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Excelsiortothemax posted:How about Berytos? First time using them and they look to be fun if I can get blood hunts going. Blood 9 is pretty pointless; the most you'll need is Blood 8 for Bind Demon Lord, and you can get that by taking Blood 6 + two boosters. None of Melqart, Shedim or Se'irim scale with level. Incidentally, B7 F1 will get you Soul Contracts. The Blood 9 bless doesn't synergize with giant sacreds at all unless you have a high-hp type with N9 regeneration, which you don't. Pretender design also suffers for duplicating your existing paths. Brides do Fire + Blood fine, all you really need is B4 for blood boosters, but even then you can just empower a Bride to 4 since you have pretty good blood hunting. Good pretenders will access stuff you can't access nationally, but things that still synergize. For example, D3 B4 will get you Vampires and Blood Boosters, which is something you won't be able to get with your national paths but something you WILL have the resources to use given that you'll be blood hunting anyway. Death mages also synergize with blood summons (Darkness) and Air and Earth buffs synergize with vampire swarms. For a pretender, you can kind of fake a SC by taking a Lich Queen or Master Lich with D5 (gives fear) and Dom9 (gives awe). The Titan of War and Wisdom would be my choice for a Domstr9 SC if you wanted non-blood non-death paths, like for example good astral magic or high earth. If you really want your sacreds to be effective the only real routes are E9 clops or N9 dragon, IMO. Examples: D6 B4 Dom9 awake Master Lich, Order 3, Prod 1, Cold 1, Growth 0, Misf 2, Drain 3. Can kind of expansion-SC, is immortal, breaks you into blood boosters and into Death support magic. N9 Dom9 awake green Dragon, same scales. High-power expansion-SC that lets you use your sacreds. S5 E1 Dom7 awake Neteret of Many Names, Order 3, Prod 3, Heat 1, Growth 1, Misf 2, Drain 2. This is a pretender built specifically to rush Flaming Arrows. You struggle along as best you can with your national troops in the meanwhile. S3 D4 N3 B4 dormant Demilich, Order 3, Prod 2, Heat 1, Growth 3, Misf 2, Drain 2. Path coverage pretender, I'm actually not sure if this path selection is ideal but you can teleport, make blood and nature boosters, cast death rituals, and access the right blood summons. I guess if I'm taking an immortal teleporter I might want E2/E3 + A2 for Cloud Trap -> Rain of Stones instead of S3, whatever, you get the idea. Again, relies on lovely troops for expansion. e: Blood magic is a troops+buffs based endgame, revolving around things like Demon Knights + Storm Demons (storm demons are amazing!!!! cannot emphasize enough) and Fog Warriors, Weapons of Sharpness, Darkness, Mass Regen, etc. Berytos however gets Melqarts which can be decent SCs or thugs. Demons themselves are rarely good thugs.
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Apr 15, 2014 07:05
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You're not going to have "vampire swarms" anymore. Not with just a single caster making 3 of them a turn for an obscene amount of slaves.
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Apr 15, 2014 07:40
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For blood hunting what is the minimum pop I should be hunting in?
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Apr 15, 2014 08:38
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Excelsiortothemax posted:For blood hunting what is the minimum pop I should be hunting in? 5000.
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Apr 15, 2014 09:17
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If you focus on vamps you'll have plenty of Vamp Lords, which can make the troop vamps 1/turn. Do that for 3+ turns and you're above the efficiency of the summon spell, and Vamp Lords are ridiculously useful casters anyway, doubly so for Berytos who would love to have Death access in the lategame. e: Above 5k you get no further returns, below 5k returns start to diminish, so ideally you hunt in provs around 5k. That said, I hunt in provs all the way down to 3.5k and all the way up to 7 or 8k.
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Apr 15, 2014 10:03
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So these Story Events sound pretty neat and game changing; is there a list of them anywhere? Or, hell, of all the new events in the latest patch? Story Events are largely nation-specific, right? It seems like it could be a game changer in terms of nation balance in games where they are turned on, particularly if they are affected by the Luck scales (are they?)
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Apr 15, 2014 11:50
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Hinnom blood hunting question: Melquarts have a blood hunting and blood sacrifice bonus, but they cause more unrest than Baals. Who do I spent my capitol slow recruit turns on?
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Apr 15, 2014 14:06
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Eschatos posted:I would recommend an awake SC for Berytos, their sacreds aren't very good and their other troops are garbage until you get flaming arrows. They have cheapo spear chaff, archers and shortsword troops, 20g Lancers, a couple of blocking/arrow-drawing units, and elephants if you're into that. Plus their blood summons are really good and possibly worth building a bless around, especially their Melqarts, which are better than Hinnom's for never having Astral, but having enough Air to Cloud Trapeze, Mistform etc., something nobody ever really expects giants to do. You can get an N9E4 Statue of Fertility with Dom 7 and neutral scales awake, or take them dormant with 4 positive/imprisoned with 6. That's pretty reasonable, especially when you can Blood Sac. If you take them imprisoned at 'just' Dom 6, you can get 7 scales, or 6 and E5 for some of the globals and ranged attacks you'd have trouble reaching otherwise.
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Apr 15, 2014 14:53
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Does empowerment change your bless or is it set in stone from the start?
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Apr 15, 2014 19:16
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Huh, the new Caelum archers have magic bows that do armor negating stun damage. Source: Type 2547 into the Dom4 mod inspector. 2548 are the Iron Hail archers. If you keep going sequentially, you can see the new Ahura gods which seems to be the new pretenders for Caelum.  2547 Blizzard Archer 2548 Iron Hail Archer 2552 Ahura of Wisdom 2553 Ahura of the Oath 2554 Ahura of the Waters 2555 Spenta Mainyu amuayse fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 19:24
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Flython posted:Does empowerment change your bless or is it set in stone from the start? Nothing but thrones can change your bless after the game starts
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Apr 15, 2014 19:32
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amuayse posted:Huh, the new Caelum archers have magic bows that do armor negating stun damage. For people that doesn't know how the inspector works, you simply can click on unit tab, click advanced, and then click in "id" to order the list by id. Now just look at the highest numbers. Right now, both archers are sacred, but wingless and... commanders, not normal units. I wonder if it's something just temporal. edit: hahah, the Frost Bow, being a frost bow, isn't compatible with fire bless. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 22:58
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So, uh, those sacred archers are useless. 55 and 60 gold a piece!
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Apr 15, 2014 23:04
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Even more easy:
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Apr 15, 2014 23:04
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It looks like some weapons now have a listed material (for instance, short swords are "ferrous" and short bows are "flammable"). It seems we're going to get things like magnet spells and fire burning wooden items.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:14
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Microcline posted:It looks like some weapons now have a listed material (for instance, short swords are "ferrous" and short bows are "flammable"). It seems we're going to get things like magnet spells and fire burning wooden items. That's great, it goes very well with the Dominions style of spells and effects and units interacting in improvised, interesting combinations and logical cause and effects.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:23
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Turin Turambar posted:For people that doesn't know how the inspector works, you simply can click on unit tab, click advanced, and then click in "id" to order the list by id. Now just look at the highest numbers. All units are also commanders, or more accurately units and commanders share the same base stats. In game they're differentiated, but in mod inspector you see the base state.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:54
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TheDemon posted:All units are also commanders, or more accurately units and commanders share the same base stats. In game they're differentiated, but in mod inspector you see the base state. To clarify; whether a unit is recruited as a commander or a unit depends on if you use the command to tell the unit to be recruited as a commander or as a unit. You can in fact have exactly the same unit recruited as both troop and commander forms; from the game's perspective whether a unit is a troop or a commander is determined by the nation that recruits it or the spell that summons it, not the unit itself.
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Apr 16, 2014 02:44
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Jon Joe posted:So, uh, those sacred archers are useless. 55 and 60 gold a piece! Perhaps the Frost Bow is going to have its own AP6 attack to offset the lack of any possible F9 bless (although I guess it'll work with D9), and maybe we'll get a national W3 Frost Arrows spell at Ench 4 to give a much broader version of it, like I wanted to mod in ages ago (W3 rather than W4, because Caelum doesn't have that much base W2, and the W+ spell is underwater-only/you need Constr-6 to get a Water Bracelet).
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Apr 16, 2014 02:56
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jBrereton posted:Those are Commander costs rather than unit costs, I think they'll be 35/40 as units. The Frost Bow does 10 cold based armor negating stun damage on hit, which is presumably part of the reason for the 'fire enchant doesn't work on ice weapons' bless and is amazing because stun damage is awesome.
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Apr 16, 2014 03:02
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Neruz posted:The Frost Bow does 10 cold based armor negating stun damage on hit, which is presumably part of the reason for the 'fire enchant doesn't work on ice weapons' bless and is amazing because stun damage is awesome. It's true, stun damage is absurd. Especially if it ignores MR. in AwesomeSites I made sprites available for 50 gold a pop that did 100 Stun damage on hit with MR negates, and no normal damage, and people still bought them in droves. 100 is a lot more than 10, but 10 ignoring MR is still loving amazing, especially if it also deals normal damage.
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Apr 16, 2014 11:46
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jBrereton posted:Those are Commander costs rather than unit costs, I think they'll be 35/40 as units. Those are unit costs. Illwinter would have to make a different unit if they wanted the commander to be separately costed. Gold cost is gold cost regardless of how it's used. That said, I think it's probably an autocalc cost as-is?
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Apr 16, 2014 11:49
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TheDemon posted:Those are unit costs. Illwinter would have to make a different unit if they wanted the commander to be separately costed. Gold cost is gold cost regardless of how it's used. That said, I think it's probably an autocalc cost as-is? Autocalc only works on commanders so if you set something to an autocalc cost and tell it to be recruited as a commander and as a unit the commander version will be more expensive. That said I have no idea how the mod inspector handles autocalc.
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Apr 16, 2014 11:54
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TheDemon posted:Those are unit costs. Illwinter would have to make a different unit if they wanted the commander to be separately costed. Gold cost is gold cost regardless of how it's used. That said, I think it's probably an autocalc cost as-is?
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Apr 16, 2014 13:13
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jBrereton posted:It is an autocalc cost, see the #basecost at 10013, and the Mod Inspector is examining them as a commander. That actually adds 30 gold to their cost, not 20 (I misremembered earlier), so they look like they'll probably be 25/30 as units. That would make more sense, a fair price for a sacred per12 archer with a magical bow with a special effect. Hard to amass like other archers, but with the appropriate bless I suppose it can be worth it.
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Apr 16, 2014 13:35
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Turin Turambar posted:That would make more sense, a fair price for a sacred per12 archer with a magical bow with a special effect. Hard to amass like other archers, but with the appropriate bless I suppose it can be worth it.
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Apr 16, 2014 13:46
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I have been reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series and it occurs to me that a number of the societies would make excellent Dominions races. The Malazans with their standard and heavy infantry, their cadre mages, high mages and sappers. The Letherii with their spirit readers, indebted populations, their Cedas, etc. If I looked at old Dom 3 threads someone has probably already tried.
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Apr 16, 2014 15:24
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jBrereton posted:It is an autocalc cost, see the #basecost at 10013, and the Mod Inspector is examining them as a commander. That actually adds 30 gold to their cost, not 20 (I misremembered earlier), so they look like they'll probably be 25/30 as units. I went ahead and changed these two monsters to be units as that is how they will be used in game. Autocalc is described on page 13 of the modding manual and the mod inspector follows that description. All costs (unit and commander) are autocalc costs. Just a different formula for commanders and units.
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Apr 16, 2014 15:42
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You can set specific unit costs and technically resource costs up, you just don't put the 10000+/- modifier on the gcost, and you fiddle about with the rcost, but yeah.
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Apr 16, 2014 15:55
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Is there any way to gauge how much longer a siege is going to take from a besieger's point of view?
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Apr 16, 2014 15:58
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Mecharasputin posted:Is there any way to gauge how much longer a siege is going to take from a besieger's point of view?
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Apr 16, 2014 16:05
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Donkringel posted:I have been reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series and it occurs to me that a number of the societies would make excellent Dominions races. The Malazans with their standard and heavy infantry, their cadre mages, high mages and sappers. The Letherii with their spirit readers, indebted populations, their Cedas, etc. If Icarium enters combat, all other combatants are automatically slain with no MR check. That province loses 50% + 1d100% population. Surrounding provinces lose 1d100% population. There is a 10% chance the game ends abruptly, because the entire world is destroyed. If Mappo is present, he gets one free attack on Icarium before any other actions. If he does any damage, Icarium is knocked out for the battle.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:27
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Ynglaur posted:If Icarium enters combat, all other combatants are automatically slain with no MR check. That province loses 50% + 1d100% population. Surrounding provinces lose 1d100% population. There is a 10% chance the game ends abruptly, because the entire world is destroyed. *A group of adventurer's has decided to end your corrupt rule!* "Well, honestly they brought Icarium on themselves."
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Apr 16, 2014 16:32
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Donkringel posted:I have been reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series and it occurs to me that a number of the societies would make excellent Dominions races. The Malazans with their standard and heavy infantry, their cadre mages, high mages and sappers. The Letherii with their spirit readers, indebted populations, their Cedas, etc. You cast the new global enchantment "Ritual of Tellann." You are now MA Ermor, regardless of previous faction.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:39
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Donkringel posted:I have been reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series and it occurs to me that a number of the societies would make excellent Dominions races. The Malazans with their standard and heavy infantry, their cadre mages, high mages and sappers. The Letherii with their spirit readers, indebted populations, their Cedas, etc. It's been done for at least one faction, though Dom3 modding is so easy you're free to give it a go yourself. I haven't read the books, so I have no idea how accurate they are.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:42
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Speleothing posted:It's been done for at least one faction, though Dom3 modding is so easy you're free to give it a go yourself. I haven't read the books, so I have no idea how accurate they are. Ok, I got curious and googled it. Pretty much everything I had in mind has already been done! Really cool.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:53
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jBrereton posted:Not really. On a capital siege, best estimate is "loving ages", so don't put your good army there. Not true, you can extrapolate the exact strength of your sieging forces and ballpark the repair strength of the defending forces (or accurately read it if you've already seen the defenders), check the total Defense of the fort type, and come up with an accurate range of turns before you break it. Siege/repair strength of a unit is calculated about the same way: (strength * strength) / 100, then plus 1 if it is flying, and plus a bonus listed in special abilities if applicable. Mindless units are special and contribute only 10% of the number to repairs, so they suck at stopping sieges. You can calculate that strength 10 guys do 1 siege damage or repair a turn, strength 20 guys do 4 siege damage or repair a turn, etc. If I have 300 strength 10 guys sieging and you have somewhere between between 50 and 100 strength 10 guys defending, in a 800 defense fort, it will take 4 turns to break it. This is of course assuming that the enemy doesn't have ways of changing his visible force size way outside of the normal range you would get for seeing nearby enemies, and that they don't summon a bunch of new defenders. MrBims fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 18:00
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Someone did it, not sure how good/balanced it is
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Apr 16, 2014 18:03
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Donkringel posted:I have been reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series and it occurs to me that a number of the societies would make excellent Dominions races. The Malazans with their standard and heavy infantry, their cadre mages, high mages and sappers. The Letherii with their spirit readers, indebted populations, their Cedas, etc. The Hidden In Snow spell is a direct reference to the T'lan Imass.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:52
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MrBims posted:This is of course assuming that the enemy doesn't have ways of changing his visible force size way outside of the normal range you would get for seeing nearby enemies, and that they don't summon a bunch of new defenders.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:11
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