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I don't think that was exactly purpose of the change. The change added "....and advise" to standardize the way we ask pilots for verification that they're turning back on course after being authorized to deviate for weather. Or at least that's what I took from it. The focus was clarifying when a pilot is allowed to turn back to their route and how they should report it. There were problems at some facilities with folks turning toward traffic after deviating when ATC intended for them to remain on a vector/route around the weather.
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Apr 14, 2014 14:22
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Tommy 2.0 posted:Masters is nothing compared to Sun n Fun for us. And yes, we work the low stuff for them both. The biggest difference between Masters/Sun n' Fun for us is the sheer volume of VF-Tards we have to deal with. These guys fly once in a blue moon just for this one event and have zero clue what they are doing. Masters is pretty well structured now, imo, and it just gets treated as another busy approach control we have to feed (like CLT landers). AGS approach is sort of humorous to us, because at even 6am in the morning they won't let ANYONE fly through their airspace, even at 120. I had to sell a ketchup popsicle to a lady in white gloves to get them to take a VFR. :P Masters IS a lot better than it used to be, years ago. When it does blow up, it's usually because of the VFRs and the lack of parking space at the airport. As for the overflights, I was working Augusta sector on Thursday, Allendale handled me off a guy at 80 landing AVL (Ashville, NC) that would have gone right through the middle of AGS Appch. I checked but they were already not accepting handoffs on overflights, so I called Allendale to tell them he either needed to go over ALD and go east, or over DBN (Dublin, GA) and go west around it. The pilot opted to go over DBN, but then later after I handed him off to Macon Approach I saw him squawk VFR and head direct.
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Apr 14, 2014 14:50
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The Ferret King posted:I don't think that was exactly purpose of the change. The change added "....and advise" to standardize the way we ask pilots for verification that they're turning back on course after being authorized to deviate for weather. I took it this way as well, and this was basically what I had been taught to do in the first place training on radar. I toured Salt Lake City tower and TRACON a few weeks ago, and got invited to sit in their daily crew meeting with folks from upstairs and downstairs. I got to hear all about climb via and the converging runway arrival/departure window. During the climb via presentation I learned that in 2008 when SLC turned on all their RNAV departures, they were basically using the climb via rules, and they had 70 pilot deviations in 10 days. The arrivals enter the downwind at 11,000 and most of the RNAV departures share a common fix underneath the downwind to be at or below 10,000. They guessed pilots saw the top altitude of the SID (23,000) and would just put that in and climb right through the downwind traffic. There were some very nervous controllers in the TRACON for a few weeks before they started manually stopping all departures at 10,000.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:08
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The Ferret King posted:When you certify at a Tower/TRACON facility you also realize in short order that all of your time will be spent working in the dark, while trainees get the tower time. That is why you try to get a trainee. Cerebral Mayhem posted:Masters IS a lot better than it used to be, years ago. When it does blow up, it's usually because of the VFRs and the lack of parking space at the airport. As for the overflights, I was working Augusta sector on Thursday, Allendale handled me off a guy at 80 landing AVL (Ashville, NC) that would have gone right through the middle of AGS Appch. I checked but they were already not accepting handoffs on overflights, so I called Allendale to tell them he either needed to go over ALD and go east, or over DBN (Dublin, GA) and go west around it. The pilot opted to go over DBN, but then later after I handed him off to Macon Approach I saw him squawk VFR and head direct. Yeah it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than even last year. I heard years ago it was a huge cluster. Not surprising. I don't know how it is on ATL's side, but it is structured on the ZJX side pretty well these days. Yeah, noticably increased volume/complexity but the pilots know what's up. The only problem really is dealing with AGS approach, since they aren't as proficient at volume/complexity that the masters provides for them once a year. Yeah, we do get VF-tards for masters, but nowhere NEAR to the level we get them for sun'n'fun. Oh, if you talked to ALD last night you may have talked to me. Not about that guy landing AVL though. I know better. Tommy 2.0 fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 19:52
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Tommy 2.0 posted:That is why you try to get a trainee. Not worth it, I'll take my dark cave anytime
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Apr 14, 2014 19:56
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Iucounu posted:Not worth it, I'll take my dark cave anytime I don't think I'll be volunteering to train en-route any time soon, so I hear you. And in all fairness, the FAA doesn't even train it seems. They just mostly monitor and write up what you did bad/good at the end of the day. It seems to be rare in this agency for someone to actually train their trainee, as opposed to plugging in and hoping to monitor.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:58
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Tommy 2.0 posted:That is why you try to get a trainee. Oh I have one. He's just about done with radar.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:25
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The Ferret King posted:Oh I have one. He's just about done with radar. I know I have been more proud, felt more accomplished, with a trainee getting checked out than the actual trainee. Good feeling man.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:28
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Tommy 2.0 posted:That is why you try to get a trainee. Nope, I'm off Sat/Sun (took me 17 years to get it!  ) So on Monday, i usually work a 1500 shift (3-11pm), Tuesday a 1300 (1-9pm), Wed a 0800 (8am-4pm), Thursday a 0545 (5:45am-1:45pm), then finally a Friday Mid shift 2230 (10:30pm-6:30am). I like working mids.I thought about doing something like, "Allendale, Augusta 06, Bulldog's going active, do you have stairs in your house?" but decided not to. 
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Apr 14, 2014 21:56
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How long does it usually take you guys to shift change? I swear no poo poo I'll get called, reply, and on the next call to the next person its a completely different guy. I'm pretty impressed with how seemless it is.
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Apr 15, 2014 04:40
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Start to finish, the position relief process takes about 5 minutes. The relieving controller plugs in, reviews the information for the position, then tells the controller being relieved to start the verbal briefing. Usually the verbal briefing takes a minute or two, depending on the complexity of the current operation. Once the verbal briefing is complete, the relieving controller says they now have the position and they begin talking on the radio. The controller being relieved stays plugged in for at least 2 minutes to monitor the operation and clarify anything that was missed during the transfer of responsibility. We usually get a break every 1 to 1.5 hrs. Sometimes we're on for shorter periods to get the staffing rotation aligned for training or leave requests. Sometimes sectors are split up or combined to meet traffic demands. All of these things may cause a new voice to be heard on frequency. If you hear one voice, then another voice that issues a correction, then right back to the first voice, that's probably somebody who is training and they just got overridden because they goofed up. The instructor plugs into a jack that has override authority on the trainee's jack. If I'm training someone and they start to say something that's bad wrong, I can cut them off just by pressing my push-to-talk button. I'll either issue a corrected transmission, or I can just hold the button down and cover my mic to keep the trainee's transmission from broadcasting in the first place. The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 07:56
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Bob A Feet posted:How long does it usually take you guys to shift change? I swear no poo poo I'll get called, reply, and on the next call to the next person its a completely different guy. I'm pretty impressed with how seemless it is. The Ferret King posted:Start to finish, the position relief process takes about 5 minutes. That's how it's supposed to be done... Depending on the person you're relieving, it can take as little as 3 seconds. "You're talking to the highlighted ones". Unplugs and walks away.
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Apr 15, 2014 13:38
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fknlo posted:That's how it's supposed to be done...  big enough to simulate to look on people's faces when they heard that.Since then we've redesigned the relief briefing checklist and I think we're doing better with it now, but there are still a few holdouts who just refuse to deliver an adequate briefing.
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Apr 15, 2014 14:08
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We have one controller who takes forever with her relief briefings and stops giving any clearances once she starts it. So you'll be sitting there watching everything go to poo poo while she's explaining why she had to level this plane for some other traffic that's not traffic anymore. And you just wish she was one of those people that say "you got it" and unplug.
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Apr 15, 2014 17:26
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JohnClark posted:The NTSB reviewed an incident we had not long ago, and found some pretty awful recordings of relief briefings. Our QA folks made up a video of 6 briefings, from best to worst, and the worst one was literally, word-for-word, "So you're <sector>, blah blah blah, <initials>." There isn't a Yeah, I think the completeness of relief briefings at a given facility directly correlates with how recently that facility has been chastised from above about having bad briefing compliance. Ours does an ok job. Of course I do them perfectly every time.
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Apr 15, 2014 18:06
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Cerebral Mayhem posted:Nope, I'm off Sat/Sun (took me 17 years to get it! You should. Either its not me and they go "say again" or I'm there and "roger, and yes I am protected". Sinbad's Sex Tape posted:We have one controller who takes forever with her relief briefings and stops giving any clearances once she starts it. So you'll be sitting there watching everything go to poo poo while she's explaining why she had to level this plane for some other traffic that's not traffic anymore. And you just wish she was one of those people that say "you got it" and unplug. Do I work with you? We have the same person I swear. The Ferret King posted:Yeah, I think the completeness of relief briefings at a given facility directly correlates with how recently that facility has been chastised from above about having bad briefing compliance. Ours does an ok job. Of course I do them perfectly every time. Of course! We all do! Bob A Feet posted:How long does it usually take you guys to shift change? I swear no poo poo I'll get called, reply, and on the next call to the next person its a completely different guy. I'm pretty impressed with how seemless it is. Ferret went over it in aspergers err detail but yeah. It CAN be that quick/seamless even if done correctly and by the checklist. I've noticed where I am at EVERYONE goes by their checklist. Not everyone sticks around a bit after though. If it's dead I'll take a quick glance and go. If it's moderate/busy I'll hang back a sec until I'm sure they have it. Tommy 2.0 fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 20:49
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The speed in which I run through the checklist definitely goes up with the busier I am/the longer I've been on position/how bad I have to pee. I can talk really fast when I'm trying to give up the position in the middle of a big military practice approach push. We've just recently gotten the hammer put down on putting the 2 minute overlap completion on a recorded line or get the relieving CIC to waive it, a lot of people just ask to waive the 2 immediately no matter how busy it is.
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Apr 15, 2014 21:43
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Our national order and local SOP spell out exactly what must be covered during the verbal briefing. That said, we have folks that say much less than required, and many who say way too much. The need for standardization is understandable, but enforcement is rare and people are too focused on getting their break started. All that said, I think the FAA is determining that the majority of errors and deviations occur during training, and position relief briefings or the periods immediately following position relief briefings. So they're worth doing correctly.
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Apr 16, 2014 05:25
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I don't like it when you're squeezing in a few extra radio calls because the girl sounds cute then BAM it's a guy 
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Apr 17, 2014 00:21
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How shattered our views would be if we ever saw one another face to face. Many of those cute sounding girls often are not so cute. Also, I sound like the MovieFone guy/robot love-child. I look like a wookie.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:49
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The Ferret King posted:Many of those cute sounding girls often are not so cute. On the plus side, they can realistically be so big and still fit in the cockpit. The hot sounding lady pilots are all hot, and they all want me. It's what gets me through the day.
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Apr 17, 2014 05:17
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fknlo posted:On the plus side, they can realistically be so big and still fit in the cockpit. The hot sounding lady pilots are all hot, and they all want me. It's what gets me through the day. This. Although I'm pretty sure a certain low cost carrier that operates out of RSW a lot has hired a thirteen year old girl. SHE SOUNDS SO TINY.
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Apr 17, 2014 10:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=462H-XBpRSE
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Apr 17, 2014 12:50
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MrYenko posted:
Heard my first female All Nippon pilot about 4 weeks ago. I now take over a specific sector at around 9:30 (sundays) in the morning to catch the flight through every Sunday. She hasn't been back. I will continue to commandeer this sector at the same time to catch this flight through in hopes that she comes back to me.
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Apr 18, 2014 19:07
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One of my teachers said that there are rumors of another ATC hiring round. But rumors being rumors, the next hiring "could be anywhere from June of this year to May of next year." 
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Apr 18, 2014 19:09
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They'll absolutely have to post another. It's just a matter of when. They simply didn't select nearly enough people to advance from the recent one. I've heard rumors about it being sometime later this year as well. Hope it's true.
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Apr 18, 2014 19:41
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 GOOOOOONSSSS  Actual content: company call signs that make you hungry. I'll start. HGE3 - "Hoagie Three."
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Apr 22, 2014 00:32
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MrYenko posted:
What's all the stuff in the thing in the photo?
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Apr 22, 2014 00:59
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DNova posted:What's all the stuff in the thing in the photo? I'll do a legend when I get home in a bit. I wanted to get the cheap joke in immediately.
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Apr 22, 2014 01:11
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Southern California Logistics Airport in Victorville, CA (VCV) has a GPS approach to runway 17 and one of the missed approach points is called "SPERG." Airspace fixes/intersections are usually named using 5 letters and are pronounceable. When establishing new fixes, usually members of the Air Traffic Organization get some input on what to name them. This might be folks at a local ATC facility, or people higher up in regional offices, but a lot of the times the names are inside jokes or names of people who work there. Down here in Corpus Christi and the Rio Grande Valley, we have two intersections named JIMIE and PINRR. Jimmy Pinner was a controller years ago, I'm told, and they named the intersections after him when they were established. Other intersections in our airspace have geographical significance even though instrument aircraft using them don't operationally care so much about landmarks under the intersections, because they might be in clouds ATHIS is over the town of Mathis, TX SINTO is near the town of Sinton, TX MISSI is near Mission, TX. You can type any of these in on the search bar at https://www.skyvector.com and see their locations on aeronautical charts. Some have local significance, and some are just random groups of letters with no reason behind them. If you're not familiar with how to read the VFR Sectional charts I linked above, don't worry too much about it. The cities and towns are depicted in bright yellow, and have the names of them in black somewhere nearby. They are quite cluttered and can be difficult to read even for pilots. Also, if you select the specific area's sectional chart (upper right corner of skyvector's chart window) instead of looking at the "World VFR" one, they will have a legend printed off to the side of the chart so you can look up symbols and stuff. Like here. For the instrument charts, the legend is only on every other chart, because they're printed on both sides of the paper in real life and the legend is only on one side. The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 03:19
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MrYenko posted:I'll do a legend when I get home in a bit. I wanted to get the cheap joke in immediately. If we are posting silly strips...I have a good one in my headset drawer I will mention and forget about and never show you guys. How do you like it down there anyways in ZMA?
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Apr 22, 2014 03:19
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The Ferret King posted:Southern California Logistics Airport in Victorville, CA (VCV) has a GPS approach to runway 17 and one of the missed approach points is called "SPERG." A few of the fixes in the Boston area have sports connections BOSOX, SSOXSS, REDSX (Boston Red Sox) FENWY (Fenway Park) PATSS (New England Patriots) REVSS (New England Revolution) FOXBO (Foxboro Stadium, where both teams play, only heathens call it) GLLET (Gillette Stadium) BRWNS (Boston Bruins) CELTK (Boston Celtics) FLUTI (Doug Flutie) ORRRR (Bobby Orr) and speaking of people, there's also NIMOY (as in Leonard, grew up in Boston), REVER (Paul Revere, is also near the city of Revere) Other local references, CHWDH, HAVRD, LBSTA, PLGRM and BGDIG
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Apr 22, 2014 03:58
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Tommy 2.0 posted:How do you like it down there anyways in ZMA? The facility itself is great. I really like my coworkers, and we seem to have a really motivated group of OJTIs. (On The Job Training Instructor) We also are more of a giant terminal facility than a center, really. We have a LOT of departures and arrivals, and very little fly-over traffic. It's varied, and always challenging. The surrounding area is basically all the worst parts of the bible, though. I grew up in Fort Lauderdale, and I just can't stress enough how much of a difference thirty miles can make. Miami is a poo poo-pile with some barely-passable roads running through it. As for the enroute strip I posted...  (This is not a comprehensive description, since that strip doesn't have data in all the fields, but it'll do, pig. It'll do.) The first field at the top left is the callsign, in this case, N226N. Under that is the type aircraft, and equipment suffix, in this case, a PC-12 slant Lima, which IIRC is RNAV (Random area Nav,) GPS, and RVSM (Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums,) equipped. Under that is the filed true airspeed (T243) and the computer-observed groundspeed (G210.) Another line down is the sector number the strip is printed at, in this case , 67. On the bottom line is the Conputer ID number (993,) which is what we use to make amendments, handoffs, move the data block, etc. Next to that is the strip number (24/5,) which means it's the 24th strip printed, and the fifth amendment. The strip will generally print once per center sector, but can be requested as much as you like. The narrow column to the right is the coordination column, and shows the aircraft's position when the strip printed. This is computer generated, and almost totally useless. I think the 1800 is the Zulu time that the position was reported. Another move right is the coordination time, 1811z, which is the time the aircraft is estimated to pass over the coordination fix, which is at the bottom. (ROGAN 041/032) Those two columns look totally different on a nonradar strip, and are essentially not used on a radar strip like this. The conputer just prints that information anyway. In the fourth major column is the aircraft's requested altitude, FL220. In the sixth column is the route of flight and remarks. In this case: MYNN./.PHK070021..LAL..SZW.J73.GOONS.J73.LGC..KHSV Simplified, it means the aircraft departed Nassau, Bahamas. The "./." is a truncation, since at sector 67, we don't care what happened before PHK070021, which is the 070 radial from the Pahokee VOR, 21nm fix. That's where the computer starts processing, doing route probing, etc. From there, they're currently cleared directly to the Lakeland VOR, then direct to the Seminole VOR, join J73, (known as jet airways, they're airways at or above FL180 in the US,) to the GOONS intersection, J73 to LaGrange, then direct to Huntsville International Airport. Technically, since GOONS is on J73, it doesn't have to be on the flight plan, and it could be SZW.J73.LGC but that's the way they filed, and  .At the bottom is the remarks. The first character is a "clear weather symbol." It's used when you want the remark to be transmitted to each facility down the line that the flight plan processes to. There is also an equivalent "Obscured weather symbol," that is used to limit the remark to in-facility use only. It will not show up on a Jacksonville center strip. The remark "NONRNP10" doesn't mean poo poo to me. As an aside, if there are any dispatchers here, STOP FILING "TCAS EQUIPPED" IN YOUR REMARKS, WE DONT CARE.  The last column has the assigned unique transponder squawk code. Center goons, feel free to correct me. We literally file our strips the moment they print, so I'm a little rusty, and might have the coordination information wrong. I think that's it, though. MrYenko fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 04:02
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gently caress I'm dumb. Ignore this post.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:05
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What's the best remark you've ever seen? We had a Comanche or something overflight that had "43 kittens on board" in the remarks, somebody downstairs sent that strip up to me in the tower. I forgot to keep it unfortunately.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:09
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MrYenko posted:As an aside, if there are any dispatchers here, STOP FILING "TCAS EQUIPPED" IN YOUR REMARKS, WE DONT CARE. Isn't TCAS mandatory equipment on aircraft of a certain size anyway?
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Apr 22, 2014 04:10
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Kilonum posted:Isn't TCAS mandatory equipment on aircraft of a certain size anyway? Mandatory TCAS operation rules vary by country. That said, nowadays, damned near everyone has it.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:20
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I've heard that various online flight planning programs will automatically populate the remarks section with bullshit if nothing is manually typed in. Like when you see the name of the pilot in remarks, for example. The pilots/dispatchers are not always typing that stuff in, it's getting auto populated from other fields in the online flight plan forms.
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Apr 22, 2014 10:15
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The Ferret King posted:I've heard that various online flight planning programs will automatically populate the remarks section with bullshit if nothing is manually typed in. Like when you see the name of the pilot in remarks, for example. The pilots/dispatchers are not always typing that stuff in, it's getting auto populated from other fields in the online flight plan forms. Ya, ForeFlight throws the pilots full name in remarks, unless you disable it. Thing is, with the new ICAO equipment suffix stuff, there's a place for your TCAS equipment. And your RVSM status. And your dog's immunization records. And what you had for breakfast. It's seriously comprehensive. Which is probably why I've yet to see an ICAO flight plan filled out completely and correctly. The FAA: If it isn't broken, apply international rules until it is.
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Apr 22, 2014 11:24
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Kilonum posted:A few of the fixes in the Boston area have sports connections One of the guys in my old area at Cleveland Center is on the airspace planning/redesign team. They put a TRESL fix right over Ann Arbor.  They also added a lot of new fixes when they moved the ORD line, among those fixes is TWIGS immediately followed by BERIS (don't remember the exact spelling)
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Apr 22, 2014 12:59
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