|
Nihilarian posted:Maybe you should see if they'd be OK with a different system? Especially 3.5 derived systems like Legend or 13th Age? Most of the people I know, I can get into a 4e game if it's on offer. But generally they prefer Pathfinder, and I have a couple who just won't come off 3.5 (although the DM of the two is doing a stellar job of making everyone hate it with his Living Greyhawk campaign). I've pumped up 13th Age the best I can, but nobody has expressed even the slightest bit of interest. Yawgmoth posted:I just mentioned the feat because it seemed relevant, you could easily just make it a houserule too if you want. I don't know if it actually helps any of the classes what need it, though. I would also seriously consider boosting any class with 2 skill points/level that isn't int-based up to 4/level. Yeah I'm looking at adding it as a house rule in addition to "use the higher of your INT or WIS mod for generating skill points." So that should take care of that, for the classes I'm planning to allow (rogue, ranger, barbarian, paladin, bard, maybe a heavily house-ruled monk.)
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2014 06:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 00:33 |
|
|
The Legend rpg system is alright. I was doing a F&F on it, but had to stop because of school obligations and laziness. It's nostalgic to me; my friend was beta testing the game and asked me to join in because he wanted a player who never played tabletop before. So, it was my first rpg and my first campaign. I'll give you some advice on running the system, but note that I haven't played since pre-release so my knowledge is probably outdated. That said, I would tell you to be careful during character generation as there are a few pitfalls players can fall into. Also, stick to the races and classes in the book as the ones on the site tend to be horribly unbalanced (like the lurking terror). Battles tend to be on the long side so be prepared (it's worth noting I usually play story/lite games so maybe I'm not the best judge of this). Like any games with movement measured in actual units, I'd suggest using a battle map as battle placement can get hazy otherwise. Also, remember that everything recharges "per scene" (per battle/per encounter) so players will rarely be low on resources other than HP. I'd say that I think 13th Age does what Legend was trying to do (simpler D&D with elements of 3.5 and 4e) better, but that's just my opinion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2014 06:28
|
|
|
So, what's the general feel on Iron Heroes? I got it recently because of the promise of D&D Without Wizards making GBS threads On Everything and while it looks solid on an initial readthrough, I've learned not to trust those for detecting balance issues, etc. Has anyone had any experience with it, seen anything I'm going to need to be careful of when running it, etc?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
Iron Heroes looks interesting, but I have not had a chance to play it so I can't say how good it is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2014 22:46
|
|
|
I played a somewhat short-lived campaign of Iron Heroes and was pleasantly surprised. It's still got a lot of the pitfalls of d20, particularly when it comes to the "everything but combat" part of the game, which is still mostly the same binary pass/fail d20+skill points+ability scores mess from d20 (though challenges do add a bit more choice). Also Use Rope is still a skill, so... On the other hand, the combat stuff is much improved. Earning tokens and then spending them to do stuff adds a nice layer of interest to d20's "roll attack, now roll damage, now you're done!" style of play. The Mastery system makes feats better, in that they scale now, and many give you alternate uses for tokens, so sometimes you actually get new abilities instead of +1 to sword or whatever. They generally do more that 3.x feats too, so getting bonus feats from your class actually feels like something worthwhile instead of a consolation prize. Don't get me wrong: if you're coming from a game where you're used to characters getting cool abilities instead of +1 to sword every other level, it will still feel a little anemic, but if you're coming from D&D 3.x where +1 to sword is the norm (unless you're playing a caster, in which case it's +1 to being a god) you'll enjoy it. Also any game that removes d20's caster bullshit automatically wins points on that basis alone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2014 23:12
|
|
|
We just got our party Bard and Fighter murdered, so I am thinking of making either a Paladin or Barbarian. The campaign is (basically) Living Greyhawk, so it's pretty much PHB only. Any suggestions about how best to build one or both of those? We're also stuck at level 2 with incredibly lovely gear.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 01:24
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:We just got our party Bard and Fighter murdered, so I am thinking of making either a Paladin or Barbarian. The campaign is (basically) Living Greyhawk, so it's pretty much PHB only. If you're stuck with nothing but the PHB and you're in a campaign that warrants optimization, play a druid. We can turn you into a mounted charger paladin but you'll be a one trick pony, and PHB-only barbarian just isn't worth it. Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Mar 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 02:10
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:We just got our party Bard and Fighter murdered, so I am thinking of making either a Paladin or Barbarian. The campaign is (basically) Living Greyhawk, so it's pretty much PHB only. Instead of those things, why not play a character that can actually contribute, one that actually matters in the game? Because the best advice I can give to a PHB warrior is: "Pick whatever, you'll never really count anyway."
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 02:37
|
|
|
Barbarians are better than paladins. Be an orc if you can, dwarf, half-orc, or human otherwise. Power attack is your feat. Your choices after that suck. You can take weapon focus and cleave if you're lame, or go for combat reflexes, weapon proficiency in spiked chain, and improved trip if you think you can get it all set up before the game is over, you get bored, or the DM stats using monsters too big to trip. Your weapon should be two-handed. Reach is better than crit radius is better than damage dice. I don't know why people still play with just the PHB in tyool 2014.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 04:19
|
|
|
Eikre posted:
Our DM is basically a lazy tool who hates fun. Nihilarian posted:"Pretty much PHB only" or "literally PHB only"? There is a huge difference. Do you have access to SRD material? Any other sources? Since you asked.. Classes: we can use any from the PHB, plus Favored Soul, Healer, Knight, Marshal, Samurai (CW), Scout, Warmage, Warlock Races: any PHB race, plus gray elf, wood elf, mountain dwarf, tallfellow or deep halflings (all from MM1) There's also homebrewed "gutter elves," (i.e. Not-Drow) which iirc are elves but with an additional +2 to WIS or CHA and -2 INT. Feats: quote "You may choose any feat listed in the PHB, with the possibility of feats in the 'Complete' series of books. If the feat is outside the PHB, please consult the DM to see if it is available." Spells are PHB-only, unless we find others in spellbooks/scrolls "while adventuring"  We can "purchase any item from the PHB at cost", but "magic items are limited to a maximum value of 750gp, with the exception of +1 armor." Obviously, this is in addition to stuff we "unlock access to" throughout the campaign.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 05:47
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:Our DM is basically a lazy tool who hates fun.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 06:24
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:Our DM is basically a lazy tool who hates fun. Yawgmoth posted:Bad gaming is worse than no gaming at all. Stay home and read a good book instead. You'll have more fun, and do better by your brainwaves too. Also every time you agree to play with a lazy rear end in a top hat (like the kind who play 3.x core), you are basically telling them that it's okay to be an rear end in a top hat, because they'll still get people to play. Don't encourage lazy assholes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 07:58
|
|
|
Or if you do at least try to gather some good material for the Cat Piss thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 08:13
|
|
|
So what are the correct ways to use 3.5, where it's actually fun?
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 09:41
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:So what are the correct ways to use 3.5, where it's actually fun? Book of Nine Swords, son. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 09:51
|
|
|
Classtoise posted:So long story short: Is there any way to tactfully be completely mentally traumatized from a horrible experience without crapping on ACTUAL victims of ACTUAL tragedies? At random times, give a thousand yard stare and speak in monotone when it wouldn't apply. Apologize and say you were just thinking of something... Gain a weird obsession with phylacteries. Just grab an old Ravenloft or CotC chart and roll for it. Powers check. Horror check. Insanity check. See what you get.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 11:29
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:Our DM is basically a lazy tool who hates fun.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 14:04
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:What about Prestige Classes and Alternate Class Features? There's nothing in the campaign doc saying or suggesting they're allowed, but I can double check with the DM. As one of our players points out, it's Living Greyhawk so it's supposed to be "challenging"; I guess we're just idiots for not having a wizard or druid in the party  It's sort of annoying because social and knowledge skills consistently come up, but then a dude makes a bard to take care of that stuff and subsequently dies from the infamous claw/claw/bite(/rend) attack from a troll.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 19:13
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:So what are the correct ways to use 3.5, where it's actually fun?
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 21:31
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:So what are the correct ways to use 3.5, where it's actually fun? I don't know if this is fun, but there has been a tier system for classes for a while now that some say helps maintain a semblance of balance.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 22:21
|
|
|
My solution to making 3.5 fun was to give all non-caster classes, slow spell progression classes and the bard (with a slower progression) martial powers out of the BO9S, I think it's worked out pretty well. I plan on adapting some 4e abilities to give them a wider selection of abilities as well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 22:28
|
|
|
I think the big problem is that our DM is using Living Greyhawk modules for EVERYTHING; they're clearly balanced around having at least a couple tier 1 classes in the party. So because he is lazy, he lets the chips fall, rather than building around or adjusting for our tier 4.5ish party Basically half the people in the game (including the DM) are here for the 3.5 aspect; Living Greyhawk is killing any player enthusiasm for it, though. The DM basically laughed off playing a game that added 4e-style changes to address M.A.D. and using ~tier 4 classes only. P.d0t fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Mar 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2014 22:34
|
|
|
Apologies for the double-post, but holy poo poo. It turns out our DM has never heard of the tier system for 3.5 classes. I discovered this after I told our group "friends don't let friends play Fighters." The DM's response was that I am a "poor mislead fool" and that "technically the cleric is the one that gets the biggest shaft" in terms of class features.    
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2014 15:54
|
|
|
A lot of lovely DMs have never seen or heard of CoDzilla, or just flat out don't understand it. Which is pretty embarrassing because it's literally just "take the good spells, beat every encounter on your first turn".
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2014 16:14
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:Apologies for the double-post, but holy poo poo. He is still wrong, though. Spells should be considered class features, and they're better than anything a martial can bring to the table.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
The other problem with fighters (and many of the other martial classes) is that in a very rules/option-heavy game, nearly all of their abilities are just bonuses to one thing or another. The effect is that they have very few interesting things to do; oftentimes it's just "I attack it again" in a worse parody of MMOs than the 4E detractors could ever claim.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2014 17:27
|
|
|
Yeah that is the big issue. A fighter takes a feat and gets a single effect, which more often than not is "hit more often" or "do more damage", usually with some sort of rider that limits it to a specific situation or setup. A caster, even if spontaneous, gets several new spells every level which run the gamut of buffs, damage, conditions, ability damage/drain, landscape alteration, pretty much everything and anything you could conceive of. I just can't wrap my head around people who think casters are underpowered and/or that noncasters in 3.5 are "fine".
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
But guys a fighter with a large spiked chain and combat reflexes and improved trip and whirlwind My DM literally held this up as evidence, which is doubly hilarious because we're gonna be level 2.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
Well you can always show them what Caster Supremacy means first hand by rolling a straight players handbook Cleric and making GBS threads all over everything Or y'know you can not play with people who can't acknowledge the massive flaws of a system that's been pored over for almost a decade and a half now. Up to you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2014 19:20
|
|
|
I wrote my group an email with a link explaining the tiers, followed up by my preference for a campaign that operates on about a tier 4 level. Magic users aren't my preferred archetype and gently caress vancian magic even moreso.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2014 19:51
|
|
|
So, I'm looking at Tower Shields on https://www.d20srd.org It says the Max DEX bonus to AC on them is 2, but in the armor section it also says "Shields do not affect a character’s maximum Dexterity bonus." If you're using a tower shield, do you basically just use the lower of the Max DEX bonus from the shield or your armor, or... how does it work?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 06:56
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:Apologies for the double-post, but holy poo poo. P.d0t posted:I wrote my group an email with a link explaining the tiers, followed up by my preference for a campaign that operates on about a tier 4 level. Magic users aren't my preferred archetype and gently caress vancian magic even moreso. Why are you even still playing this game? (This is not a rhetorical question.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 08:56
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:So, I'm looking at Tower Shields on https://www.d20srd.org Tower shields are an exception to the regular shield rules, and you use whichever max dex is the lower one between your shield or armor, so If your using halfplate its +0 but in chainmail it uses the +2 from the shield.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 03:03
|
|
|
J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Why are you even still playing this game? (This is not a rhetorical question.) Nostalgia, I guess. The dude who is running it was my first real DM that got me into D&D. I ran a 4e campaign last year that he played in for about half of the runtime; basically he's a devout 3.5ist, he hasn't even moved on to Pathfinder.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 03:37
|
|
|
I mean, its not like pathfinder is better or anything, but if you're going to stick to a single book for player gen instead of taking the entire corpus I don't know why he would care. lol @ "poor misguided fool," how many fedoras does he own? Eikre fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:25
|
|
|
Eikre posted:lol @ "poor misguided fool," how many fedoras does he own?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:47
|
|
|
Yawgmoth posted:Cold Steel greatswords He plays 3.5, not that anime 4e garbage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 06:36
|
|
|
I need a little help with my character. I'd never played D&D before this game. We're running 3.5, and I'm a dwarf cleric of Moradin, LG. I... hosed up character creation pretty hard, because the guy who was helping me kept forgetting I was a cleric, not a rogue, and I didn't notice. It's too late in the game to reroll without getting killed, plus my DM won't let me unless I die, and my group keeps managing to keep me alive. Currently my stats after racial modifiers are as follows, and I have no magic gear: 12 Str 17 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 15 Wis 10 Cha My first feat was Alertness. I'm 3rd level about to be 4th, so I know my attribute is going into Wis, and my second feat was Brew Potion because we were getting our asses kicked constantly. We're running the Savage Tides story, which starts in Dungeon #139 I believe, so stuff has DR 5 and explodes acid and infects and everything is horrible. What can I do to salvage this character? I basically need to be support at this point because we need it. I'm leaning towards Church Inquisitor as my Prestige class, and have taken the pre-reqs that will allow me to start leveling into it at level 5, because I didn't know about Radiant Servent of Pelor when I made my character. Our group is a ranged based thief, a melee ranger, and a wizard (I think) who is the only competent player in the group. Our emergency tank is an earth elemental I can summon once per day, but currently have no way of healing outside of house ruled fire magic I can't cast. I should mention outside of that earth elemental, I'm the most effective tank we have due to my high AC. This does not go well with trying to support the rest of the group. My chosen domains are Earth/Good. I can't think of anything else you guys need to know to help me unfuck this guy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 07:02
|
|
|
Bludgeon your DM with the Player's Handbook until he lets you respec or he dies, whichever happens first. Making someone play a character they don't like is total horseshit, especially if someone else built that character, and double especially if a bunch of communication errors were involved. In the meantime- You're not quite up a creek like you think you are. Your stats are better than you might think, for one: at low level you don't need gobs of wisdom if you're going to be slinging buffs and summons first and foremost (since the only direct effect your wisdom has on your spells is how hard it is for an enemy to resist, and your allies will generally not be resisting your buff spells), and a healthy initiative check will ensure your spells get where they're going in time to prevent headaches. That said, you still want your Wis as high as it can go for bonus spells. For two, Cleric has a reputation for being fool-proof; once you make it to 5th, you start to get enough options in your spell list that with intelligent selection and usage of your spells you could basically play without feats or good stats and still contribute quite a bit. That's not to say that you can't play it poorly, but you have to actively be trying to sink yourself to render your character sheet unsalvageable. I'm inclined to suggest you should be looking to specialize in summoning, to take the heat off your squishy party and put it on foot soldiers that are 100% disposable. Since Clerics can prep any Cleric spell in existence just by asking their patron politely, all you really have to worry about are what feats you pick up. The feats you've already got are kinda dead air (+2 to (a skill) feats are almost all a waste of time, except maaaaayyyyybe Skill Focus (Concentration), and potions are clunky to use, cumbersome and expensive to brew, carry spells poorly, and are generally just kinda Bad Scrolls), which is one of the reasons why you should be respeccing. When you're bludgeoning your DM, really put your whole body into it. While he ruminates on his poor life choices, here's the quick and dirty Summoner Shopping List. Extend Spell- Double the duration of any spell as long as you're willing to allocate it to a spell slot one level higher. That's a worthwhile trade, especially since you can load it onto your buff spells as well. Spell Focus (Conjuration)- It's a prereq. Augment Summoning- Anything you summon gets More Better. Pretty straightforward. Rapid Spell- For the same price as Extend, you can cut the casting time on Summon spells, and any other 1 round spells, down to a single lousy standard action, which also means your summon shows up the turn you call for it, rather than the turn after. Also a worthwhile trade. Remember that a spell can host multiple pieces of metamagic! This feat's hiding out in Complete Divine, not the PHB. There's all sorts of stuff you can throw on top of that, but these four are the basic 'be good at summoning' package. If you talk your DM into allowing you to respec, start with Spell Focus and Augment, since you don't have the spell levels to use metamagic meaningfully yet. If you end up riding this character sheet out, I'd take Extend Spell next since you'll have enough spell levels and slots to work with that the versatility gives you some immediate tools. Remember that Cleric is hard to do long-term damage to, though; if you feel in your heart of hearts that your character absolutely needs to take Run and five instances of Toughness, or whatever other flavor feats you might have your eye on, you can do so safe in the knowledge that just being a Cleric can keep you afloat. Also remember that when casting Summon Monster, you can summon multiple creatures off the previous level's Summon list instead of a single one of your current level. It's really useful to be able to clog the field up with guys at a moment's notice, and the combined worth of several small guys tends to add up to more than one big guy. ALSO remember that as a caster who works off spell slots, you can change your loadout to match the challenges you expect to face, even if those take you out of your comfort zone. With regards to prestige classes: Inquisitor doesn't damage your spell progression, so there's nothing abhorrent about it, but for a first timer playing a Cleric? Frankly, I'd consider staying vanilla. You have enough moving parts as it is. If you wanna dive into all the bells and whistles face-first, though, far be it from me to stop you; just stay far away from anything that doesn't level up your spellcasting like Inquisitor does. Missing caster levels hurt really bad. As a new Cleric, I also feel obligated to give you the traditional wisdom. Do not prepare heal spells; you can pluck those out of thin air, and even if you really expect to use one, there's no reason not to fill a spell slot with something you might need in a pinch and just convert it on demand later. Do not use your turns in combat to heal unless it is actually life or death; the faster you finish your opponents, the sooner they stop dealing damage, and the less resources you have to expend patching up. Your team will fight just as hard at 1 hp as they will at 40, and you'll have all the time in the world to lick your wounds once combat's over. While I've got your attention, have you checked the Monster Manual entry for that earth elemental you summon? He can noclip straight through dirt or stone, so if he's survived combat and has time left (Extend Spell!), or you have more summon spells than you suspect you'll really use, he can do some serious scouting for you. He does not, however, speak English, so you'll have to invest in either some form of telepathy or blow some spare skill points to learn the Terran language to figure out what he actually saw. You can also have him dive underground and then resurface shortly afterwards in ambush for an unsuspecting enemy. These aren't at all vital, but I live for fun cutesy tricks. Don't fret too much about taking a beating early on; at low levels, that's just kinda how it goes. In time, you'll build up resources and be able to stretch yourself across an entire day's worth of activity more easily. It's been a while since I've played 3.5 (and it's 3 AM), so I'm out of practice and skimming internet posts to recall most of this information, and I'm sure there's tidbits I could be telling you but have forgotten, but that's what I've got. e: In the event that you do respec, I'd reallocate your raw rolls like this- 15 Str 14 Dex 12 Con 11 Int 17 Wis 12 Cha Which would, after dwarf mods, end up like this- 15 Str 14 Dex 14 Con 11 Int 17 Wis 10 Cha Aside from the obvious benefits putting your big number in your casting stat brings, grooming your physical stats to be more strength-oriented will let you mix it up on the front line more effectively. Your god gave you armor for a reason! Spells like Divine Power will let you do a nasty Bruce Banner impression and SMASH. If you'd rather stay 100% caster and let your minions do all the actual dirty work, then your stats would be better served like so- 11 Str 15 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 17 Wis 12 Cha Investing in your charisma, and therefore extra uses of Turn Undead, is pretty useful for a Cleric not because Turn Undead is good (it's alright, I guess), but because there's a ton of high quality feats that let you burn Turn uses as fuel for some really nice effects. While I'm a fan of many of the (domain) Devotion feats, the clear standout down this avenue is Divine Metamagic, which lets you lower the adjustment of metamagic at the cost of one level per one turn attempt. This makes a lot of 'incredible effect but unreasonable cost' metamagic suddenly become very relevant to you, chief among them Persistent Spell out in Complete...Mage? That or Complete Arcane. One of 'em. Anyway, Persist makes one spell have a duration of twenty four fuckin hours but applies a disgusting +6 to its effective level. If you can buy those off with Turn attempts, though, you can start your day by suiting up your friendly neighborhood Fighter with his balanced buff breakfast, and then you never have to think about it again. That's a pretty far off long-term goal, though. Heatwizard fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 10:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 00:33 |
|
|
I agree with Heatwizard, summoning is the way to go. Disposable tanks is a great way to soak up the damage from squishy party members. For feats, consider Cloudy Conjuration (Complete Mage p. 40) and Summon Elemental (Complete Mage p. 47). Also, if your DM won't let you fix your character after someone else messed it up, he's a tool.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 14:59
|
|