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Bloody Queef posted:Remember, feminism is about freedom of choice. And your friends are choosing to have financial discipline imposed on them, not being forced into it. It isn't really a choice if you had no ability to take the other option.
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Apr 16, 2014 12:07
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If women are raised to be dependent on men, that's exactly what they'll end up doing. It's ingrained. So if a woman springs for dinner or tells you to quit the chivalrous bullshit...she's a keeper.
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Apr 16, 2014 12:13
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Yeah you have to take into account conditioning and socialisation. The 'choice' to accept subservient roles isn't made in a vacuum.
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Apr 16, 2014 12:17
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:This isn't related to gymchat, but it's something I've been noticing more and more lately. Well obviously it's easier to follow someone else's plan than do it all yourself. No, I do the finances between my husband and I because he's just too lazy or feigns ignorance. Women are also responsible for 60% of consumer spending so they're having an effect on budgets regardless.
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Apr 16, 2014 12:19
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:This isn't related to gymchat, but it's something I've been noticing more and more lately. Might depend on where you are/who you hang around? Anecdotally, I have the entirely opposite experience. Most of the men I know are like, "what is a budget" and the women are like  MUST MAX ALL RETIREMENTS AND WATCH SPENDING!! It's a good thing most of these men are then paired with these women.(Sample size is in/near a big city and almost everyone involved is either a software engineer or married to one.)
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Apr 16, 2014 13:13
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:This isn't related to gymchat, but it's something I've been noticing more and more lately. That's more or less how we do it, and it would be nice if my wife showed more of an interest in our finances. It's frustrating sometimes because I feel like I'm constantly guilting her into not buying things we don't need, where all she'll see is the bank balance and not what got us there (curbing un-necessary spending). We each get blow money (a whopping $20 every two weeks). It burns a hole in my wife's pocket so she never has any where I'm wayyyyyyy too stingy with it. I think I have about $200 saved right now and I bought a kindle paperwhite and refinished my pool table with that money this year. I recently proposed to my wife that she would get more blow money, but it would have to cover things like haircuts/color, etc. Really, we're doing "fine" with money but we have child #2 in the oven right now and daycare is going to be $1000+/mo, home rennovations hopefully to be wrapped up in the near future, and we're considering buying a newer vehicle. We're going to have to be REALLY careful with our spending going forward.
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Apr 16, 2014 13:18
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peter banana posted:No, I do the finances between my husband and I because he's just too lazy or feigns ignorance. Women are also responsible for 60% of consumer spending so they're having an effect on budgets regardless. I would agree with this. Any budgeting I do goes no where if I don't get my wife on board. It's weird for us as I do all the finance and banking, but she does all the purchasing. And it's not buying the stereotypical billion shoes or anything, it's just simply when we need something, food, clothes, whatever, she takes care of. Edit: I have content I've been meaning to add. Coworker I work with is bad with money. In the last year I've seen him go on the same cycle of finding out his wife maxed her credit cards, he rips them up angrily and they fight, then he borrows from his 401K to pay for it. His wife is super nice, but an absolute spend a holic. She spent $500 on random Christmas gifts for people last Christmas, and now wants a new ford over her perfectly working current car (that isn't paid off) because she deserves a grown up car. He can be just as bad on impulse purchases, so together it's pretty depressing to see the always borrowing, always re doing loans, etc. Duckman2008 fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 13:20
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My wife is way more used to not having money than I am, so I'm pretty happy to just let her handle the finances. I do max out the retirement stuff, though. I'm the one that's bad with money, because no matter what I made, I spent all of it without really saving, because I never really had to worry about it. Thankfully, I've always treated my 401k as sacrosanct, and consider stock bonuses as retirement investments, so I don't expect to be dirt poor at retirement, and my wife is used to being a starving grad student so she understands budgets.
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Apr 16, 2014 13:42
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We budget together but I usually handle the software and keep her reminded of our balances. It's a fine line between imposition and egalitarian roles. We switched it up last month for a month just to try it and it sucked! I spent like three years learning all the budget methods and softwares and workflow and I totally forgot how much I had learned. It was frustrating for both of us. I think a good case is in the lack of saying "no," or if one of us does then it's more of a joke in response to some dream expense like, "let's fly to Tokyo!" So if she wants, say, a $300 kitchen gadget, or when I got an iPad, then we both try to shift priorities to make it work. There's no resentment because any time a thing comes up, we balance it together to fit it in. It works really well with the way that we try to eschew "wants" and the whole stoic life philosophy that we both happen to really dig.
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Apr 16, 2014 14:19
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tuyop posted:I did Crossfit for years, the gym I followed was ideally suited for the physical training of combat arms soldiers and the results were awesome. It doesn't seem very efficient for most people's goals, but the cultiness is a sign that people loving love it so that's really nice! I'm not totally convinced that whipping around weight like that is necessarily good for you, but again, they're still hugely winning compared to most people. Plus, crossfit girls. I would happily budget that $$$ per month to keep my spouse that hot. MMM obviously agrees, as his wife's crossfit membership is his only regular excessive expense. Zeppelin Insanity posted:This isn't related to gymchat, but it's something I've been noticing more and more lately. No Wave fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 14:53
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:This isn't related to gymchat, but it's something I've been noticing more and more lately. I'm sure it completely depends. My wife doesn't currently work, but handles all of our budgeting which ended up being the best thing in the world for me.
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Apr 16, 2014 15:16
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Is it just me or is there some kind of societal expectation women have that finances are a man's responsibility? Admittedly it's anecdotal, but a lot of my friends who are women, even those who are fiscally responsible, outright say that they'd prefer it and find it easier to have financial discipline imposed on them by someone. However, maybe your female friends are just giving you a hint that they want some... you know, *discipline* ... imposed on them. 
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Apr 16, 2014 15:34
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:This isn't related to gymchat, but it's something I've been noticing more and more lately. My fiance will most likely manage our money (we're both quite good at it). She has a better eye for maddening detail and budgeting. She also intends to be a stay-at-home mom until our future children go off to school.
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Apr 16, 2014 15:42
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I think wishing to have someone else manage the budgeting is a natural human reaction to having to handle the budgeting. I never understood women who didn't want control of their finances (always seemed particularly vulnerable to me) until after having to do it myself for many many years. It gets exhausting maintaining a household and the thought of a successful person just taking it from me and handling it all, so that my only worries are existing and making that person happy.... I can see the appeal. It still sounds creepily like a parent-child relationship to me rather than two peers forging a life together, but I get it.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:11
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Yeah, I 100% agree. My wife is busy with school, so I handle everything with the finances, but it's understood that as soon as she is done, she is handling it. I loving hate paying bills and handling this poo poo.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:16
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ExtrudeAlongCurve posted:Might depend on where you are/who you hang around? Not to overgeneralise, but I find that the confidence you'll find another job quickly is prevalent in tech jobs like software engineering. So it might not be a male thing, just a tech thing (and sad to say there is still a massive gender imbalance in the field).
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Apr 16, 2014 16:28
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I do all of the budgeting and make most of the money in my household, but my wife does the most spending. We have a bi weekly finance meeting and that pretty much let's her know where we are at budget wise and what categories she can spend money in. She grew up dirt poor so she usually goes under budget thank heavens. Speaking of my wife and bad with money. My father in law has most of his net worth tied up in various worthless collectables. I once asked if he has every hot wheels car ever made and he just said "try me". I'm not looking forward to the day when he passes away and we have to go through piles of beanie babies, cabbage patch kids, precious moments figurines, and who knows what else. He is still under the impression that these things are worth a lot of money and I just don't have the heart to argue with him. At least he has stopped buying more stuff several years ago.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:53
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I went on a date once with a guy who decided - unilaterally - that because I had twice the income, I should pay twice the expenses. And, at dinner that night, when it offered to buy the desserts, he immediately orders the most expensive thing on the menu, as well as a glass of port. The rest of the dinner we went Dutch. We didn't go on a second date, and I refused to pay for the port. That's beyond dessert, IMHO. He still whines about it to this day. I just flat out stopped talking to him. Yeah, good luck in finding a sugar momma, because it's not going to be me.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:07
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Qu Appelle posted:I went on a date once with a guy who decided - unilaterally - that because I had twice the income, I should pay twice the expenses. And, at dinner that night, when it offered to buy the desserts, he immediately orders the most expensive thing on the menu, as well as a glass of port. The rest of the dinner we went Dutch. This made me laugh like crazy. If I went on a date with a guy and acted like that, I'd expect to get dumped at a bus stop without so much as a glance over the shoulder. I always found the idea of women ordering expensive meals to show how much they are "worth" to men to be ridiculous, and it turns out it is just as hilarious gender-swapped.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:24
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Trilineatus posted:This made me laugh like crazy. If I went on a date with a guy and acted like that, I'd expect to get dumped at a bus stop without so much as a glance over the shoulder. I always found the idea of women ordering expensive meals to show how much they are "worth" to men to be ridiculous, and it turns out it is just as hilarious gender-swapped. Yeah. He also had a bunch of expensive habits he just couldn't drop, where my idea of a good time is curling up with a good book and a mug of tea.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:31
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Trilineatus posted:I'd expect to get dumped
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Apr 16, 2014 17:33
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Qu Appelle posted:Yeah. He also had a bunch of expensive habits he just couldn't drop, where my idea of a good time is curling up with a good book and a mug of tea. BFCs dream girl, and my personal role model  Do you keep excel spreadsheets on your tea spending and kindle purchases? How's your 401k?
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Apr 16, 2014 17:33
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Trilineatus posted:BFCs dream girl, and my personal role model Clearly British with no 401k, so she can not be the lady peoples champion of BFC. VVVV WELL gently caress ME I WAS WRONG. Veskit fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 17:41
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Trilineatus posted:BFCs dream girl, and my personal role model Excel, no. Mental checklist, yes. I just got a nice tasty black caravan tea  Kindle purchases? Oh kitten. More like Kindle rentals from the library and Amazon Prime. I'm also a year backed up on the New Yorker. Which is great, as I'm currently unemployed, and the UI hasn't kicked in yet. And my 401K and ROTH IRA are happily squirreled away, moneying and poo poo. And I live in Seattle I CAN BE ANYTHING 
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Apr 16, 2014 17:42
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Qu Appelle posted:Kindle purchases? Oh kitten. More like Kindle rentals from the library and Amazon Prime. I'm also a year backed up on the New Yorker. Which is great, as I'm currently unemployed, and the UI hasn't kicked in yet. You jerks in the US with your Kindle library support and poo poo. 
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Apr 16, 2014 17:52
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I have my kindle fire running on android, and has been for a while, so I ruined my ability to use the kindle library  it's me! I'm bad at money!
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Apr 16, 2014 18:17
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tuyop posted:You jerks in the US with your Kindle library support and poo poo. I live abroad but still have an active library account through my public library back home, which I can use to get Kindle books. It's fuckin' fantastic, especially because the DRM doesn't seem to work (books I check out from the library stay readable on my Kindle in perpetuity).
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Apr 17, 2014 00:02
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Pompous Rhombus posted:I live abroad but still have an active library account through my public library back home, which I can use to get Kindle books. It's fuckin' fantastic, especially because the DRM doesn't seem to work (books I check out from the library stay readable on my Kindle in perpetuity). I wonder if there's any way to set up a US library account for this purpose. That's probably pretty :files: though.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:18
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Pompous Rhombus posted:I live abroad but still have an active library account through my public library back home, which I can use to get Kindle books. It's fuckin' fantastic, especially because the DRM doesn't seem to work (books I check out from the library stay readable on my Kindle in perpetuity). That's because the ebook Kindles don't have an internal calendar, just a clock. So, as long as you don't have the wifi or 3G on, the kindle won't sync and remove the books. I've had library books on mine from December.
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Apr 17, 2014 01:52
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Bloody Queef posted:Women are increasingly staying at home with kids. So it would make sense that some more traditional gender roles are on the rise. quote:It’s not rich women “opting out” or a desire to return to traditional gender roles that’s causing the increase in SAHMs; it’s the lack of jobs and options.
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Apr 17, 2014 04:14
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As an aside, I had written up a pretty E/N post in response to that 40k in debt thing because it hit close to home (I don't have any debt, but soon I'm gonna be in grad school with loans/probably not working, for the first time), which means a substantial drop to my standard of living, which I'm really not looking forward to. I actually have more than enough saved for the tuition, but have to use that money to live off of and take out a loan for the tuition. It's tempting to take out an even bigger loan so I can continue to do stuff like have my own place instead of roommates, have a motorbike, etc... but realistically I know I need to just suck it up and tighten my belt. It seems the solution to this was to just spend all afternoon reading MMM, because now I'm pretty psyched to getting back to bicycle commuting (like I did my senior year of college), and having roommates will probably help with making new friends, since I know literally nobody there.  Qu Appelle posted:That's because the ebook Kindles don't have an internal calendar, just a clock. So, as long as you don't have the wifi or 3G on, the kindle won't sync and remove the books. I've had library books on mine from December. Thanks for the heads up, I'll leave 3G off when I'm back in the US after August! Oral Slither posted:Many of those stay at home moms DON'T have a choice. That and daycare costs. tuyop posted:I wonder if there's any way to set up a US library account for this purpose. That's probably pretty :files: though. Probably not, without showing you live there. You could always ask to share someone elses', but I imagine that's a legal grey area at best. My sister's offered to let me use hers; her husband is in the military so with their moves in the last few years she's already accumulated access to three different public libraries' electronic collections. One thing I miss about being in the US is the ease of affordable access to media: local library with inter-library loan for popular fiction, audiobooks, and some DVD's, university library ($40/year for alumni membership) for non-fic, art/photography books, and whatever weird academic books struck my fancy. Netflix for movies/shows, and my Zune Pass (still got it, grandfathered in on the old $15/mo for unlimited DRM'd stuff plus 10 free song credits) for music. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 04:47
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Pompous Rhombus posted:
Very good. Keep in mind that this is just for the black and white/greyscale Kindles, the ones that you can only read books on. This trick won't work on Kindle Fires.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:07
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It works on the Kindle app for other devices.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:38
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i like nice words
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I don't know if this counts as bad with money or just being young. I have a friend that works as a reservist in the army a few days a week and at Sport Chek another few days a week, so not making that much money. He's 20 years old and I've been trying to teach him about saving, investing, financial planning, that kind of stuff since I wish I had started earlier. I thought I had gotten him excited about planning by showing him an article about how if he started saving just $361 every month he would retire a millionaire, whereas at my age I'd have to save close to $1000/month. This would be totally doable by him with the amount he's working now and him living at home. We went for beers tonight and I asked whether he was putting away money. He said "Dude, I can't save that! I got car payments to make!" On his brand new $25,000 2014 Ford Focus. Financed. Sigh.
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Apr 18, 2014 08:08
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Mantle posted:I don't know if this counts as bad with money or just being young. I have a friend that works as a reservist in the army a few days a week and at Sport Chek another few days a week, so not making that much money. He's 20 years old and I've been trying to teach him about saving, investing, financial planning, that kind of stuff since I wish I had started earlier. I thought I had gotten him excited about planning by showing him an article about how if he started saving just $361 every month he would retire a millionaire, whereas at my age I'd have to save close to $1000/month. This would be totally doable by him with the amount he's working now and him living at home. Unless you are rolling in cash, no one is saving 360 bucks a month when you are 20. I mean, paying 25k on a Ford Focus isn't smart at all, but even if he was driving a hand me down beater I doubt he'd have the money to save that much.
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Apr 18, 2014 15:58
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CitizenKain posted:Unless you are rolling in cash, no one is saving 360 bucks a month when you are 20. I mean, paying 25k on a Ford Focus isn't smart at all, but even if he was driving a hand me down beater I doubt he'd have the money to save that much. Yeah they're too busy spending that poo poo on booze, gasoline, and video games.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:00
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CitizenKain posted:Unless you are rolling in cash, no one is saving 360 bucks a month when you are 20. I mean, paying 25k on a Ford Focus isn't smart at all, but even if he was driving a hand me down beater I doubt he'd have the money to save that much. I work retail at minimum wage and save ~$750/month. Can't imagine living at home, working full-time or near full-time, and not saving -- after doing that, how are you supposed to adjust to life with rent?
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Apr 18, 2014 16:07
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CitizenKain posted:Unless you are rolling in cash, no one is saving 360 bucks a month when you are 20. I mean, paying 25k on a Ford Focus isn't smart at all, but even if he was driving a hand me down beater I doubt he'd have the money to save that much. People who max out their IRAs in their teenage years pulling in about 800 bucks a month part-time do exist. The fact that most people are financially irresponsible early on(myself included) doesn't mean it's the way things always have to be.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:20
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Maxing out your Roth IRA (currently) is $458/month. Maxing it out 2008-2012 was $417/month. It's pretty doable especially because you only have to do it over the course of a year (you can pay less one month and make up for it the next). Salaried people paid biweekly have a huge advantage over hourly wage workers -- those two unbudgeted paychecks.
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Apr 18, 2014 17:05
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See, that's why I'm a big advocate of creating an artificial environment of scarcity. Take that money away before it even hits your bank account. I had no clue about anything money related when I was young, but I was good enough at math to understand the concept of free money. So I put into my 401k as far as the company matched and I maxed out the employee stock purchase plan (because it had a stupidly nice discount). I doubt you could have forced me to budget. And even then, if my diet was any indication, I would have ignored it anyhow. But I never touched the money I never saw. (Well, ok, I sold the stock after 10 years and made a bad investment with it. But I didn't just flit it away.)
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Apr 18, 2014 17:34
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