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Incidentally I wound up watching condits ufc fights today. I started off wanting to check out Ellenbergers fights because in my mind he's got the same check boxes as Hendricks, great wrestler with a great chin who goes all out and frequently puts guys out in the first round but has had cardio issues, and I wanted to see what differences I could find between them. But I started with Ellenberger v Condit and got sidetracked watching Condit's fights instead because I love Stephan Bonnar in all his forms. I don't know what planet condit won the ellenberger fight on, but its the one we live on I guess. If theres ever been a 10-8 round, it was the first against Ellenberger, who rattled Condit with a punch early and could take him down without much trouble, which is a common occurrence for Condit. And then he won the second round, too I thought. Either way it was a draw at best for Condit. Ellenberger, like everyone else, could barely do poo poo once he got condit on the ground though, except for after he was practically KO'd. The next fight was the Rory MacDonald fight, which didn't go down anything like its reputation. I haven't seen it since it happened, but even I remembered it as Rory taking Condit down repeatedly and GnPing him until Condits incredible comeback, but thats not the case whatsoever. Rorys only takedowns came in the first round, and like everyone besides GSP he was totally unable to do anything to Condit. Condit got up rather easily. In the second round, Rory ended up on top once because condit slipped, and once by a tricky reversal after Condit actually had taken him down. The surprising thing was Rory was actually holding his own standing. Condit gets punched hard in the face by almost everyone. Anyway, the point is this fight is totally misrepresented almost every time it comes up. Rory doesnt dominate Condit on the ground at all. Condit gets him down and GnP's him in more than just the last round. Overall, I think Condit has one of the best top games with some of the best gnp in the division, if not the best. Knowing what we know now and reviewing this fight, I think Rory probably is on the lower end of the great wrestlers at WW. He's the only one who couldn't get Condit down easily, got stuck in the guard like almost everyone, and he was actually winning a lot of the stand up exchanges so its not like he was desperate and going for bad takedowns. Thinking about his fights with Ellenberger, LAwler, and this one paint a pretty clear picture at least of where Rory is presently at. His stand up is pretty sophisticated and he understands distance and stuff pretty well, but he doesn't have the straight up dominant wrestling of Ellenberger, Pierce, Hendricks, Koscheck, etc. He used his cardio and stand up to keep Ellenberger away, and when he got into trouble standing with lawler he couldn't really get it down. That's my impression anyway. The Nick Diaz fight also has weird mythology around it to some people about how Nick won or something, and he actually did keep the first couple rounds fairly close, but he never really rattled Condit, and even when he got his back it didn't last for long. I think everythings been said about this fight already. It was a good one. Weirdly, Condit seemingly expends a lot more energy, but Nick is kind of sluggish at the end and Condit pulled away further and further after the second round. The GSP fight gets characterized in a total bullshit way frequently, too, like the only thing Condit did was land one kick. But he actually gets on top of GSP for a full minute and does great GnP. And of course he lands a lot of good strikes in every round, because he and GSP are well-matched standing. GSP's the only guy whose ever managed to do anything worthwhile in Condit's guard. he actually gets to half guard and lands some blows. Condit landed some good elbows off his back, managed to get up, did a decent triangle attempt, and towards the very end swept GSP beautifully but it didn't last long. I think, more than the takedowns, what led to GSP doing so well against Condit was his jiu jitsu. Every other guy in the division would have done jack poo poo in his guard and had to stand up and fight him without having done anything worth doing on the ground. I already said about the hendricks fight the other day, and who cares about kampmann, but I did inform my opinion about Woodley a little bit. At the time I saw it, I thought he basically only trained to throw a counter right and shooting when Condit moved forward, and thats actually a great gameplan against Condit, since half the guys he fights rattle him with a big punch early, and can take him down. So basically I think Woodley did perform like the upper echelon of WWs, but its hard to say more than that, because he's far from the first guy to do that against Condit, and being able to do that isn't the same as being able to beat Condit, at all Cool I just procrastinated a long time
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Apr 15, 2014 22:10
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Condit has the best guard in mma
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Apr 15, 2014 22:16
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Bundt Cake posted:Condit has the best guard in mma now that GSP has retired that might be true
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Apr 15, 2014 22:21
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Panama Red posted:I also really like guys who seem to have high fighting IQs and that's where the Maia love came from. (Of course I could be wrong about that and he could be a 'dumb' fighter, but it sounds like his underperformance is mostly due to lack of striking ability…?) I saw my fair share of PRIDE back in the day and was a huge Sakuraba fan precisely because he was the "IQ Wrestler" using smarts over brawn but nevertheless came to the ring dressed as luchadors and Super Mario. I'm less enamored with meatheads who come in and GnP or whatever and win through brute force alone. I'm much more likely to cheer for the guy who uses skill and smarts over just being bigger and stronger than the other guy. You'd probably like Machida because he has one of the "smartest" fighting styles you can find, because his timing and control of range usually allow him to avoid taking any real damage on the way to landing devastating counters. He also spent most of his career fighting at light heavyweight where almost everybody was bigger than him, often by a significant margin. On the other hand his low-risk style makes some of his fights boring and frustrating to watch. Go ahead and skip the bouts with Rampage, Dan Henderson, and Phil Davis, but all the rest are pretty good. As a bonus for a fan of BJ Penn, you could try to find a video of Penn/Machida, which was an openweight bout where Machida weighed in sorta chubby at 225 lbs, BJ was blatantly obese at 191 lbs (!), and Machida still almost lost. He probably only picked up the split decision because 2 of the judges liked his visually impressive but tactically non-productive karate foot-sweep takedowns. I would also recommend checking out Demetrious "Mighty Mouse" Johnson, the 125 lb. champ. Before that division was created in the UFC he fought as a notably undersized bantamweight with a lot of success. It's kind of a running joke how much Joe Rogan gushes over his technique, but he really is very very good, he fights smart, and it's a waste of time trying to describe how fast he is--you just have to watch him fight. Finally, not in the UFC, but if you like grappling look up Shinya Aoki.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:25
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Bundt Cake posted:
I don't think anyone here really thinks Rory is all that good, but it amazes me that he is treated like the heir to GSP's throne by the MMA media when he does an awkward autism Ali shuffle or he can't deal with Lawler's footwork and aggression.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:32
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Panama Red posted:Funny that should be brought up because I was just thinking about Big Nog being another favorite of mine and also a Brazilian and it stemming from him being such a soft-spoken and seemingly nice guy (I may be making this up but I remember something awhile back about Big Nog loving hugs? Maybe have been on TUF?). I definitely like guys who seem to genuinely enjoy themselves and don't feel the need to do a lot of macho chest-pounding and mean-mugging. There was a guy whose name escapes me who was very flamboyant and I think came to a weigh-in dressed as Hulk Hogan or something but then ended up losing at the PPV he was set to appear on… I liked him but he may have been cut after that.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:35
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I hope that when Condit gets back, assuming Woodley isn't the champ and has lost to either Rory or Hendricks by then, they give him a rematch headlining a FS1 card.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:39
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-Atom- posted:There's nothing unreasonable about any of this. Shut up
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Apr 15, 2014 22:41
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1st AD posted:I don't think anyone here really thinks Rory is all that good, but it amazes me that he is treated like the heir to GSP's throne by the MMA media when he does an awkward autism Ali shuffle or he can't deal with Lawler's footwork and aggression. As one of his only fans in PSP, I do think Rory is really good or maybe he's just pretty good and will be really good in a couple of years. He's still very young and has outstruck everyone he's fought except Lawler. His wrestling is overrated and borderline weak at times but his GNP is brutal and I seriously enjoy his striking as much as most of you seem to hate it. great post by bundt, completely agree about condit being hittable as hell but his chin and guard are both some of the best in the sport.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:41
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Panama Red posted:I will definitely check these guys out and will look into the UFC Fight Pass trial as well. Thanks! You should also check out Invicta, an organisation featuring only female fighters. All their events are free on Youtube and they are so good that the UFC pretty much just bought their entire strawweight division and will introduce it as their second female division later this year.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:47
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EvanSchenck posted:Finally, not in the UFC, but if you like grappling look up Shinya Aoki. Don't forget his insane best friend*, noted hater of knee joints and ligaments Mazakazu Imanari. *I don't know if they're actually besties, but they do train together.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:48
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MacDeuce posted:has outstruck everyone he's fought except Lawler. The notable strikers that Rory has outstruck include:
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Apr 15, 2014 22:59
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BJ Penn
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Apr 15, 2014 23:03
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Dammit Maia, you were so close to beating Rory. We wouldn't have to hear about that rear end in a top hat as a title contender anymore for at least a year or so if Maia had been able to keep him grounded off his takedown in the 3rd.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:04
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Not relevant to autistic fascists but I love this post-fight most. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un0HGw27c_A
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Apr 15, 2014 23:06
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Maia is a 6th degree black belt in disappointment. The important thing to notice in his disappointment game is that it's not all about the flashy Marquardt KO's or the heartbreak of getting beat at his own art by Jake Shields, he's also a master at drawing you back in, finding equally uplifting moments like changing weight classes, Fitching Fitch, or wobbling Munoz on the feet to convince you to believe again and then BAM! He's got you. He's totally about to knock two people out after grappling them for a few rounds and then he'll get choked out by Bisping or something, it's like the last avenue he has to completely drain me of my will to live. Edit: Honestly I'm still reeling from Lobster Mobsters Author and Artist joke about Rory. Every time I see anything about autism it pops in my head. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 23:15
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Bundt Cake posted:If theres ever been a 10-8 round, it was the first against Ellenberger, who rattled Condit with a punch early and could take him down without much trouble, which is a common occurrence for Condit. Condit doesn't seem to fear the takedown. A lot of strikers will slow down their output, maintain range, and rely on counters to avoid being taken down. Condit doesn't do this at all, he just stands upright in the pocket and tries to beat the hell out of his opponent, and doesn't worry about getting hit or controlling where the fight goes, just about hurting them more than they hurt him wherever they take him. If they're standing, great, if they're clinching he's got nasty short strikes (particularly his elbows), if they take him down he's relentless off his back. And he makes sure they're always fighting up to meet his tempo all five minutes. The Diaz bros. do something similar but I think Condit is a little better at it, although it is true that his most notable departure from the usual gameplan was when he fought Diaz and won via technical striking, movement, and careful control of distance. keep binge watching, I'm enjoying these posts
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Apr 15, 2014 23:19
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My fight IQ is very low but high enough to know that I enjoy watching two good or two really bad punchmen punch each other's faces and sometimes choke one another and bend limbs in ways they aren't meant to bend
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Apr 15, 2014 23:19
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Bundt Cake posted:Incidentally I wound up watching condits ufc fights today. I started off wanting to check out Ellenbergers fights because in my mind he's got the same check boxes as Hendricks, great wrestler with a great chin who goes all out and frequently puts guys out in the first round but has had cardio issues, and I wanted to see what differences I could find between them. But I started with Ellenberger v Condit and got sidetracked watching Condit's fights instead because I love Stephan Bonnar in all his forms. Digging these posts. Also I totally agree about the Ellenberger fight and that fight really made me take notice and start liking Ellenberger. Also one of the good things about him is that he is still pretty young and has been very active the past few years. His fight with Lawler is going to be great. Panama Red posted:I will definitely check these guys out and will look into the UFC Fight Pass trial as well. Thanks! I'm not trying to turn this into a "PYF grappling in MMA" but Maia vs Jason MacDonald was the first fight that got some of my friends into grappling because we were all jumping up and down and screaming at the television. UFC 87 was a great card from top to bottom anyway.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:20
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Someone send me a message on fight ICQ
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Apr 15, 2014 23:20
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LobsterMobster posted:I need to track down Ben Saunders vs Brandon Wolff because that was an amazing display for muay thai clinch knee murder. Yep. 
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Apr 15, 2014 23:21
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It'll be a really sad day when Condit's chin finally cracks.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:22
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Lloyd Boner posted:It'll be a really sad day when Condit's chin finally cracks. A likely sadder day is when he comes back from this surgery and has lost a step.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:32
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Lloyd Boner posted:It'll be a really sad day when Condit's chin finally cracks. He's got really good head movement so it'll be a while. Maybe it'll be a sneaky punchman or a returning Nick Diaz(now featuring leg kicks)
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Apr 15, 2014 23:34
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Maia is a 6th degree black belt in disappointment. The important thing to notice in his disappointment game is that it's not all about the flashy Marquardt KO's or the heartbreak of getting beat at his own art by Jake Shields, he's also a master at drawing you back in, finding equally uplifting moments like changing weight classes, Fitching Fitch, or wobbling Munoz on the feet to convince you to believe again and then BAM! He's got you.  We're all Rick Story.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:37
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Bundt Cake posted:The next fight was the Rory MacDonald fight, which didn't go down anything like its reputation. I've been saying this poo poo for a while. Every time Condit is on his back he beats the poo poo out of Rory while Rory looks like he's trying to get his arms unstuck from a giant fingertrap.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:41
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Apr 16, 2014 00:16
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WTF am I looking at?
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Apr 16, 2014 00:22
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Who's calling who gay in what language?
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Apr 16, 2014 00:22
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Uh as far as I can tell Jon Jones is going through the instagram posts of someone who called him out on his Gus talk and sending them messages calling them fags. The part right before that is the persons username or somesuch. What a dick.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:23
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It's real. Definitely coming from Jones' account. Hacked?
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Apr 16, 2014 00:23
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Jon Jones is the absolute worst
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Apr 16, 2014 00:26
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SAVE_US.CHR
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Maybe Jon Jones is on steroids and he has an enlarged heart. Ever think of that ChampagneDanii?
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Apr 16, 2014 00:40
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Strip him of the belt Dana. Do it. Then have a one night tournament to figure out the new holder.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:41
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Uh as far as I can tell Jon Jones is going through the instagram posts of someone who called him out on his Gus talk and sending them messages calling them fags. The part right before that is the persons username or somesuch. FFS
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Apr 16, 2014 00:42
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I'm sorry -atom- but I'm still here for you.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:43
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jon jones is a master strategist. remember him pushing for bigtime sponsors because he's a good man and doesn't drive drunk before immediately trying to joust a telephone pole in a bentley full of strippers? or how he was too terrified to speak on camera in a commercial and then tried to get warner brothers to put him in movies. he is going to sexually assault glover in the cage, these things only greg jackson can teach.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:43
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Someone check to see if he signed a massive contract with McDonald's yesterday and said he'd never offend people based on their sexuality.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:46
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I know Jon Jones is playing an act all the time so we don't know what he's like at home, but him saying "fag poo poo" & "fag boys" to some random guy on instagram feels out of character to me.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:48
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I was hacked and those comments do not represent me or my team, my apologies to Liberace or whoever. Phil 4:13
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Apr 16, 2014 00:48
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