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Tony's problem was that he explained to Sarah what was in her best interest. Sarah had no interest in that, she wanted to be pandered to. Tasha did so, made Sarah feel special, so Sarah voted with them.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:07
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James315 posted:Kass' decision was shockingly bad, but we shouldn't overlook how bad Sarah's play was. Tony was right when he said Sarah should come over to their side. If she stayed where she was, she was at the bottom of a 6-member alliance, plus Kass was already against her. If she flipped to Tony's side, she would've been on the inside of the alliance. After wiping out Kass' tribe, the four Brawns could've voted out LJ & Jefra. Then they could get rid of Woo and they're in the final three (assuming Woo didn't win immunity). This is assuming Tony was being genuine when he said she was in the top 4. Otherwise, she's still number six if she flips. Remember, Tony did scream out "Top five!" in front of her when they won immunity the previous episode.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:16
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Yeah, I thought Tony should have sold the idea that if Sarah came over it was 4 Brawn and 2 Beauties so all they had to do was take out a brain, Jeremiah, and Morgan and then the 4 Brawn could work against LJ/Jefra or he, Sarah, and Woo against LJ, Trish, and Jefra. I just though there was a better sell there than what we saw Tony make but maybe it just didn't make the edit. Sarah was working ego but ultimately she seemed to make her decision on the idea of allying with the weaker players so she'd have an easier time of it. That makes sense. So she wasn't thinking entirely illogically. Unlike Kass who was just an idiot. And as much as dislike Trish I absolutely give her credit. That's the second huge move she's made and I really do think she's playing the best game right now. Considering that she could be a favorite in some of the late stage immunity challenges I really think she has a solid shot to get to the end. Too bad her social game is such poo poo so I doubt she has much shot in the Final Council. And I don't think anyone has actually been especially hard on Spencer. I haven't seen anyone call him a bad player. Sure, there was a little bit of over zealousness last week on jumping on his misreading of players and similarly it might be unfair to blame him for not wrangling in Kass and Sarah after making such a big deal about how he was going to keep the tribe together, because it could have just not made the cut. But that's just a reaction to people calling him a good player or an All Star. I'd laugh my rear end off if Spencer was labeled an All Star because I haven't seen him do a thing. That doesn't make him a bad player, just a mediocre one. On the other hand fans take to him so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him get the Cochran "Favorite" spot. There's absolutely no requirement of being good in that label.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:22
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The problem with the relatively smart people this season is that they seem incapable of thinking as stupidly as the stupid people do, so they keep hindering themselves assuming the other side will make a smart play. Tony assumed Sarah would gun for him first and he was right. He assumed that they would target the next biggest threat second because that's what a smart person would do. Instead they targeted the person who might actually be the dumbest human being remaining (Jefra) and poses no challenge threat to them because they are so dumb. Now, it turns out Jefra might actually be in one of the two best current positions in the game specifically because she's so stupid she cannot even come up with stupid ideas like the rest of them. Jeremiah seems like he's sitting prettiest right now because he's No. 3 over there in terms of individual threats behind Tony and LJ and he actually seems like he's reading the game fairly well. Jefra is probably No. 2 because she's no threat to anyone and she's too dumb to even screw herself, which normally isn't even relevant but might as well be loving immunity this season.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:24
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But you don't need to get rid of challenge threats at this point, unless you think they are gonna win literally every challenge in the future (they won't) there will be plenty of time to take out Tony or LJ in the future. And since they were worried that LJ or Tony might have an idol, going with Jefra who they are sure doesn't have an idol and that nobody is going to use an idol on her is exactly the right move.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:37
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Piell posted:But you don't need to get rid of challenge threats at this point, unless you think they are gonna win literally every challenge in the future (they won't) there will be plenty of time to take out Tony or LJ in the future. And since they were worried that LJ or Tony might have an idol, going with Jefra who they are sure doesn't have an idol and that nobody is going to use an idol on her is exactly the right move. I suppose, but I think a lot of what makes that move seem like the right one is the fact that we know they both have idols. The odds of their worst case scenario actually being true were incredibly low. I guess it's moot anyway since I think things are going to be wide open starting next week.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:45
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Yeah, Jefra was 100% the right play. I honestly feel super, super bad for the rest of the Aparri 6, because they were one insane person away from pulling off the most technically impressive tribal councils ever (flushing 2 idols, voting out a member of the other alliance anyway with a 1-person majority and no vote splitting). Kass went off the rails, but it started with her making the correct points that Trish would be a good target and Sarah was being super shady/stubborn for no reason.sportsgenius86 posted:I suppose, but I think a lot of what makes that move seem like the right one is the fact that we know they both have idols. The odds of their worst case scenario actually being true were incredibly low. They didn't know anyone had an idol, but they correctly identified that LJ/Tony were the type of people who would have idols, and who would probably show their hands early because they were big targets. Spencer and Kass were talking about how Jefra and Trish were the safe boots, about how nobody would use an idol to save them; they were being super cautious and it turned out to be the right move, too. xbilkis fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 16:45
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I've always wondered, if you get voted out with an idol in your pocket, can you take it out and give it to someone as you're leaving?
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Apr 3, 2014 16:48
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We would definitely have seen it happen if it was allowed.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:55
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I'm not really sure how Spencer was supposed to anticipate Kass trading a top three spot for 6th place or worse because ??? It'd be like blaming Boston Rob for Tyson's wonky vote on Heroes vs Villains. Generally you've got to assume people will show some shred of self preservation. It wasn't unreasonable of Spencer to assume Tasha had it under control. Since the use of the term All-Star seemed to ruffle a few feathers, a couple former All-Stars: Candice Woodcock/Cody (twice) Rupert Boneham (three terrible times) Shii Ann (from Thailand) Brandon Hantz (nuff said) Dawn Meehan Erik Reichenbach Not exactly murderers row. I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with slotting Spencer in. After Tony and maybe LJ he seems like a pretty solid #3 for a return from this season. On the subject of Tony, we finally have someone Tony can beat at the FTC in Kass. 
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Apr 3, 2014 17:02
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sportsgenius86 posted:I've always wondered, if you get voted out with an idol in your pocket, can you take it out and give it to someone as you're leaving? I don't think so, but I know Jeff said in interviews that in the Redemption Island seasons if you got voted out with the Idol in your pocket you kept it when you went to RI. Given all the interaction between the RI players and the in-game players in Blood vs. Water, that may also allow handing off your Idol to someone while at a duel.
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Apr 3, 2014 17:03
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I understand that this thread has generally different tastes than I do, but honestly, how could anyone want to see LJ back? He found an idol, and uh...Trish liked him? And that's about it. He's just there, and he's completely uncompelling to me. I also don't see why the show would bring him back instead of, like, Reynold, who was actually a significant presence in his season even though I didn't really like him. And, knowing how the casting works, they'll just bring Malcolm back every time they're looking for a player like that anyway. I think Tony, Kass, Tasha and Spencer are all pretty likely to return at some point. Woo and Morgan are also people who I like to think they'd consider bringing back if they stick around long enough/have compelling enough exits (Morgan if only to have some eye candy). I think that's one of the better aspects of having a full new cast; it replenishes the pool for returning players.
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Apr 3, 2014 17:14
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BGrifter posted:I'm not really sure how Spencer was supposed to anticipate Kass trading a top three spot for 6th place or worse because ??? It'd be like blaming Boston Rob for Tyson's wonky vote on Heroes vs Villains. Generally you've got to assume people will show some shred of self preservation. It wasn't unreasonable of Spencer to assume Tasha had it under control. Again, we're not saying Spencer's a bad player. We're saying he's a mediocre one. quote:Since the use of the term All-Star seemed to ruffle a few feathers, a couple former All-Stars: Brandon, Dawn, and Erik weren't "All Stars", they were "Favorites." That may sound like nitpicking and semantics but I actually think the "Favorites" generally are a collection of random people who stood out for some reason but not necessarily for being good players. "All Stars" on the other hans should probably have played a good game. And just because some bad All Stars have been chosen in the past doesn't mean you have to pick bad All Stars in the future. Like I said, bring him back for Fans vs Favorites 3. He's obviously got some kind of fanbase. Bring him back as an "All Star" and I'll laugh the same way I laughed at Candice being called one. Seriously. You're argument for Spencer is "Candice got brought back." That's not much of a compliment for your guy.
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Apr 3, 2014 17:26
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I wouldn't discount Jefra from winning, this season is full of hyper people who rub each other the wrong way there is a lot of strategic game but little social game if it winds up to be a bitter jury Jefra who everyone seems to like could sneak away with it.
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Apr 3, 2014 17:27
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Honestly I just hope that the awesomeness of this season (I mean, this is the best pre-merge/first episode of merge we've had in like, at least 10 seasons right?) means that we don't get returning players at all, and CBS continues to go with seasons with entirely new players, even though I do enjoy some of the characters from this season. I don't mind returnee seasons every 7-8 seasons or so, but have a returnee or three every season is complete bullshit, since the seasons just focus too heavily on them. Fans vs. favourites also just doesn't work, the fans just get crushed against people who've played before, and pregame alliances just remove so much of the on your feet strategy. HvV was easily the best returnee season concept we've seen though, I don't really see them topping that. The only other concept that could be interesting was a winners only season, but again I think pregame alliances would ruin things.
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Apr 3, 2014 17:28
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Interview with Sarah: http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2014/04/03/survivor-castaway-sarah-kass-was-wreaking-havoc-around-camp/ Seems like Kass was not in a solid final three as Sarah says she was in with Spencer and Jeremiah, i.e. the "brain" trio was not what it appeared from the edit. I don't think that validates the flip, but at least explains it as more than disliking Sarah.
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Apr 3, 2014 17:32
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xbilkis posted:I understand that this thread has generally different tastes than I do, but honestly, how could anyone want to see LJ back? He found an idol, and uh...Trish liked him? And that's about it. He's just there, and he's completely uncompelling to me. I also don't see why the show would bring him back instead of, like, Reynold, who was actually a significant presence in his season even though I didn't really like him. And, knowing how the casting works, they'll just bring Malcolm back every time they're looking for a player like that anyway. Wren610 posted:I wouldn't discount Jefra from winning, this season is full of hyper people who rub each other the wrong way there is a lot of strategic game but little social game if it winds up to be a bitter jury Jefra who everyone seems to like could sneak away with it. Its like what some people said about Jeremiah during the episode. He misplayed a bit early on but he's generally been right or made the right moves. Given that he's the 3rd or 4th biggest physical challenge he could have a solid shot at the end if he plays his cards right. Zarrr posted:Interview with Sarah: http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2014/04/03/survivor-castaway-sarah-kass-was-wreaking-havoc-around-camp/ In fairness I don't think the edit at all implied there was a Brains Final Three. In fact that was one of my big questions. Tasha and Spencer should have been assuring Kass of her spot to the end. If that F3 just didn't exist at all, even as a fake alliance to cover up ulterior motives for Spencer or Tasha than I think that's questionable gameplay. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 17:34
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Wren610 posted:I wouldn't discount Jefra from winning, this season is full of hyper people who rub each other the wrong way there is a lot of strategic game but little social game if it winds up to be a bitter jury Jefra who everyone seems to like could sneak away with it. so basically she's Natalie
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Apr 3, 2014 17:50
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I don't think anyone is saying that Jefra is an idiot, so much as Jefra barely exists. She truly has the perfect last name.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:08
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xbilkis posted:I understand that this thread has generally different tastes than I do, but honestly, how could anyone want to see LJ back? He found an idol, and uh...Trish liked him? And that's about it. He's just there, and he's completely uncompelling to me. I think there's some deliberate rhetoric being used in this post. LJ didn't just find an idol, he inferred that Morgan must have been off in that area because she was looking for one and then he found it, without a clue, where it was under three feet of water. Then, he didn't stick around just because "uh... Trish liked him," but because he came into a tribe as a significant minority after the swap but he played a good social game in that he got Trish to like him, which made Tony like him enough to give him an idol. Then, he had the balls to not play his idol when it looked like he was very close to being voted out. LJ is doing great and I hope I don't sound like BGrifter slobbering over Spencer, since aside from wasting his idol he has done great. Tony is the best though
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Apr 3, 2014 18:16
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Yes I can see Jefra pulling a Natalie she should be as invisable confession wise as Morgan and Jerimiah are but she's still getting a few little confessions here and there I dont think confession counts are the be all to end all but players are starting to disappear confession wise. Lj started strong but it does seem like he's been running out of steam the last couple eps. I fear Tasha is doomed she did the right thing trying to mollify Sarah but no confession showing her obvious game awareness has me thinking she's a goner.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:21
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Piell posted:I don't think anyone is saying that Jefra is an idiot, so much as Jefra barely exists. She truly has the perfect last name. Had look it up to make sure her last name wasn't Purple.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:27
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Piell posted:I don't think anyone is saying that Jefra is an idiot, so much as Jefra barely exists. She truly has the perfect last name. She isn't Bland to look at though. I personally find her me attractive than Morgan.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:36
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Everyone this season is terrible at survivor. It's not a BAD thing so don't worry bout it.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:43
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TheChad posted:Everyone this season is terrible at survivor. Yeah I've finally turned the corner on this season. Everyone is terrible, the season sucks, burn it all down. Worst season since One World. Hopefully we get the Nicaragua result and someone like Woo wins. Edit: With this season crumbling in front of our eyes, is this the death knell for all newbie seasons?
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Apr 3, 2014 18:46
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What? No. Tony, Trish, Tasha, Spencer, and Jeremiah are all very decent players, on top of which LJ, Morgan, and Jefra haven't poo poo the bed. Just because Sarah misplayed herself into oblivion and Kass ruins everything doesn't make this a dumb cast.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:53
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I think everyone this season wants so desperately to be good at survivor that they are bad at Survivor. There is a lot of people overthinking it and it's just fantastic. I think this is why Spencer is doing so well in the eyes of people. He's not trying to overplay as badly as everyone else is. Has he been on the bad side of some votes/ideas? Absolutely but he's stuck with his guns for the most part and hasn't taken shots at people like most others have so far.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:53
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Who cares if they're smart? They have great personalities and the season is strong and hilarious.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:54
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BGrifter posted:Yeah I've finally turned the corner on this season. Everyone is terrible, the season sucks, burn it all down. Worst season since One World. No no no, everyone is terrible but this season is GLORIOUS. Sure, I enjoy seasons with really intelligent players attempting to outwit each other, but every once in a while a season of Chaos Cass and the Super Cop is a fun diversion. At least, I sure haven't been disappointed yet, at least one hilariously stupid idea a week.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:54
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They're terrible but they've been an entertaining form of terrible. This ain't One World. I'm having more fun with this season than I had with the last Fans vs Favorites aside from the Three Amigos. I think people who wring their hands about all newbie seasons are wasting their energy anyway. That ship has sailed. Personally I think the way they've been doing it lately is the best of both worlds. Do an all newbie season, then do a half and half season, then do a handful of vets with a majority of newbies, then another half and half, then another all new. Follow that basic formula and you're introducing 50 or 60 new players every five years while returning half that in veteran favorites who not only have fanbases and some quantifiable entertainment value but tend to play better games. Then throw in an All Star season when you think you have enough worthwhile characters.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:57
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Ugh, no. I hate seeing vets play with newbies. The first FvF was decent, but the vets have too much of an edge. Besides, they end up shoehorning in questionable returnees, like B.Hantz and loving Candice. If they keep it to all-Star seasons, the anticipation gets ramped up and the players go in on a level playing field. Pre-game alliances will always be an issue, but at least this way everybody has equal opportunity collusion.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:00
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blue squares posted:I think there's some deliberate rhetoric being used in this post. LJ didn't just find an idol, he inferred that Morgan must have been off in that area because she was looking for one and then he found it, without a clue, where it was under three feet of water. Then, he didn't stick around just because "uh... Trish liked him," but because he came into a tribe as a significant minority after the swap but he played a good social game in that he got Trish to like him, which made Tony like him enough to give him an idol. Then, he had the balls to not play his idol when it looked like he was very close to being voted out. Yeah, I'd say LJ and Trish are the best players so far. Tasha and Spencer have had some real good moments but it's hard to tell just how good they are as players when they keep getting slammed with such unpredictability and craziness. And I agree, Tony is the best.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:02
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An interesting quote from the Sarah interview (and possible jury spoiler.) Sarah lists her best friends from the game. "Morgan is the (expletive deleted). Between her, Trish, and Jefra, those are my best friends from the show." Given how little we've seen them interact on the show, definitely sounds like jury house friendships.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:10
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I think this season is probably half incredibly dumb players and the other half are potentially good players who can't get off the ground because the dumb ones are exceptionally dumb.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:35
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blue squares posted:I think there's some deliberate rhetoric being used in this post. LJ didn't just find an idol, he inferred that Morgan must have been off in that area because she was looking for one and then he found it, without a clue, where it was under three feet of water. Then, he didn't stick around just because "uh... Trish liked him," but because he came into a tribe as a significant minority after the swap but he played a good social game in that he got Trish to like him, which made Tony like him enough to give him an idol. Then, he had the balls to not play his idol when it looked like he was very close to being voted out. I mean, I think it's debatable how much he actually did to save himself post-swap, but the main point I was trying to make is that he's got two moments to hang his hat on, neither of which was particularly compelling television to me (aside from not playing the idol, which was, like, 45 seconds of screentime). Beyond that, he's just a non-entity personality wise. Are there people here who would really be psyched to see a bunch of players in the mold of LJ make the technically sound decision at every point in the game? I'm not a person who loves people who dominate challenges, and I don't necessarily like people who are "puppetmasters," but I can underset the mindset of people who are specifically into that. Likewise, I can understand why people wouldn't like the trainwrecks/insane people/terrible strategists. Rooting for a television character primarily because they are rational, though, is weird to me. savinhill posted:Tasha and Spencer have had some real good moments but it's hard to tell just how good they are as players when they keep getting slammed with such unpredictability and craziness. My favorite thing about both Tasha and Spencer's story is that they've continually been stonewalled by insane, unpredictable circumstances while also remaining in a position to make it far in the game. Usually people who get hosed over like this are done early, or it doesn't keep on happening to them. The closest thing I can remember to this is Matty, who swung back and forth based on Sugar's whims and had the (probable) victory snatched away from him at the last possible minute, but he seemed to be part of the season's collective insanity more than Tasha and Spencer have been. The scene of Tasha exasperatedly trying to mediate between Kass and Sarah, and explaining to Sarah that it didn't really matter if Kass didn't like her, was great. The fact that Kass used that specific conversation as a launching pad to even more insanity is really remarkable. xbilkis fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 19:43
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Kass is a really, really horrible player. Sarah too. But I'm really enjoying the season. So whatever.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:46
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What I find interesting is that aside from the mandatory 4-5 lingering shots of her jugs per episode Morgan is essentially getting a Brenda edit. I can't remember the last confessional she had (maybe episode 3 when they tried to swing Jeremiah?), have no idea who are her close allies, no indication of what her strategy is... I don't think she's a contender. Alexis also said as much in one of her exit interviews last week that Morgan has no real connections with the rest of the tribe. It's pretty disappointing because I thought after her gambit with the idol clue in the first episode that she might skew closer to a Parvati type but guess not.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:55
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Personally I thought the praise she got for the idol lie was really overblown. She knew enough to lie about the idol clue, that's not super clever. I thought her lie was pretty sloppy and would unravel as soon as the Beauties were able to compare notes with another tribe (which it did) and let's not forget she failed to find the clue despite Garrett finding one and LJ finding it with just a vague idea of the clue. Morgan has just never really shown much even besides her apparently terrible social game.Propaganda Machine posted:Ugh, no. I hate seeing vets play with newbies. The first FvF was decent, but the vets have too much of an edge. Besides, they end up shoehorning in questionable returnees, like B.Hantz and loving Candice. I'm not a big fan of the vet vs newbie format because as you said the vets just tend to kick rear end. I'd much prefer they mix the tribes so there was an even number of vets and newbs on each tribe. It still might result in vet vs newbies but at least that would take a few Councils to develop and give the newbies a chance to acclimate themselves. But I don't know what to tell you. I enjoy watching familiar players I enjoy or like. I also enjoy watching players getting their second shot who learn from their first go around. I also enjoy watching new people. Fans vs Favorites isn't perfect but its the way to hit all those notes. It's just going to suck if you don't want those things.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:09
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Spencer and Tasha are becoming like the nerd version of Malcolm and Denise I'm definitely a Spencer fan (blar blar neckbeard goonsay) and he is in a lot of trouble all of a sudden if he doesn't win or find immunity
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Apr 3, 2014 20:09
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Toaster Ding posted:Spencer and Tasha are becoming like the nerd version of Malcolm and Denise Not even a little bit. The only similarity is that one has a penis and the other does not. This thread is making me hate Spencer so much. At first I liked him, because I too am a young white mildly nerdy male, but he has done NOTHING worth praising aside from make logical statements and then get blindsided. Spencer sucks. gently caress.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:16
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