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STAC Goat posted:Again, we're not saying Spencer's a bad player. We're saying he's a mediocre one.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:22
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blue squares posted:Not even a little bit. The only similarity is that one has a penis and the other does not. I definitely wouldn't say he sucks but I also think he's pretty overrated (probably because in comparison to the erratic idiots he's been surrounded by since day 1 he's basically Boston Rob). On the other hand, the impression I've gotten from the exit interviews thus far is that he's playing a phenomenal social game and he's been strong in challenges so maybe it's deserved.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:24
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STAC Goat posted:Agreed. LJ's played an ok game so far but is kind of just one of the best players this season because the pool is so poor. He could go on to do more and make a lasting impression but if he were to be evicted next week I'd have no desire at all to see him back as an All Star, Favorite, Hero/Villain, or whatever. Aerox posted:An interesting quote from the Sarah interview (and possible jury spoiler.) Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 20:29
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Fast Luck posted:I've made a few posts saying he's getting too much attention, but I wouldn't say he's a mediocre player. His story isn't over yet, it's not time to make that kind of pronouncement. From what I've seen so far, I'd say his play has been "solid" which sounds a bit better than mediocre. His most memorable moments, though, are basically his Cochran-Lite confessionals. Outside of that, you could compare him to Woo and they come up pretty much even (so far). Sure, that's cool. I'm happy to amend my statement to "Spencer has been a mediocre player to this point". He certainly could do good stuff and he hasn't given me reason to think he's incapable of being a good player. He just hasn't done anything to show he can be either. And yeah, I'd say the same basic thing about Woo. I'd rank him higher than Spencer because of his obvious physical advantage and success in challenges but overall I wouldn't put his game play to this point as much above "mediocre." Or middling. Or unexceptional. Or average. Whatever synonym we're most comfortable with. How about "middle of the pack"? That's the one I really like because I think of Spencer as right there in the middle with Woo, Tasha, Jeremiah, and all the other indistinguishable players who could go next week or make it to the end if they play well enough. Which is probably why I react to people when they put him as above the fray because I don't see any reason to give him that elevation.
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Apr 3, 2014 20:38
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Fast Luck posted:Did Sarah make the jury? I don't think she did? Do pre-jury boots go somewhere different than jury boots?
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Apr 3, 2014 20:50
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Jeff didn't say "Our first member of the jury" when she got voted out, did he? I'm not saying you're wrong, just wonder why Jeff left that out
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Apr 3, 2014 21:29
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Fast Luck posted:Jeff didn't say "Our first member of the jury" when she got voted out, did he? I'm not saying you're wrong, just wonder why Jeff left that out Yes, he did. He said exactly that.
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Apr 3, 2014 21:47
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STAC Goat posted:Personally I thought the praise she got for the idol lie was really overblown. She knew enough to lie about the idol clue, that's not super clever. I thought her lie was pretty sloppy and would unravel as soon as the Beauties were able to compare notes with another tribe (which it did) and let's not forget she failed to find the clue despite Garrett finding one and LJ finding it with just a vague idea of the clue. Morgan has just never really shown much even besides her apparently terrible social game. It worked, though. She's still in and Alexis is out. quote:I'm not a big fan of the vet vs newbie format because as you said the vets just tend to kick rear end. I'd much prefer they mix the tribes so there was an even number of vets and newbs on each tribe. It still might result in vet vs newbies but at least that would take a few Councils to develop and give the newbies a chance to acclimate themselves. That doesn't preclude keeping it to all stars only. Like I said, it makes returns more of something to look forward to than these groanworthy ownfests. I like to see second shots too, but newbies get screwed in unentertaining ways.
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Apr 3, 2014 22:35
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This pops up in nearly every reality show discussion, but I generally prefer all veteran or all new players. Part of the initial issue with Blood vs Water is that I didn't recognize half the returning players, so I was completely confused trying to figure out who had experience and who was new. I like all new seasons because I can hop in without any knowledge, but I also like all star seasons because I can go in KNOWING that I'm missing lots of backstory. Plus, all star games tend to be way more entertaining if they're not too often.
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Apr 4, 2014 00:52
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I don't mind confusing backstories as much as the horribly unbalanced skill levels. 50-50 mixes are unfair and make for bad seasons. Having 2 or 3 returning players is usually fine, but they don't add enough intrigue to balance the risk of Rob/Coach cults or idiots overreacting like Russell's Redemption Island tribe.
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Apr 4, 2014 01:36
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Having 2 or 3 returning players is usually fine, but they don't add enough intrigue to balance the risk of Rob/Coach cults or idiots overreacting like Russell's Redemption Island tribe. The problem is that the games basically orbit around the returning players and the new players don't get a chance to shine. I think all new players is the best, followed by all returning players. Having mixes is never good, it just creates unbalanced or uninteresting games.
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Apr 4, 2014 01:41
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I am so glad I decided to catch up with this season of Survivor. The last one I watched all the way through was Philippines, in part because I hated Redemption Island so much. Happy to see another season without it, just some good old fashioned Survivor. People say they love to watch Survivor seasons with brilliant masterminds, and a bunch of clever plans executed well. gently caress THAT. ChaosKass is everything. ChaosKass is Survivor. Quite often a bunch of idiots creating a clusterfuck leads to a better season. This isn't Nicaragua, where the stupid is also toxic, abrasive, and boring, to the point that a stoner surfer dude with insane luck won and nobody said he didn't deserve it (BECAUSE gently caress CHASE). We've got some great personalities here, and the fact that of them, only LJ and Tasha seem totally competent is immaterial. I have no idea why they continually cast boring nonentities like Jefra on the show, though. Although, maybe they saw that her last name was Bland, and decided it would be an AMAZING meta-joke. A pretty, boring blonde named Bland. how could that be unintentional. gently caress it, ranking the cast members in terms of apparent gameplay ability/ability to deliver should they make it to FTC/current position 1. LJ. To be honest a lot of it's just that he's lucked into a good position, but finding the immunity idol was pretty pro, as was cementing his bro-dom with Tony. Also in general he's low drama, giving him a huge advantage over most of the others. 2. Tasha. Likely to be gone within three tribal councils, BUT, and this is a big but, she's evidently got a pretty good social game, and in retrospect her moving to get Garrett out wasn't as dumb as it seemed. Her attempt at conflict resolution between Sarah and CHAOSKASS didn't work, but it would have worked with a sane person. Probably the one that really made the judgment call to keep Jeremiah and boot Alexis. 3. Trisha. She won't win (I mean, so many of her type have made the merge and gone on to an illustrious career as a jury member), but she made a smart play knowing she could get Tony to flip on Cliff, scared Lindsey into quitting  (okay, I know that's not what happened, but I like this version better), and most importantly triggered CHAOSKASS. 4. Tony. He isn't a good player...but, he isn't a bad one either. He's all over the map. I doubt he wins, but he will make an EXCELLENT bitter jury member, especially if LJ betrays him. He has potential to swing either way, but given that he has actual cunning, something most of the people lower on the list lack, I would bet he doesn't go down until final 6. He could go further, but he would need to get LJ before LJ gets him, and LJ has a charisma advantage, and a more stable temperament. 5. Spencer. I can't tell if Spencer's a good player, or just lucky. He's definitely been stuck with a bad hand, and played it better than some in a similar position, but he's no Malcolm. Tasha could build bridges, but I can't say the same of Spencer. The next episode is probably what decides if he sinks or rises (I doubt he's out, any sensible person could see Tasha's the threat). 6. Jeremiah. I might be underrating him, and I expect people will tell me I am, but although he seems reasonable and stable, he lacks cunning and is on the wrong side of the numbers. I guess he could repair his bridges with LJ and Jefra, but it does not seem likely. Mostly unlucky. If he reveals hidden depths, though, he could rise farther, but the edit really reeks of jury member to me. 7. Woo. Best potential to be an immunity beast. Surfer bros do have an advantage, and he's not even dumb, so he's definitely to be thought of as a potential challenge beast. 8. Morgan. I want her on the show as long as possible for obvious reasons, but her social game is crap. I don't dislike her (and it's got nothing to do with...those things), but it's clear several of the others hate her. 9. Jefra.  An excellent nonentity to drag to FTC. I hope LJ realizes his best play is dragging Jefra and CHAOSKASS to the end. However, if the game gets turned around, she'll be out really quickly. 10. CHAOSKASS. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha. I want her to win.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:10
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Kass is very bad at this game.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:32
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Fast Luck posted:I wouldn't condition that on "because the pool is so poor." I'd say LJ's played more or less perfectly so far, aside from the idol play (but even that might reap a strong bond with Tony). The main difference in terms of play between LJ and Spencer, though, is that LJ's been in a position of power for most of the game, and is in a position of power now, while Spencer hasn't enjoyed that position too much. I'm not sure if that means LJ is better, but it makes him look better. LJ won Tony's trust and they are now bros for life, so he def earned access to the spyshack, very minimum.
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Apr 4, 2014 03:55
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Yeah, and I think even if he didn't really think Tony was going to be voted out, it's difficult to let someone play an idol on your behalf when you've got your own in your pocket. That could get messy down the line when you pull the idol out. It was a crucial tribal, it increased his faction's odds in the vote, and it solidified a relationship. I hope they really do have a spyshack scene, that's the beach they're on, right?
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Apr 4, 2014 04:27
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Yeah Rob C was talking about that on Know-it-Alls. Tony is exactly the sort of guy who would go berserk if he found out LJ had an idol after the fact. Possibly good risk mitigation on LJ's part.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:49
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Sarah was talking in her exit interviews about how much she really wanted to get back and work with Trish. Considering she then refused to let the 6 vote out Trish, it's both funny that it was Trish who ended up flipping Kass, and another sign that Trish might be a player despite the childish feuding with Lindsey.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:54
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Morgan: I think Alexis was the only person who really didn't like her, and that got dealt with in short order because she was much more savvy. Good on her. Tony: he really turned my opinion around this past episode. I think he's just enthusiastic about the game, and would/will be a decent jury member. I kind of actually wouldn't mind seeing him win at this point. Spencer: he's no Malcom, no. He's going to an actual university and getting an actual degree. Malcom is bro-ing it up in one of LA's beach cities. He's in a dangerous spot at the moment, but I haven't seen him make any mistakes yet. Honestly, it's kudos to his game that he aligned with the second boot and is still around.
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Apr 4, 2014 06:29
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Fast Luck posted:Sarah was talking in her exit interviews about how much she really wanted to get back and work with Trish. Considering she then refused to let the 6 vote out Trish, it's both funny that it was Trish who ended up flipping Kass, and another sign that Trish might be a player despite the childish feuding with Lindsey. Trish definitely knows how to capitalize off an opportunity. http://www.dishstudios.com/ quote:Learn about Dish Studios
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Apr 4, 2014 07:47
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Curtis of Nigeria posted:Trish definitely knows how to capitalize off an opportunity. It helps that CBS aired footage of her being a good, encouraging instructor.
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Apr 4, 2014 09:06
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I never say that someone made a bad move until that person actually leaves the game....so that means that I won't be able to figure out if this latest Kass manoeuvre was good or bad for her. Remember kids, there is no "wrong" way to win Survivor, because winning is all that matters. As for Spencer. I can't stop laughing. He's in this position because he allied with a player that changes her vote/alliance every other tribal, and he somehow thought she was the "obvious" pick waaaay back in episode 2 (over Tasha, who has been playing like Hell all season). The little poo poo deserves it. Tony is awesome, his ability to observe and gently caress with people is top-notch and he is like some kind of shark in that he never stops moving. Trish is also great. She got rid of Cliff (and Lindsey), and then nailed where the weak-spot was in the alliance of 6. Beautiful plays, beautiful season, death to all returning players. EDIT: The Brains still aren't voted out yet, so I still stand by my earlier comment that voting out all their strong males was a fine decision.
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Apr 4, 2014 12:10
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I never say that someone made a bad move until that person actually leaves the game....so that means that I won't be able to figure out if this latest Kass manoeuvre was good or bad for her. Remember kids, there is no "wrong" way to win Survivor, because winning is all that matters. Ok, but then we'd have nothing to talk about until the finale.
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Apr 4, 2014 14:26
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This season is certainly giving us plenty to talk about. I'm just saying that I reserve my judgement on HOW a person played overall until after the finale. Like, for example, I'm enjoying the hell out of Tony's constant bombardment style of play, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea until I see if he wins. In the same way, I'm shocked by Kass's decision, but if she wins then it was, by definition, a good move. That's why I hold back on calling anything a "bad" move. Because sometimes a dumbass surfer/underwear model/stoner wins by just being not deplorable on a season of deplorable people and so that was the "right way" to win that season.
Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 15:15
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Anonymous Zebra posted:This season is certainly giving us plenty to talk about. I'm just saying that I reserve my judgement on HOW a person played overall until after the finale. Like, for example, I'm enjoying the hell out of Tony's constant bombardment style of play, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea until I see if he wins. In the same way, I'm shocked by Kass's decision, but if she wins then it was, by definition, a good move. That's why I hold back on calling anything a "bad" move. Because sometimes a dumbass surfer/underwear model/stoner wins by just being not deplorable on a season of deplorable people and so that was the "right way" to win that season.
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Apr 4, 2014 16:17
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The idea that the result is all that matters is terrible to begin with. If you go all in every hand with a seven/deuce offsuit and pull a miracle out of your rear end it was still the wrong play, you just got lucky. Similarly if you're say Ozzy and get yourself intentionally voted out to go compete at Redemption Island and get lucky, you're still an idiot. If some weird plague struck down every other person on the beach and Kass won because the rest of the cast got medevaced it was still a terrible play and she's still a terrible player.
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Apr 4, 2014 16:59
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Yeah, I understand what Zebra is saying and I certainly understand the idea of moves looking more reasonable when you see the big picture, but in Survivor as well as any game there are high percentage moves and low percentage moves. If you're playing blackjack and you have 20 then its stupid to hit, even if you get an ace. Results are one thing but if there absolutely is a difference between a good move and a bad move in terms of odds and variables. The odds and variables don't always work out like expected so sometimes "bad moves" turn out to work but that doesn't mean you should just start throwing away the logic behind decision making.
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Apr 4, 2014 17:11
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I guess I really don't watch the show to just see my "favorite" player win (not that I don't have favorites), but also to enjoy seeing HOW the person that does win pulls it off. I've never been disappointed in a winner because each person does it in their own unique way based on how the game changes. You can't pick "odds" for moves in a game like this, especially when the rules change so often and most of the variables aren't cards in a deck, but other people. In any case, I've been in these threads long enough to see people here post about how terrible a person is all the way to the million only to complain that they are "undeserving" or a "lovely winner" as if that makes the money they get any less real, or the title of Sole Survivor any less true. EDIT: The fact that people still use loving Boston "Lost more games than any other player" Rob as an example of a mastermind rather than the long list of actual mastermind winners still shows how caught up people can get in thinking someone is deserving of a win. Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 17:17
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See, off the top of my head there's not one winner I'd say was "undeserving". To get to the end and win you have to have done SOMETHING right. Natalie may not have been a mastermind but she grasped a part of the game that Russell never has, the social game. And if she recognized that she could ride Russell's strategic coattails to the end then that was a pretty solid plan. Fabio may have just won because he wasn't a piece of poo poo, but that in itself is part of the game. I'm always critical of Cochran because I don't think he did a lot to get to the end, but the truth is he didn't have to and the game he played was good enough for the win. So there you go. But you seem to be taking it a step farther and concluding that all wins are created equally. That seems just weird to me. Winning a game 20-0 is different than winning a game 2-1. You can win, you can "get lucky", or you can "dominate." Tyson made mistakes last season and I thought he owed a lot to players like Cerie not acting quickly enough and a lucky break with the rocks, but he also had a lot of control over the game and made a lot of his own luck. That, to me, is more impressive than Cochran's win since Cochran was able to coast pretty much the entire way hiding behind bigger targets in a majority alliance. But both won. Both earned it in some way. If Kass gets to the end and convinces the majority to vote for her than OBVIOUSLY she would have done something impressive to pull that off. Maybe she repairs her relationships or maybe she manipulates people against each other or makes a convincing case that she made enough moves to dictate the direction of the game. But that doesn't mean each move made was a smart one when it was made. By every reasonable perspective we can see betraying her alliance was a bad move. It should piss off five people and shouldn't buy any real favor with the other five who don't really need her now. It can work out for her and she could maybe MAKE it work out with good gameplay. But winning doesn't mean you played the game flawlessly.
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Apr 4, 2014 17:51
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Propaganda Machine posted:Morgan: I think Alexis was the only person who really didn't like her, and that got dealt with in short order because she was much more savvy. Good on her. That's a good point, that Morgan being ostracized seems to have been down to Alexis. There's no indication LJ and Jefra particularly dislike her, IIRC. Also Morgan could have held a grudge against Jeremiah for not flipping when she asked him, but the fact that he was even considering flipping makes him more valuable than the person utterly dedicated to ousting her and incapable of hiding that fact. I think you missed the point when I said Spencer's no Malcolm. If you think going to a university and getting a degree has ANY relationship with Survivor skills, you're massively delusional. For example, ChaosKass is a college graduate successful lawyer, and WELP. Spencer lacks the physical and social presence of Malcolm, and doesn't seem to have made any effort to build relationships on the other side. Malcolm would have won Philippines if he'd gotten to FTC. Really, Spencer is more of a weak Stephen without a JT.
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Apr 4, 2014 20:11
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STAC Goat posted:See, off the top of my head there's not one winner I'd say was "undeserving". To get to the end and win you have to have done SOMETHING right. Natalie may not have been a mastermind but she grasped a part of the game that Russell never has, the social game. And if she recognized that she could ride Russell's strategic coattails to the end then that was a pretty solid plan. Fabio may have just won because he wasn't a piece of poo poo, but that in itself is part of the game. I'm always critical of Cochran because I don't think he did a lot to get to the end, but the truth is he didn't have to and the game he played was good enough for the win. So there you go.
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Apr 4, 2014 20:55
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Kass made a spectacularly bad play by undermining the her alliance. Sarah was obviously an emotionally needy player, who as others pointed out, wasn't looking for hard info or idols from anyone, but instead who she felt pandered/responded to her better. Kass totally blew it with her, since what COULD have happened is the minority alliance all votes for Sarah but she stays and Jefra goes. In this case, Sarah is NEVER going to flip and NEVER going to vote any of those remaining four for the million. She's a lock for whoever can pick her up out of the six majority, because she would have felt personally burned by Tony & Co. Kass should have seen this. What a blunder. Still, that was a highly entertaining tribal council. Virtually everyone there miscalculated how it would turn out... hilarious.
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Apr 4, 2014 21:49
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Spatula City posted:That's a good point, that Morgan being ostracized seems to have been down to Alexis. There's no indication LJ and Jefra particularly dislike her, IIRC. Also Morgan could have held a grudge against Jeremiah for not flipping when she asked him, but the fact that he was even considering flipping makes him more valuable than the person utterly dedicated to ousting her and incapable of hiding that fact. Morgan and LJ were enemies from the get go. LJ picked her at the beginning of the first episode as the first "elimination" and Morgan held a grudge about it and the original Beauty alliances basically stemmed from that. Morgan was bitter towards Jeremiah too after his flip-flopping and it was only when the tribes got shuffled that she started chilling and playing a better social game. Jeremiah was the one that Alexis was lobbying against, and I think her elimination came more down to her known ties with LJ and Jefra than however she behaved towards Morgan or Jeremiah post-swap.
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Apr 4, 2014 22:25
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Spatula City posted:That's a good point, that Morgan being ostracized seems to have been down to Alexis. There's no indication LJ and Jefra particularly dislike her, IIRC. Also Morgan could have held a grudge against Jeremiah for not flipping when she asked him, but the fact that he was even considering flipping makes him more valuable than the person utterly dedicated to ousting her and incapable of hiding that fact. I was Spatula City posted:That's a good point, that Morgan being ostracized seems to have been down to Alexis. There's no indication LJ and Jefra particularly dislike her, IIRC. Also Morgan could have held a grudge against Jeremiah for not flipping when she asked him, but the fact that he was even considering flipping makes him more valuable than the person utterly dedicated to ousting her and incapable of hiding that fact. I was kidding about Malcolm, because I think those two have basically nothing in common. Spencer ain't no Shii-Ann, either 
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Apr 4, 2014 22:35
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That tribal council was pretty nuts. Honestly I thought there would be more people shuffling back into their old alliances. I don't think Kass will get very far because, regardless of whether her flipping was a good move for her, she kinda brought it on herself. She basically goes up to Sarah and says "So anyway I think you're disloyal and a liar. I am volunteering this information for no real reason. This is how I make conversation." Then doesn't seem to get why Sarah doesn't like her. She has done similar things earlier this season like telling people her alliance is going to vote for them. She seems to not really 'get' the game, like she is on the show and knows about who to vote off but when it comes to controlling what you say as part of a strategy she is blind. That puts her at a pretty big disadvantage. I used to hate Trish but I guess Ashley or whoever just brought out the worst in her. She was pretty smart this episode. She seems like the only person to think "what if we just try to flip more than one person, I could try for Kass."
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Apr 4, 2014 22:52
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Kass has been flip flopping for most of the game, I think she's really ruined it for herself and her alliance but it should make for an interesting season though.
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Apr 4, 2014 23:27
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One of the many things that sucks about Kass making such a disastrously bad decision is how it robbed us of a truly great Survivor moment. They successfully head faked TWO idols in one tribal and managed to target the right person on the fly. In a merge tribe of eleven people that's freaking awesome. Tasha, Spencer, Morgan, Sarah and Jeremiah deserve some credit for not showing their cards. Tony did a pretty good job of fishing for information between the idol reveal, asking Probst to verify it while watching their faces, then LJ had a shot to read them after Tony played his. It could be sheer luck but both Tony and LJ misread their entire tribe. I just realized something bizarre about the whole thing. If Kass is playing to work with the other side, why the hell didn't she speak up when Tony was playing his idol? Tony and LJ can't be happy she let them throw away their idols. Rob C might be on to something that she saw this as a strange way to try and get the Brains back with her.
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Apr 4, 2014 23:43
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Survivor Cagayan: Dreamz of Kass
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Apr 4, 2014 23:59
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Fast Luck posted:I think you're way underrating Cochran's game but you've never liked him. Didn't you find that he inserted himself into the perfect position, though? Everyone was coming to him with their information. Everyone trusted him. He was in the center of the game and yet he wasn't running out in front putting a target on his back. He played well both socially and strategically to manage these people in the right way to put himself safely at the end and to win in a landslide vote. I do kind of dislike Cochran but you're right, he obviously played a strong enough social game that he was trusted with information and allies. Like I said, I may not have liked him or enjoyed his game but I'd never say it was undeserving. Do I think he got lucky with his place in the game and cast he had? Yes. Do I think others in the same situation had a harder road because they posed more obvious threats than him? Absolutely. But he still pulled it off. That's something Dawn couldn't do. Obviously he outplayed her at the very least. It takes no small amount of gamesmanship to navigate Survivor even if you catch every break in the book. Even if you're handed every break there is you still have to not screw it up, and Cochran at least won a couple of challenges and factored into a couple of important moves. I just think Cochran got a relative "easy" path to there, "easy" of course being a poor word for what is a ridiculously difficult thing. Placed on a dominate tribe, that formed a dominate majority alliance, and there were half a dozen obvious threats being targeted the whole post merge game. Cochran was able to lay low and take advantage of these opportune breaks. But he DID take advantage of them and pull it off. He navigated the complicated social and strategic nature of the game as well as the rigorous physical, emotional, and psychological aspects of the game. So I'm not saying he's undeserving. I'm just saying all wins aren't created equal and Cochran would probably rank fairly low on my list of winners' games (In all honesty I just don't have a good enough memory of most past seasons to give fair evaluation of every winner since I've only seen each season once).
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Apr 5, 2014 00:42
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Strength of opposition definitely matters. I still think what Boston Rob did on All-Stars was more impressive despite the losing effort than the game he won on Redemption Island. Similarly and perhaps more controversially, Parvati's losing effort on Heroes vs Villains is one of the most impressive games in the history of the show. Possibly even better than her already impressive win in Micronesia. To play the game she did with a huge target on her back from day one against some of the best opposition in the history of the show is pretty mindblowing. She miscalculated near the end and let Sandra slide by too long, but the end result doesn't completely invalidate a remarkable game.
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Apr 5, 2014 00:59
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| # ? May 29, 2024 20:41 |
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Totally agreed. I'd probably put Parvati as the greatest of all time ahead of a two-time winner like Sandra based on gameplay. Sure, Sandra pulled off the two wins so is more successful and certainly near the top of the list, but Sandra's game was largely one about not rocking the boat too much and surviving each Council by finding each opening and not burning people enough to hurt your jury chances. Its a good and difficult way to play that has obviously worked for her but Parvati plays a much more proactive and complicated game, in large part to necessity since she was seen as such a devious and untrustworthy vixen by her peers. In the end the stuff Parv accomplished even in her "loss" ends up impressing me way more than Sandra's wins. Not that I don't love Sandra and safely rank her in my top 5 or 10 or maybe even #2. I've never actually seen Boston Rob's win but I think in general he deserves the credit he gets as one of the best players, "it took four tries" notwithstanding. I thought he played a pretty good game in Marquesas and got screwed by a twist even if he arguably made a mistake going the lazy route early and weakening his tribe. I thought his All Stars game was masterful even though it ultimately ended up him playing for Amber's win, but its clear at some stage he recognized that and was willing to kamikaze his game to get her there. In Heroes vs Villains he seemed to be doing a pretty drat good job managing the insane egos and treachery of the Villains including two mega powers in Parv and Russell until Tyson and Coach screwed it up. Just on those three "losses" I think he has one of the most impressive bodies of work of any non-winner in Survivor history. He wouldn't be my #1 but he'd probably be in contention for that #2 spot behind Parv.
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Apr 5, 2014 01:23
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