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TheImmigrant posted:Jordan illegally annexed the entire West Bank in 1948. Britain and France illegally colonized the whole shebang before that
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Apr 15, 2014 20:45
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Hip Flask posted:Britain and France illegally colonized the whole shebang before that I don't think that they broke any laws Tim.
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Apr 15, 2014 20:54
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Hogge Wild posted:I don't think that they broke any laws Tim. Me neither. Immoral is not necessarily illegal.
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Apr 15, 2014 20:58
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That is so wrong. The Turks won that poo poo fair and square in a big old bloody war in the 16th century.
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Apr 15, 2014 20:59
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Maybe this clears the situation a bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY
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Apr 15, 2014 21:01
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Tree Goat posted:Like all good cartography questions with political components, the answer is "it depends" I don't know how accurate this is, but this made me laugh a bit: quote:April 13 — The Republic of Venezuela is renamed the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, after the Constitution of Venezuela is put in place
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Apr 15, 2014 21:14
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sbaldrick posted:If you look a bit North of the town you can see the giant compounds on the lake Which lake? Cuz there's a shitton of them.
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Apr 15, 2014 21:16
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:Reunified Germany and China taking back Hong Kong are the most obvious ones that come to mind. Peanut President posted:Don't forget about China taking back Macau.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:21
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Count Roland posted:I was thinking about the situation in Ukraine, and I got to wondering about expanding borders. Russia annexed Crimea as we all know, and either has already or will officially make it part of Russian territory. Turkey in Cyprus in '74 is a pretty analogous case to Russia in Crimea, though northern Cyprus is only Turkish-occupied instead of "officially" part of Turkey.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:51
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ulvir posted:These examples aren't really comparable to what's going on with Ukraine/Crimea these days. The original agreement for Macau and Hong Kong stated that the imperial powers should agree to hand the island states back to China after a certain number of years. Somewhere around 99 years, if memory serves right. With Hong Kong the British did lease part of it for 99 years but there was a part which was essentially given to them for as long as they liked. Neither is really akin to Crimea though.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:53
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ulvir posted:These examples aren't really comparable to what's going on with Ukraine/Crimea these days. The original agreement for Macau and Hong Kong stated that the imperial powers should agree to hand the island states back to China after a certain number of years. Somewhere around 99 years, if memory serves right. For Hong Kong at least, the issue was that the British took it in three separate treaties. A small part of it was ceded to the British in perpetuity, but the majority of the land area was leased to them for 99 years, expiring in 1997. Due to the massive urbanization that happened during the 20th century it would have been extremely impractical to split the city along the lines demarcated in 1898, so the British had little choice but to hand it over, especially after China made it clear that western financial interests would be protected.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:57
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Kowloon and Hong Kong Island were ceded in perpetuity. The New Territories were a lease. Macau was ceded in perpetuity, but the Portuguese tried to give it back after Salazar went down and Mao wouldn't take it because of the ongoing Cultural Revolution. It was then reclassified as a Chinese territory under temporary Portuguese administration until China was ready to take it back in 1999.
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Apr 16, 2014 01:26
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Kurtofan posted:I don't know how accurate this is, but this made me laugh a bit: There was a short-lived coup in 2002. The new government renamed the country, then Chavez renamed it back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt
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Apr 16, 2014 01:35
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esquilax posted:Turkey in Cyprus in '74 is a pretty analogous case to Russia in Crimea, though northern Cyprus is only Turkish-occupied instead of "officially" part of Turkey. I don't want to start up an irredentist slapfight or anything here, but at least in Cyprus, wasn't Turkey a little more justified than Russia since violence against ethnic Turks wasn't imaginary, and the people there really were appealing to Turkey for help?
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Apr 16, 2014 02:29
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VitalSigns posted:I don't want to start up an irredentist slapfight or anything here, but at least in Cyprus, wasn't Turkey a little more justified than Russia since violence against ethnic Turks wasn't imaginary, and the people there really were appealing to Turkey for help? I wouldn't say it was so much "violence against ethnic Turks", more like a violent clash between two belligerent ethnic nationalist groups. Whether their intervention after the '74 coup was justified is debatable, but Turkey founding a de facto state and then performing a campaign of ethnic cleansing of northern Greeks was definitely not. edit: Politically loaded map! 
esquilax fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 02:49
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Hogge Wild posted:Maybe this clears the situation a bit: Clever video. I could identify about half of those different nations. I forgot how many different empires crossed through the Levant thousands of years ago. I clicked around on some of the related videos and stumbled upon a stationary map of Europe showing the nations and borders changing over the course of 6,000+ years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxDyJ_6N-6A I liked how it stopped in 2013, otherwise they'd have to do something about Crimea... or would they?
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Apr 16, 2014 03:21
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It's missing a bunch and has a few duplicates where they aren't necessary so don't feel bad for not getting more.
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Apr 16, 2014 03:23
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If I got it right, it goes, in order of appearance: generic 'early man' Canaanite Egyptian Assyrian Israelite Persian Alexander the Great some other Greeks Ptolemy Seleucid High Priest/Judah Maccabee Romans Byzantines Arabs Crusaders Mamluks Ottomans Arab nationalists Britain Zionists Fatah IDF Hamas Death
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Apr 16, 2014 03:31
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There's a list here and on the vimeo page and whatever.
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Apr 16, 2014 03:35
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Hooray, I was mostly right!
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Apr 16, 2014 03:42
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Have some world war 1 maps. Europe 3 years before the war started, mostly a pretty map.  A bunch of Propaganda maps:           And lastly a plan for Europe from 1915: 
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Apr 16, 2014 10:04
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Italy and Balkans are stealing Austria's boots.
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Apr 16, 2014 11:24
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Hogge Wild posted:Italy and Balkans are stealing Austria's boots. My personal favourite in that map is the Ottoman Empire cutting of its own neck using a sword 'made in Germany'.
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Apr 16, 2014 11:38
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It's also telling that the British Isles is the only one in that map who looks as though he's enjoying himself!
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Apr 16, 2014 11:42
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I love the German propaganda version of the Western Front in this one. "What, Belgium? Who? We definitely didn't cross their borders. Actually never heard of them, is that even a country? Anyhoo, just defending ourselves from the dastardly French attack on Elsaß-Lothringen"
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Apr 16, 2014 11:44
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This one is beautiful. France is only in Basque country, Ireland is a colony of Austria-Hungary, Great Britain is a colony of Germany, Netherlands and Romania are surrounded on all sides and not annexed, Russia is only in Crimea...
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Apr 16, 2014 11:47
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lullelulle posted:And lastly a plan for Europe from 1915: Who was proposing this plan? I like that Iran gets divided up along with the Central Powers because, hey, why not? Who's that yellow, non-Turkish, non-Greek country in southern Turkey supposed to be for? Is it meant to be part of Italy's spoils?! And how come Britain takes Haifa directly when everything around it is neutral?
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Apr 16, 2014 13:34
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Angry Salami posted:Who was proposing this plan? Most likely France, since it's their name in the title.
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Apr 16, 2014 13:41
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Angry Salami posted:Who was proposing this plan? Britain gets half of Iran, Iraq, Cyprus, a good part of the Saudi Arabian coastline AND Egypt, and you wonder about Haifa?
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Apr 16, 2014 13:42
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kapparomeo posted:It's also telling that the British Isles is the only one in that map who looks as though he's enjoying himself! Russia's smiling.
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Apr 16, 2014 13:48
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Angry Salami posted:Who's that yellow, non-Turkish, non-Greek country in southern Turkey supposed to be for? Is it meant to be part of Italy's spoils?! The plans for Turkey there are actually almost exactly what the Allies ended up deciding on in 1920 at the Treaty of Sevres (with the exception of the territory marked out for Russia given to a large Armenian state instead), and which Ottoman Empire accepted. A guy named Mustafa Ataturk took exception to his country being brutally carved up, though, and it turns out that the Turkish people weren't all that fond of their new Italian, Turkish and French overlords either, and that's the reason Turkey is actually a viable nation in the modern era instead of being a tiny rump state confined to a corner of Anatolia. Someone has little Serbia pig as their av on these forums. I think he posts in the Paradox thread. BBJoey fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 15:00
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Was the whole "anthropomorphized country map" thing a big fad in the WWI era? It seems like there's a ton of them out there.
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Apr 16, 2014 15:24
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Angry Salami posted:Who's that yellow, non-Turkish, non-Greek country in southern Turkey supposed to be for? Is it meant to be part of Italy's spoils?! What I find stranger than that is that Bulgaria (who, y'know, fought on the side of the Central Powers) is not only retaining Western Thrace but also being given pretty much all of Eastern Thrace too.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:33
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Basil Hayden posted:What I find stranger than that is that Bulgaria (who, y'know, fought on the side of the Central Powers) is not only retaining Western Thrace but also being given pretty much all of Eastern Thrace too. I'm pretty sure the plan was made before Bulgaria actually joined. They joined in October 1915.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:46
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"No one rightly knows what happened in great hot Africa"
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Apr 16, 2014 18:21
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Today in Excellent Choices in Colour Scales:  E: Sorry, it broke tables. Fixed now.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:52
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Darth Various posted:Today in Excellent Choices in Colour Scales: To be fair all we really need to know is that France thinks it's okay and nobody else does.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:57
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Well that and large swaths of africa and central asia don't seem to have any opinion on it period.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:09
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Frostwerks posted:Well that and large swaths of africa and central asia don't seem to have any opinion on it period. The study only asked like 40 countries.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:14
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Angry Salami posted:I like that Iran gets divided up along with the Central Powers because, hey, why not? Before WW1 Iran was divided up into "zones of influence" for Britain and Russia, with a "neutral zone" in between, so it's not out of nowhere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Russian_Entente#The_Anglo-Russian_Convention_of_1907.5B4.5D
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Apr 16, 2014 21:31
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