing! Pretty sure that's still higher than the average starting salary in the US though.
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Apr 1, 2014 13:08
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After all this happy talk about starts-ups, I'm feeling a little wary of the place I'm interviewing with. Anyway, second interview scheduled for today and I was wondering what good questions I should ask that may help determine the financial stability of the company? Or if it's even appropriate to ask that. I've got a wife and three kids so I have no interest in taking too huge a risk. What questions -- in general -- are good to ask a start-up?
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Apr 1, 2014 16:27
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I had my first interview for an internship this past thursday. No whiteboard, but some technical-ish questions, mostly asking me explain concepts. I thought I did pretty well. I am just not handling the waiting very well, and it's only been a few days.
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Apr 1, 2014 16:48
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All the talk of salaries makes me realise I have no idea what I should be expecting when I eventually manage to get a position somewhere. Having not had a job since my part-time school job I feel like getting paid even just £15k/year would feel like a fortune  (I did get a grant for the first few years of my research degree, and because my city is a very cheap part of the country to live in and I live fairly cheaply anyway, I still have some of it)I have applied for a couple of medium-sized IT firms near to where I live, and to a big company called FDM that has a structured graduate training scheme. I'm waiting to hear back from them whether I made it through to their assessment day stage. One of the smaller firms I'm really keen on, because they are asking for knowledge I actually already have (PHP, MySQL, etc) and it seems like a really good place to get experience and round out my skillset. Being local to here is a bonus. The other one is not so likely to want me because I think they want people who've used C++ a lot, whereas I just have pretty basic knowledge of the language. Still, they do say they are looking for graduates who can learn and pick things up quickly, so who knows. I don't know what I'll do if I end up with a choice of two different places both offering me a position. I feel like what I end up doing at this point could really impact what I could do later on. I don't know if that's accurate. I know I should be sending out applications in quantity, I just haven't got past the point where I agonise over how to approach each one, what to put in each covering letter, and so on. So I'm slow, I guess I need to 
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Apr 1, 2014 17:17
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Gary the Llama posted:After all this happy talk about starts-ups, I'm feeling a little wary of the place I'm interviewing with. Anyway, second interview scheduled for today and I was wondering what good questions I should ask that may help determine the financial stability of the company? Or if it's even appropriate to ask that. I've got a wife and three kids so I have no interest in taking too huge a risk. What questions -- in general -- are good to ask a start-up? 1. How you going to make money. Seriously. That's it. I've asked all startups that. To be fair I've yet to join an early stage startup, so they may not have a good answer yet. Again if you are risk averse, don't join those companies because all you may get out of it is experience, and experience doesn't feed 3 kids. </cliche> Okay more 2. Who are your closest competitors and how do you expect to beat them (maybe research their competitors and ask the second part) 3. What is your current burn-rate? What series funding are you at, and are you planning to ask for another round (this also helps in considering dilution)
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Apr 1, 2014 17:39
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Pretty sure that's still higher than the average starting salary in the US though. There are plenty of places paying $45k for a junior developer. Microsoft offers some really excellent salary and good benefits, well outside the average. Here's a Microsoft story. When I was in college, I applied for an internship with Microsoft. At least back then, they were really into riddles for interviews. The interviewer asks me this riddle (don't remember the exact wording, but this is close): quote:I was visiting a friend one evening and remembered that he had three daughters. I asked him how old they were. “The product of their ages is 72,” he answered. I asked, “Is there anything else you can tell me?” “Yes,” he replied, “the sum of their ages is equal to the number of my house.” I stepped outside to see what the house number was. Upon returning inside, I said to my host, “I’m sorry, but I still can’t figure out their ages.” He responded apologetically, “I’m sorry, I forgot to mention that my oldest daughter has red hair.” With this information, I was able to determine all three of their ages. How old is each daughter? I'll skip the actual solution in case anyone wants to try, but I got the outline of the solution right off and thought I was doing pretty awesomely. Then I was trying to solve for their ages, and I said, "well if she's got red hair then she must be pretty young, because if she was like 40 she'd probably have gray hair!" I heard a sharp intake of breath on the other end of the phone. I solved the riddle correctly, but did not get invited out for an on-site interview. One less badly-socialized nerd in Redmond that summer YOUR LOSS, MICROSOFT!
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Apr 1, 2014 18:29
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3,3,8?
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Apr 1, 2014 18:35
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That's right but the question is still dumb because even if you have twins that are the same age one of them is still the oldest 
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Apr 1, 2014 18:43
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Mniot posted:There are plenty of places paying $45k for a junior developer. Microsoft offers some really excellent salary and good benefits, well outside the average. I'm conscious that I'm missing the point of the post in order to focus on the logic puzzle like a true goon, but I don't understand what the relevance of the red hair bit is. The only thing I can think of is that we're supposed to infer that the two oldest daughters are different ages, because he refers to a unique "oldest" daughter. But that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, because even if two people are the same age then one will typically still be older than the other. Even assuming the daughters all have the same mother, they might have been born 11 months apart.
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Apr 1, 2014 18:50
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1,2,36 hurr
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Apr 1, 2014 18:52
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The red hair is supposed to tell you there is only one "oldest" daughter. The house number bit is supposed to tell you there is more than one combination of factors of 72 that will have the same sum.
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Apr 1, 2014 18:54
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1,1,72 edit: different mothers obviously
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Apr 1, 2014 18:57
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You can replace "red hair" with anything you want. You should've just saying that twins aren't born at the same time then hung up.
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Apr 1, 2014 18:58
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idk i feel like offending someone by saying that 40 is quite old was probably the right way to go
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Apr 1, 2014 19:00
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Maybe her hair was dyed edit: for anyone who can't figure out the puzzle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_Three_Children_puzzle
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Apr 1, 2014 19:00
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astr0man posted:Maybe her hair was dyed oh great a lateral thinking problem
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Apr 1, 2014 19:01
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MrMoo posted:Oh dear, the Google "recruiter" on my case quit already:  the replacement recruiter quit a month later and the process is still ongoing.(edit) Another recruiter responded saying I only have to wait for a couple of weeks to hear back. I checked when this process started, beginning of October. And another recruiter just notified me that they will be subsequently informing me of the SRE interview process. It's like magic. MrMoo fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 21:43
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MrMoo posted:
It's also a shitshow from the other side, for the record.
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