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Everything you do on those computers is available through FOIA, so if you let's say, talking poo poo about Occupy protesters, via the messaging system to other cop bros, it can be made public. This is a thing that actually happened. My name got brought up in it because I asked a guy a question and got a rant about the protesters in reply.
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Apr 20, 2014 10:40
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:45 |
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Untagged posted:Resisting arrest can be classified as multiple things and can vary by state or locality. Although it generally includes something the suspect is doing to prevent an arrest and it's associated arrest instructions or actions conveyed by an officer making the arrest. So simply refusing to comply with instructions to place ones hands behind their back when physically able to or physically fighting or fleeing from the police may potentially be met with reasonable force to gain compliance and custody. The clear verbal commands to the suspect to "stop resisting" allow a reasonable person to know they are under arrest and any actions against such arrest or failure to comply with lawful orders during arrest may/or do constitute a resisting of an arrest. Following on from this, is it common practice to restrain someone by placing your knee, or similar body part, on their neck? I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, genuinely curious.
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Apr 20, 2014 10:48
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No, you want to put your knee somewhere it will hold the majority of their body weight down, not only will you run the risk of killing the dude, it doesn't really help much to put all your weight on a body part that's so small. It will also make the guy fight harder to get away, which probably goes against your goals. Unless your goal is to kill him. I'll put my knee on someone's shoulder though, which can look like the neck from a bystanders point of view though. Also I yell "calm down" instead of "stop resisting", cause it sounds nicer. 
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Apr 20, 2014 10:58
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Grem posted:No, you want to put your knee somewhere it will hold the majority of their body weight down, not only will you run the risk of killing the dude, it doesn't really help much to put all your weight on a body part that's so small. It will also make the guy fight harder to get away, which probably goes against your goals. Unless your goal is to kill him. I'll put my knee on someone's shoulder though, which can look like the neck from a bystanders point of view though. Also I yell "calm down" instead of "stop resisting", cause it sounds nicer. See, this is what I was hoping someone would say but there are lots of police related deaths caused by neck injuries, e.g. that one with the kid who had down syndrome in the cinema and in the Kelly Thomas video he was telling them that he couldn't breathe. I know I've seen more like that but can't remember any specifics. eh, I guess those guys hosed up v  v
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Apr 20, 2014 11:15
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Why do so many officers get away with abuse on civilians?
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Apr 20, 2014 11:45
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Why do so many officers get away with abuse on civilians? That's just like, your opinion, man.
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Apr 20, 2014 11:50
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:That's just like, your opinion, man. If you were talking to me in person you'd be stumbling over your words to call me sir.  I meant to clarify my post, but internet trouble and your poo poo answer made me decide "gently caress it, cops will never answer that question truthfully anyways". I mean we got famous poo poo like Kelly Thomas, Rodney King, and plenty of others terrorized by police and all they got was an acquittal. I don't know how we can stop jurors from thinking cops can do no wrong other than keep letting this bullshit continue until people finally say "enough" but we all know that'll never happen.
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Apr 20, 2014 11:57
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Lawyers rule the world, and we pay ours better.
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Apr 20, 2014 12:26
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Why do so many officers get away with abuse on civilians? They were trained well?
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Apr 20, 2014 12:51
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Grem posted:Lawyers rule the world, and we pay ours better. Technically you mean my tax dollars pay for your lawyers. 
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Apr 20, 2014 13:05
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Technically you mean my tax dollars pay for your lawyers. Which basically boils down to the fact that you pay people to abuse other's rights. How can you sleep at night? Edit: Oppressor.
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Apr 20, 2014 13:18
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Technically you mean my tax dollars pay for your lawyers. Ironic, huh? They also pay my salary (if you live in my city).
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Apr 20, 2014 13:30
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Grem posted:Ironic, huh? They also pay my salary (if you live in my city). Don't forget the paid vacation.
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Apr 20, 2014 14:26
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:If you were talking to me in person you'd be stumbling over your words to call me sir. people like to believe that the police are basically good and give us the benefit of the doubt, especially since a cop probably won't ever get a FTP jury. Or you get cities like LA where people just accept that LAPD might shoot you in the face if you're a certain shade a brown and driving a pickup. This is purely conjecture, but maybe most people feel that since the chances of them ever getting brutalized is next to zero that it isn't a big problem for them, kinda like how a ton of people don't give a gently caress about fracking or other environmental issues because it doesn't directly affect them, even to the detriment of the state of the planet. Police are basically the embodiment of white privilege. Stargate posted:See, this is what I was hoping someone would say but there are lots of police related deaths caused by neck injuries, e.g. that one with the kid who had down syndrome in the cinema and in the Kelly Thomas video he was telling them that he couldn't breathe. I know I've seen more like that but can't remember any specifics. I thought that downs kid in the cinema died because he was fat and couldn't breath while on his back? Either way I wouldn't say there is lots of police related deaths caused by neck injuries, and actually a lot of times you are more like squat sitting and resting some of your weight on them than actually putting 100% of your weight on their back or whatever. But no we are not trained and you should not kneel on someones neck Branis fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 14:48
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Yeah knee on the neck is bad news. I personally hate when people touch my neck, so I can only imagine how I'd lose my poo poo if some stranger was trying to put me in handcuffs and had their knee to my neck. If I'm trying to arrest someone that's resisting I'll typically go for a shoulder just to stop them from flailing around.
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Apr 20, 2014 15:45
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Branis posted:Police are basically the embodiment of white privilege. Thread title right there
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Apr 20, 2014 16:38
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Really though, would a regular citizen of the community want to put an officer in jail, and then potentially have an entire police dept out for blood? I wouldn't want to live in fear of my life everyday for putting a cop in prison. It's easier to just say not guilty and move on with my life. Makes you think.
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Apr 20, 2014 17:20
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I was always told that OC / MACE doesn't tend to work on dogs and when it does, it just pisses them off? Our first option when faced with an aggressive dog is to run away. The second option if it is gnawing on your leg is to try to beat it to death with your baton before it pierces an artery. Firearms are a lot more humane than beating it to death with a metal stick. I think a lot of civilians believe that our equipment is some sort of rock, paper scissor game. Unfortunately it isn't always effective, is often unpredictable and can even sometimes go the opposite way. I would definitely not try to spray a dog, I would be running like gently caress for high ground if some meaty attack dog was trying to bite my goulies off. Hezzy fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 17:25
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Tasters work really well on dogs if you can get both probes in, but that's kinda a crapshoot on a running animal.
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Apr 20, 2014 17:38
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:Really though, would a regular citizen of the community want to put an officer in jail, and then potentially have an entire police dept out for blood? I wouldn't want to live in fear of my life everyday for putting a cop in prison. It's easier to just say not guilty and move on with my life. Makes you think.
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Apr 20, 2014 18:13
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i'd like to think a stiff boot to the face would discourage a dog from continuing to attack too, and it's preferable to shooting one.
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Apr 20, 2014 18:17
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Branis posted:i'd like to think a stiff boot to the face would discourage a dog from continuing to attack too, and it's preferable to shooting one.
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Apr 20, 2014 18:32
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Branis posted:i'd like to think a stiff boot to the face would discourage the common man from attempting to rise up, and it's preferable to shooting one.
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Apr 20, 2014 18:39
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I've been in a tear gas chamber with K9 dogs. They sneeze once and that's it, I don't think it'd be too different between gas and oc, besides the dog being blind. Blinding an aggressive dog seems like it would cause a few problems.
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Apr 20, 2014 19:21
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They're just unpredictable. I've got scars on my face and scalp from a pitt bull that kept on attacking me after being shot. That dog was sprayed with no effect and finally did run off after a taser was used. I have however seen spray work really well on other dogs, and some "aggressive" dogs calm completely down if you (the stranger in their yard) just offer them a treat. I seriously used to keep a bag of dog treats in my car when I worked on patrol, that poo poo did wonders for me.
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Apr 20, 2014 21:07
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Some dogs don't stop. I guarantee kicking a police dog isn't going to make it stop attacking you when it wants to.
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Apr 20, 2014 21:07
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deratomicdog posted:Some dogs don't stop. I guarantee kicking a police dog isn't going to make it stop attacking you when it wants to. Prove it
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Apr 20, 2014 21:40
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How often do any of you give leniency due to your professional courtesy? Have you ever refused to officially cite/arrest an officer who claimed they shouldn't get in trouble due to it?(or, have any of you personally ever arrested any officer?) Have any of you had a nice pleasant conversation where a non-police member would have gotten in deep trouble? Ive known 2 officers, in Richmond and Honolulu, who mentioned being able to drive short distances after drinking without any worry of arrest; I'm curious how your departments/counties handle professional courtesy and messy situations which can arise from it. e: im super sorry if my questions sound loaded or confrontational. Id never dig down and ask police my honest questions in person so im happy you all are here online, thanks
treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 23:49
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I've never written another officer a citation for a minor traffic offense, but I let most people skate on minor traffic offenses because I hate traffic court. However, I'd never let an officer skate away on a criminal offense especially not a DUI. A DUI is risking my life, their life, and the lives of everyone else on the road. gently caress that, I've seen too many dead bodies on the side of the road as a result of drunk drivers and I expect fellow cops to know better and set an example. Whip Slagcheek fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 23:54
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I'm reading this debate on Volokh: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/04/20/more-on-speed-limits-and-duties-to-obey-the-law/ Do you guys as policemen feel that loose enforcement of minor laws such as speeding erode civic respect for other laws? Alternately worded, do you think if traffic laws were somehow enforced firmly and to the letter (assume you weren't the poor bastard who had to do this) do you think violation rate of other, more serious laws would change?
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Apr 21, 2014 00:15
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tentative8e8op posted:How often do any of you give leniency due to your professional courtesy? Have you ever refused to officially cite/arrest an officer who claimed they shouldn't get in trouble due to it?(or, have any of you personally ever arrested any officer?) Have any of you had a nice pleasant conversation where a non-police member would have gotten in deep trouble? I don't write traffic citations at all but gently caress people who drink and drive, especially cops.
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Apr 21, 2014 00:23
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tentative8e8op posted:How often do any of you give leniency due to your professional courtesy? Have you ever refused to officially cite/arrest an officer who claimed they shouldn't get in trouble due to it?(or, have any of you personally ever arrested any officer?) Have any of you had a nice pleasant conversation where a non-police member would have gotten in deep trouble? I personally would never ask for or expect a break, and I'd go as far as to avoid bringing up my job during a traffic stop if possible. I really hate the idea of professional courtesy and it bugs me that people I work with expect it for minor traffic stuff. For any kind of criminal or more serious traffic offence, gently caress professional courtesy. Especially DUI. It's dangerous as hell and cops should know better than anyone else that its stupid and dangerous. Maybe this comes from my time with the CBSA but we arrested and performed enforcement on cops, firefighters, etc without remorse. The whole point of the law is to be fair and equal - if I'm exercising discretion I'm exercising it equally.
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Apr 21, 2014 00:35
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Snowdens Secret posted:I'm reading this debate on Volokh: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/04/20/more-on-speed-limits-and-duties-to-obey-the-law/ Isn't this basically the broken window theory? Honestly it would probably be impossible to enforce traffic laws more harshly than they are now without using robots and traffic cameras. Theres just too much road and not enough cops, and there would never be enough cops.
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Apr 21, 2014 00:49
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tentative8e8op posted:How often do any of you give leniency due to your professional courtesy? Have you ever refused to officially cite/arrest an officer who claimed they shouldn't get in trouble due to it?(or, have any of you personally ever arrested any officer?) Have any of you had a nice pleasant conversation where a non-police member would have gotten in deep trouble? That's some BS right there, but sadly not that surprising  I arrested a cop from a neighboring jurisdiction years ago for writing a bunch (like $10,000 worth) of bad checks. Several businesses had called to complain about this woman and it actually went to warrant from our DA's office because she started skipping court dates. I let a minor traffic offense slip by but I'd do the same for fire, military, medical professionals, teachers & really anyone who's polite or has an interesting excuse. I told a guy once that he'd get a warning if he could give me an excuse I hadn't heard before. He paused for a minute & said "officer I'm running late. I was supposed to meet your mom at a motel 20 minutes ago." It was shocking and hilarious.
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Apr 21, 2014 01:21
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I'd asked this before, sort of, but what's an example of really laugh-worthy/ -worthy extenuating circumstances, where you had pulled someone over in a traffic stop and went '...oh man your life is horrible already and you're clearly going home/not drunk, just go, jesus'? Doesn't have to be a traffic stop, that just tends to yield the most ridiculous meltdowns that aren't outright lethal.
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Apr 21, 2014 03:28
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Would you guys have an issue with a dude who was constantly scratching/touching his junk in a public place due to jock itch???
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Apr 21, 2014 04:06
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What happened?
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Apr 21, 2014 04:54
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How big of a grounding in law are newly hired police officers expected to have? Asking since one of our regular security guards just got hired as an officer, and he's dumb as bricks. Nice guy though.
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Apr 21, 2014 05:37
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Deki posted:How big of a grounding in law are newly hired police officers expected to have? It was a lot to take in at the academy, way too much to absorb and put into action at once. The truth is that we end up knowing some laws very well because we end up seeing a lot of the same things, or we specialize in certain areas because of interest or assignment, and the rest we forget about or have to look up on the spot in the law book we carry in our bag. You don't always have to know the exact appropriate charge at the scene, it can be amended or added in court later on. Every time I'm thumbing through the law book or vehicle code I find something new and obscure and I try to remember it in case I ever need it. There's almost always an underlying "generic" law that is violated before needing to know the specific charge, for example disorderly conduct, so you can detain someone on the generic charge while you figure out what the specific one is going to be. The Shep fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 06:07
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:45 |
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I didn't mean specific laws so much. What I guess I meant to say was, what level of knowledge of the justice system does a department expect before even beginning training? Is it something they don't even bother worrying about, or do they expect you to know the basics before even starting? Because most of the people I've met who want to be officers (Mostly security guards really), seem to know very little about how the justice system works, which was a bit troubling for me. I did forget that officers had to go through academy though.
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Apr 21, 2014 06:44
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