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Big Beef City posted:Gorgeous shot of that, looks amazing. holttho posted:This is pretty gorgeous. Those little caps of fat are to die for. That's what I look for when I make this sort of thing. Makes me think I should do a lonzino here fairly soon. Thanks guys, like I said it was drier than I wanted but overall I'm pretty happy with it. Filetto is super easy to do but I wish it were fattier or just bigger. I think I'll try spalla soon, with the fattiest shoulder I can find.
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Apr 7, 2014 11:21
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Cimber posted:--belly!-- Looking good. Now that lots of juices have come out, you will probably want to remove as much air from the bag as possible. That will help keep the brine in contact with as much meat as possible. Also, placing a large weight on top of it in the fridge will help give it a more betterer texture when it is done. I usually do a pan with a couple water bottles or soup cans or whatever I got that's heavy. You may have also figured out through the revelation of all the liquids that you don't need to be as thorough with the initial salt rub-down: once the liquids come out, they'll do the hard work for you. You only really need to be ultra-vigilant with your coverage when you are going to hang it up to dry at room temperature. Did you skin it first or are you waiting until after to do so?
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Apr 7, 2014 14:53
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holttho posted:Looking good. Now that lots of juices have come out, you will probably want to remove as much air from the bag as possible. That will help keep the brine in contact with as much meat as possible. Also, placing a large weight on top of it in the fridge will help give it a more betterer texture when it is done. I usually do a pan with a couple water bottles or soup cans or whatever I got that's heavy. it came without skin, i have a fat layer on the top, and the meat on the bottom. Its not terribly thick however, maybe two inches at the thickest part. I am a bit disappointed by that, i thought it would be thicker. Oh well, I'll shop around for better meat the next time, I was just eager to get started.
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Apr 7, 2014 15:53
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Oh, also do you think 3/4th of a teaspoon pink salt is enough, or should i add another teaspoon in just to be safe. I don't want to get sick from this stuff.
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Apr 7, 2014 16:05
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Cimber posted:Oh, also do you think 3/4th of a teaspoon pink salt is enough, or should i add another teaspoon in just to be safe. I don't want to get sick from this stuff. You're gonna cook it, right?
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Apr 7, 2014 16:14
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Quoting from earlier in the threadholttho posted:...having a thinner belly to start with means that you will have more control and knowledge about the salt migration into your meat. Recipes rarely say how thick of a cut to use, but assume for bacon 1.5". If you have a thicker piece, you will not only have to cure it longer, but you will then have to back some of the salt out again, or the outer areas of the belly will be far too salty. Think of the salt as heat entering the meat: the heat moves in at a constant rate determined by the temperature outside. The salt moves in at a constant rate determined by the salinity of the solution outside. If you have a thick cut, by the time inside is up to temp/salt content, the outside is toast/pure salt. Fortunately, unlike cooking, you can get the salt back out. Just soak it in water for an hour or so, then let the belly rest in your fridge for a day. That will help the cut come to equilibrium. As this is your first time with belly, 2" is plenty thick. And from the looks of the photos, it's good and even. I'd say you got a pretty good slab to work with. They occasionally will come with terrible creases you can't smooth out or the one end is 1" thick and the other end is 4" thick. You won't get sick from a little bit more pink salt, that's not where the "danger" lies. If you sprinkled it on your steak by accident, that is Very Bad Thing, but a few extra grams in a bacon cure is perfectly fine. And even then, you would have to add a ton of it to get sick. Pink salt is something like 5% NaNO2, and a LD50 dose is like 7g. So, you would need to eat roughly a quarter of a pound of pink salt in one sitting to be in serious danger. I can't remember offhand, but I want to say that 2tsp is pretty standard for a couple of pounds of belly. So adding a bit more will bring you up to par. However, it is completely optional at this point; and, if you are going to do it, do it quick. The other salt has a head-start on it. Here is a pretty good and short article on nitrite/nitrates. It shows very nicely how ubiquitous these nitrites are: http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/seasoningflavoring/a/nitrates.htm Granted, as with everything, you should take this with a grain of salt (just a little bit of pun intended) and just don't be goony with eating salty, fatty meats for every meal. holttho fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 16:40
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:You're gonna cook it, right? yeah, smoke it until 150-160 internal temp, then cook it like normal bacon.
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Apr 7, 2014 17:02
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Cimber posted:yeah, smoke it until 150-160 internal temp, then cook it like normal bacon. Then don't stress the pink salt. The cooking will kill anything the salt misses.
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Apr 7, 2014 21:53
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Martello posted:Then don't stress the pink salt. The cooking will kill anything the salt misses. Oh, I put another teaspoon in this afternoon. No worries however.
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Apr 7, 2014 23:30
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Martello posted:Then don't stress the pink salt. The cooking will kill anything the salt misses. Technically, the relatively low-temp smoking wouldn't kill the botulism spores that somehow got inside the meat. But realistically there is no danger; you would literally have to inoculate your bacon with botulism to be in danger here. Then the only danger would be if you, for whatever reason, decided to can your bacon afterwards and let it sit for months on the shelf. The only reason I recommend it is because of the color and flavor it imparts. The health reasons are moot. I just made my pancetta yesterday and only had half of the pink salt requested, but I ain't gonna sweat it.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:19
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I have to say, its hard to wait until saturday to throw this thing on the smoker. I want to cook it NOW, not wait!
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Apr 9, 2014 20:05
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 Trying some salmon bacon at work, bet it's gonna be tasty.
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Apr 10, 2014 00:51
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I really, REALLY want a method + review of salmon bacon, because that sounds like some poo poo that I will make ALL the drat time.
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Apr 10, 2014 06:07
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:
HOLD THE gently caress UP And then give me details.
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Apr 10, 2014 15:02
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:HOLD THE gently caress UP Turned out pretty good.  Approached it just like regular bacon. Salt/pink salt/brown sugar/maple syrup. These were just a ton of scrap bellies/tails from cutting portions for a party, so I rubbed them down, and let them cure overnight. Warm-ish smoked them to 110F, and those pieces you see there tasted fantastic. I cut some bias slices and seared them on the flat top, loving salmon bacon. It had this awesome salmon texture, but with the flavor of bacon! Chef De Cuisinart fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Apr 11, 2014 |
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Apr 11, 2014 02:31
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Well, I plan on smoking my bacon tomorrow, so I took it out of the brine solution and tried it off However, I am a little confused if the fat layer on the top is actually just fat, or if its skin too. I'm fairly sure its fat, can anyone confirm?   Lastly, I fried up a small piece to have a taste, and HOLY poo poo IT WAS LIKE EATING A SALT LICK. GAAAAAAAAAHHHH! I have it sitting in a bowl of cold water right now to cut down on the salt content, and in two or three hours I'll take it out. Hopefully that will do it.
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Apr 12, 2014 02:46
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For what its worth I usually cure using just curing/pink salt and no normal salt. It only needs around 10g per 1kg of meat according to the place i buy the salt from although I sometimes use 5-10g on top of that since a couple of times I've had a patch that didn't look cured in the middle
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Apr 12, 2014 08:38
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Cimber posted:-skin and salt- There isn't any skin on it; the skin is immediately obvious. The skin is very smooth and very tough, just like your belly skin. (well, pig skin is much much tougher than yours) Also, even though they clean it fairly well, there will still be a few bristle hairs and there will be teats on it. If you don't see any nipples, there is no skin. And finally, about half of the time, (if you have a full belly) you will get a some or all of the USDA inspectors stamp. Though, don't worry about the stamp, the ink they use is harmless and you can still render fat out of the stamped skin. As for the saltiness, I would be willing to wager that you sliced off a piece that was kinda hanging off the edge? Like it was probably the ugly, irregular little flap off to the side? If so, just know that those little guys are the saltiest piece of the meat. Just think about how much surface area they have compared to their overall volume and surface-to-center distance. That all adds up to very high levels of salt being able to get in to that tiny piece of meat. The water bath will definitely reduce salt levels, but also just letting the meat relax for a day out of the brine (but still in the fridge) will let the salt move about in the meat and come to equilibrium. Even if you don't bother with letting it rest, once you have it all smoked up, only the outer-most inch will be salty. The inner stuff will be just right. And after all of that, if it is still, for some reason, too salty, just use it as a seasoning. It'll still be super good. Jose posted:For what its worth I usually cure using just curing/pink salt and no normal salt. It only needs around 10g per 1kg of meat according to the place i buy the salt from although I sometimes use 5-10g on top of that since a couple of times I've had a patch that didn't look cured in the middle This is fine for bacon as the bacon we are making here is not a preserved product, but do not attempt for dry cure items unless explicitly told to do so. Either that or you or someone coaching you has extensive knowledge of no-salt preserving. Otherwise, best case scenario is you at least will see what's growing on your food. Worst case is that you won't...
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Apr 14, 2014 16:25
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Double post, I know but... As you are soon to get into smoking your meat, a quick word on pellicle. (I'm sure the smoking thread will know even more about this) Once you are ready to smoke your belly, take it out of the fridge and out of any container. Place it on a cooling rack or other such thing that will allow for full airflow to go around and contact the meat. Place a fan on low to blow air on the meat and let it set for at least an hour, (2 would be just fine as well) flipping about every 15-20 minutes. After the time is up, the meat part should have a decidedly tacky exterior and the fat should be dry but still 'greasy'. This is what is key to getting smoke to your food. Pellicle formation is the process in which water soluble proteins move to the surface. When we cure our meat, the salt acts to denature, or unravel the proteins in the meat, essentially freeing them up from their previous engagements. When you place the meat under forced air current, the water from the outside of the meat will evaporate, pulling moisture up from the depths of the meat. As this water migrates out, it takes those unraveled proteins along for the ride. Once they get to the surface, the water continues its journey off in the air where the protein can't follow and they just pile up on the surface. This has a two-fold benefit. First, water acts to repel smoke from meat. Some of that is due in part from water and smoke would rather not interact, and if there is excess water in the meat, the slow evaporation of water in the smoker would cause an outward pressure. Much like steam escaping food during deep-frying and holding oil at bay, steam would escape from the meat and prevent smoke from getting in. Unlike with deep-frying, we do NOT want to prevent intrusion. Secondly, proteins are like velcro for smoke. At this stage, the proteins are unraveled, but they are about to change. As you apply heat to protein, it denatures and unravels, however, if you continue this heat, they will then shrivel and clench up even tighter than before. This is what happens with a steak: cold and raw can be rather chewy, but even a little heat will loosen it up, but keep cooking until well-done and it becomes shoe leather. Once all these little protein strings are hanging out on the surface, smoke comes up and hits them, sticks, and then the heat of the smoker causes them to clench up and lock down the smoke particulate. Once that layer is down, then it's easy. Smoke sticks to smoke more quickly that meat, so it just builds up and we have exactly what we are looking for. This process also helps to form a barrier to prevent further drying out in the smoker as well as stiffening up the surface to make for easier slicing, but those are just gravy.
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Apr 14, 2014 16:59
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Thank you for the words Holttho! Bacon is done, I completed it on saturday. its REALLY good, but still a bit too salty for my taste. I think next time I'll use a bit less kosher salt, and add some maple syrup instead of a dry chipotle rub as the flavoring. The little bit of extra sugar may really make the difference. My buddy really liked it too. I'll post pictures of it when I can later, i've been too drat busy lately however. Thanks all, this is for sure something I will do again!
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Apr 14, 2014 20:33
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If it's still too salty, just blanch it briefly before you cook it however you were planning to cook it. It pulls the salt right out.
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Apr 14, 2014 21:10
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holttho posted:This is fine for bacon as the bacon we are making here is not a preserved product, but do not attempt for dry cure items unless explicitly told to do so. Either that or you or someone coaching you has extensive knowledge of no-salt preserving. Otherwise, best case scenario is you at least will see what's growing on your food. Worst case is that you won't... This was just for bacon but I had assumed it was fine for any other curing since we were using curing salt. Thanks for the warning though I'll follow instructions strictly if it requires hanging for a longer cure
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Apr 14, 2014 22:32
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No, Bad Things would happen if you didn't put regular salt in anything that was going to be dry cured; which is to say 'preserved'. Regular salt and pink salt are not interchangeable and if you are using pink salt, you really strongly should have additional regular salt to back it up. They do different things in a preserved product. Pink salt takes care of botulism and adds a pleasant reddish-pink color and cured flavor. (though, as I've said before, the color is NOT from the dye in the salt. It is a chemical reaction that is essentially causing the hemoglobin to rust) Regular salt takes care of everything else from bacteria to texture. With a dry cure product, I would definitely recommend following a tried-and-true recipe from a respectable author; not some 10th-result-on-google-blog-post because it has one ingredient you like. Ruhlman is a name that has popped up in this thread a lot, and with good reason: he knows what he's doing and teaches it well. Once you have a few successes under your belt, then you can try mucking about in the details. If you don't, you'll have no one to blame but yourself if you skimp on the preserving agents and it spoils. Preservation charcuterie, along with pickling and canning pose much more risk of serious illness if it goes wrong rather than just regular cooking. So you have to pay it the proper respect. Also, take note of who is telling you what is safe and what is not compared to what is at risk. If it is a life-long butcher/charcuterie maker, chances are you can trust him pretty fully. If it is a teenage deadhead at the counter just saying, 'yea, sure, why not, it'll work' you may want remember he doesn't care if you get sick and you should go ask someone else. If it is your loving grandmother who's been doing this since the time with her grandmother, she knows a lot and definitely doesn't want to see you get sick. If it is just some dude on some internet forum: it's a total gamble. 
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Apr 18, 2014 16:09
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Um, so I saw this slicer on Craigslist and couldn't resist buying it... For scale that is sitting in the back of the truck. It is fully functional and even has an automatic mode. $2500 brand new, got it for <10% of that. Can't wait to make my next 50 lb's of bacon.
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Apr 19, 2014 00:51
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dms666 posted:Um, so I saw this slicer on Craigslist and couldn't resist buying it... are you married, and if so, what does she think of that?
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Apr 19, 2014 03:18
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Cimber posted:are you married, and if so, what does she think of that? $200-$250 isn't too bad of a purchase (it's really good deal if you're in the market for it I think?). It's a lot bulkier and potentially cheaper than I've seen people spend on coffee-related food gadgetry. I know I often wish I had one handy basically any time I'm slicing meat for sandwiches.
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Apr 19, 2014 09:46
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I'm in the middle of making the second of three pastramis and I'd kill for one of those.
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Apr 19, 2014 09:50
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A deli slicer at $250 would be an instant buy for me. You can slice so much more than just meat. Buy your cheese in bulk now.
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Apr 19, 2014 12:50
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Apr 19, 2014 19:21
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2nd attempt at pastrami is done! The cure still seems to be missing the dead center of the meat, guess it needed a few more days. That said, way better than the first attempt, and on a scale between 1 and 10 I'd rate it pastrami. Curing:  Rubbed:  Smoked:  Cut (see how the cure just missed the center?):  Sliced:  My first two attempts were on halves of the point, so I've still got the flat left. I'm hoping I've got it dialed in well enough now to do the flat right.
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Apr 20, 2014 09:52
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Question: I made a Coppa to Ruhlman's recipe (just salt and pepper and a month in the chamber). There was a cavity where the bone was removed. Should I be concerned about that being an anaerobic place for botulinum to live?
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Apr 20, 2014 17:17
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Stringent posted:2nd attempt at pastrami is done! When I do corned beef, I use a carving fork to work over the meat with before I put it in the brine. I get no discernible damage to the finished product (in fact, after the brining, I can't even see any holes). Full disclosure, I usually corn chuck roast instead of brisket, if you feel that'd matter.
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Apr 21, 2014 02:53
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Big Beef City posted:When I do corned beef, I use a carving fork to work over the meat with before I put it in the brine. I get no discernible damage to the finished product (in fact, after the brining, I can't even see any holes). Cool I'll give that a go on the next batch.
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Apr 21, 2014 03:46
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Maverix0r posted:Question: I made a Coppa to Ruhlman's recipe (just salt and pepper and a month in the chamber). There was a cavity where the bone was removed. Should I be concerned about that being an anaerobic place for botulinum to live? Real life answer: No. Science answer: Maybe, but not really. The bone cavity is not nearly air tight enough for it to be considered an anaerobic environment. Oxygen can sneak in slowly by slowly and kill off the C.botulinum. C.Botulinum is an obligate anaerobe, which means basically any amount of air will kill it. It has slight tolerance, but that would be in laboratory conditions. Usually the only way you get sick from botulism is from canned foods. Wikipedia posted:Improperly preserved food is the most common cause of food-borne botulism. Fish that has been pickled without the salinity or acidity of brine that contains acetic acid and high sodium levels, as well as smoked fish stored at too high a temperature, presents a risk, as does improperly canned food. Infants under one year should not be fed honey, a natural source of botulinum bacteria, as bacteria in the gut are not sufficiently developed.
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Apr 23, 2014 15:13
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So I acquired some venison and I want to dry cure some of it. I have a backstrap I plan to make into bresaola, and a whole leg that I'm thinking of making into mocetta. I found this blog post that looks fairly promising. I also like Hank's mocetta recipe on Hunter Angler Gardener Cook. Any other thoughts?
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Apr 28, 2014 17:29
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A meat and cheese store in the middle of mennonite country sold me what I think is pure Sodium Nitrate. He said to mix 2 oz of it per gallon of water. Am I going to die?
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Apr 29, 2014 02:16
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I guess I'm not sure why they gave you nitrate and not nitrite. Like I had said earlier, do you trust the guy who gave it to you? Folksy recipes may not be safe. E.G. Moonshine. "sure, you'll be fine!" Anyways, I cannot speak at all about the water dilution, that goes beyond me. But, you can turn it into regular pink salt #2 (Prague powder #2, Insta-cure #2, or Sel Rose) if you want. The recipe is (by weight): 89.25% regular salt 6.75% sodium nitrite 4.0% sodium nitrate Use for long-curing meats. Typical use is roughly 1-2g per 500g. If you don't have the nitrite, I make no guarantees. Nitrate turns into nitrite over time, so if you don't have the nitrite, you may not be protecting yourself in the timezone that it guards at.
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Apr 29, 2014 15:08
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holttho posted:
Thanks, I'll call them up and ask them for more info. Truth be told, my friend picked it up from them and didn't ask exactly what it is. Edit: called them up and it's 6% sodium nitrate, the rest is just regular salt. EngineerJoe fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 17:53
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That's much more reasonable. I was also thinking it strange you could easily get your hands on such an amount of the pure stuff. Many people have commented in here on what a powerful oxidizer it is. It's barely a step away from being rocket fuel. Or worse. With that new info, then 2oz in a gallon will just net you a fairly mild brine.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:50
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This thread has inspired me to make my own bacon, so here are some pictures of my first attempt! I went to the local farmer's market and bought 4 pounds of pork belly. At $3.49 per pound, it's not amazingly cheap, but okay. Apparently it's locally raised Berkshire hogs, so I guess that's something. I mixed up the spices as directed in the OP:  Later I added honey to the mix, instead of brown sugar. Unfortunately, at this point I got so involved in preparing the bacon that I don't have pictures. Applied the cure liberally, bagged it up (gallon bags are almost too small) and left it in my fridge for a week. I would occasionally come by and flip the bacon, to make sure the cure was well distributed. Finally, it's been a week, and I regain my ability to take photograpghs. My bacon comes out of the cure looking glorious.  I place the bacon in a 200 degree oven for 90 minutes, and it comes out looking great, and smelling even better. The entire house is filled with the smell of bacon. I slice off a piece to cook and taste, and (stupidly) decide that this is a good time to slice the whole slab: when it's hot out of the oven. It goes about as well as you might expect:  It's cut unevenly and often into tiny pieces.. Still, tastes good. The wife and I eat on this first slab for around a week. When the time comes to slice the second slab, it's cold and considerably easier to slice. Of course it helps that in the meantime I bought one of these:  Things go much better this time:  Still not perfect. While all of the full slices are nearly perfect, as I got down to the end of the slab it became hard to control and wouldn't cut evenly - lots of small uneven scraps. Next time I will freeze the slab for an hour before slicing - I hear that's supposed to make it easier. All in all, my first bacon was a moderate success. For my next project:  Maple and brown sugar bacon! Should be ready to come out of the cure tonight.
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May 22, 2014 19:16
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