|
This is a simple vote! Sacrifice the slaves on the altar of El and Eat their Hearts Come on, people. Our time is now!
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 16:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 02:12 |
|
|
5/6/7/8 A (which is the same as BEIL anyways)
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 16:56
|
|
|
Hey, Diog, just to be sure - we could convince Lefkandi to accept the labor of new slaves we purchased while keeping to the deal between us, right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
B. E. I. L.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:06
|
|
|
Diog will any released slaves have a reasonable chance of getting a job? I get the impression they'll have no money and no notable skills with the exception of Hiddai.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
Option A - edit: which does in fact appear to be BEIL, so I guess I vote for that. Don't free our slaves. It will be way more trouble than it is worth. Tomn posted:
Agreed on the "voters not votes" part, I misread it. If anything that should give people even less to worry about, as it becomes even less likely we go see the witches. To your second part on those wanting to lessen or end the contact with Indor still - quite frankly they need to get over it. We have voted to hang with the witches occasionally, that was our last modified deal. It's going to occur. It just drags the whole thing down when people vote for something they think would be fun and people have to constantly bring up that they never wanted to do it. We get it. There have been decisions made previously in the course of this game that I have felt were not worth it or a poor choice - recently the whole not breathing thing I initially fought against. I fought it, lost, and I moved on. I accepted the consequences of the group decision and kept going forward. To have Indor constantly get railed against is beyond tiring when we have decided to have some contact with her. Task Manager fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:10
|
|
on Indor
|
Absum posted:Diog will any released slaves have a reasonable chance of getting a job? I get the impression they'll have no money and no notable skills with the exception of Hiddai. Pretty much. Plan JT Jag
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:10
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:5. B. We've made an agreement with Gaddiel and we'll hold to it. same
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
Watch us free them then have them sell themselves back into slavery because that's the only thing they know
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:13
|
|
|
A/BEIL
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
Option A
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:22
|
|
|
Option A
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:25
|
|
Absum posted:Diog will any released slaves have a reasonable chance of getting a job? I get the impression they'll have no money and no notable skills with the exception of Hiddai. The household slaves have no assets and have no means of support if you freed them, they will have to hope to find employers. If they can't they will likely sell themselves into slavery to feed themselves. The men have decent odds of finding work as laborers. Who wants to claim a penniless slave as a bride? The women have poor prospects. The pottery slaves are able bodied and have families they could return to, or perform manual labor. Gaddiel probably wants to stick with you.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
A
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
Voting Jessica BEIL as well. We treat our slaves well and it does nothing to free them without cause. The one slave it was affecting we took appropriate action on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
5 B 6 H offer them the same deal as Gaddiel and replace them to keep our income flowing. 7 K offer to free him immediately and to help set up a clinic in exchange for a cut of profits down the road if not the same kind of deal we have with Lefkandi. 8 Tomn posted:8. N: Offer them all the same deal, though at a reduced salary from the others mentioned. When free, keep half of them (if willing to work for us), and buy two new slaves under the same basic deal. Repeat as necessary to ensure that there are always at least two slaves Naomi can trust under the roof, though always working towards their freedom (at a rate calculated to be within our means and investments)
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
Task Manager posted:To your second part on those wanting to lessen or end the contact with Indor still - quite frankly they need to get over it. We have voted to hang with the witches occasionally, that was our last modified deal. It's going to occur. It just drags the whole thing down when people vote for something they think would be fun and people have to constantly bring up that they never wanted to do it. We get it. There have been decisions made previously in the course of this game that I have felt were not worth it or a poor choice - recently the whole not breathing thing I initially fought against. I fought it, lost, and I moved on. I accepted the consequences of the group decision and kept going forward. To have Indor constantly get railed against is beyond tiring when we have decided to have some contact with her. This argument seems disingenuous to me, I have to say. Sure, you "got over" the fact that you voted not to hold the breath. But what would happen if people began pushing to hold the breath once again? Would you not argue against doing so with the greatest of vehemence? Indor is an on-going concern with on-going risks, and one would argue that good judgment with such situations consists of knowing when to pull out and when to stay in. Besides which, it misses the fact that voting for O is voting to DEEPEN our on-going association with Indor. It is not "business as usual" as discussed with Indor. It is something above and beyond what was discussed and agreed to. I don't think it's unreasonable under those circumstances to argue vehemently against taking on greater risks than we've already agreed to. To illustrate the point overall, imagine that you heard this argument in Senate chambers: "Look, we ALREADY voted for a police action in Vietnam. It's done, it's dusted, it's agreed to, so stop whining about it. And since we already voted to conduct a police action in Vietnam, this country wants to do SOMETHING in Vietnam, so you should stop your opposition to our proposal to further increase the amount of troops, equipment, and funding devoted to Vietnam. It is so tiring to have to listen to you people complain each time we want to increase our involvement!" Also, to get back to what the thread is actually talking about now... Folks, I know I talk a lot, but look up my proposal earlier! By offering the slaves an indentured servitude plan, we can maintain our deal with Lefkandi, free the slaves (and future slaves on a regular basis), and suffer no more than a minor reduction in profitability! This is less viable for the household slaves, of course, as Diog explains, but that's why it's an offer - they can choose to accept the deal if they want to try chancing it outside, or they can turn it down if they feel they're better off with us. We have a chance to fulfill both our ethical AND our fiscal responsibilities now. Why turn it down?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:34
|
|
|
5. B 6. H, offer them a deal similar to the one Gaddiel got, buy new slaves for Lefkandi afterwards and offer them the same deal, repeat. 7. I, for now 8. L
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
A
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
A.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:39
|
|
|
Voting Tomns proposal. Because it's apparently the only one who might have a shot in hell of winning. Personally I'm all for freeing all of our slaves and hiring them for their own positions again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:40
|
|
|
I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of giving all of our slaves a way to buy themselves out of slavery if they want to work hard enough at it. It would be a good way to uplift the poorer segments of Zepath. In the case of the pottery guys, we need to make sure that they know that they will be responsible for teaching the next batch of slaves how to dig the dirt the right way before they are freed, to minimize our turnaround.Affi posted:Personally I'm all for freeing all of our slaves and hiring them for their own positions again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
Tomn posted:We have a chance to fulfill both our ethical AND our fiscal responsibilities now. Why turn it down? Is slavery an in-character ethical concern?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
Tomn posted:More I'm fine if people want to make passionate arguments using points on why people should not vote O for this vote. I love doing that myself on other votes for topics I feel strongly about, and would never want to deny someone their chance to do so. I think youre slightly missing my point. Im not arguing people should shut up and not debate spending more time with Indor as you outline in the Vietnam analogy. I'm stating that it is getting old to see contentless posts (which I dont consider yours to be, to be clear) that can largely be summed up by "I didnt want to see Indor anyways why are people voting that." That's what I mean when I say I think people voting to lessen or end contact need to get over it, because that much has been voted in and it adds nothing to the discussion. If someone wants debate on this vote like you are as to why voting O is bad news, im totally fine with that. Just add more to the discussion than negative thoughts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:45
|
|
|
myl
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:49
|
|
|
Affi posted:Voting Tomns proposal. Because it's apparently the only one who might have a shot in hell of winning. Bold your votes! For votes re: slavery, I vote Plan Tomn. For the pared down question #3: VLS, previously RRZ.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:52
|
|
|
5. B 6. H: Tomn option: Offer them the same deal Gaddiel got. Buy new slaves when they buy out their freedom to work for Lefkandi. 7. K - Ask him. He seems content with his lot, but maybe he wants more. I also like the clinic idea and possibly training/apprenticing others under him, if he's interested. I guess we could just order him to do it, but meh. 8. N: Modified Tomn option: Offer them all the same deal, though at a reduced salary from the others mentioned. When free, keep half of them (if willing to work for us), and buy two new slaves under the same basic deal. Repeat as necessary to ensure that there are always at least two slaves Naomi can trust under the roof, though always working towards their freedom (at a rate calculated to be within our means and investments). Also ensure that there is a very clear stipulation ensuring security is part of the duties of some of the servants. Pick and choose those with that aptitude or whatever, but if harm comes to the household, harm will come to them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
BEIL The claydiggers I am concerned for, surely there's some way we can improve their living conditions? There will always be clay diggers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
Task Manager posted:I'm fine if people want to make passionate arguments using points on why people should not vote O for this vote. I love doing that myself on other votes for topics I feel strongly about, and would never want to deny someone their chance to do so. Its been made clear dealing with Indor is very risky, but there's obviously a lot of people who are very passionate about doing it. Asking for clarification on what benefit they're hoping to see from the relationship doesn't really strike me as a 'negative thought.'
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 17:59
|
|
|
Changing from K L X to L L L B E I L Don't free anyone, let's not bankrupt ourselves.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:00
|
|
|
Cornuto posted:Is slavery an in-character ethical concern? If in-character concerns ever stopped us, we'd never have named our dog Snarls Barkley, Asahel "Billy," or our men "The Balls of Labaras." As far as I'm concerned, we goons can feel free to do whatever we feel is right, and if freeing the slaves on a basis on indentured servitude feels right to us, why then, let's buy ourselves a stovepipe hat and grow a beard! After all, nobody in Ur thinks freeing slaves is ethically or morally wrong, do they? Since they do not, the only question is this: Would you rather free slaves on an economically sustainable basis, or would you rather keep them? Task Manager posted:If someone wants debate on this vote like you are as to why voting O is bad news, im totally fine with that. Just add more to the discussion than negative thoughts. Well, certainly, but I bought that up because I doubted that people objected to O because "It looks like we'll be doing nothing but Indor!" I wanted to demonstrate that the objection to O was more because, being inherently opposed to dealings with Indor, they would naturally also be opposed to increasing those dealings at a higher level of risk, whether to a greater or lesser degree. Since not dealing with Indor right now carries no risk, but increasing involvement with Indor carries increased risk, it seems like the burden of proof for why it's a good idea falls largely on those voting for deepening involvement.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:01
|
|
Affi posted:Voting Tomns proposal. Because it's apparently the only one who might have a shot in hell of winning. The other three slaves cost you about(*) tens pounds of silver all together. If you plan to gradually sell them their freedom, who is paying their wage? You? (*)We started the game measuring wealth in terms labor of farmers and craftsmen. We transitioned to measuring wealth in the value of silver and livestock AS WELL as labor. The prices from before the transition are in a few places slightly off, this being one of them. A common slave is worth about three pounds of silver. Diogines fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 7, 2014 |
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:02
|
|
|
A Yay slaves 
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
Diogines posted:Further commenting on this and plan Tomm. The lovely job they have is lovely and no freeman wants to do it, unless a large wage is paid which hurts Lefkandi. Or you, if you feel charitable? How much is a huge wage? I'm sure it wouldn't outstripe our pay?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:06
|
|
|
Tomn posted:5. B. Same deal. It's fair, it works, and it's more than he expects. This.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:06
|
|
Tomn posted:After all, nobody in Ur thinks freeing slaves is ethically or morally wrong, do they? Since they do not, the only question is this: Would you rather free slaves on an economically sustainable basis, or would you rather keep them? Lefkandi is already breaking with tradition which upsets other potters in a highly conservative society which is adverse to change. Using Lefkandi's business to pump out free men every few years is probably going to put more pressure on him. (*)Some minor exceptions, previously posted and not something to worry of now.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:06
|
|
|
Now in favor of plan Tomn.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:11
|
|
|
Diogines posted:Further commenting on this and plan Tomm. The lovely job they have is lovely and no freeman wants to do it, unless a large wage is paid which hurts Lefkandi. Or you, if you feel charitable? So how about inflation?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:12
|
|
Pladdicus posted:How much is a huge wage? I'm sure it wouldn't outstripe our pay? 3 pounds of silver each, spread over however many years you wish. Your income consists of: A. Small profits from your small herd B. A share of the fletchers average business C. A share of Lefkandi's business, which is wildly exceeding any expectations D. What time you spend monster hunting. E. Money from one off events In two years you are going to Baitel(probably) which is six months there, six months back. That means a year of no income? Naomi needs a years savings on hand and you need some silver for the trip, Tudiya will probably give you some for the trip, but not for your household.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 02:12 |
|
Lanky Coconut Tree posted:So how about inflation? I cordially invite you to perish in an industrial accident.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 18:15
|
|