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Quest For Glory II posted:Not only would I have bought a more powerful system but more developers would support the system. From the very beginning developers did not want to work with Wii U, so when sales were slow it gave them every reason to completely shun the console. Day 1, no, day zero, it was.. no Frostbite engine, no UE4, no CryEngine, etc. Nintendo was left with UE3 and Unity. And also the fact that it did not use the same x86 architecture as the other systems, making multi-platform support more complicated. I'd laugh, and laugh, and laugh if the next Nintendo home system is Power PC based.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:05
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It's a really terrible feedback loop where third parties aren't interested in developing games for it because of the super low install base of the console compared to everything else and then this causes less people to buy the console because it has like five games coming out for it this year.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:08
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Lemming posted:Because things cost money and if you're not using the capabilities of the thing you shouldn't pay extra for no reason. Capacitive screens are easier to keep clean so they keep your device looking nicer and newer, and I'm not sure if resistive screens are still actually cheaper to produce. Could be, but supply and demand for capacitive is through the roof these days while only Nintendo stuff really uses resistive screens. To my knowledge, anyway. Even ATMs in my buttfuck town are using capacitive screens. I know we're getting pedantic here, and we both love Nintendo games and using styluses, but are resistive screens really in enough production to keep their costs low? Wouldn't their prices be climbing due to such little demand and therefore such little production, or does Nintendo have some kind of in-house operation that's keeping their prices down?
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Apr 3, 2014 18:08
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They also expected the Gamepad to be the next "gotta have it" Christmas gift. But here's what makes it bad on more levels than just the cost factor. The Wii was extremely accessible to people who are not capable of playing super-twitchy games. You 'get it' when you pick up a Wii Remote and make a swinging motion of a baseball bat. Those people don't like buttons, so now Nintendo comes out with a new system and it's about buttons. Nintendo basically took a step backwards. They proposed motion control as the future of gaming, and then dropped it. Yes, games support it, but it's no longer The Default. They want the same people who don't understand traditional gaming control, to use traditional gaming control. So.. they do that, but why? To appeal to more traditional game players? But then why go so cheap on the hardware and alienate all the developers? You can't say "now we're all about the 'core gamers'" (one of Nintendo's favorite phrases) but then... bad hardware, no third party support, awful ports and New Super Mario is the launch title. Completely mixed messages being sent out from the beginning. It ended up being a bad compromise.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:11
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Nintendo hosed up when they never made a proper sword fighting game for the Wii. There I said it.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:12
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Quest For Glory II posted:They also expected the Gamepad to be the next "gotta have it" Christmas gift. But here's what makes it bad on more levels than just the cost factor. The Wii was extremely accessible to people who are not capable of playing super-twitchy games. You 'get it' when you pick up a Wii Remote and make a swinging motion of a baseball bat. Those people don't like buttons, so now Nintendo comes out with a new system and it's about buttons. Nintendo basically took a step backwards. They proposed motion control as the future of gaming, and then dropped it. Yes, games support it, but it's no longer The Default. They want the same people who don't understand traditional gaming control, to use traditional gaming control. These people are also iPad owners so I'm guessing they figured "hey they like tablets so lets give them a vidgam tablet!" but it has buttons and doesn't feature Wii Sports Golf and all the games are still loving expensive next to Zynga Golf Masterz or whatever that they already have on their iPad because tablets play casual games, so  Blacktoll posted:Nintendo hosed up when they never made a proper sword fighting game for the Wii. There I said it. For what it's worth, Sports Champions on PS3 with Move has a swordfighting game that's kind of fun and very well made, you should give it a shot if you get the chance.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:14
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Nintendo is not going to take the Gamepad out because they would have to redesign, reprogram, and test the system menu. This isn't Microsoft, that's never going to happen. The system menu will only get small patches to remove bugs and fix exploits that allow homebrew or piracy.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:30
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The system menu already works with a Wii Remote so making it work with a pro controller is not a big deal, the original Wii Menu supported both the Wii Remote and Classic Controller so they already know that poo poo. If the system is powered on by the pro controller, have the menu appear on the TV. This isn't about 'effort' though, because saving Wii U requires hard work no matter what, there is no "no effort" solution. Nintendo isn't going to do it because they would rather sink with the ship and stay true to their principle, or at least Iwata does. It has nothing to do with the amount of work involved.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:35
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I really wanna know what exactly they thought would happen when they put out an underpowered console that was 100 bucks too much because of an accessory with pretty niche appeal. All of this with the least third party support they've ever had and an online system that hasn't even caught up to what the 360/PS3 had when they launched like seven years ago. God they are just so loving clueless.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:39
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Monkey Fracas posted:I really wanna know what exactly they thought would happen when they put out an underpowered console that was 100 bucks too much because of an accessory with pretty niche appeal. All of this with the least third party support they've ever had and an online system that hasn't even caught up to what the 360/PS3 had when they launched like seven years ago. You're describing what people thought about the Wii upon release. Nintendo just thought they could catch lightning in a bottle again without ever really analysing why the Wii was eventually a runaway success.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:54
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seizure later posted:You're describing what people thought about the Wii upon release. Nintendo just thought they could catch lightning in a bottle again without ever really analysing why the Wii was eventually a runaway success. That and they probably thought that the next gen systems wouldn't be out until later this year/the next.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:58
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Quest For Glory II posted:The system menu already works with a Wii Remote so making it work with a pro controller is not a big deal, the original Wii Menu supported both the Wii Remote and Classic Controller so they already know that poo poo. If the system is powered on by the pro controller, have the menu appear on the TV. This isn't about 'effort' though, because saving Wii U requires hard work no matter what, there is no "no effort" solution. Nintendo isn't going to do it because they would rather sink with the ship and stay true to their principle, or at least Iwata does. It has nothing to do with the amount of work involved. We've gone over this before, but it create a huge mess of incompatibility where virtually every single game will need to be patched. I think patching the operating system of the Wii U is not the concern at all. It's all those games that require the Game Pad to be turned on and used for even that most basic function that will need to be patched. Even simple games like The Cave would be broken because they decided to put the character switching on the Game Pad as a touch screen element. You can't force these companies to update all their games, and it's not as simple as a line of code that says "use the pro controller". You have a consumer that is already skeptical of buying the Wii U because of the lack of games. Now imagine telling them that they can get the system for $100 cheaper, and it will be incompatible with a large amount of games that are already on the market. While Nintendo would probably be good with their half dozen or so first party titles out there (although some of them such as Nintendo Land, Wario Ware and Wii Party being completely unplayable), third party developers are not even patching game breaking bugs in games like Arkham Origins.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:58
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seizure later posted:You're describing what people thought about the Wii upon release. Nintendo just thought they could catch lightning in a bottle again without ever really analysing why the Wii was eventually a runaway success. People thought the Wii was underpowered but it wasn't overpriced. 249 at launch was a great price for a family friendly console and as a secondary system to a 360/PS3/PC. 349 on the other hand....
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Apr 3, 2014 19:03
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Astro7x posted:We've gone over this before, but it create a huge mess of incompatibility where virtually every single game will need to be patched. I think patching the operating system of the Wii U is not the concern at all. It's all those games that require the Game Pad to be turned on and used for even that most basic function that will need to be patched. Even simple games like The Cave would be broken because they decided to put the character switching on the Game Pad as a touch screen element. Also, what games. Seriously, the launch titles? THERE ARE BARELY ANY THIRD-PARTY TITLES ON THIS SYSTEM. And nobody is buying the ones that exist.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:05
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seizure later posted:You're describing what people thought about the Wii upon release. Maybe thought about before release, but the immediate reaction to booting up a Wii U and playing Nintendo Land doesn't even slightly compare to the Wii/Wii Sports experience. That's the difference between the two: one of them was a new and exciting experience, the other was 'oh it has a screen in the controller, weird'
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Apr 3, 2014 19:05
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Quest For Glory II posted:We're not talking about anything that's ever going to happen. They're not going to do poo poo. In the mystic realm where Nintendo did do poo poo, I say they beam the Wii U second screen to any phone or tablet. It's a moot point anyway cause a WiiU gamepad less SKU is not going to save the system. A Mario Kart 8 SKU is not going to save the system. A Price cut is not going to save the system. It's dead and buried, Nintendo really needs to move on and make sure the next home platform doesn't suck. Trying to save the WiiU is just going to be a waste of money in the end.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:11
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Yeah I mean the best course of action is to shout MULLIGAN and launch a new, actually forward-thinking system, but Nintendo's not going to do that either.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:13
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How much longer do they need to keep the thing on life support to make sure consumer confidence in their consoles doesn't completely collapse?
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Apr 3, 2014 19:13
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The Wii did have a lot of promise. This video in particular was really extraordinary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEKCetCeibs In one two minute video, they show 100 amazing, brand new things you can do with the remote. In retrospect, all of that stuff barely worked and everyone hates it now, but at the time it was pretty mind-blowing. They never tried this hard to show all of the things you could do with the Wii U gamepad... possibly because it's simply a less interesting controller. Here's the Wii U equivalent video... they show half the number of ideas, and a good number of the original ideas (painting, showing a picture on a TV) could already be done with any smartphone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Lc2y7M5rE edit: Laughing at the example where they literally put the tablet on the floor and then have fun swinging a Wii remote. A perfect microcosm for the system. Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 19:14
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Monkey Fracas posted:How much longer do they need to keep the thing on life support to make sure consumer confidence in their consoles doesn't completely collapse?
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Apr 3, 2014 19:18
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The best timeline would be to have the WiiU ride out holdiay 2014, have Nintendo use it to test some working Netcode/OS and than launch a new system Holiday 2015. They could have it shamble to early 2016 if they maybe have something else in the pipeline to boost sales (maybe a new portable system?) but if they try to wait till Holiday 16 than they'll be in real trouble. Edit: Of course this being Nintendo they'll pick the worst option!
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Apr 3, 2014 19:22
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Quest For Glory II posted:I feel like that's sunk cost fallacy at its finest. No one will remember a prior disaster if you knock it out of the park on the next one. But they'd need new leadership first. I guess they're going to need some time to actually get back on their feet and figure out how to develop a console suitable for the current era anyways. Hopefully they've been thinking about it and trying to learn for a while now. As for the "not remembering a disaster" aspect of this there are a whole slew of people who still don't know the thing exists so they've actually got a built-in advantage on that one I guess.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:23
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You guys are severely underestimating how much it costs to put out a new console.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:23
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Their next console should be a micro-console like the Fire TV. They can't seem to get proper third party support from the big guns, but they're actually doing a really good job getting support from indies. Indie games don't need $300 hardware to run, and neither do Nintendo games, honestly. Wii-level graphics in HD would be much cheaper and quicker to churn out games on. It would be more appealing for Japanese developers in general, too. Nintendo's strength is in making weak hardware look great with their exceptional art design, anyway. Make the games digital-only, with prices that vary between free to $35 or so for Mario Kart 9. They keep talking about their surprisingly strong eshop sales as well as new ways to price games and a unified Nintendo OS, it just makes a lot of sense. They can also sell a hand-held version that plays the same games, maybe with support for cross-buy and cross-saves.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:24
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Kirios posted:You guys are severely underestimating how much it costs to put out a new console. Less than what it will cost Nintendo to keep supporting the WiiU for a console generation.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:36
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Polo-Rican posted:In one two minute video, they show 100 amazing, brand new things you can do with the remote. In retrospect, all of that stuff barely worked and everyone hates it now, but at the time it was pretty mind-blowing. They never tried this hard to show all of the things you could do with the Wii U gamepad... possibly because it's simply a less interesting controller. It's really a shame there are not more ideas that you can do with the Game Pad. I think that the asymetrical gameplay stuff in Nintendoland and Wii Party U is really fun though. I can't remember the last time I had as much fun playing something as simple as Mario Chase, Luigi's Ghost Mansion and Animal Crossing Sweet Day. Wii Party U was supposed to be a showcase of more ideas of what they could do, and it didn't even do it that well. There are some really unique ideas in there (like the one where you set traps on a grid), but you can tell they are really reaching and ran out of ideas.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:52
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Polo-Rican posted:Here's the Wii U equivalent video... they show half the number of ideas, and a good number of the original ideas (painting, showing a picture on a TV) could already be done with any smartphone. I want that Wii U in the video that doesn't actually exist in real life. The one with the zapper attachment and the 1:1 hold-it-up-to-the-TV technology. Seriously though, that zapper. Where's my Silent Scope game for Wii U?
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Apr 3, 2014 19:53
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Astro7x posted:It's really a shame there are not more ideas that you can do with the Game Pad. I think that the asymetrical gameplay stuff in Nintendoland and Wii Party U is really fun though. I can't remember the last time I had as much fun playing something as simple as Mario Chase, Luigi's Ghost Mansion and Animal Crossing Sweet Day. Yeah, it's probably rife with neat things you could do with it but hell if we've seen any of those in an actual game. Best thing it's done so far is replace the pause screen/map screen.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:56
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Bass Bottles posted:Their next console should be a micro-console like the Fire TV. They can't seem to get proper third party support from the big guns, but they're actually doing a really good job getting support from indies. Indie games don't need $300 hardware to run, and neither do Nintendo games, honestly. Wii-level graphics in HD would be much cheaper and quicker to churn out games on. It would be more appealing for Japanese developers in general, too. Nintendo's strength is in making weak hardware look great with their exceptional art design, anyway.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:02
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They've certainly proven that they can't really compete with Sony and Microsoft on the big console turf so going after a completely different market segment seems like a good idea. I mean that's kiiinnnda what they've been doing the past two consoles anyways, they just need to get a little more creative.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:08
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Monkey Fracas posted:they just need to get a little more creative. Don't say that, they'll make their next console VR-only or something ludicrous.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:10
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TaurusOxford posted:Less than what it will cost Nintendo to keep supporting the WiiU for a console generation. What? No. The R&D, partnerships, contracts and long term agreements far outweigh whatever they'd lose supporting the WiiU. There's an immense amount of money and time spent in creating a new console and the longer a console is out, supposedly the better returns are on it.. assuming it's successful.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:14
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Every Wii U Tu comes with an omnidirectional treadmill, a motion capture suit, and a VR headset. The headset uses CRT screens.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:19
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Louisgod posted:What? No. The R&D, partnerships, contracts and long term agreements far outweigh whatever they'd lose supporting the WiiU. There's an immense amount of money and time spent in creating a new console and the longer a console is out, supposedly the better returns are on it.. assuming it's successful. people still don't realize you don't just drop a console like hot garbage and they'll continue to assume the wiiu will be "abandoned" as if this was a sane loving business tactic, even though a saner one would be to probably fire whoever is in marketing plus the all-too-likely demotion of Iwata
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Apr 3, 2014 20:27
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They're working on R&D already, they said as such in their investor briefing at the beginning of the year. They always start early on that, that money is already being spent. The Gameboy Advance was released in June of 2001; The Nintendo DS? It was announced in 2003. Yes, that soon after. Not by its given name, of course, but both the DS and Gamecube had launched in 2001 and here Nintendo was already announcing a new system just 2 years in. So it's something they've done before. AT THE TIME they said it would be a "third pillar" and of course that turned out to be BS. They were just really unhappy about GBA sales I guess!! The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 20:31
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Quest For Glory II posted:They're working on R&D already, they said as such in their investor briefing at the beginning of the year. They always start early on that, that money is already being spent. The Gameboy Advance was released in June of 2001; The Nintendo DS? It was announced in 2003. Yes, that soon after. Not by its given name, of course, but both the DS and Gamecube had launched in 2001 and here Nintendo was already announcing a new system just 2 years in. So it's something they've done before. The point is that it's not in their best interest to completely abandon the WiiU considering all the money they've put into it and how after a few years the ROI eventually pays off ASSUMING it's even remotely successful.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:43
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Quest For Glory II posted:The Gameboy Advance was released in June of 2001; The Nintendo DS? It was announced in 2003. Yes, that soon after. Not by its given name, of course, but both the DS and Gamecube had launched in 2001 and here Nintendo was already announcing a new system just 2 years in. So it's something they've done before. At the time the DS was supposed to be the "Third Pillar" where the DS would live in harmony with the Game Boy and whatever Console is out at the time. That never happened, but when they announced it that was the strategy they had in mind. Yes, Nintendo thought that they would be able to sustain two handhelds at once. Game Boy Advance was only out 3 1/2 years before the DS was released.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:44
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The Wii U will likely end up doing Gamecube-esque numbers and will generate Nintendo very little profit, but profit none-the-less. It will never be the money sink the Playstation 3 was, or even the original Xbox for example.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:45
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Kirios posted:The Wii U will likely end up doing Gamecube-esque numbers and will generate Nintendo very little profit, but profit none-the-less. It will never be the money sink the Playstation 3 was, or even the original Xbox for example. Aren't they already losing money per system sold at the moment?
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Apr 3, 2014 20:47
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I think that they would continue to 'support' it in some sense. I mean the Gameboy Advance wasn't abandoned with the release of the DS, it just did not have a very long life for a handheld (less than 5 years), and most of Nintendo's efforts shifted over pretty quickly. The Wii U at this point is solely a device to play Nintendo games, and not many at that... I don't think that would change either way. The focus on the next system would be trying to salvage relationships with these publishers and studios. And yes, they're losing more money now than they were at launch since the price slash, which is why they haven't slashed the price further. They are not making a profit, that's already in evidence.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:48
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